Target Down 5 Billion Since Embracing Trans Bathroom Policy

[oneforthebus]

You keep doing this and I'm ashamed of you OFTB. I don't even think you realize you are doing it. I can tell you 100 times I don't care about TGs in the least. So can Supe. So can anyone else. I can tell you have a great friend who is gay, and a gay uncle. This **** doesn't bother or move me in the least.

But like a true Liberal, you continue to attack anyone who disagrees with your position as a bigot. When did you backslide?

Do you see you doing this? Do you recognize it?

For the 93rd time...I have no problems with TGs and I'm least worried about them than any segment of the US population to be honest, save for maybe the Amish.



This is you projecting. Your past on people's present. The future is now, and it is changing. You didn't have to shower in HS with other males. You haven't had to take a **** in a stall when a man was in a stall next to you. You haven't had to change into your swimsuit in a public pool locker room right next to a man and right after having given birth and feeling self conscious about your body. You haven't had to shower in the LA Fitness gym next to a man 20 years your younger.

Have you had to do ANY of these things ever OFTB? Have you?

Your prom example is bullshit compared to those posed - which are real now. Have you had to do any of the things I questioned? Because women today now have to accept these situations as being normal in the future.

I think it's crazy hysterical to think women will have to do these things now or in the future...because the vast majority of men don't want to be there either. Where are you getting this idea that there will now be some crazy influx of men who want nothing more than to force women (and themselves) into these uncomfortable positions? Please calm yourself down.

Once again...I HAVE NEVER SHOWERED IN FRONT OF ANYONE. MAN OR WOMAN. THERE ARE STALLS. THERE ARE CURTAINS. IF SOMEONE WAS WATCHING ME BE THEY MALE OR FEMALE I WOULD SURELY NOTICE. I didn't shower in high school with males, I didn't shower in high school with females.I didn't take a **** next to males, if I could in any way avoid it I didn't take a **** next to females either. I fail to see the big difference between the two. I didn't change my swimsuit in front of anyone, ever. Honestly I found a stall or a curtain or changed at home. Women aren't generally prancing around naked in these places as much as you'd like to think they are.

Meanwhile there are places all over the world where people do prance around naked or mostly naked around each other without it turning into some giant rapefest. How is that possible? How do men resist? Because the reality is most people, even shockingly most men, are good people and are not interested in doing the things you seem so terrorized about.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I would research where my girls were going to college, find out what the policies were there. and choose housing that my daughter and I felt comfortable with.

Wait, what??? LOL So you wouldn't feel comfortable with your daughter sharing a room with a male? You just admitted you'd try to find a way to ensure she had a female roomie, but **** the luck of those girls that got stuck with the dude?

That's priceless. Priceless.

On every overnight field trip my children have been on they choose their own roommates. No one is ever forced to room with anyone else, male or female.

I've tried to educate you. You need to read. The mandates now say that on overnight field trips, your daughter may be forced to sleep with males.

The president's adopted hometown of Chicago is more insistent: “In no case should a transgender student be denied the right to participate in an overnight field trip because of the student’s transgender status.”

So, any individual who says he is a member of the opposite sex must be allowed to spend the night in the same room as members of the opposite biological sex for his “social integration” and “comfort.”​

and

This isn't mere speculation. Three years ago, the Obama administration sided with a transgender female after California's Arcadia Unified School District refused to let her “bunk with [her] buddies” on a seventh grade overnight field trip.

The Obama administration forced a settlement on the school district, which agreed to the teenager's requests for hotel rooms during “overnight events and extracurricular activities on and off campus, consistent with [her] gender identity.”

Obama is now taking this nationwide.​

I have never openly showered with anyone but my husband, my daughters don't even take showers in school but if they wanted to they are individual stalls, they are not communal showers. It's not prison.

You don't get out much. And you are trying to evade the question. There are times and places where your daughter will have to be nude, shower, and do her business around other females and potentially males.

Especially when she shares that dorm with them and those communal showers and bathrooms.

