Tomlin Rated #6 Best NFL Coach

[Vader]

A quote from Cowher right after the draft:

“We felt if Ben would drop to No. 11, we’re not up here every year in the draft, and a quality player like that is hard to pass up. He’s right there with Eli and Philip. The thing that separates him is experience. Ben only played one year in high school and three in college…It’s a good situation we have with the veterans in front of him, and not feel the pressure of having to turn the team around immediately.” – Former Steelers Coach Bill Cowher, on selecting Ben over a running back, April 24, 2004.

What? No mention of Andrews? Just a RB????

 

[antdrewjosh]

A quote from Cowher right after the draft:



What? No mention of Andrews? Just a RB????

So now its ok to believe a coach talking about a player? I thought that was frowned upon around here. Oh its ok for Bill...

 

[Superman]

I'm saying the myth that Rooney had to step in and keep Cowher from drafting Andrews is wrong. The idea that Cowher didn't want Ben is wrong. Is it possible? sure... but so is 1000 more things that nobody knows. BTW here is a write up of the draft after it happened:

you are one hard-headed intentionally obtuse *******, aren't you? didn't YOU just post that Rooney said he steered the conversation back to Ben? You did state specifically just that, correct? I mean, I can see it on my screen, and I'm sure others can as well, so you did just state that. Correct?

I get sick of this myth. Rooney said in his book that he walked in while the coaches were discussing who to draft. He never said they were going to draft Andrews or anyone else. He just told them to draft Ben. He didn't want another Marino mistake on his watch. Here is exactly how it happened:

so, absolutely we CAN, without a shred of a doubt, state emphatically that it is a concrete ******* fact that Rooney wanted Ben. Right?
I don't give a **** if 10 of the other 11 people in the room wanted Ben. Rooney wanted Ben. Correct?

So Rooney's opinion weighed more heavily than anyone else's in the room, since, as you also quoted that the conversation kept being steered back to Ben by ... Rooney.

 

[Vader]

you are one hard-headed intentionally obtuse *******, aren't you? didn't YOU just post that Rooney said he steered the conversation back to Ben? You did state specifically just that, correct? I mean, I can see it on my screen, and I'm sure others can as well, so you did just state that. Correct?



so, absolutely we CAN, without a shred of a doubt, state emphatically that it is a concrete ******* fact that Rooney wanted Ben. Right?
I don't give a **** if 10 of the other 11 people in the room wanted Ben. Rooney wanted Ben. Correct?

So Rooney's opinion weighed more heavily than anyone else's in the room, since, as you also quoted that the conversation kept being steered back to Ben by ... Rooney.

We know that Rooney wanted Ben.. absolutely. We don't know who didn't want him... Cowher said he wanted him and that if he were there at 11 he would take him. So what's you beef? You still think Cowher wanted Andrews? Even though he said specifically that Ben was the guy? Talk about a hard head obtuse *******...

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Someone makes the final decision. Whether it is by the owner bring the discussion back around to who he wants or the coach saying that is his guy. Someone is changing someone else's mind. A consensus is reached when someone gets their way. The idea that 10 people in a room can all agree to the exact same players every single year is ignorant. Someone has to be responsible.

The issue with Ben, Rooney and Cowher is that we don't know who said what or who wanted who. Show me where a discussion was made about a draft pick with Tomlin and Rooney... just one. You can't.

Excuse me, I thought the title of this thread was "Tomlin Rated #6 Best NFL Coach". Hence, my bringing Tomlin into the discussion. But, if you must know, the "original" statement that led us down this merry little road to discussing Cowher v. Rooney entailed a statement to the effect that Tomlin doesn't choose his coaches, etc. Let me see if I can find it for you ....

Did you guys not realise that Mr Rooney gave an statement to the press announcing the departure of B.Arians from the Steelers only days after Coach Marvel had announced that he was not planning any personnel changes within his assistant coaches?

Was this not an unprecedented direct intervention from the owners to correct the HC shortcoming and lack of understanding of what was happening with his team, and more importantly, which his franchise QB?

After this fact, would you still credit Tomlin with Ben's development and great numbers?

This then led to the discussion about Rooney stepping in to make the Ben pick. According to some overriding Cowher's wishes.Whereupon YOU stated that it was a CONSENSUS pick.

So, please tell me again what your point is. My statement is a direct result of the flow of conversation. I'm sorry that you don't understand that.

 

[antdrewjosh]

LOL anything to keep up the arguement that Bill Cowher didnt win because he didnt have a QB. He didnt value the position. Defense, Running game and special teams is what he valued. Which is why he wanted Andrews. A strong run blocker.

