We are being badly misled about the Ukraine-Russia war

[Confluence]

President Joe Biden has given permission to Ukraine to strike inside Russian territory with American munitions, though he has restricted their use so Kyiv can only hit targets over the border close to Kharkiv after Russia made significant advances around the city in the northeastern part of the country close to the Russian border, two US officials told CNN.

“The president recently directed his team to ensure that Ukraine is able to use US supplied-weapons for counterfire purposes in Kharkiv so Ukraine can hit back at Russian forces hitting them or preparing to hit them,” one of the officials said.

As long as 10% goes to the Big Guy!!

 

[Steeltime]

President Joe Biden has given permission to Ukraine to strike inside Russian territory with American munitions, though he has restricted their use so Kyiv can only hit targets over the border close to Kharkiv after Russia made significant advances around the city in the northeastern part of the country close to the Russian border, two US officials told CNN.

“The president recently directed his team to ensure that Ukraine is able to use US supplied-weapons for counterfire purposes in Kharkiv so Ukraine can hit back at Russian forces hitting them or preparing to hit them,” one of the officials said.

So I guess the United States should have no qualms about Russia giving missiles to be directed at the United States to Cuba, right?

Wait, didn't that result in a pretty strong protest by the United States some years back?

 

[Confluence]

So I guess the United States should have no qualms about Russia giving missiles to be directed at the United States to Cuba, right?

Wait, didn't that result in a pretty strong protest by the United States some years back?

The hypocrisy of America's political leaders knows no bounds

 

[Punxsutawney]

President Joe Biden has given permission to Ukraine to strike inside Russian territory with American munitions, though he has restricted their use so Kyiv can only hit targets over the border close to Kharkiv after Russia made significant advances around the city in the northeastern part of the country close to the Russian border, two US officials told CNN.

“The president recently directed his team to ensure that Ukraine is able to use US supplied-weapons for counterfire purposes in Kharkiv so Ukraine can hit back at Russian forces hitting them or preparing to hit them,” one of the officials said.

Not really sure if this is a good idea, but if the strikes are limited to Russian military positions near the border it probably will not be much of an escalation, at least not something Russia would declare war on US/NATO over.

They just need to be really cautious about what they strike and how deep they go.

This isn't a decision that is being taken lightly, but with the Russians expanding the front further north, the rear of their ground attacks are now in actual Russian territory as opposed to the occupied parts of Ukraine.

If the Ukrainians want to be able to prevent the Russians from advancing deeper into Kharkiv, they need at least "some" capability to precisely strike Russian forces across the border with higher yield weapons.

Otherwise, there is nothing to really prevent the Russians from accumulating a critical mass of troops directly across the border and overwhelming the Ukrainians in the north.

 

[Sarge]

The Ukrainians were already hitting targets in Russia with US made HIMARS. Not really sure why it’s suddenly an issue. It’s war. Typical political nonsense. “Here’s these weapons to kill your enemy and save your country, but only if you use it in your own yard.” Kinda makes sense why we haven’t won a war since WWII.

 

[Punxsutawney]

The Ukrainians were already hitting targets in Russia with US made HIMARS.

They have? I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I'm not aware of it. I know they've been using drones, artillery and their Soviet era missiles for attacks into Russia.

They've have used HIMARS to strike Crimea, but that's technically still occupied territory, despite being annexed a decade ago.

Not really sure why it’s suddenly an issue. It’s war. Typical political nonsense. “Here’s these weapons to kill your enemy and save your country, but only if you use it in your own yard.” Kinda makes sense why we haven’t won a war since WWII.

Launching our missiles into Russia is a completely different ballgame from using them against Russian forces in Ukraine, especially considering it's not entirely clear whether Ukrainians are doing much of the targeting and operating of those systems. We apparently have a lot of "advisors" on the ground accompanying our more advanced systems.

The Russians could perceive it as an act of war by the US if enough damage is done on its territory.

Something like this would have been thought unthinkable during the Cold War.

 

[Punxsutawney]

So I guess the United States should have no qualms about Russia giving missiles to be directed at the United States to Cuba, right?

Wait, didn't that result in a pretty strong protest by the United States some years back?

There are some parallels, as we were trying to overthrow the Castro government, but the dynamics were a bit different, as we're currently talking about conventional missiles, not strategic-range nuclear ones.

 

[Stainless]

So I guess the United States should have no qualms about Russia giving missiles to be directed at the United States to Cuba, right?

Wait, didn't that result in a pretty strong protest by the United States some years back?

If we were actively invading Cuba, we might not have much ground to stand on.

 

[Confluence]

If we were actively invading Cuba, we might not have much ground to stand on.

Bahia des Cochinos?

 

[Stainless]

Bahia des Cochinos?

