Tomlin Sucks

[diver]

Here's what drives me crazy. I turn on national sports talk show this morning, and the first thing I hear is "this is what I love about Mike Tomlin and part of what makes him a great coach, he tells it like it is" Then they play the clip of him saying "that sucked" Then the host goes on to rip the players, etc. and not one negative thing about Tomlin.

Then the local guys talk about his lack of a coaching tree, and try to figure out why that is. It's not hard to see and not hard to figure out, Tomlin doesn't want anyone to challenge him and he has to be the smartest guy in the room, he doesn't want to bring in anyone like that. We had Flores in here, he should've been the DC, now he's in Minnesota with the #3 ranked scoring defense.

I've alway disliked the coaching tree criticism for a few reasons. First off, who cares? Do you want an assistant coach going to another organization and have success? For example, when the Packers started beating the 49ers in the '90s, do you think the 49ers organization, after a loss to the Packers, thought, "Oh, it's OK. We lost to Holmgren. He's part of the Walsh tree!" It seems to me like an argument "experts" use to sound smart, but if they really thought it through...

Some great coaches have never had much of a tree. Lombardi. Noll. Shula. Didn't have much tree. Was that because they couldn't be "challenged?" Another thing, if the branches die, like pretty much all of Belechick's have, what damn good is the tree?

I don't think it is some devious thing why Tomlin doesn't have a tree. Other coaches know that with the way the Steelers do things, keeping a coach in perpetuity, the chance for advancement to the top job in Pittsburgh is none. Young coach, maybe he has a young family, ambitions...what would you do? Go to Pittsburgh, or take a chance on Atlanta or something? Everybody waxes nostalgic about how the Steelers have only had 3 coaches since 1969. There is a lot of positive to that, but here is one of the negatives.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Supposedly a few years ago after one of the earlier late season flame outs, Art announced they were going to get him help with challenges or presumably put someone up in the box. This was after several instances of Tomlin inexplicably saying for example in Cinci that he didn't challenge a play because the opposing stadium did not show it quickly enough or at all on the Jumbotron.

But we never really see Shades talking in the headset on those "weighty downs" either.

Tomlin nixed the idea, otherwise it would have happened.

Before anyone says Rooney is a cheap SOB, Art 2 goes on what ever recommendation Coach Tomlin presents. Tomlin voted it not to happen and that is what happened.


Salute the nation

 

[Drink IRON City]

nother tomlin piece, actually worth reading.

It's not a fire tomlin but, more of a reasoning by using good criteria.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/the-mike-tomlin-problem/ar-AA1wADA7?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=08cc376f1d6b4f409f53547ecd5bcf62&ei=9

Salute the nation

 

[diver]

Supposedly a few years ago after one of the earlier late season flame outs, Art announced they were going to get him help with challenges or presumably put someone up in the box. This was after several instances of Tomlin inexplicably saying for example in Cinci that he didn't challenge a play because the opposing stadium did not show it quickly enough or at all on the Jumbotron.

But we never really see Shades talking in the headset on those "weighty downs" either.

Which makes it interesting this argument that Tomlin has to control everything and cannot be challenged.

Look, Tomlin hasn't been very good on innovation and various other things. But I don't think it's a conspiracy. He just hasn't been very good.

 

[warriors42]

nother tomlin piece, actually worth reading.

It's not a fire tomlin but, more of a reasoning by using good criteria.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/the-mike-tomlin-problem/ar-AA1wADA7?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=08cc376f1d6b4f409f53547ecd5bcf62&ei=9

Salute the nation

Bill Cowher, 15 seasons 9 assistants get promoted to head coaching jobs, Mike Tomlin 18 seasons and not one assistant promoted to a head coaching job. Nobody sees the fricken problem here??

If people can not see that Tomlin is the problem there is only two explanations. first their blind nut hugging love for him or two they just don't want to see it.