 

[Vader]

Excuse me, I thought the title of this thread was "Tomlin Rated #6 Best NFL Coach". Hence, my bringing Tomlin into the discussion. But, if you must know, the "original" statement that led us down this merry little road to discussing Cowher v. Rooney entailed a statement to the effect that Tomlin doesn't choose his coaches, etc. Let me see if I can find it for you ....



This then led to the discussion about Rooney stepping in to make the Ben pick. According to some overriding Cowher's wishes.Whereupon YOU stated that it was a CONSENSUS pick.

So, please tell me again what your point is. My statement is a direct result of the flow of conversation. I'm sorry that you don't understand that.

Nice way to condescend... do you understand that? I wasn't even talking to you. I quoted Ark.. can you understand that? Or do I need to find it for you? I stated that Rooney said it was a consensus pick and that it was a myth that Cowher didn't want Ben. Which is true. Rooney was going to have Ben regardless if Cowher, Colbert Et el wanted him or not. But that doesn't mean Cowher didn't want him.

LOL anything to keep up the arguement that Bill Cowher didnt win because he didnt have a QB. He didnt value the position. Defense, Running game and special teams is what he valued. Which is why he wanted Andrews. A strong run blocker.

Any proof to that or just your opinion with no facts? Anything to make Cowher look bad to make Tomlin look good I guess.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

So, there's a new rule that because you don't address a post to a particular person, they are not free to respond? I thought that's what private messages were for. Thanks for letting me know. Here I had this whole message board thing upside down.

Condescend? You say that like it's a bad thing rather than a tool of necessity at times.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Nice way to condescend... do you understand that? I wasn't even talking to you. I quoted Ark.. can you understand that? Or do I need to find it for you? I stated that Rooney said it was a consensus pick and that it was a myth that Cowher didn't want Ben. Which is true. Rooney was going to have Ben regardless if Cowher, Colbert Et el wanted him or not. But that doesn't mean Cowher didn't want him.



Any proof to that or just your opinion with no facts? Anything to make Cowher look bad to make Tomlin look good I guess.

Why would I want him to look bad? I loved him as a coach and didn't want him to retire. Never wanted him fired when the team didn't do well. So no agenda here. Doesn't mean I have to make up **** to make one coach look better then the other Cowher valued a strong defense and a strong running game. so it makes sense he wanted Andrews after Rivers was picked.

 

[Vader]

So, there's a new rule that because you don't address a post to a particular person, they are not free to respond? I thought that's what private messages were for. Thanks for letting me know. Here I had this whole message board thing upside down.

Condescend? You say that like it's a bad thing rather than a necessary one.

It isn't necessary for you to do to me. I understand you have issues with reading and writing. I was talking to Ark. Can you understand that? What does what you wrote to someone else have to do with that? Nothing. So either you should have answered what I was talking about or you should have kept you pie hole shut. I never said you couldn't respond. However crying about me not talking about what you and another poster was talking about is stupid. Since I wasn't even talking to you.

 

[Vader]

Why would I want him to look bad? I loved him as a coach and didn't want him to retire. Never wanted him fired when the team didn't do well. So no agenda here. Doesn't mean I have to make up **** to make one coach look better then the other Cowher valued a strong defense and a strong running game. so it makes sense he wanted Andrews after Rivers was picked.

Why didn't he want a RB? How about an OLB? Or an ILB? Aren't those just as justified? And again do you have any proof? Any at all? Nope. Just your opinion. I have a quote from Cowher saying he wanted Ben if he fell to 11. What do you have? Nothing.

 

[Superman]

We know that Rooney wanted Ben.. absolutely. We don't know who didn't want him... Cowher said he wanted him and that if he were there at 11 he would take him. So what's you beef? You still think Cowher wanted Andrews? Even though he said specifically that Ben was the guy? Talk about a hard head obtuse *******...

no. not at all. Cowher could have wanted Ben. Cowher could have wanted Andrews if Rivers was off the board. Pure speculation about who Cowher wanted.
Rooney wanted Ben. We got Ben. Rooney steered the conversation back to Ben each time it got away from Ben. Thus, you can state that Rooney was the one who MOST wanted Ben. Ben is Rooney's pick. Period.

I, for one, am grateful we took Ben instead of anyone else on the board.

 

[Vader]

no. not at all. Cowher could have wanted Ben. Cowher could have wanted Andrews if Rivers was off the board. Pure speculation about who Cowher wanted.
Rooney wanted Ben. We got Ben. Rooney steered the conversation back to Ben each time it got away from Ben. Thus, you can state that Rooney was the one who MOST wanted Ben. Ben is Rooney's pick. Period.

I, for one, am grateful we took Ben instead of anyone else on the board.

