Tomlin Rated #6 Best NFL Coach

[Vader]

so, in other words ... Cowher and Rooney wanted Ben (using your logic) and the only reason there was a discussion going on was because Cowher was toying with Colbert and his staff? Jeez ... really? THIS is what you believe?

so we in fact did spring to the podium to select Ben?

You seriously think the FO doesn't put a rather high value on Rooney's opinion?

So you don't believe what Cowher said? Please show me how long it took them to get to the podium. They called Ben and talked to him 3 minutes before it was announced. So you do the math genius.

I absolutely think they put a higher value on Rooney since he is the boss. He could have just told them to do it. But obviously there was some discussion about it. But nobody, including you, know exactly what was said and by who. Again according to Cowher, Ben was the pick if he was there. But I'm sure you know better... smh

 

[Vader]

Smh my point is there should of been no discussion. Cowher should of been doing backflips and somersaults and ran from Pittsburgh to NY to turn the pick in himself. Cause we all know according to this board the only reason he didnt win a championship prior to Ben was he didnt have QB. So why the discussion? Cowher was livid over Javon Kearse but he was perfectly fine standing by as Shane Andrews name was being tossed around. Really? He should of been bangimg the desk for Ben.

How do you know he didn't? You don't. It's pure conjecture on your part. You have no idea who wanted Andrews and who didn't. But you are fine to trash him for something you know nothing about.. yea I can see you are a big fan of his... bs

 

[ark steel]

Is there a scorecard on when I'm supposed to believe what a coach or player says and when I am not?

 

[Drink IRON City]

Whats funny is, I steer things back to what i want, at times, and I don't ebven own the Pittsburgh Steelers !!!!!




Salute the nation

 

[FSF]

And again not ONE name of who didn't want Ben. Not ONE. Maybe it was Colbert? You just assume it was Cowher. But again according to Cowher he was on board with Ben. So are you calling him a liar?

Forgive me for not properly researching the full thread of your debate; so if I state something that has been said or if off base, my apologies. I have my Dan Rooney Book in storage so I can't check the exact quote, but I do remember it clearly saying that by the time the pick was made everyone was on board for it.

The word at the time was that the Steelers (Cowher and Colbert) really liked Rivers -- he was really more NFL ready as a Senior and technically more fundamentally sound -- lets face it Roethlisberger has ALWAYS been unconventional. And in reality if not for Eli Manning's shenanigans its likely Ben would have went to the Giants and the Steelers would have had Rivers. So who really knows what happened in that room -- I do know this, not one person on this board knows nor will ever know. All we can do is go from Dan Rooney's word.

What we do know is that Rooney's influence and experience on allowing Noll to have final say over the 1983 pick and not taking Marino essentially over a grudge on John Clayton prevented us from missing another Hall of Fame QB. It's a reminder that building a team is successful not from the Owner or the GM or the Coach -- but a combination of all 3 working harmoniously.

 

[stillwright]

Is there a scorecard on when I'm supposed to believe what a coach or player says and when I am not?

When DL talked highly of J Jones after drafting him he was lying. When Cowher talked about Ben being his guy it was truth talk. I know it is some times hard for me to figure out. I usually come here to find the truth.

 

[Wingman]

Forgive me for not properly researching the full thread of your debate; so if I state something that has been said or if off base, my apologies. I have my Dan Rooney Book in storage so I can't check the exact quote, but I do remember it clearly saying that by the time the pick was made everyone was on board for it.

The word at the time was that the Steelers (Cowher and Colbert) really liked Rivers -- he was really more NFL ready as a Senior and technically more fundamentally sound -- lets face it Roethlisberger has ALWAYS been unconventional. And in reality if not for Eli Manning's shenanigans its likely Ben would have went to the Giants and the Steelers would have had Rivers. So who really knows what happened in that room -- I do know this, not one person on this board knows nor will ever know. All we can do is go from Dan Rooney's word.

What we do know is that Rooney's influence and experience on allowing Noll to have final say over the 1983 pick and not taking Marino essentially over a grudge on John Clayton prevented us from missing another Hall of Fame QB. It's a reminder that building a team is successful not from the Owner or the GM or the Coach -- but a combination of all 3 working harmoniously.

Excellent thoughts. I offer one other possibility could it have been a question of a looking at several prospective good players and debating which would be the best value for the team and the draft pick? I would think that at position number 11 there is are many talented players still left and it might have a bit of discussion prior to reaching a consensus. I am just thinking the nest three spots were likely also worthy of being taken with the 11th pick.

 

[Superman]

consensus? there doesnt need to be a consensus. in anything.
are you people that ignorant?
nm... i know the answer to that.

 

[Superman]

here's the quote from Cowher:

http://bigben7.com/after-draft-day-2004/

“If one of those backs would have slid, we were not going to hesitate to grab him. It’s just like the quarterback position. We felt good about that, but Roethlisberger slid and we got him, and we bettered our football team.” – Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, on selecting a quarterback over a running back – from an interview with the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, April 26, 2004.

