Things Mike Tomlin can do to fix the Steelers next season ( besides resign 🤣 )

[Steeltime]

I don't think it is just Tomlin. The league has shifted away from the Casey Hampton type. Unless you find a unicorn who is huge and can move, I don't see us drafting a guy who can only ever play 2 downs.

But when playing the Eagles, the Ravens and the Browns, having that player means a lot. Also, since they are undervalued, teams can get a good NT later in the draft, as I listed in this thread.

 

[Litos]

I do not think Tomlin will wake up. If something isn't working we just keep doing it anyways. Just look at our last 2 games. Against the Bengals we ran every single first down and all but once on 2nd down until we were desperate at the end of the game. We also left Trice on Chase for most of the game. Against the Ravens we kept tackling Henry without the ball and letting Lamar run down the field. We also always seen to have that one play every year that results in 0 yardage but we keep running out. Last year it was the jet sweep and this year it is the toss back to najee
Using 2 DL is just plain stupid. 1. we can't generate pass rush. 2. We get blown off the line. 3. Even with extra guys in the secondary the other team has guys wide open.
With Tomlin I don't see much changing defensively unfortunately so I have little hope for change there
One change that I think might make a difference is a new oline coach. I think Tomlin would keep his fingers off that one. Our backs and QBs would look much better with a decent line.
On offense i think the plays are there we just do not use them. I don't know if that is on Tomlin or Smith. With a better oline and playcalling I think the offense could be ok as is.
Special teams had a good year I wouldn't change much there. The short kickoffs were a mixed bag. We stopped guys inside the 20 but also got burnt a few times. I'm fine with being aggressive there but if they decide to just blast it through the end zone that is fine too

I was screaming at russell for getting sacked or throwing it away until replay showed there was no one open. No slants, no crossing patterns, mo levels, just sticks, curls and verts.

****** play calling is what I saw

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

But when playing the Eagles, the Ravens and the Browns, having that player means a lot. Also, since they are undervalued, teams can get a good NT later in the draft, as I listed in this thread.

Great if you are willing to give up the roster spot to a limited snap count player. That is why teams don't do it often. I am not against it personally It just seems to be the prevailing "wisdom" in the league. I would like to see the league and players agree to expand rosters and active gameday rosters. Let more players have a chance to rotate and improve the product and the safety.

 

[NoKap#7]

allow me to repeat - Rooney Rule. It's named for the Rooneys. The family who owns the Steelers. They hired Mike to coach their team. This was done after interviewing Rivera (also a "minority" and Whisenhunt). If they so loved the stability that you massage yourself to, then Whisenhunt would have been the hire since he was a Cowher disciple. Tomlin was a defensive coordinator for the Minnesota Vikings when he was hired - and the Vikings were dead last against the pass when he was hired.

dead. last. vs. the. pass.
yet hired.

again - his defense was the absolute ******* worst in the league against the pass. nevermind that the man was a secondary coach prior to being the DC. Shouldnt that experience - as a secondary coach - lead you to believe that his pass defense would NOT be dead ******* last in the league?

dead. *******. last.

yet he was hired.

remind me - how have we fared vs the pass recently?
while you're doing that, tell me what Mike has done recently.

i've not been one to jump on the fire tomlin bandwagon that comes around every year. use the search feature to validate that claim. i've only asked - who would you replace him with? i dont want to be like the Browns or Bungles. Or the Cowboys. or any team that hires and fires coaches every year, two or three. Tomlin had his opportunity and due to the system in place and the bad optics, as well as the players who adore playing for him, he was allowed to continue pushing SS TitanicSteelers to a murky grave.

1) This is first rate selective bias if I ever saw any. How easy was it to focus on a secondary that was dead last and leave out the fact that his defense was #1 against the rush and the #8 defense overall. The issue was the pass yards allowed. The secondary actually allowed the fourth least Td passes and was fourth in interceptions that year. So in reality the issue was neither Tomlin nor his defense so this is why this was easily overlooked in the hiring process

2) what would make Tomlin any less of a candidate then Tomlin or Whisenhunt. Is it much more fairer to say he nailed it in the interview process then anything else?? If its one thing everyone can agree on, whether you like Tomlin or jot, it's how great an orator he is. This translates in the interview process whether you agree with it or not. Therefore fact that you can't dent and neither can anyone else. The decision they made was the right one.

The Rooney Rule was a byproduct of the hire, but it wasn't the reason they hired him. That's taking too much from who the Rooneys are and not respecting their hiring process and who Tomlin is and has been as a coach, motivator, influencer, etc.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Great if you are willing to give up the roster spot to a limited snap count player. That is why teams don't do it often. I am not against it personally It just seems to be the prevailing "wisdom" in the league. I would like to see the league and players agree to expand rosters and active gameday rosters. Let more players have a chance to rotate and improve the product and the safety.