I can vividly remember our HS showers and lockers. I was an athlete. I traveled. We used the female locker rooms when away. They didn't have individual shower stalls. There was a giant room with 8 shower heads on the wall. We all had to crowd in after a game and shower quickly together. Swinging sausage fest. Much of the world still operates this way.

But it's different now. Now it's gonna be 7 naked 16 year old girls in puberty showering with a female with a penis.

Progression. A new, enlightened world.

 

[oneforthebus]

Wait, what??? LOL So you wouldn't feel comfortable with your daughter sharing a room with a male? You just admitted you'd try to find a way to ensure she had a female roomie, but **** the luck of those girls that got stuck with the dude?

That's priceless. Priceless.




I've tried to educate you. You need to read. The mandates now say that on overnight field trips, your daughter may be forced to sleep with males.

The president's adopted hometown of Chicago is more insistent: “In no case should a transgender student be denied the right to participate in an overnight field trip because of the student’s transgender status.”

So, any individual who says he is a member of the opposite sex must be allowed to spend the night in the same room as members of the opposite biological sex for his “social integration” and “comfort.”​

and

This isn't mere speculation. Three years ago, the Obama administration sided with a transgender female after California's Arcadia Unified School District refused to let her “bunk with [her] buddies” on a seventh grade overnight field trip.

The Obama administration forced a settlement on the school district, which agreed to the teenager's requests for hotel rooms during “overnight events and extracurricular activities on and off campus, consistent with [her] gender identity.”

Obama is now taking this nationwide.​

You don't get out much. And you are trying to evade the question. There are times and places where your daughter will have to be nude, shower, and do her business around other females and potentially males.

Especially when she shares that dorm with them and those communal showers and bathrooms.

I can vividly remember our HS showers and lockers. I was an athlete. I traveled. We used the female locker rooms when away. They didn't have individual shower stalls. There was a giant room with 8 shower heads on the wall. We all had to crowd in after a game and shower quickly together. Swinging sausage fest. Much of the world still operates this way.

But it's different now. Now it's gonna be 7 naked 16 year old girls in puberty showering with a female with a penis.

Progression. A new, enlightened world.

In college I lived next door to a lesbian. She had a girlfriend who was in her 30s. She used to visit and stay in the room with her girlfriend's 18 year old roommates and shower in our communal bathroom.

You are apparently fine with this because she didn't have a dick but you don't want a 14 year old boy who lives entirely as a girl sleeping in the same hotel room with other girls.

Can you explain how that makes sense at all?

 

[oneforthebus]

Wait, what??? LOL So you wouldn't feel comfortable with your daughter sharing a room with a male? You just admitted you'd try to find a way to ensure she had a female roomie, but **** the luck of those girls that got stuck with the dude?

Way to put words in my mouth. I said I would choose a housing situation that my daughter and I felt comfortable with. My daughter after all would be an adult at that point and entitled to her own feelings on the situation.

I actually had a male roommate in my early twenties and really it was no big deal.

 

[oneforthebus]

I can vividly remember our HS showers and lockers. I was an athlete. I traveled. We used the female locker rooms when away. They didn't have individual shower stalls. There was a giant room with 8 shower heads on the wall. We all had to crowd in after a game and shower quickly together. Swinging sausage fest. Much of the world still operates this way

.

The world does not operate that way anymore. Go visit some college campuses, I guarantee you can probably go a week there without ever having to shower or **** in view of anyone else.

 

[oneforthebus]

You keep doing this and I'm ashamed of you OFTB. I don't even think you realize you are doing it. I can tell you 100 times I don't care about TGs in the least. So can Supe. So can anyone else. I can tell you have a great friend who is gay, and a gay uncle. This **** doesn't bother or move me in the least.

But like a true Liberal, you continue to attack anyone who disagrees with your position as a bigot. When did you backslide?

Do you see you doing this? Do you recognize it?