So he wanted him "more" than anyone else? LOL... Cowher said he wanted him if he fell. I know it's hard for you but it is the truth. They got on the phone with Ben as soon as it was their pick. Cowher called him.

 

[antdrewjosh]

HAHAHAHAHA this board cracks me up.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

It isn't necessary for you to do to me. I understand you have issues with reading and writing. I was talking to Ark. Can you understand that? What does what you wrote to someone else have to do with that? Nothing. So either you should have answered what I was talking about or you should have kept you pie hole shut. I never said you couldn't respond. However crying about me not talking about what you and another poster was talking about is stupid. Since I wasn't even talking to you.

So, you would like to retain the authority to reply to posts not directed to you. Yet deny the same privilege to others. I understand that perfectly. What I'm saying is that I didn't CARE who you were replying to. I felt like responding. It's a privilege extended to posters on message boards. And when you post something publicly you should not expect that only the person you were responding/posting to will respond. If you only want one person to respond to what you write on a message board, you should use the private message function. Does that not make sense to you?

Further, I wasn't crying about you not talking about me. You responded to what I wrote. Sometimes I think you half-*** read these posts and then respond to what you think you saw/read. Either that, or you just enjoy making **** up.

In any event, Easter dinner is about to be served, so I will leave you to your desired "private" conversation on a "public" thread.

 

[antdrewjosh]

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/6043/big-ben-pick-returned-steelers-to-glory


The Browns' picking tight end Kellen Winslow Jr. proved to be one of the draft's pivotal points. But the Steelers also came close to passing over Roethlisberger after he lasted through the first 10 picks.

The team had zeroed in on Arkansas offensive tackle Shawn Andrews, but owner Dan Rooney deftly shifted the conversation to Roethlisberger before the Steelers made their pick.

Rooney had good reason to speak up.

The Steelers had built their dynasty in the 1970s -- and transformed an organization once synonymous with losing -- through shrewd drafting.

They had missed an opportunity near the end of Bradshaw's career when they passed on local legend Dan Marino in the 1983 draft and instead selected Texas Tech defensive tackle Gabe Rivera with the 21st pick.

The Dolphins pounced on Marino with the 27th selection, and his strong arm and quick-as-a-hiccup release allowed the Pitt product to become an early star in Miami and eventually a first-ballot Pro Football Hall of Famer.

The Steelers, meanwhile, shuffled through enough quarterbacks in the post-Bradshaw era that seven different players led them in passing from 1983 to 2003.

Rooney fretted that overlooking Roethlisberger also might come back to haunt the Steelers.

"I couldn't bear the thought of passing on another great quarterback prospect," Rooney wrote in his book "Dan Rooney: My 75 Years With The Pittsburgh Steelers and The NFL."

"So I steered the conversation around to Roethlisberger. After some more talk, we came to a consensus and picked Roethlisberger."

 

[antdrewjosh]

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story/...er-title-game-qbs-had-shot-to-grow-into-roles

Dan Rooney wrote in his 2007 autobiography that the memory of passing on Dan Marino in 1983, the quarterback who grew up down the street and starred collegiately across town, stuck with him for two decades. And it was that memory that motivated him to push his football people to draft Ben Roethlisberger in 2004, even as some of them leaned toward selecting Arkansas tackle Shawn Andrews.

On draft day, Rooney recounted, "I couldn't bear the thought of passing on another great quarterback prospect the way we passed on Dan Marino in 1983, so I steered conversation to Roethlisberger."


The pick itself, might have seemed a little unconventional. The Steelers' 6-10 season in 2003 was an aberration, coming off consecutive division titles, and the roster was stocked in a win-now kind of way, making it an awkward place for a stud rookie quarterback to traverse. But the owner has pull, and Big Ben's talent was too much to overlook.

 

[Vader]

So, you would like to retain the authority to reply to posts not directed to you. Yet deny the same privilege to others. I understand that perfectly. What I'm saying is that I didn't CARE who you were replying to. I felt like responding. It's a privilege extended to posters on message boards. And when you post something publicly you should not expect that only the person you were responding/posting to will respond. If you only want one person to respond to what you write on a message board, you should use the private message function. Does that not make sense to you?

Further, I wasn't crying about you not talking about me. You responded to what I wrote. Sometimes I think you half-*** read these posts and then respond to what you think you saw/read. Either that, or you just enjoy making **** up.

In any event, Easter dinner is about to be served, so I will leave you to your desired "private" conversation on a "public" thread.

No, you still can't comprehend. I quoted Ark right? Then you bitched because I wasn't discussing what you posted. I have no problem with people discussing what ever. But then you ***** when I'm not even talking to you. You're the one that bitched not me.