64 roster
52 game day



Salute the nation

 

[diver]

The team not having a true nose does not mean they would not have liked one. It just means one wasn't available.

Perhaps. But the defense they run is/has been dependent on a dominant nose. It makes the defense work. So if you can't get that guy, or they aren't out there, wouldn't it behoove you to perhaps go to more 4-3 looks? Get a little more beef in the middle somehow?

 

[diver]

Great if you are willing to give up the roster spot to a limited snap count player. That is why teams don't do it often. I am not against it personally It just seems to be the prevailing "wisdom" in the league. I would like to see the league and players agree to expand rosters and active gameday rosters. Let more players have a chance to rotate and improve the product and the safety.

Not sure a nose would be a limited snap player these days. Again, 4 of the 5 teams that won this weekend had a RB go over 100. I wonder if you are starting to see a shift to more running, or at least more balance between running and throwing.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

64 roster
52 game day



Salute the nation

I could live with that but why do we need to delineate active and gameday. If you are on the roster and healthy you should be eligible to play. It makes no sense to player safety to limit it that way.

 

[NoKap#7]

Javon Hargrave became a dominant player after leaving. He passed on potential nose tackles including Grady Jarret multiple times (drafted 2015 in the 5th round), Jarren Reed in 2016 (the Artie Burns/Sean Davis draft), Dexter Lawrence in 2019 (taking 220 lb. Devin Bush instead), undrafted Michael Pierce, and Harrison Phillips (2018 draft where Steelers passed on him three times to take Terrell Edmunds, James Washington, and Chukwuma Okorafor).

The 2018 draft is a huge part of the difference between the Steelers and the Ravens right now. As noted, the first three rounds for the Steelers resulted in Edmunds, Washington and Okorafor. Not. Good. The Ravens in the first three rounds drafted Hayden Hurst, Lamar Jackson, Orland Brown, Jr. and Mark Andrews. Yikes.

Tomlin openly admits he does not value the NT position. This is from 2016:



Mediocre Mike Does Not Value NT

Therefore, your entire premise - that Mediocre Mike simply did not have a chance to get a quality NT - is false and disproved by his negative comments about the position and the team's repeated failures to go after a quality NT in the draft, where in keeping with Mediocre Mike's philosophy, they instead select undersized players who turn out to be garbage.

Javon Hargrave was great here. The only reason JH isn't on the team today is because the Steelers couldnt match what other teams were willing to pay him so don't do that.

As for passing up eventual talents that turned out to be great like Dexter Lawrence I think we all agree that the Steelers were reaching in a lot of these drafts because there were glaring issues which they knew they needed to address such as that particular draft of finding someone or anyone that could cover a TE and yet be solid against the rush. Everybody remembers what Gronk did to Edmunds in the game the previous season before. I think he had like 3 Tds with Edmunds on him. Remember teams were trying to build teams that could take down the Patriots. That means your focus was not on a run game as much as it was Tom and Gronk.

When you address the fact that all these NTs or potential tackles were being passed up in the draft just know they weren't just being passed up by Tomlin, but they were being passed up by many coaches because it was becoming or had become a passing league.

My point being is that it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. Tomlin was in fact right when he said the league in general was moving away from drafting those type of players. Also don't try and pin all the drafting issues on Tomlins shoulders. What part do you think KC and Khan have played in all this??

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Not sure a nose would be a limited snap player these days. Again, 4 of the 5 teams that won this weekend had a RB go over 100. I wonder if you are starting to see a shift to more running, or at least more balance between running and throwing.

We are but with the rise of the running, not just mobile QB could lack of speed and mobility be a detriment? Not saying it is but the scheme has to evolve, and I am not sure the huge slow gap filler is the answer. It may be though.

 

[Drink IRON City]

I could live with that but why do we need to delineate active and gameday. If you are on the roster and healthy you should be eligible to play. It makes no sense to player safety to limit it that way.

I’m sure it’s a $$$money$$$ thing instilled by the NFL league. Tenure / veteran accumulation as to pension / stuff like that.

Don’t let yourself be fooled into thinking the NFL gives a **** about player safety, only the appearance of player safety.


Salute the nation

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Javon Hargrave was great here. The only reason JH isn't on the team today is because the Steelers couldnt match what other teams were willing to pay him so don't do that.

As for passing up eventual talents that turned out to be great like Dexter Lawrence I think we all agree that the Steelers were reaching in a lot of these drafts because there were glaring issues which they knew they needed to address such as that particular draft of finding someone or anyone that could cover a TE and yet be solid against the rush. Remember teams were trying to build teams that could take down the Patriots. That means your focus was not on a run game as much as it was Tom and Gronk.

