You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SteelBuckeye again.
We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!
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we don't copy/paste around these parts, antdrew.
****.... Too many rules
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Idioteque
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We don't provide our own opinions, either.
We believe what NFL.com believes, period
We believe what NFL.com believes, period
awboatguy
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I thought we were a BTSC crowd. Damn it now I have to read that propaganda too.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Steelerfan again.
Fo' sheeeze!!!I have no idea what this thread is about- but I enjoy the 'back and forth'
awboatguy
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Out of the park with that one Bermuda! Lol!
Quote Originally Posted by SteelBuckeye View Post
As far as the video and the "somber" nature of the locker room, Kovacevic, who was actually in the locker room and therefore is not speculating/imagining/wishing had this to say:
http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2014...ffered-martin/
Now, I've been told that players will give politically correct statements just to avoid the appearance of dissension. Columnists however will at times go to extremes to manufacture that same appearance. Given this report, by someone who was actually IN the locker room following the game, I'd say all the hand wringing, wishing, speculating, etc. has been a lil off base. Maybe Tomlin ordered the players to act joyous for the writers eh? But, then for him to do so and them to actually follow the order ....
"• Joey Porter didn’t play hero in Nashville. I’m told he was instructed by Mike Tomlin to go retrieve the wayward LeGarrette Blount as he was bolting for the team bus. Porter was the logical choice for that task, and he did as asked.
Anything beyond that is narrative for the sake of narrative.
Also, the visiting locker room that night was a joyous place. The Steelers weren’t fussing about or at Blount in the slightest, even for the few minutes he sat at his stall following Porter’s retrieval. In fact, I saw Blount and a couple fellow backs smiling and laughing in there.
Blount’s gone, and that’s great. What he did was wrong. He was genuinely a bad seed. But man, no need to transform the actual event into some syrupy ABC after-school special."
In your original posts here is what was said and what was cited as reference material. No video someone else's statements that may have been based on information other than what was contained in the video. The video was there to be seen by any who wanted to.
I guess it comes down to your "lying eyes" or what some third party said about events you did not see. We made different choices. Your source also seems interested in discrediting his fellow journalists and their interpretation of the events involving Joey Porter, the guys that had a different take were from the trib and I believe that is what he is referring to as for narrative only.
As far as the video and the "somber" nature of the locker room, Kovacevic, who was actually in the locker room and therefore is not speculating/imagining/wishing had this to say:
http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2014...ffered-martin/
Now, I've been told that players will give politically correct statements just to avoid the appearance of dissension. Columnists however will at times go to extremes to manufacture that same appearance. Given this report, by someone who was actually IN the locker room following the game, I'd say all the hand wringing, wishing, speculating, etc. has been a lil off base. Maybe Tomlin ordered the players to act joyous for the writers eh? But, then for him to do so and them to actually follow the order ....
"• Joey Porter didn’t play hero in Nashville. I’m told he was instructed by Mike Tomlin to go retrieve the wayward LeGarrette Blount as he was bolting for the team bus. Porter was the logical choice for that task, and he did as asked.
Anything beyond that is narrative for the sake of narrative.
Also, the visiting locker room that night was a joyous place. The Steelers weren’t fussing about or at Blount in the slightest, even for the few minutes he sat at his stall following Porter’s retrieval. In fact, I saw Blount and a couple fellow backs smiling and laughing in there.
Blount’s gone, and that’s great. What he did was wrong. He was genuinely a bad seed. But man, no need to transform the actual event into some syrupy ABC after-school special."
In your original posts here is what was said and what was cited as reference material. No video someone else's statements that may have been based on information other than what was contained in the video. The video was there to be seen by any who wanted to.
I guess it comes down to your "lying eyes" or what some third party said about events you did not see. We made different choices. Your source also seems interested in discrediting his fellow journalists and their interpretation of the events involving Joey Porter, the guys that had a different take were from the trib and I believe that is what he is referring to as for narrative only.
One suggestion. One only. Reading comprehension classes. I believe if you take some, and then re-read what I've written, you'll see that I stated that the locker room was somber AT THE TIME THE VIDEO was taken. HOWEVER, that does not preclude the mood changing AT A LATER TIME that we were not privy to seeing.
You're either being incredibly dense and obtuse on purpose or you really do need some remedial reading classes. The third, and more likely explanation is that you refuse to see the point because it does not fit into your viewpoint. In any event, you're probably the only person on this board who can't see that the two points in time (during the video and another time not shown in the video) can exist along the same continuum.
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After the Tampa Bay game, I said I would fire Tomlin after the season and I don't change my decisions.
I still think there is some disfunctionality to the team. I still think we are not a good team mano-y-mano at too many spots.