"Just like the quarterback position" doesnt mean that Cowher was thinking QB.
Was he referencing DeAngelo Hall or Dunta Robinson, yet we got lucky that Ben was there? that seems more likely.

 

[Super Dave]

Forgive me for not properly researching the full thread of your debate; so if I state something that has been said or if off base, my apologies. I have my Dan Rooney Book in storage so I can't check the exact quote, but I do remember it clearly saying that by the time the pick was made everyone was on board for it.

The word at the time was that the Steelers (Cowher and Colbert) really liked Rivers -- he was really more NFL ready as a Senior and technically more fundamentally sound -- lets face it Roethlisberger has ALWAYS been unconventional. And in reality if not for Eli Manning's shenanigans its likely Ben would have went to the Giants and the Steelers would have had Rivers. So who really knows what happened in that room -- I do know this, not one person on this board knows nor will ever know. All we can do is go from Dan Rooney's word.

What we do know is that Rooney's influence and experience on allowing Noll to have final say over the 1983 pick and not taking Marino essentially over a grudge on John Clayton prevented us from missing another Hall of Fame QB. It's a reminder that building a team is successful not from the Owner or the GM or the Coach -- but a combination of all 3 working harmoniously.

Thank you FSF......Awesome football related post.....One of these days I would like to hear about the John Clayton / Chuck Noll conflict......

 

[Vader]

Forgive me for not properly researching the full thread of your debate; so if I state something that has been said or if off base, my apologies. I have my Dan Rooney Book in storage so I can't check the exact quote, but I do remember it clearly saying that by the time the pick was made everyone was on board for it.

The word at the time was that the Steelers (Cowher and Colbert) really liked Rivers -- he was really more NFL ready as a Senior and technically more fundamentally sound -- lets face it Roethlisberger has ALWAYS been unconventional. And in reality if not for Eli Manning's shenanigans its likely Ben would have went to the Giants and the Steelers would have had Rivers. So who really knows what happened in that room -- I do know this, not one person on this board knows nor will ever know. All we can do is go from Dan Rooney's word.

What we do know is that Rooney's influence and experience on allowing Noll to have final say over the 1983 pick and not taking Marino essentially over a grudge on John Clayton prevented us from missing another Hall of Fame QB. It's a reminder that building a team is successful not from the Owner or the GM or the Coach -- but a combination of all 3 working harmoniously.

I've been in hundreds of business meetings and chaired many boards. There is always a leader. Do you think Rooney would have allowed Ben not to be drafted? Let's just say that Colbert, Cowher et el are on board with Andrews or a RB. Rooney is the only one wanting Ben. Tell me who gets drafted.

 

[Superman]

I've been in hundreds of business meetings and chaired many boards. There is always a leader. Do you think Rooney would have allowed Ben not to be drafted? Let's just say that Colbert, Cowher et el are on board with Andrews or a RB. Rooney is the only one wanting Ben. Tell me who gets drafted.

at the expense of replying to you even though you did not directly ask, you're thereby saying that Rooney did, in fact, force the Ben pick.

Do you think Rooney would have allowed Ben not to be drafted?

 

[Super Dave]

so, in other words ... Cowher and Rooney wanted Ben (using your logic) and the only reason there was a discussion going on was because Cowher was toying with Colbert and his staff? Jeez ... really? THIS is what you believe?

so we in fact did spring to the podium to select Ben?

You seriously think the FO doesn't put a rather high value on Rooney's opinion?

Why not just use the words he posted?

Why do we need other words?

 

[Superman]

Why not just use the words he posted?

Why do we need other words?

didn't i adequately reproject precisely what he was stating?

 

[Vader]

didn't i adequately reproject precisely what he was stating?

No, you just added gibberish (Toying with Colbert) and add no value at all to what I said. Which is why on one hand you want there to be a consensus but on the other hand you want Rooney to override Cowher so that Cowher looks like he didn't want Ben at all.

All I've stated is that nobody knows for sure who was talking about other players. Of course I know you think you know. But you don't. But I don't think for one minute Rooney was going to let Ben just slip away. I just don't know who else was saying what during the meeting.

 

[Superman]

No, you just added gibberish (Toying with Colbert) and add no value at all to what I said. Which is why on one hand you want there to be a consensus but on the other hand you want Rooney to override Cowher so that Cowher looks like he didn't want Ben at all.

All I've stated is that nobody knows for sure who was talking about other players. Of course I know you think you know. But you don't. But I don't think for one minute Rooney was going to let Ben just slip away. I just don't know who else was saying what during the meeting.

I couldnt give a **** if there was a consensus.
What I said was Rooney made that call. YOU disagreed with that statement.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I was the one who said they try to reach a consensus on the first round picks. A statement that is backed by Rooney's excerpt and a few statements made by Tomlin and Colbert. However, it's obvious that if the owner of the team steps in and says I prefer this guy over this guy, he's going to get what he wants. The consensus is still reached, only the motivation changes. i.e. "I want to keep my job."

