Tomlin Rated #6 Best NFL Coach

[SteelBuckeye]

You mean like ARII said Haley was Tomlin's hire? And how nobody knows for a fact that it's not true, yet some persist in saying he's lying; because that makes Tomlin look like he has no authority to hire his own coaches. Never could understand that one because the same folks will then say that the HC who isn't allowed to hire his own coaches has the final say in the draft. I mean if you were ARII and you didn't trust your coach to hire his own coordinators, why in the hell would you allow him to run your draft. It's a definite conundrum..

 

[ark steel]

I get sick of this myth. Rooney said in his book that he walked in while the coaches were discussing who to draft. He never said they were going to draft Andrews or anyone else. He just told them to draft Ben. He didn't want another Marino mistake on his watch. Here is exactly how it happened:



He never said who was for or against Ben. It's always been a myth that Cowher didn't want him. Nobody knows who did or didn't want him. But in order to throw some mud on Cowher and make Tomlin look better people will do almost anything.

Actually, I was using it as a counterpoint to aceroros' twistING and turning not to give Tomlin any credit for Ben having some success. I guess I'm still on the list of people who are allowed to speculate. Thanks for making sure I don't get out of place.

 

[stillwright]

I get sick of this myth. Rooney said in his book that he walked in while the coaches were discussing who to draft. He never said they were going to draft Andrews or anyone else. He just told them to draft Ben. He didn't want another Marino mistake on his watch. Here is exactly how it happened:



He never said who was for or against Ben. It's always been a myth that Cowher didn't want him. Nobody knows who did or didn't want him. But in order to throw some mud on Cowher and make Tomlin look better people will do almost anything.

While he didn't out right say to draft Ben...his words obviously carried some weight. It isn't any secret Cowher relied on defense and a good running game in his game plan....Oh yeah. And a FG kicker.

 

[stillwright]

You mean like ARII said Haley was Tomlin's hire? And how nobody knows for a fact that it's not true, yet some persist in saying he's lying; because that makes Tomlin look like he has no authority to hire his own coaches. Never could understand that one because the same folks will then say that the HC who isn't allowed to hire his own coaches has the final say in the draft. I mean if you were ARII and you didn't trust your coach to hire his own coordinators, why in the hell would you allow him to run your draft. It's a definite conundrum..

I always believed DL had more say in the draft than what others thought on here for the reasons you just stated. Tomlin was made to keep DL but had control to draft players for 5 plus yrs that didn't fit DL defense. Why would DL stay on? I know everyone says loyalty to his players but if that is the case he in turn hurt the team more than anything else by staying. Trying year after year to work with the wrong type of players for his system for his loyal Vets. In the end it is probably some where in between. He had more say than most think and less than I would presume.

 

[Wingman]

Here is something to consider. If the stick we measure by is records as do the Tomlin fans so they can say no losing seasons then we should do the same with Ben. That would put his best year the year Wiz was the coordinator and Cowher the coach, after that 15-1 season the rest have been less successful, I believe the loss was attributable to turn over Tommy.

 

[stillwright]

Here is something to consider. If the stick we measure by is records as do the Tomlin fans so they can say no losing seasons then we should do the same with Ben. That would put his best year the year Wiz was the coordinator and Cowher the coach, after that 15-1 season the rest have been less successful, I believe the loss was attributable to turn over Tommy.

Um...ok. But I believe Ben had his only had a losing season under Cowher...in 2006 Ben went 7 - 8. Under Tomlin he never had a losing season.

 

[Wingman]

Um...ok. But I believe Ben had his only had a losing season under Cowher...in 2006 Ben went 7 - 8. Under Tomlin he never had a losing season.

if 8 and 8 is the goal have at it, i prefer the 15 and 1 type seasons myself. No losing seasons is kinda like being the worlds tallest midget you still come up short.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

if 8 and 8 is the goal have at it, i prefer the 15 and 1 type seasons myself. No losing seasons is kinda like being the worlds tallest midget you still come up short.

Which makes the losing season even worse ... no? Because it fell that much more short of the 15 and 1 type season.

According to some, we're supposed to give Cowher some slack because of the accident and the appendix. Why? It seems to me that the decision to play Ben after those two incidents, when he wasn't fully healthy, was the coach's prerogative as much as playing Ben in SF was a few seasons ago. Yet for one coach the fact that Ben wasn't 100% is an excuse and for another it's evidence of incompetence. In my opinion, they were both terrible decisions.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I myself prefer seasons that end in Super bowl championships. i personally hate that 15-1 season

 

[Vader]

[/B]
While he didn't out right say to draft Ben...his words obviously carried some weight. It isn't any secret Cowher relied on defense and a good running game in his game plan....Oh yeah. And a FG kicker.