Last off-season I finally went on record as saying I would have FIRED Kevin Colbert. I still believe that would have been the wisest move for this franchise moving forward. People always fail to acknowledge that after those 3 losing seasons by Cowher, heads did roll. The GM was replaced. Multiple coordinators were changed during that time frame. We haven't seen NEARLY as much turnover in Tomlin's regime as we did with Cowher in his "downturn".
The dilemma to me is how to proceed now with Colbert and Tomlin. I still believe a stronger GM presence would be better. I still believe Colbert is, at his root, a yes-man more comfortable working "under" someone and in the background than making the tough decisions. I worry Art Rooney II is not focused on the Steelers team and rather the Steelers/NFL brand and money making opportunities. I worry Art Rooney II is not getting the proper information of team-evaluation from Colbert and/or Tomlin (as both seemed pretty invested in each other at this point).
It is under this dynamic that I struggle to understand how to improve.
I don't know "who" is better (although with proper research I could propose some names to interview). But that's really not the point. The point is HOW do we get better. What are the "steps" to sustained success. Do we shake things up short-term to try and salvage the remaining "Roethlisberger" years. Do we make a change with the idea he/she would be better suited to transition AFTER Roethlisberger. Is the intent to go all out to win one more Super Bowl in the next 3 seasons. Is the intent to develop a franchise capable of winning multiple Super Bowls over the next decade?
I haven't really wrapped my head around all that. I think we are underachieving. I think Tomlin/Colbert has underachieved. I think the franchise's expectations are lower now than when they took over. I have statistical evidence of that.
Do we continue to "hope" Tomlin/Colbert have an overachieving season to get back to the mean, or do we think a change would improve things?
After this season, I don't know. I still have 5 more games to decide I guess.
I still think there is some disfunctionality to the team. I still think we are not a good team mano-y-mano at too many spots.
Last off-season I finally went on record as saying I would have FIRED Kevin Colbert. I still believe that would have been the wisest move for this franchise moving forward. People always fail to acknowledge that after those 3 losing seasons by Cowher, heads did roll. The GM was replaced. Multiple coordinators were changed during that time frame. We haven't seen NEARLY as much turnover in Tomlin's regime as we did with Cowher in his "downturn".
The dilemma to me is how to proceed now with Colbert and Tomlin. I still believe a stronger GM presence would be better. I still believe Colbert is, at his root, a yes-man more comfortable working "under" someone and in the background than making the tough decisions. I worry Art Rooney II is not focused on the Steelers team and rather the Steelers/NFL brand and money making opportunities. I worry Art Rooney II is not getting the proper information of team-evaluation from Colbert and/or Tomlin (as both seemed pretty invested in each other at this point).
It is under this dynamic that I struggle to understand how to improve.
I don't know "who" is better (although with proper research I could propose some names to interview). But that's really not the point. The point is HOW do we get better. What are the "steps" to sustained success. Do we shake things up short-term to try and salvage the remaining "Roethlisberger" years. Do we make a change with the idea he/she would be better suited to transition AFTER Roethlisberger. Is the intent to go all out to win one more Super Bowl in the next 3 seasons. Is the intent to develop a franchise capable of winning multiple Super Bowls over the next decade?
I haven't really wrapped my head around all that. I think we are underachieving. I think Tomlin/Colbert has underachieved. I think the franchise's expectations are lower now than when they took over. I have statistical evidence of that.
Do we continue to "hope" Tomlin/Colbert have an overachieving season to get back to the mean, or do we think a change would improve things?
After this season, I don't know. I still have 5 more games to decide I guess.
Bottom line is this, when our draft picks and free agent signings do well, then the coaches look good. When we miss, we miss bad, especially given the roster turnover we've seen from Super Bowl winning teams. We haven't been able to replace core players on the defense from those Super Bowl teams. The offense is better than where we were with some youth at WR. We are a few pieces away on defense but we need to figure out our two OLBs and upgrade the secondary big time. I think we are one solid draft away from having another Super Bowl quality defense. They did well to get Tuitt and McCullers this draft along with Shazier who hasn't been able to stay on the field. Jury is still out on Jarvis Jones and its hard to say what becomes of Worilds. Good chance he walks. That opens another hole.
It seems you have tried this tactic before, and in this thread, accusing a poster of not being able to follow your wit and attacking them when you then have to change your argument. Around post 753 with vader you were in a similar circle argument.
My post 753
The video showed some things that were initially a bit bothersome. It really appeared the players were not interested in any interaction with the coach at first look that looked like a bad sign at that time. After finding out what happened as the game was winding down it is possible to speculate that the subdued manner of the individuals in the video could have been for other reasons and not a dislike for their head coach. We are not privy to all the information regarding the team that members of the team are.