Are you suggesting we give Ukraine nukes? I'm not sure I would go that far.

 

[Steeltime]

Are you suggesting we give Ukraine nukes? I'm not sure I would go that far.

We did invade Cuba, Stainless. Oh, and the US already has troops in Ukraine.

According to the document, dated 23 March, the UK has the largest contingent of special forces in Ukraine (50), followed by fellow Nato states Latvia (17), France (15), the US (14) and the Netherlands (1).

United States Special Forces in Ukraine

Oh, yeah, just give them long-range missiles to hit the Kremlin! I mean Biden said that "Putin has to go," so why not just use the wonderful Ukrainians - not corrupt at all, no siree, the model of arresting priests and canceling elections - to kill Russia's leaders? What could go wrong? Joltin' Joe, dementia patient and diaper user, always wanted to be a war hero so let's start an active war with Russia!

Spending hundreds of billions of our dollars to protect the most corrupt government on the European continent and risk escalating the war against the largest nuclear arsenal in the world is insanity, Stainless. The ****** Ukrainians can't win a conventional war against Russia, for **** sake.

 

[Confluence]

Are you suggesting we give Ukraine nukes? I'm not sure I would go that far.

I am telling you that the US invaded Cuba because of the threat of Russian missiles aimed at the US. The US/NATO has been doing to Russia that which is very similar to Russia arming Cuba, even after US/NATO promised not to do exactly that.

The Russian response in Crimea & Donbass has been more successful than the the US in the Bay of Pigs, probably because the Russians care for their own more than Americans cared for Cubans.

The American President promised to destroy the Russian Natural Gas pipelines to Europe.
Then it happened, under a 1000 feet of water.

The US has committed many acts of war vs Russia in the past 2 years.

It would be helpful if American citizens would Wake The Fuuck Up.

 

[Steeltime]

The United States has pushed NATO vastly beyond its origins and beyond any reasonable needed regions solely to try and cripple Russia. The US leadership has known for decades that pushing Ukraine to be a member of NATO was a red line, after promising Gorbachev and Yeltsin that it would NEVER move NATO any further east than Germany.

Released Documents Show U.S. Knew It Was Provoking War

 

[Steeltime]

Very informative interview of Jeffrey Sachs about Ukraine, Russia, the United States and NATO.

https://x.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1795500379578253729

 

[Punxsutawney]

I am telling you that the US invaded Cuba because of the threat of Russian missiles aimed at the US.

We invaded Cuba well before the Soviets attempted to put their missiles there.

Castro feeling threatened by the US is why he was receptive toward having Soviet missiles on his soil.

 

[xjx]

It's OK now. Chinese have equipment there.

 

[Punxsutawney]

The United States has pushed NATO vastly beyond its origins and beyond any reasonable needed regions solely to try and cripple Russia. The US leadership has known for decades that pushing Ukraine to be a member of NATO was a red line, after promising Gorbachev and Yeltsin that it would NEVER move NATO any further east than Germany.

Released Documents Show U.S. Knew It Was Provoking War

These countries all asked to join NATO for protection from Russia. It's not like we compelled them to do so.

Finland abandoned practically a century of neutrality to join because they were horrified by Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

The Russians have only themselves to blame for that one, as well as most of them, due to the way they treated eastern Europe during the Soviet era.

They invaded Hungary and Czechoslovakia for getting out of line, and have continued the tradition this century with Ukraine and Georgia.

 

[Steeltime]

These countries all asked to join NATO for protection from Russia. It's not like we compelled them to do so.

Finland abandoned practically a century of neutrality to join because they were horrified by Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

The Russians have only themselves to blame for that one, as well as most of them, due to the way they treated eastern Europe during the Soviet era.

They invaded Hungary and Czechoslovakia for getting out of line, and have continued the tradition this century with Ukraine and Georgia.

You are gobbling down the lies and the failed policies of the Neocons. Russia invaded Ukraine - their former province, and the areas of which they invaded have very large number of Russians - only AFTER the United States (1) propagated a coup of the Ukrainian government in 2014, (2) began arming Ukraine, (3) told Russia it would not guarantee Ukraine would not become a member of NATO, and (4) moron imbecile Kamala Harris said in January of 2022 that in fact Ukraine WOULD be admitted as a member of NATO.

You might want to take a look at a map and ask why the **** the organization is called NATO and why the organization still exists after Russia disbanded the Warsaw Pact. Seriously, what is the point of NATO other than to surround Russia with armed nations?

If China armed Mexico, Canada, and Cuba with massive amounts of weapon and put hundreds of thousands of Chinese troops on the Mexican and Canadian borders, you would be fine with that I guess.

 

[Punxsutawney]

You might want to take a look at a map and ask why the **** the organization is called NATO and why the organization still exists after Russia disbanded the Warsaw Pact. Seriously, what is the point of NATO other than to surround Russia with armed nations?