I never said otherwise did I? We just don't know who wanted who in that draft. Many have speculated the Cowher didn't want Ben. There is NO proof of that at all. Maybe Colbert didn't want him? Nobody knows but the myth that Rooney came in and over rode Cowher's pick is nonsense. Rooney makes it very clear that he kept steering the conversation back to Ben and that a consensus was reached. But somehow the myth still prevails that Rooney had to step in and order Cowher to pick Ben against his wishes. It's bullshit.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Here is something to consider. If the stick we measure by is records as do the Tomlin fans so they can say no losing seasons then we should do the same with Ben. That would put his best year the year Wiz was the coordinator and Cowher the coach, after that 15-1 season the rest have been less successful, I believe the loss was attributable to turn over Tommy.

To my knowlege, the starter of the game is credited with win / loss. STEELERS SEASON 15-1, Tommy "GUN" Maddox 0-1, Rookie Ben Rothlesburger 15-0. Will that ROOKIE record ever be broker? think about it 15-0 in regular season as a rookie. Yeowzzzza

Um...ok. But I believe Ben had his only had a losing season under Cowher...in 2006 Ben went 7 - 8. Under Tomlin he never had a losing season.

TRUE bill, but how many NON-WINNING seasons has Ben had, under tomlin???? It's just a play of words with either having no more importance than the other. Some fuckwits here, are the same fuckwits, wanting their kids to never lose. Let's just not keep score, or, everybody gets a medal!!!! In sports, there are winners and losers, get over it.


Salute the nation

 

[SteelerFan448]

I never said otherwise did I? We just don't know who wanted who in that draft. Many have speculated the Cowher didn't want Ben. There is NO proof of that at all. Maybe Colbert didn't want him? Nobody knows but the myth that Rooney came in and over rode Cowher's pick is nonsense. Rooney makes it very clear that he kept steering the conversation back to Ben and that a consensus was reached. But somehow the myth still prevails that Rooney had to step in and order Cowher to pick Ben against his wishes. It's bullshit.

I think what's amazing is that the Steelers used about five minutes of their draft clock. I'd be interested in seeing the stats for average time used in the first round to make their selection. When is the last time we haven't had a "run to the podium" selection?

 

[ark steel]

I never said otherwise did I? We just don't know who wanted who in that draft. Many have speculated the Cowher didn't want Ben. There is NO proof of that at all. Maybe Colbert didn't want him? Nobody knows but the myth that Rooney came in and over rode Cowher's pick is nonsense. Rooney makes it very clear that he kept steering the conversation back to Ben and that a consensus was reached. But somehow the myth still prevails that Rooney had to step in and order Cowher to pick Ben against his wishes. It's bullshit.

Rooney makes it clear? Now, I'm supposed to believe what the FO/Coach/players say in print or an interview? Could it be that Rooney didn't want to throw his coach under the bus?

And, frankly, I don't see that there was anything to discuss, especially, if the conversation had to be steered towards Ben.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I never said otherwise did I? We just don't know who wanted who in that draft. Many have speculated the Cowher didn't want Ben. There is NO proof of that at all. Maybe Colbert didn't want him? Nobody knows but the myth that Rooney came in and over rode Cowher's pick is nonsense. Rooney makes it very clear that he kept steering the conversation back to Ben and that a consensus was reached. But somehow the myth still prevails that Rooney had to step in and order Cowher to pick Ben against his wishes. It's bullshit.

My question why was there a discussion. Why did the conversation have to steered? Once the prior pick was in, our pick should of been in for Ben in seconds. Especially since Cowher had to deal with the QBs he had no choice in picking prior to Ben{sarcasm]

 

[FAB802]

SN, where stories nobody really knows the answer to go to be rehashed..........................................................

 

[antdrewjosh]

I see we on the same page Ark, There should of been no discussion.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I mean if us fans knew the only thing holding Cowher's Steelers back was a QB then how he could not know. What's the discussion about?

 

[stillwright]

I never said otherwise did I? We just don't know who wanted who in that draft. Many have speculated the Cowher didn't want Ben. There is NO proof of that at all. Maybe Colbert didn't want him? Nobody knows but the myth that Rooney came in and over rode Cowher's pick is nonsense. Rooney makes it very clear that he kept steering the conversation back to Ben and that a consensus was reached. But somehow the myth still prevails that Rooney had to step in and order Cowher to pick Ben against his wishes. It's bullshit.

I didn't say you did say other wise. I just pointed out that it could just as well be true. From what I remember Cowher liked Rivers and if he was there he would of jumped on drafting him. Since Rivers was gone he wanted Andrews.

 

[Superman]

Rooney, as Vader stated, steered the conversation to Ben. As Rooney, stated, this was something he kept doing.
From this, we can deduce that Rooney wanted Ben.
Others did not.
Others may have wanted a different player.
Rooney's opinion had more merit than anyone else, as the conversation kept going back to Ben and we drafted Ben.
Thus, we can state that Ben was a Rooney pick - despite who voiced the pick, who wrote the name down, who notified the league office, etc.

I belive it was on record that Cowher liked Rivers, as they're from the same college.
I think Cowher also liked Andrews.

Rivers was from a bigger school than Ben, so we can state that Rivers faced more/better talent per week.
Andrews was a highly rated OL.