It would be easy to take a candid reaction from a small group of players and make a leap to a conclusion more so than an interview that has been rehearsed and prepared so as to be non offensive not divulging anything that another team could use as either bulletin board material or actual game planning help. In this case however when more information about recent events came to light one could assume that topic of focus was not the HC and entourage walking into the room but a previous topic being discussed amongst themselves.
Your post 791
As far as the video and the "somber" nature of the locker room, Kovacevic, who was actually in the locker room and therefore is not speculating/imagining/wishing had this to say:
Also, the visiting locker room that night was a joyous place. The Steelers weren’t fussing about or at Blount in the slightest, even for the few minutes he sat at his stall following Porter’s retrieval. In fact, I saw Blount and a couple fellow backs smiling and laughing in there.
http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2014...ffered-martin/
Now, I've been told that players will give politically correct statements just to avoid the appearance of dissension. Columnists however will at times go to extremes to manufacture that same appearance. Given this report, by someone who was actually IN the locker room following the game, I'd say all the hand wringing, wishing, speculating, etc. has been a lil off base. Maybe Tomlin ordered the players to act joyous for the writers eh? But, then for him to do so and them to actually follow the order ....
your next post 797
"Big deal there is time ...." Time for what exactly?
The Dejan Kovacevic guy? Oh, you mean the award winning Pittsburgh sports columnist ... Yeah, he'd have a reason to lie about what he saw. And of course that 20 seconds of video that we saw gave a COMPLETE picture of what was going on in the locker room for the whole time it took for the players to undress, shower and get on the bus. I don't see though where Kovacevic claims that opposite or that what you saw was not what you saw. Just that that you didn't see the complete picture.
And of course we've determined there may have been other reasons for the "mood" in the 20 second video.
my post 799
How about time of day as in when was the video shot vs when was he there, it would be easy to have different moods at different times during the day. But if you wish to think what you saw was joyous by all means go ahead, it is probably much easier to do that after an award winning columnist tells you that's what was going on. I believe there were lots of award winning columnists involved in claiming that Dewey beat Truman in the presidential elections as well, but you can google that to find out how it turned out if you don't know.
your post at 800
Here we go with another one of those guys who wants you to debate with them based upon what they want to feel you wrote. Please show me where I stated that what I saw "joyous". As a matter of fact, what I stated, was that the mood in the room could have easily changed. I then provided a link to an article written by a reporter who was actually IN the locker room where he states the mood was joyful, indicating that the somber mood we saw did change.
As far as it being easier to believe what a columnist writes in his story. YES, it is easier to believe him because ... well ... he was actually THERE. It's not a hard concept to understand is it? I mean he was present in the locker room .. you were not. Given the option to believe the take on the atmosphere provided by you, who was not there, and someone who actually was there, I think I'll go with the person who actually saw what happened. The credentials just happen to add a little validity to his statement.
I mean if we take your viewpoint, what's the sense in reading any of the columnists, reports etc.? We could all just pop on here and get our information from Wingman's imagination. Ludicrous.
mine at 808
Quote Originally Posted by SteelBuckeye View Post
As far as the video and the "somber" nature of the locker room, Kovacevic, who was actually in the locker room and therefore is not speculating/imagining/wishing had this to say:
http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2014...ffered-martin/
Now, I've been told that players will give politically correct statements just to avoid the appearance of dissension. Columnists however will at times go to extremes to manufacture that same appearance. Given this report, by someone who was actually IN the locker room following the game, I'd say all the hand wringing, wishing, speculating, etc. has been a lil off base. Maybe Tomlin ordered the players to act joyous for the writers eh? But, then for him to do so and them to actually follow the order ....
"• Joey Porter didn’t play hero in Nashville. I’m told he was instructed by Mike Tomlin to go retrieve the wayward LeGarrette Blount as he was bolting for the team bus. Porter was the logical choice for that task, and he did as asked.
Anything beyond that is narrative for the sake of narrative.
Also, the visiting locker room that night was a joyous place. The Steelers weren’t fussing about or at Blount in the slightest, even for the few minutes he sat at his stall following Porter’s retrieval. In fact, I saw Blount and a couple fellow backs smiling and laughing in there.
Blount’s gone, and that’s great. What he did was wrong. He was genuinely a bad seed. But man, no need to transform the actual event into some syrupy ABC after-school special."
In your original posts here is what was said and what was cited as reference material. No video someone else's statements that may have been based on information other than what was contained in the video. The video was there to be seen by any who wanted to.
I guess it comes down to your "lying eyes" or what some third party said about events you did not see. We made different choices. Your source also seems interested in discrediting his fellow journalists and their interpretation of the events involving Joey Porter, the guys that had a different take were from the trib and I believe that is what he is referring to as for narrative only.
yours at 809
One suggestion. One only. Reading comprehension classes. I believe if you take some, and then re-read what I've written, you'll see that I stated that the locker room was somber AT THE TIME THE VIDEO was taken. HOWEVER, that does not preclude the mood changing AT A LATER TIME that we were not privy to seeing.