When you address the fact that all these NTs or potential tackles were being passed up in the draft just know they weren't just being passed up by Tomlin, by they were being passed up by many coaches because it was becoming or had become a passing league.

My point being is that it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. Tomlin was in fact right when he said the league in general was moving away from drafting those type of players. Also don't try and pin all the drafting issues on Tomlins shoulders. What part do you think KC and Khan have played in all this??

You forgot the Tuitt piece of the puzzle.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

I’m sure it’s a $$$money$$$ thing instilled by the NFL league. Tenure / veteran accumulation as to pension / stuff like that.

Don’t let yourself be fooled into thinking the NFL gives a **** about player safety, only the appearance of player safety.


Salute the nation

That is exactly why I question the wisdom of the rule. it is stupid if you value safety and have the proper mechanisms in place to prevent a team using an injured player.

 

[NoKap#7]

You forgot the Tuitt piece of the puzzle.

Yeah, you can't account for stuff like that. You also made a good point about teams drafting more mobile QBs.

 

[diver]

We are but with the rise of the running, not just mobile QB could lack of speed and mobility be a detriment? Not saying it is but the scheme has to evolve, and I am not sure the huge slow gap filler is the answer. It may be though.

Well, let's take the Ravens. You have to slow down something. Maybe with the big nose you can slow down Henry right up the middle. Whatever the Steelers were doing was not stopping anything. If they could keep Henry in check without having to do crazy things, maybe they can deal with other things better.

 

[diver]

Javon Hargrave was great here. The only reason JH isn't on the team today is because the Steelers couldnt match what other teams were willing to pay him so don't do that.

As for passing up eventual talents that turned out to be great like Dexter Lawrence I think we all agree that the Steelers were reaching in a lot of these drafts because there were glaring issues which they knew they needed to address such as that particular draft of finding someone or anyone that could cover a TE and yet be solid against the rush. Everybody remembers what Gronk did to Edmunds in the game the previous season before. I think he had like 3 Tds with Edmunds on him. Remember teams were trying to build teams that could take down the Patriots. That means your focus was not on a run game as much as it was Tom and Gronk.

When you address the fact that all these NTs or potential tackles were being passed up in the draft just know they weren't just being passed up by Tomlin, but they were being passed up by many coaches because it was becoming or had become a passing league.

My point being is that it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. Tomlin was in fact right when he said the league in general was moving away from drafting those type of players. Also don't try and pin all the drafting issues on Tomlins shoulders. What part do you think KC and Khan have played in all this??

Hargrave became better after leaving because he was playing nose here, and he is more of a defensive tackle in a 4-3.

 

[NoKap#7]

Well, let's take the Ravens. You have to slow down something. Maybe with the big nose you can slow down Henry right up the middle. Whatever the Steelers were doing was not stopping anything. If they could keep Henry in check without having to do crazy things, maybe they can deal with other things better.

Henry was running to the left side more then any other side during that game. This was by design obviously. A nose tackle can't stop that.

 

[NoKap#7]

Hargrave became better after leaving because he was playing nose here, and he is more of a defensive tackle in a 4-3.

Well if he was better at a better position then don't knock Tomlin for trying him at NT and then say Tomlin doesn't like NTs. I'm not saying you did that but two other people here have. Also Hargrave shouldn't be a part of this conversation anyway because everybody knows the Steelers couldnt afford him so it's a moot point.

 

[TDX27]

Smith was a huge disappointment. We thought we were getting away from what Canaduh was doing but we got much more of the same. Common denominator = Tomlin. Tomlin had the training wheels on both.

 

[BLITZ]

Well if he was better at a better position then don't knock Tomlin for trying him at NT and then say Tomlin doesn't like NTs. I'm saying you did that but two other people here have. Also Hargrave shouldn't be a part of this conversation anyway because everybody knows the Steelers couldnt afford him so it's a moot point.

if Tomlin valued nose tackles there would be 1 on the active roster.

not looking it up but as remember they gave money to Tuitt instead of Hargrave. might be wrong

 

[Superman]

1) This is first rate selective bias if I ever saw any. How easy was it to focus on a secondary that was dead last and leave out the fact that his defense was #1 against the rush and the #8 defense overall. The issue was the pass yards allowed. The secondary actually allowed the fourth least Td passes and was fourth in interceptions that year. So in reality the issue was neither Tomlin nor his defense so this is why this was easily overlooked in the hiring process

2) what would make Tomlin any less of a candidate then Tomlin or Whisenhunt. Is it much more fairer to say he nailed it in the interview process then anything else?? If its one thing everyone can agree on, whether you like Tomlin or jot, it's how great an orator he is. This translates in the interview process whether you agree with it or not. Therefore fact that you can't dent and neither can anyone else. The decision they made was the right one.