Anyone who has been around here a long time knows that I call it as I see it. I'm never one to take the "party line" on anything. I see bigotry in these discussions because I see a complete overreaction to something that up til now has been a non-problem. Unfortunately our president as usual has stepped in, exacerbated things and stoked up a bunch of divisiveness for political purposes, which once again some are falling for hook line and sinker. This is a non-issue that should quietly die.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I think it's crazy hysterical to think women will have to do these things now or in the future...because the vast majority of men don't want to be there either.

You really do believe now that Obama has mandated they can be there, that men won't accept these invitations?

Where are you getting this idea that there will now be some crazy influx of men who want nothing more than to force women (and themselves) into these uncomfortable positions?

Hmmm, because there are and always have been sexual predators. You really believe they aren't looking at these open doors and salivating? The stories posted show there are those that are, and are taking advantage of it.

Once again...I HAVE NEVER SHOWERED IN FRONT OF ANYONE. MAN OR WOMAN. THERE ARE STALLS. THERE ARE CURTAINS. IF SOMEONE WAS WATCHING ME BE THEY MALE OR FEMALE I WOULD SURELY NOTICE. I didn't shower in high school with males, I didn't shower in high school with females.

You didn't grow up with these new mandates did you? Your HS didn't have showers like this? Mine did. All of the high schools I visited as an athlete had showers like this. Male and female showers.

I didn't take a **** next to males, if I could in any way avoid it I didn't take a **** next to females either. I fail to see the big difference between the two.

And I would ask you to consider that this is YOUR view. Do you discount the fact that there are a large population of women who WILL have a problem with this, or do? Congratulations to you that you don't care if you **** next to a man. My wife cares. My sister cares. Her daughters are mortified at this thought.

I didn't change my swimsuit in front of anyone, ever. Honestly I found a stall or a curtain or changed at home. Women aren't generally prancing around naked in these places as much as you'd like to think they are.

I don't think they are. I know many of them are. Were you ever an athlete? There are plenty of instances where a shower (like pictured above) is the only option. How do you think the man in Washington was able to disrobe - TWICE - in front of those young female swimmers? Wait, they all must have had individual stalls...not. Or that story was a fabrication?

Because the reality is most people, even shockingly most men, are good people and are not interested in doing the things you seem so terrorized about.

You are correct. The vast majority don't behave this way. The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful. The vast majority of males don't rape. The vast majority of gun owners don't go on shooting sprees.

But we have terrorism that kills millions. We have rapists that traumatize countless women. We have some gun owners that kill.

If it saves one life....

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

In college I lived next door to a lesbian. She had a girlfriend who was in her 30s. She used to visit and stay in the room with her girlfriend's 18 year old roommates and shower in our communal bathroom.

You are apparently fine with this because she didn't have a dick but you don't want a 14 year old boy who lives entirely as a girl sleeping in the same hotel room with other girls.

Can you explain how that makes sense at all?

You admitted you'd work ways to figure out college programs to ensure your daughter would not share a room with a man. You evaded that. Why? So you admitted you would work out ways to ensure your beloved daughter would not be shacked up for a year with a man. Noted.

You evaded the fact that the mandates now stipulate girls must share rooms with males on an overnight field trip if they identify as female. Why?

Why are you evading the questions I asked?

Then you assume that I am fine with the situation you list above with a 30 year old lesbian showering with 18 year old girls? Why do you assume I'm fine with it?

 

[oneforthebus]

You are correct. The vast majority don't behave this way. The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful. The vast majority of males don't rape. The vast majority of gun owners don't go on shooting sprees.

But we have terrorism that kills millions. We have rapists that traumatize countless women. We have some gun owners that kill.

If it saves one life....

Do you really want to go there Tim? Are we passing laws now on the basis that they may save one life? My parents both died of cirrhosis, should we make alcohol illegal? A 4 year old just shot his 5 year old friend with his father's gun and killed him...should we ban guns? After all it would probably save one life. Should we make riding bikes on roads illegal? Cause people die that way ya know, if we can save one life...hey tons of people die from smoking, let's ban cigarettes. You good with that? It won't save one life, it would save hundreds of thousands. You accuse me of making typical liberal arguments yet you are making the ULTIMATE liberal argument. The government must intervene because it could save one life...