You're either being incredibly dense and obtuse on purpose or you really do need some remedial reading classes. The third, and more likely explanation is that you refuse to see the point because it does not fit into your viewpoint. In any event, you're probably the only person on this board who can't see that the two points in time (during the video and another time not shown in the video) can exist along the same continuum.
I would suggest that you take your own advise and follow the discussion from its origin. I have placed in front of you so it can be easily read comprehension is another issue. In one of your posts you mentioned different moods at different times. That was the point of my original post back around 753. Also the somber mood that was seen at the time of the video could be attributed to reasons other than displeasure with MT since we later learned of an incident that resulted in the removal of a player from the team that was likely still in play at the time of MT's entry into the locker room. There is a post of mine dealing with time that you also took exception to and then tried to paraphrase it later.
I am done trying to have an intelligent discussion with you, I hope you get your medication or substance abuse issues taken care of, all the best.
All of that and you still miss the point? This is too funny to be real.
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Despite all the expert evaluation of Tomlin he has the best record of any coach in Steeler history in his first 7 years and will have after his 8th. I find that hard to reconcile with him being a terrible mistake by the Rooney's or not ready for the job. If you want to compare him with Cowher give him another 8 years and even if he falls short he will be the 3rd best ever. I'm a fan-not a critic, mainly because I'm not close enough or knowledgeable enough to feel my criticism is valid. Pardon me if I feel the same about that of some others. It really is true that you never know what you got till it's gone-and personally I'd just as soon not find out.
This is what it boils down to. A lot of these players aren't the brightest guys you'll ever meet, but they're smart enough to know how to be politically correct.
I interviewed players in Latrobe for three years, and I can tell you that it is extremely rare to hear a discouraging spoken word about another player, let alone a coach. What you get is vague, pat answers -- whitewashed versions of people and events of which we've heard derivations a thousand times before. Younger dudes were apt to describe their feelings in a bit more detail, but the veterans always gave the well-rehearsed responses.
Even after a vicious training camp scuffle, one of the involved parties gave me the old "heat of the battle" remark. It's just what they do.
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I have to agree with you about stupid *** moves by head coaches. I've been critical of Tomlin for not hurrying up his offense in the third/early fourth quarter when trailing by three scores. Sean Payton (a guy I thought was a pretty good in-game coach) did the exact same thing against the Bengals last week. They get the ball with 11 and a half minutes left, down 27-10. The Saints take their good old time, averaging about 30 seconds between plays, running the ball once, throwing short passes. They blow a timeout, after an incomplete pass. They finally end up with a 4th-and-12 on their own 45, and after taking almost 4 minutes off the clock themselves...THEY PUNT THE BALL AWAY. With less than 8 minutes left in regulation. So, Cincinnati of course runs off another 4 minutes, and by the time the Saints get possession again, the game is essentially over. Horrendous management by a Super Bowl winning head coach. Maybe one day I'll understand why these guys are being paid millions and millions of dollars to make these types of decisions.
As far as the Harbaugh choice to sneak it (personally, I would've kicked the field goal), you know that if it was Tomlin making that decision, his nut-huggers would have been out in full force, saying how wonderful it was to have a coach who goes for the win, whether it was a sneak, a run up the middle, or a double-reverse.
He is also the only coach that took over a team that was mostly intact one season removed from wining the super bowl with most of the players still very good. Your point is well taken but more than just the win loss record needs to be examined as there are many differences that are significant between him and others both with the individuals and the situations they were in when they took over.
Seifert took over a 49ers squad that had just won the Super Bowl and Switzer took over a Cowboys squad just one year removed from winning a Super Bowl.
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Do you feel the same way about politics, movies, etc.? Or just football?
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Idioteque
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Not all of us just swallow down whatever's ejaculated in a press conference or CBS Football Today!! interview..
Neither of which coached the steelers which was the comment in discussion.
Oh, you must mean the comment before your comment (Obx's). I see. When you said he was "the only", I thought you meant in the history of the NFL. Thanks for the clarification.
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Basically yes. Do you feel infallible about everything or just football?
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Infallible huh? Where do you get that?
The only times I feel infallible are when I watch coach interviews. Then I get the REAL story!
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Lol, so lets say you and a friend just left the theater after watching some mind dump of a movie, with some godawful actors/actresses in it. Your buddy says, "My God that was awful! What was your impression of the movie?" Are you going to honestly say, "wellllll, ya see, I'm a fan and not a critic; I dont know the intent of the director or producers well enough to make an informed judgement, so yeaaaah, i cant tell you that...."
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