The Rooney Rule was a byproduct of the hire, but it wasn't the reason they hired him. That's taking too much from who the Rooneys are and not respecting their hiring process and who Tomlin is and has been as a coach, motivator, influencer, etc.

so you admit that he talked his way into a job he had no business having.
thanks. glad you can be correct on one instance, which is bolded.

being **** against the pass while being great against the run and giving up 20 points per game while being outscored by 45 points over 16 games is a contributing reason to why they finished 6-10 and third in the abysmal NFC North. Third in a the division against Rex ******* Grossman. Again, another WHO QB.

So, lets look at the personnel on that defense. EJ Henderson. Darren Sharper. Pat Williams. Kevin Williams. Antoine Winfield. Fred Smoot. Dwight Smith. He had a talented defense. and got middling return.

HOLY **** does that sound wildly relevant to this discussion.

A great orator, who is a **** coach, given immense talent and ***** the bed.

need another lesson on Tomlin's ineptitude?

TJ Watt. Alex Highsmith. Cam Heyward. Patrick Queen. Minkah Fitzpatrick. Keeanu Benton. Preston Smith. DeShon Elliott. Donte Jackson.
like .... what? a virtual ******* gold mine on defense? and he again **** the bed? no ******* way. just impossible.

Unless you're Mike Tomlin and this is what. you. do.

 

[NoKap#7]

so you admit that he talked his way into a job he had no business having.
thanks. glad you can be correct on one instance, which is bolded.

being **** against the pass while being great against the run and giving up 20 points per game while being outscored by 45 points over 16 games is a contributing reason to why they finished 6-10 and third in the abysmal NFC North. Third in a the division against Rex ******* Grossman. Again, another WHO QB.

So, lets look at the personnel on that defense. EJ Henderson. Darren Sharper. Pat Williams. Kevin Williams. Antoine Winfield. Fred Smoot. Dwight Smith. He had a talented defense. and got middling return.

HOLY **** does that sound wildly relevant to this discussion.

A great orator, who is a **** coach, given immense talent and ***** the bed.

need another lesson on Tomlin's ineptitude?

TJ Watt. Alex Highsmith. Cam Heyward. Patrick Queen. Minkah Fitzpatrick. Keeanu Benton. Preston Smith. DeShon Elliott. Donte Jackson.
like .... what? a virtual ******* gold mine on defense? and he again **** the bed? no ******* way. just impossible.

Unless you're Mike Tomlin and this is what. you. do.

A job he had no business having? He's been to two SBs and has never had a losing season. Don't be ridiculous. I can't waste time going back and forth with people like you. I can understand being upset and angry with the results the last few years, but don't get irrational and stupid. Consider the rosters and the talent and realistically how far you think these teams could have gone. He's not this horrible terrible coach you make him out to be as biased and disrespectful as your spiel is. He's not a great coach either admittedly, but Stop with the foolishness.

 

[NoKap#7]

if Tomlin valued nose tackles there would be 1 on the active roster.

not looking it up but as remember they gave money to Tuitt instead of Hargrave. might be wrong

Lets assume youre right about who they gave the money to. They couldn't give it to them both right?

 

[steelhurt]

As I pointed out 1,000 other threads, Tomlins ego will never allow any of this to happen. Any coordinator he hires has to be a yes man and will not challenge him. As for the DT, Tomlin would never use him, he runs that stupid hybrid Tampa 2 wannabe, with primarily 2 DL-4LB-5DB's then wonders why we allow the best rushing team in the NFL to run for 299 yards on us. This Ravens games was just like the Browns playoff game. We face the best running team in the NFL and we primarily use only 2 DL so we get physically beat down trying to stop the run, and they constantly ran left, just like Cleveland.

Tomlin isn't an HOF coach, he just happened to take over a very good team at the exact right time, LeBeau was DC, and Tomlin was so young LeBeau was actually allowed to run his scheme, he had a great roster and his OC ran his scheme.

All this started to go south as soon as Tomlin starting taking more control and those early 2000 players started to leave, and there is zero arguing that.

Couldn’t have said it any better. Spot on!

 

[BLITZ]

A job he had no business having? He's been to two SBs and has never had a losing season. Don't be ridiculous. I can't waste time going back and forth with people Luke you. I cam.understamd being upset and angry, but don't get irrational and stupid.

Tomlin s a good NFL coach. He is good enough to not have a losing season. not good enough to get back to a super bowl.
He is to stuck in his ways. best example of that would be the Ravens game 300 yards rushing and how many times do you see 2 down linemen? one would think that after giving up so many yards in the 1st half you might adjust.