I would rather live in country where the government doesn't micromanage every aspect of our lives right down to where I take a piss, thanks...

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Way to put words in my mouth. I said I would choose a housing situation that my daughter and I felt comfortable with. My daughter after all would be an adult at that point and entitled to her own feelings on the situation.

I actually had a male roommate in my early twenties and really it was no big deal.

I had a female room mate in college. In an apartment. It was by choice. She had her room. We had ours. That's not the same situation.

The situation, which you are trying to compare to the situation I've listed, is not the same. When you show up at college as a Freshman and you are stuck in a dorm with a new room mate is vastly different than being a Junior in college where a bunch of people agree to share an apartment with each person getting his/her own room.

Imagine taking your daughter to college and moving into her freshman dorm room - a cozy 15' x 15' room (if you're lucky) with two beds jammed in the room to find that your daughter's room mate is a male.

That's vastly different than the situation you describe where you "willingly" chose your room mate. Did you and your male room mate have two beds in the same room?

 

[oneforthebus]

You admitted you'd work ways to figure out college programs to ensure your daughter would not share a room with a man.

Nope. I said I would choose a housing option that my daughter and I were comfortable with. If we were comfortable with her sharing a room with a transgendered person (and I think we would be) we'd go with that. The point is we'd be able to choose our situation, it wouldn't be forced on us. We decide where she goes to college...we decide where she will live when she gets there...again, it's not prison.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

.

The world does not operate that way anymore. Go visit some college campuses, I guarantee you can probably go a week there without ever having to shower or **** in view of anyone else.

LOL, nope, the world doesn't operate this way any more.

http://www.carmelgreenteen.org/chs-green-shower-power.html

Carmel High School students led the way in 2012 by winning both the Girls and Boys Indiana State Swimming Championships and by installing 75 low-flow shower heads in the high school to reduce water waste. The CHS Green Shower Power club received a Carmel Green Teen micro-grant for $750 to help fund new push-on auto-off buttons and low-flow shower heads in the school and community locker rooms. This ambitious group of students also chose to reach out to the community to educate other students and their families about the benefits of low-flow shower heads and other water-conserving measures. The new low-flow shower heads and push buttons will be utilized by 140 Carmel High School Swim Team athletes, 440 Carmel Swim Club members, and numerous student and community recreational swimmers.

The CHS swimmers/locker room showers:

The world just doesn't operate that way anymore.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

it wouldn't be forced on us. We decide where she goes to college...we decide where she will live when she gets there...again, it's not prison.

You're incorrect. You do not have a choice. Because every school must operate this way now.

Allow me to repost this article:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/...ngerous-and-underreported-part-of-obamas-tran

Colleges must let men who say they are transgender be roommates with one or more women; and

School officials cannot even tell those young women or their parents in advance that their new roommate is a man, without risking a federal lawsuit.

and...

As demonstrated, the Obama administration's guidance makes gender dependent on the student's assertion and nothing else; it requires students to be housed with members of the sex with which they identify. The letter states that the college cannot tell other students about a transgender student's biology. “Nonconsensual disclosure of...a student’s birth name or sex assigned at birth, could be harmful to or invade the privacy of transgender students,” and Obama warns it could be against the law in the letter.

Some people would argue that not telling a gifted 16-year-old college freshman that her new roommate is a bearded 51-year-old with male pattern baldness and a taste for young ladies violates her privacy.

But according to the booklet, even the potential roommate cannot ask about a transgender person's biology, because “asking personal questions about a person’s body” is a form of harassment.

Thus, under the Obama administration's policies, a man can declare himself a female and be assigned as the year-long roommate of a nubile, possibly underage, co-ed. If the college tells the young lady her roommate is a biological male without his express consent, it could be sued.

It is unilateral. It is being forced on you. You cannot ask in advance what the gender of your daughter's room mate will be. They can't tell you. It's law. You may decide in advance that she will live, say for instance in a dorm. You will not have a say (unless she pre-picks a roomie she knows) who her room mate will be. And you can't ask what gender that person is if you go the anonymous route.