On a side note, apologies to Vader. I thought you were the one who was arguing so vehemently that Tomlin alone was responsible for all the picks. In going back and looking over some posts, I see that that particular discussion did not involve you.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Sad thing is, Coach Shades probably IS the 6th best coach in the NFL.

 

[Vader]

I couldnt give a **** if there was a consensus.
What I said was Rooney made that call. YOU disagreed with that statement.

My statement is very clear. Rooney was going to draft Ben regardless of anyone else IMHO. But I have no idea who else wanted Ben and who didn't. Maybe they were just throwing out options. I have no idea... BTW you don't either.

I was the one who said they try to reach a consensus on the first round picks. A statement that is backed by Rooney's excerpt and a few statements made by Tomlin and Colbert. However, it's obvious that if the owner of the team steps in and says I prefer this guy over this guy, he's going to get what he wants. The consensus is still reached, only the motivation changes. i.e. "I want to keep my job."

On a side note, apologies to Vader. I thought you were the one who was arguing so vehemently that Tomlin alone was responsible for all the picks. In going back and looking over some posts, I see that that particular discussion did not involve you.

Thanks for the apology. My thoughts on the subject is that someone is always leading the discussion. Like I've said, I've been involved in hundreds of "consensus building" meetings. It always goes the same way no matter who the people. No matter how weak or strong the people someone is in charge. I've never seen it otherwise. IMHO Tomlin along with Colbert are responsible for drafting. I know others are involved with giving input, stats, measurables etc... however either Colbert or Tomlin is the "guy". I'm going to say it's Tomlin based on the type of player change when he arrived. The entire type of LB and DL changed over night. I don't think Colbert would change that quickly for no reason. Tomlin has had great input in the draft since he arrived.

BTW they may give deference to certain coaches later in the draft.

 

[antdrewjosh]

How do you know he didn't? You don't. It's pure conjecture on your part. You have no idea who wanted Andrews and who didn't. But you are fine to trash him for something you know nothing about.. yea I can see you are a big fan of his... bs

You would never find a quote from me calling for his head back then if the board could bring it up. Til this day watching the Super Bowl win over Seattle when his daughter says "We're world champions Dad" makes me tear up. So please don't tell me I didn't love Bill Cowher. For me he was the coach who turned us around. Just turned 18 when he got the job. I was more happy for him then Bettis when we beat Seattle. No agenda here.

 

[Vader]

You would never find a quote from me calling for his head back then if the board could bring it up. Til this day watching the Super Bowl win over Seattle when his daughter says "We're world champions Dad" makes me tear up. So please don't tell me I didn't love Bill Cowher. For me he was the coach who turned us around. Just turned 18 when he got the job. I was more happy for him then Bettis when we beat Seattle. No agenda here.

Then why pretend that you know something about him that you don't? You nor I have any idea who he wanted or who he told the group he wanted. But somehow you are ok with continuing a myth that may not even be half true.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Then why pretend that you know something about him that you don't? You nor I have any idea who he wanted or who he told the group he wanted. But somehow you are ok with continuing a myth that may not even be half true.

That's because it's not a big deal only to those who try to justify the Cowher players vs Tomlin players bullshit arguement is it a big deal. Cowher believed in a strong running game and great defense so it's not a stretch for me to believe he had to be convinced or steered around to Ben. Andrews forte was strong run blocking really not that hard to believe. Of course to those who believe Tomlin only won because he had Ben this is the holy grail.

 

[Vader]

That's because it's not a big deal only to those who try to justify the Cowher players vs Tomlin players bullshit arguement is it a big deal. Cowher believed in a strong running game and great defense so it's not a stretch for me to believe he had to be convinced or steered around to Ben. Andrews forte was strong run blocking really not that hard to believe. Of course to those who believe Tomlin only won because he had Ben this is the holy grail.

It appears to be a big deal to you. So much so that you use illogical thinking and out right myths to discuss it. You are assuming things that you have no idea about. What does Cowher believing in a great defense have to do with drafting Andrews? Does Tomlin not believe in a great defense? Does he not believe in the running game? Oh... do you think Tomlin wins a SB without Ben? Really? Who's the QB of this great team?

The fact is that Tomlin defenders want to make Ben a Rooney pick so that it makes Tomlin look better. Period. That's all it is. So they take a piece of a story and exaggerate it to make it look like Cowher never even wanted Ben. When in reality they don't know ****. All they know is that Rooney wanted Ben and he was going to make sure he got him. But nothing in that story says anything about Cowher.. not ONE thing. Nothing but conjecture, myth and opinion based on nothing.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

hey look its last year all over again.

 

[Omar10213245]

hey look its last year all over again.

Hey gee well whaddaya know!