 

[Lloyd]

Bill Cowher, 15 seasons 9 assistants get promoted to head coaching jobs, Mike Tomlin 18 seasons and not one assistant promoted to a head coaching job. Nobody sees the fricken problem here??

If people can not see that Tomlin is the problem there is only two explanations. first their blind nut hugging love for him or two they just don't want to see it.

It is quite compelling, 9 assistants to head coaching jobs vs zero for Tomlin. It's also an indictment on Tomlin's outdated systems he runs. No one is saying "We better get that coach who runs that modern, up-to-date systems Tomlin is running in Pgh." No one wants his outdated, crap systems he's running.

 

[SteelerFan448]

I've alway disliked the coaching tree criticism for a few reasons. First off, who cares? Do you want an assistant coach going to another organization and have success?

Having a coaching tree means either 1. a coordinator has an innovative system that dominates the NFL 2. a coordinator helps a unit overachieve or elevates QB play or 3. a team is making deep playoff runs and the rest of the NFL wants to replicate that success. The Steelers really haven't done any of that living right on the edge of the playoffs for far too long.

 

[stillwright]

Having a coaching tree means either 1. a coordinator has an innovative system that dominates the NFL 2. a coordinator helps a unit overachieve or elevates QB play or 3. a team is making deep playoff runs and the rest of the NFL wants to replicate that success. The Steelers really haven't done any of that living right on the edge of the playoffs for far too long.

Yep. Not since all of the carry-over players and coaches have left.

 

[BLITZ]

Yep. Not since all of the carry-over players and coaches have left.

Ben yes. But AB,Bell, and several other stars were drafted by Tomlin

 

[stillwright]

Ben yes. But AB,Bell, and several other stars were drafted by Tomlin

And what did we win with them again? You can argue that was when our team culture took a turn for the worse.

 

[BLITZ]

And what did we win with them again? You can argue that was when our team culture took a turn for the worse.

The culture began to change when cowher left. It just took awhile to show.
But Tomlin had a chance. He helped put together a great offense team. Ben,bell and brown for a few years was the best in the biz.
One of his problems was his team peaked during the pats dominance.

 

[jiminoh]

The culture began to change when cowher left. It just took awhile to show.
But Tomlin had a chance. He helped put together a great offense team. Ben,bell and brown for a few years was the best in the biz.
One of his problems was his team peaked during the pats dominance.

Good points....and hard to argue.

And not aimed at you, but there's just so much dumbassery at times for inexplicable reasons. Some games are well-played and fun to watch, even if they result in a loss. I don't like it, but those can happen to any team. But stupid decisions and poor game planning leave me wondering WTF just happened - especially to the 2-win teams.

We'll see what happens with the Bungles, but I have a feeling they're gonna bring it, so I hope Tomlin is ready. Fortunately they Bungle themselves a lot.

 

[diver]

Having a coaching tree means either 1. a coordinator has an innovative system that dominates the NFL 2. a coordinator helps a unit overachieve or elevates QB play or 3. a team is making deep playoff runs and the rest of the NFL wants to replicate that success. The Steelers really haven't done any of that living right on the edge of the playoffs for far too long.

Yeah...I don't disagree with that, but I just don't get worked up over coaching trees. I'm not gonna make the criticism, because as I said, I do not really want to see an assistant coach have success elsewhere. Like when a player leaves.

Another thing, the Steelers dominated the NFL from 1972 to 1980. They didn't have one coach who would have fallen under your 3 requirements I suppose, because none of them got hired for head jobs.

But I can't get beyond the fact that some of the greatest coaches of all time had very little trees. Lombardi's and Belechick's, for example, were/have been no good. It leads me to the conclusion that you have to be your own man and at the end of the day, the influence from the coach you were coaching under shouldn't be that much. Players will see through it if you aren't your own man and you will fail. The guy coaching the Steelers before Noll was a guy named Bill Austin, a Lombardi guy. He was a colossal failure, and if you read "Three Bricks Shy of a Load," all the players said he tried to be Lombardi without the body of work. It seems like that defines all the guys who got head jo9bs who were assistants of Belechick.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Another thing, the Steelers dominated the NFL from 1972 to 1980. They didn't have one coach who would have fallen under your 3 requirements I suppose, because none of them got hired for head jobs.