The only control you will have is to go with off campus housing. If you go on campus housing and they assign room mates, you're **** out of luck. Sorry to ruin your assumptions.

 

[oneforthebus]

LOL, nope, the world doesn't operate this way any more.

http://www.carmelgreenteen.org/chs-green-shower-power.html



The CHS swimmers/locker room showers:

The world just doesn't operate that way anymore.

I don't think I've ever denied that communal showers exist, however I can promise you that no one will ever force you to avail yourself of one.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Anyone who has been around here a long time knows that I call it as I see it. I'm never one to take the "party line" on anything. I see bigotry in these discussions because I see a complete overreaction to something that up til now has been a non-problem. Unfortunately our president as usual has stepped in, exacerbated things and stoked up a bunch of divisiveness for political purposes, which once again some are falling for hook line and sinker. This is a non-issue that should quietly die.

An over reaction or a reaction to an issue doesn't equal bigotry. You are applying bigotry to me and others who oppose these rules. I have no issues with my gay uncles or friends.

Because I oppose opening up women's bathrooms and locker rooms and showers to ANY man, I and others are labeled TG bigots, by you among others.

Do you not realize it is possible to understand that transgender people are people and need to have their rights protected while also protecting the rights of others and not be a bigot?

It's not bigotry to protect women's rights. At least in the world in which I live.

 

[oneforthebus]

You're incorrect. You do not have a choice. Because every school must operate this way now.

Allow me to repost this article:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/...ngerous-and-underreported-part-of-obamas-tran



and...



It is unilateral. It is being forced on you. You cannot ask in advance what the gender of your daughter's room mate will be. They can't tell you. It's law. You may decide in advance that she will live, say for instance in a dorm. You will not have a say (unless she pre-picks a roomie she knows) who her room mate will be. And you can't ask what gender that person is if you go the anonymous route.

The only control you will have is to go with off campus housing. If you go on campus housing and they assign room mates, you're **** out of luck. Sorry to ruin your assumptions.

As I said, if this was something that was important to me I would review the campus policy and decide if this was the right college for my child, and if the housing option was the right housing option. There is off campus housing, there are colleges with all different sorts of policies, it's a free market...if I'm fine with my kid sharing a room with a transgendered person, why should your discomfort with it disallow us from doing that? You can avail yourself of other options. Obviously if enough people are unhappy with the campus housing policy, attendance rates will suffer and the policy will be changed, If most people are fine with it, no problem.You don't have some right to make your discomfort my problem.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I would rather live in country where the government doesn't micromanage every aspect of our lives right down to where I take a piss, thanks...

Which is exactly what you're supporting. The government micro managing where people can go to the bathroom, where they can shower, who they can room with, who they can sleep with. You are just fine with Obama saying just this. Making this a micro-management issue.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I don't think I've ever denied that communal showers exist, however I can promise you that no one will ever force you to avail yourself of one.

Bingo. When that man walks into this shower in the Washington swim team locker room and disrobes in front of those girls, they are not forced to use these showers. They must, dripping wet, wrap themselves in towels and scurry from their space, get into their parents cars shivering wet, and go home to shower in privacy, because the man who's not a transgender was there first. Those girls are not forced to get naked at 12 years old in front of that 40 year old man. They have other, much less convenient and less comfortable options.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

As I said, if this was something that was important to me I would review the campus policy and decide if this was the right college for my child, and if the housing option was the right housing option. There is off campus housing, there are colleges with all different sorts of policies, it's a free market...if I'm fine with my kid sharing a room with a transgendered person, why should your discomfort with it disallow us from doing that? You can avail yourself of other options. Obviously if enough people are unhappy with the campus housing policy, attendance rates will suffer and the policy will be changed, If most people are fine with it, no problem.You don't have some right to make your discomfort my problem.

OFTB, LOL...EVERY college is subject to these federal mandates. Where are you going to shop, Canada? Wait, they've passed these laws too.