It exists because Russia has a history of imperialism in eastern Europe, and the countries of those regions seek protection from it.

Russia did not disband the Warsaw pact out of charity or goodwill. They did it because they lost the power struggle of the Cold War and were no longer strong enough to keep it together.

Whether cold or hot, losing wars has consequences, and Russia's loss of influence to the US in eastern Europe is part of that.

The war in Ukraine is more about resentment toward the US and attempting to restore Russian national pride and power in eastern Europe than anything else.

Somewhat like the Germans in the 1930s in response to losing WWI and the loss of territory, pride and power that resulted from it.

If China armed Mexico, Canada, and Cuba with massive amounts of weapon and put hundreds of thousands of Chinese troops on the Mexican and Canadian borders, you would be fine with that I guess.

We have nowhere near hundreds of thousands of troops near Russia's border. We've been cautious about our military presence in NATO countries because we know it would be a provocation for the Russians.

Until recently, we had the same approach toward the types of weapons we deploy in eastern Europe, but that has been changing since Russia's aggression in Ukraine.

We were offering no significant military support to Ukraine until the Russians starting annexing parts of it in 2014.

You like to peddle the Russian line that Yanukovych's ousting was a US coup, but he was not popular with many Ukrainians and he was playing with fire when he refused to sign the EU relations bill that the Ukrainian legislature had passed.

Play stupid games, get stupid prizes.

 

[Sarge]

They have? I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I'm not aware of it. I know they've been using drones, artillery and their Soviet era missiles for attacks into Russia.

They've have used HIMARS to strike Crimea, but that's technically still occupied territory, despite being annexed a decade ago.

You’re right. I misunderstood what I read. I apologize. Still, it’s a war. If you can hit them at home, all the better IMO.

 

[Confluence]

Very informative interview of Jeffrey Sachs about Ukraine, Russia, the United States and NATO.

https://x.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1795500379578253729

That greatly helps with perspective, from a respected left to very left economist/diplomat.

 

[Confluence]

It exists because Russia has a history of imperialism in eastern Europe, and the countries of those regions seek protection from it.

Russia did not disband the Warsaw pact out of charity or goodwill. They did it because they lost the power struggle of the Cold War and were no longer strong enough to keep it together.

Whether cold or hot, losing wars has consequences, and Russia's loss of influence to the US in eastern Europe is part of that.

The war in Ukraine is more about resentment toward the US and attempting to restore Russian national pride and power in eastern Europe than anything else.

Somewhat like the Germans in the 1930s in response to losing WWI and the loss of territory, pride and power that resulted from it.



We have nowhere near hundreds of thousands of troops near Russia's border. We've been cautious about our military presence in NATO countries because we know it would be a provocation for the Russians.

Until recently, we had the same approach toward the types of weapons we deploy in eastern Europe, but that has been changing since Russia's aggression in Ukraine.

We were offering no significant military support to Ukraine until the Russians starting annexing parts of it in 2014.

You like to peddle the Russian line that Yanukovych's ousting was a US coup, but he was not popular with many Ukrainians and he was playing with fire when he refused to sign the EU relations bill that the Ukrainian legislature had passed.

Play stupid games, get stupid prizes.

The bolded parts are just not true.

Just above your post, click on the conversation between Jeffrey Sachs and Carlson....mostly Sachs....from a position near the center of American diplomacy fir the past couple generations.

Please do not believe what you are being fed on network news

 

[Steeltime]

The bolded parts are just not true.

Just above your post, click on the conversation between Jeffrey Sachs and Carlson....mostly Sachs....from a position near the center of American diplomacy fir the past couple generations.

Please do not believe what you are being fed on network news

Truth. Anybody who believes the US media is anything other than a mouthpiece for the US government is living in a fantasy world.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

Sleepy: It’s fine.


CNN —
A group of Russian Navy ships, including a nuclear-powered submarine, arrived in Cuba on Wednesday morning in a sign of strengthening ties between the two Cold War allies.
Russian frigate Admiral Gorshkov – the first of a four-ship convoy – fired a 21-gun salute after entering Havana harbor, which was answered by the Cubans with cannon fire from an 18th-century colonial fort built by the Spanish to guard the port.

 

[JMM]

Sleepy: It’s fine.


CNN —
A group of Russian Navy ships, including a nuclear-powered submarine, arrived in Cuba on Wednesday morning in a sign of strengthening ties between the two Cold War allies.
Russian frigate Admiral Gorshkov – the first of a four-ship convoy – fired a 21-gun salute after entering Havana harbor, which was answered by the Cubans with cannon fire from an 18th-century colonial fort built by the Spanish to guard the port.

I was wondering when they'd play that hand.