I wasn't born yet to watch that era, but I get the feeling things were a bit different pre-free agency. If we need to go all the way back to the 1970s versus how coaching hires operate today...

Tomlin's recent hire not only didn't get head coach consideration, but they aren't even employed in the NFL with Fichtner and Canada. Smith was at least a qualified candidate and Austin will get another job, but he didn't have a great track record.

 

[stillwright]

The culture began to change when cowher left. It just took awhile to show.
But Tomlin had a chance. He helped put together a great offense team. Ben,bell and brown for a few years was the best in the biz.
One of his problems was his team peaked during the pats dominance.

The Ben AB and Bell always seemed to under achieve. You can probably point to coaching for this. It happened year after year after year.

After year!!!


I know. Coaching has zero to do with it.

 

[BLITZ]

The Ben AB and Bell always seemed to under achieve. You can probably point to coaching for this. It happened year after year after year.

After year!!!


I know. Coaching has zero to do with it.

You can definitely look at coaching.
But again, timing for him was bad. Going up against Peyton and Brady with their coaches had to have sucked.
Tomlin has never been a great coach, but he put some teams together that could have won it all.

 

[Gildong Sack]

nother tomlin piece, actually worth reading.

It's not a fire tomlin but, more of a reasoning by using good criteria.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/the-mike-tomlin-problem/ar-AA1wADA7?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=08cc376f1d6b4f409f53547ecd5bcf62&ei=9

Salute the nation

This says it all:

Tomlin is a good coach, but he’s also stuck in his ways, not showing the ability to evolve, and consistently collapses at the most important part of the year. And in doing so, while he raises the floor of the Steelers, he also lowers the ceiling which has kept Pittsburgh trapped in purgatory. And while just about every mainstream radio or TV personality will bang their table and say that some another team would hire Tomlin right away if he and the Steelers ever parted ways, frankly who cares? The 49ers moved on from Jim Harbaugh, stumbled through a couple bad head coaches before landing on Kyle Shanahan and have been to two Super Bowls and are constantly in the NFC Championship Game. And even though attrition finally set in for them this season with injuries, I’m sure fans would trade constant 9 and 10-win seasons for the superb highs of Super Bowl appearances if it means the occasional seven-win season.


Would Tomlin team like the Bears and make them relevant? Almost certainly. And that’s terrific. But that hard ceiling would eventually hit, and those fans would then be having the same conversation we’re having now - craving something different and begging for deep playoff runs rather than being told to be grateful for mediocrity.

The comparison in that article(really they don't compare) to Cowher is also enlightening. Cowher was/is 100x the coach Tomlin is.

I've said it a million times and I'll make it a million and one:

Bill Cowher took Neil O'Donnell journeyman QB to a Super Bowl with average wide receivers( don't flame me Thigpen,Mills,Hastings fans) and almost won it against a cowboys dynasty team. Now imagine Tomlin doing something like that......it is literally LOL laughable.

He couldn't win jack with Ben,AB, and LeVeon......enough said.

 

[KentuckySteeler]

This says it all:

Tomlin is a good coach, but he’s also stuck in his ways, not showing the ability to evolve, and consistently collapses at the most important part of the year. And in doing so, while he raises the floor of the Steelers, he also lowers the ceiling which has kept Pittsburgh trapped in purgatory. And while just about every mainstream radio or TV personality will bang their table and say that some another team would hire Tomlin right away if he and the Steelers ever parted ways, frankly who cares? The 49ers moved on from Jim Harbaugh, stumbled through a couple bad head coaches before landing on Kyle Shanahan and have been to two Super Bowls and are constantly in the NFC Championship Game. And even though attrition finally set in for them this season with injuries, I’m sure fans would trade constant 9 and 10-win seasons for the superb highs of Super Bowl appearances if it means the occasional seven-win season.