Mexico is an option.

 

[oneforthebus]

Which is exactly what you're supporting. The government micro managing where people can go to the bathroom, where they can shower, who they can room with, who they can sleep with. You are just fine with Obama saying just this. Making this a micro-management issue.

I have said repeatedly I oppose Obama getting involved in this. Again you just ignore anything that doesn't fit your argument. We don't need him mandating anything, we don't need states banning anything. Leave people alone, deal with problems as they arise.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I have said repeatedly I oppose Obama getting involved in this. Again you just ignore anything that doesn't fit your argument. We don't need him mandating anything, we don't need states banning anything. Leave people alone, deal with problems as they arise.

Wait...you oppose Obama getting involved in this. But you support it. When we post articles, when we post the pitfalls that are occurring due to his mandates, due to these rules...you support his position unequivocally. You argue incessantly that these mandates don't matter, they will have no effect, 'we have stalls,' 'women will still scream,' it won't matter, 'i don't care who I **** next to'.

So you throw support around page after page saying that what he is doing isn't going to matter in the least, but at the same time you don't support his being involved and he should leave it alone - which is exactly what we want.

What??

LOL

 

[oneforthebus]

OFTB, LOL...EVERY college is subject to these federal mandates. Where are you going to shop, Canada? Wait, they've passed these laws too.

Mexico is an option.

Again, you just continually ignore facts that don't fit your argument.

There is a long list of colleges with religious exemptions to Title IX. Any college that doesn't receive federal funding is completely exempt from this as well.

Off campus housing is completely exempt from this.

Every college has a roommate matching process and if someone is unhappy with who they've been assigned to they can switch. Granted, I guess there's some possibility you could get assigned to a transgendered person freshman year without your knowledge but I guarantee if your kid had a huge problem with this they could get switched out.

Just like your kid could end up assigned to a homosexual roommate. A roommate with horrible body odor. An alcoholic or drug addict roommate. A Satanic roommate who holds Wiccan rituals in their room.

Nobody's guaranteed a perfect roommate. Somehow we all dealt with it and figured it out.

But somehow the possibility of having a transgendered roommate is so horrific, so awful, so unimaginably unendurable that we need laws to protect us from it. And that's not because you are skeeved out by transgendered people? Even a little? You're ok with your daughter possibly being assigned a drug addict ***** of a roommate, just as long as she doesn't secretly have a penis?

 

[oneforthebus]

Wait...you oppose Obama getting involved in this. But you support it. When we post articles, when we post the pitfalls that are occurring due to his mandates, due to these rules...you support his position unequivocally. You argue incessantly that these mandates don't matter, they will have no effect, 'we have stalls,' 'women will still scream,' it won't matter, 'i don't care who I **** next to'.

So you throw support around page after page saying that what he is doing isn't going to matter in the least, but at the same time you don't support his being involved and he should leave it alone - which is exactly what we want.

What??

LOL

I believe in leaving people alone who are not doing any harm. What is so difficult for you to understand about that?

And you have posted absolutely nothing that is "occurring due to his mandates". That is pure speculation with not a shred of evidence.

 

[Troglodyte]

What I wouldn't pay to have a meme of a cross dressing Rodney King with the caption "Can't we all just get along?"

 

[CharlesDavenport]

What bathroom do these trans-species things use?

It’s called “puppy play,” and yes, it’s a serious thing. Adult men slip into leather dog suits and pretend to be puppies. As in baby pet dogs. Don’t worry, I’m cringing too.

All of them are cis, straight males. Just kidding. They’re mostly gay. Remember when we said normalizing gay marriage was a slippery slope? I rescind that statement. It opened up the floodgates for all things gag-worthy (see NOT NORMAL: ‘Transgender’ Man Claims He’s a 6-Year-Old Girl. Abandons Family).

Welcome to 2016, where judging a grown man who thinks he’s anything other than a grown man is seen as “hateful.”

from - http://louderwithcrowder.com/trans-species-meet-the-grown-men-who-identify-as-dogs/#.V0gt0VeWVJE