Rivers was gone. so we can remove him from the equation.
Andrews was still on the board. So we can pretty much determine that the discussion was between Andrews and Ben.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Rooney makes it clear? Now, I'm supposed to believe what the FO/Coach/players say in print or an interview? Could it be that Rooney didn't want to throw his coach under the bus?

And, frankly, I don't see that there was anything to discuss, especially, if the conversation had to be steered towards Ben.

Well, last week someone was telling me how it would be a ridiculous idea for a team to seek a consensus when making draft picks. Not saying it was Vader, because honestly can't remember who it was. Yet, I find it interesting Vader states that a consensus was reached on the Ben pick. Because it's been said on this board that Tomlin has final say on draft picks. Again, it's puzzling that there was a requirement of a consensus under Cowher, yet Tomlin rules with an iron fist.

 

[stillwright]

Rooney, as Vader stated, steered the conversation to Ben. As Rooney, stated, this was something he kept doing.
From this, we can deduce that Rooney wanted Ben.
Others did not.
Others may have wanted a different player.
Rooney's opinion had more merit than anyone else, as the conversation kept going back to Ben and we drafted Ben.
Thus, we can state that Ben was a Rooney pick - despite who voiced the pick, who wrote the name down, who notified the league office, etc.

I belive it was on record that Cowher liked Rivers, as they're from the same college.
I think Cowher also liked Andrews.

Rivers was from a bigger school than Ben, so we can state that Rivers faced more/better talent per week.
Andrews was a highly rated OL.

Rivers was gone. so we can remove him from the equation.
Andrews was still on the board. So we can pretty much determine that the discussion was between Andrews and Ben.

I think I had the shorter version right above your post....

 

[Vader]

Rooney, as Vader stated, steered the conversation to Ben. As Rooney, stated, this was something he kept doing.
From this, we can deduce that Rooney wanted Ben.
Others did not.
Others may have wanted a different player.
Rooney's opinion had more merit than anyone else, as the conversation kept going back to Ben and we drafted Ben.
Thus, we can state that Ben was a Rooney pick - despite who voiced the pick, who wrote the name down, who notified the league office, etc.

I belive it was on record that Cowher liked Rivers, as they're from the same college.
I think Cowher also liked Andrews.

Rivers was from a bigger school than Ben, so we can state that Rivers faced more/better talent per week.
Andrews was a highly rated OL.

Rivers was gone. so we can remove him from the equation.
Andrews was still on the board. So we can pretty much determine that the discussion was between Andrews and Ben.

You can't deduce anything from that. I know that you want to believe it but that doesn't make it true. Maybe Colbert and others wanted someone else? You don't know. You can "believe" all you want that doesn't make it true. I know Cowher liked Rivers. So what? How do we know Rooney didn't like Rivers? How do you know Cowher wanted Ben and Colbert and the rest of the staff wanted someone else? Do we really know if all the love for Rivers wasn't a smoke screen? Why would Cowher talk about him so highly and up his value?

But somehow the myth still remains. Nobody can answer any of those questions but the myth remains because of what people want to believe not what really happened.

 

[Vader]

Well, last week someone was telling me how it would be a ridiculous idea for a team to seek a consensus when making draft picks. Not saying it was Vader, because honestly can't remember who it was. Yet, I find it interesting Vader states that a consensus was reached on the Ben pick. Because it's been said on this board that Tomlin has final say on draft picks. Again, it's puzzling that there was a requirement of a consensus under Cowher, yet Tomlin rules with an iron fist.

Someone makes the final decision. Whether it is by the owner bring the discussion back around to who he wants or the coach saying that is his guy. Someone is changing someone else's mind. A consensus is reached when someone gets their way. The idea that 10 people in a room can all agree to the exact same players every single year is ignorant. Someone has to be responsible.

The issue with Ben, Rooney and Cowher is that we don't know who said what or who wanted who. Show me where a discussion was made about a draft pick with Tomlin and Rooney... just one. You can't.

 

[stillwright]

You can't deduce anything from that. I know that you want to believe it but that doesn't make it true. Maybe Colbert and others wanted someone else? You don't know. You can "believe" all you want that doesn't make it true. I know Cowher liked Rivers. So what? How do we know Rooney didn't like Rivers? How do you know Cowher wanted Ben and Colbert and the rest of the staff wanted someone else? Do we really know if all the love for Rivers wasn't a smoke screen? Why would Cowher talk about him so highly and up his value?

But somehow the myth still remains. Nobody can answer any of those questions but the myth remains because of what people want to believe not what really happened.

So it is just as likely you could be wrong and it did happen....or you didn't say that?

 

[Vader]

So it is just as likely you could be wrong and it did happen....or you didn't say that?

I'm saying the myth that Rooney had to step in and keep Cowher from drafting Andrews is wrong. The idea that Cowher didn't want Ben is wrong. Is it possible? sure... but so is 1000 more things that nobody knows. BTW here is a write up of the draft after it happened:

Bill Cowher, wearing a Cheshire Cat grin, is interviewed. He can hardly hide his excitement. For the first time in his career, he has an elite quarterback on his roster, a guy that should have gone No. 1 overall but inexplicably slipped to No. 11.