Would Tomlin team like the Bears and make them relevant? Almost certainly. And that’s terrific. But that hard ceiling would eventually hit, and those fans would then be having the same conversation we’re having now - craving something different and begging for deep playoff runs rather than being told to be grateful for mediocrity.

The comparison in that article(really they don't compare) to Cowher is also enlightening. Cowher was/is 100x the coach Tomlin is.

I've said it a million times and I'll make it a million and one:

Bill Cowher took Neil O'Donnell journeyman QB to a Super Bowl with average wide receivers( don't flame me Thigpen,Mills,Hastings fans) and almost won it against a cowboys dynasty team. Now imagine Tomlin doing something like that......it is literally LOL laughable.

He couldn't win jack with Ben,AB, and LeVeon......enough said.

There are several here that think if you don't like Tomlin you must be racist. They'll never blame him for anything. Also, outsiders hate the Steelers and love him here because they know we are a paper Tiger. Just disgraceful what this clown has done to this franchse.

 

[stillwright]

You can definitely look at coaching.
But again, timing for him was bad. Going up against Peyton and Brady with their coaches had to have sucked.
Tomlin has never been a great coach, but he put some teams together that could have won it all.

Sometimes...and I know you seem to not like to concede the fact.....coaching is the difference when 2 teams face off.

 

[BLITZ]

Sometimes...and I know you seem to not like to concede the fact.....coaching is the difference when 2 teams face off.

Coaching is a huge part of it. no question no doubt. to me that is a fact. I am on record many times to say the Steelers need a change at HC. But I will cheer for the Steelers even if he is the HC.
I think you are the same. some of our other members seem to be excited when the Steelers lose. their hate for Tomlin exceeds their love for the Steelers. that is weird to me.

 

[stillwright]

Coaching is a huge part of it. no question no doubt. to me that is a fact. I am on record many times to say the Steelers need a change at HC. But I will cheer for the Steelers even if he is the HC.
I think you are the same. some of our other members seem to be excited when the Steelers lose. their hate for Tomlin exceeds their love for the Steelers. that is weird to me.

Every passing season...with zero change...it is hard to root for Tomlin. Early in the season it seemed Tomlin changed up on the offensive side and defensive side of the ball. I completely supported that. Backed that. As the season progressed...he reverted back to his same old same old. Our D looks putrid. Same with our O...right before the playoffs to boot. If Tomlin can't learn from his mistakes over the course of his career by now.....then it might be long over due for a change. Of course Rooney might not see it that way. It is what it is.

 

[BLITZ]

Every passing season...with zero change...it is hard to root for Tomlin. Early in the season it seemed Tomlin changed up on the offensive side and defensive side of the ball. I completely supported that. Backed that. As the season progressed...he reverted back to his same old same old. Our D looks putrid. Same with our O...right before the playoffs to boot. If Tomlin can't learn from his mistakes over the course of his career by now.....then it might be long over due for a change. Of course Rooney might not see it that way. It is what it is.

agreed on everything you said. But I bet you will be rooting for them next Sunday. I know I will. some of our friends on here I am guessing will not be.

 

[stillwright]

agreed on everything you said. But I bet you will be rooting for them next Sunday. I know I will. some of our friends on here I am guessing will not be.

Yep. I will always root for a win. Just tired of seeing the same old same old.. Win or lose... Are you happy with the same old same old?

 

[BLITZ]

Yep. I will always root for a win. Just tired of seeing the same old same old.. Win or lose... Are you happy with the same old same old?

I think you know I am not.

 

[Confluence]

Ben yes. But AB,Bell, and several other stars were drafted by Tomlin

And the list of playoff success is non-existent.

It's kinda simple.