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story/...er-title-game-qbs-had-shot-to-grow-into-roles

Dan Rooney wrote in his 2007 autobiography that the memory of passing on Dan Marino in 1983, the quarterback who grew up down the street and starred collegiately across town, stuck with him for two decades. And it was that memory that motivated him to push his football people to draft Ben Roethlisberger in 2004, even as some of them leaned toward selecting Arkansas tackle Shawn Andrews.

On draft day, Rooney recounted, "I couldn't bear the thought of passing on another great quarterback prospect the way we passed on Dan Marino in 1983, so I steered conversation to Roethlisberger."


The pick itself, might have seemed a little unconventional. The Steelers' 6-10 season in 2003 was an aberration, coming off consecutive division titles, and the roster was stocked in a win-now kind of way, making it an awkward place for a stud rookie quarterback to traverse. But the owner has pull, and Big Ben's talent was too much to overlook.

And again not ONE name of who didn't want Ben. Not ONE. Maybe it was Colbert? You just assume it was Cowher. But again according to Cowher he was on board with Ben. So are you calling him a liar?

 

[Vader]

Excuse me, I thought the title of this thread was "Tomlin Rated #6 Best NFL Coach". Hence, my bringing Tomlin into the discussion. But, if you must know, the "original" statement that led us down this merry little road to discussing Cowher v. Rooney entailed a statement to the effect that Tomlin doesn't choose his coaches, etc. Let me see if I can find it for you ....



This then led to the discussion about Rooney stepping in to make the Ben pick. According to some overriding Cowher's wishes.Whereupon YOU stated that it was a CONSENSUS pick.

So, please tell me again what your point is. My statement is a direct result of the flow of conversation. I'm sorry that you don't understand that.

See here you are bitching about the title of the thread and what it lead too and who you were responding too. I was responding to Ark and had nothing to do with either of these quotes. Why do I have to stick to the script and respond to something I didn't care about? I was talking specifically about the Rooney/ Cowher issue in 04'. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

No, you still can't comprehend. I quoted Ark right? Then you bitched because I wasn't discussing what you posted. I have no problem with people discussing what ever. But then you ***** when I'm not even talking to you. You're the one that bitched not me.



And again not ONE name of who didn't want Ben. Not ONE. Maybe it was Colbert? You just assume it was Cowher. But again according to Cowher he was on board with Ben. So are you calling him a liar?

See, I think you have a misunderstanding ... I did not ***** about you not discussing what I wrote. Your opinion is not that important. I responded to a post. You responded to my response. Then you went and got all "butt hurt" because my response was not totally about what you and Ark were discussing. Even though Ark's original post (that you responded to) was more in line with what I wrote about ... which was part of this topic.

I see you want to sit here and have a whole hissy fit, he said she said type of discussion ... that's your prerogative. However, I choose not to engage in that with you. Happy Easter ... This food is looking too good to spend my time arguing with you.

 

[antdrewjosh]

No, you still can't comprehend. I quoted Ark right? Then you bitched because I wasn't discussing what you posted. I have no problem with people discussing what ever. But then you ***** when I'm not even talking to you. You're the one that bitched not me.



And again not ONE name of who didn't want Ben. Not ONE. Maybe it was Colbert? You just assume it was Cowher. But again according to Cowher he was on board with Ben. So are you calling him a liar?

Smh my point is there should of been no discussion. Cowher should of been doing backflips and somersaults and ran from Pittsburgh to NY to turn the pick in himself. Cause we all know according to this board the only reason he didnt win a championship prior to Ben was he didnt have QB. So why the discussion? Cowher was livid over Javon Kearse but he was perfectly fine standing by as Shane Andrews name was being tossed around. Really? He should of been bangimg the desk for Ben.

 

[Litos]

Redundantman spirit lives on this thread.
I bet I have read the same arguments back and forth over and over again through at least 4 pages

 

[stillwright]

Maybe they wanted Ben. Maybe on there draft board Andrews was just higher up on it...hence Rooney steering back to Ben time and time again.

 

[Superman]

So he wanted him "more" than anyone else? LOL... Cowher said he wanted him if he fell. I know it's hard for you but it is the truth. They got on the phone with Ben as soon as it was their pick. Cowher called him.

so, in other words ... Cowher and Rooney wanted Ben (using your logic) and the only reason there was a discussion going on was because Cowher was toying with Colbert and his staff? Jeez ... really? THIS is what you believe?

so we in fact did spring to the podium to select Ben?

You seriously think the FO doesn't put a rather high value on Rooney's opinion?

 

[Superman]

Maybe they wanted Ben. Maybe on there draft board Andrews was just higher up on it...hence Rooney steering back to Ben time and time again.

no no no no no goddammit no
no no no
no one was ever wanted but Ben. Rooney just said this in his book. it's like you people can't comprehend basic english.