We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[bermudasteel]

So the point of constantly boasting about 8-8 seasons is, "Our team isn't an abysmal failure!"

That's the point behind the bi-daily mentions of Tomlin's 8-8 seasons? That's the defense of Tomlin's coaching.

Awesome! HE'S NOT AN ABYSMAL FAILURE!!!!!

You need a vaginal irrigation...

 

[Steel G]

In Chuck Noll's first 11 years as head coach he won 4 Super Bowls, in his last 12 years we won zero and rarely made
the playoffs.

He still managed 4 playoff seasons, two playoff wins, an AFC Championship appearance and won his only coach of the year award in those 12 years. Contrast those 12 years with a guy like, say, Marvin Lewis, 11 completed seasons, 5 playoff appearances and not one win.

 

[Idioteque]

..............

Your best contribution to date.

Mainly because you didn't post anything.

 

[bermudasteel]

Even with a franchise QB and several All-Pros? Three 8-8 seasons in six years are perfectly acceptable?

Again, we just have differences in expectations. I think we're capable of more. You believe whatever the Steelers do is The Standard.

Sub-par or not???


1980 Pittsburgh Steelers season


Head coach
Chuck Noll

General manager
Dick Haley

Owner
Art Rooney

Home field
Three Rivers Stadium

Results


Record
9–7

Division place
3rd in AFC Central

Playoff finish
did not qualify

Pro Bowlers


5[show]







AP All-Pros


3[show]





Team MVP
Donnie Shell



1981 Pittsburgh Steelers season


Head coach
Chuck Noll

General manager
Dick Haley

Owner
Art Rooney

Home field
Three Rivers Stadium

Results


Record
8–8

Division place
2nd in AFC Central

Playoff finish
did not qualify

Pro Bowlers
CB Mel Blount
LB Jack Lambert
S Donnie Shell
C Mike Webster

AP All-Pros
Mel Blount (1st team)
Jack Lambert (1st team)
Mike Webster (1st team)
Donnie Shell (2nd team)

Team MVP
Jack Lambert



1985 Pittsburgh Steelers season


Head coach
Chuck Noll

General manager
Dick Haley

Owner
Art Rooney

Home field
Three Rivers Stadium

Results


Record
7–9

Division place
2nd in AFC Central

Playoff finish
did not qualify

Pro Bowlers
PK Gary Anderson
WR Louis Lipps
LB Mike Merriweather
C Mike Webster

AP All-Pros
Louis Lipps (2nd team)

Team MVP
Louis Lipps

Team ROY
Harry Newsome



1986 Pittsburgh Steelers season


Head coach
Chuck Noll

General manager
Dick Haley

Owner
Art Rooney

Home field
Three Rivers Stadium

Results


Record
6–10

Division place
3rd in AFC Central

Playoff finish
did not qualify

Pro Bowlers
RB Earnest Jackson
LB Mike Merriweather

AP All-Pros
none

Team MVP
Bryan Hinkle

Team ROY
Anthony Henton



1988 Pittsburgh Steelers season


Head coach
Chuck Noll

General manager
Dick Haley

Owner
The Rooney Family

Home field
Three Rivers Stadium

Results


Record
5–11

Division place
4th in AFC Central

Playoff finish
did not qualify

Pro Bowlers
OT Tunch Ilkin

AP All-Pros
none

Team MVP
David Little
Rod Woodson

Team ROY
Warren Williams

 

[Idioteque]

Noll had already built the greatest core in history and won 4 titles with it.

So I find it hard to compare his teams' accomplishments to Tomlin's.

I can't believe I have to explain this to an adult.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Your best contribution to date.

Mainly because you didn't post anything.

You're so sweet thanks

 

[DBS1970]

In Coach Nolls last 12 years who was the franchise QB on his teams? In his first 11 he had a future Hall of Fame QB. Mr Tomlin has a franchise QB and a potential Hall of Fame QB and is way behind the curve. Lets remember that when making the comparisons.

 

[bermudasteel]

Noll had already built the greatest core in history and won 4 titles with it.

So I find it hard to compare his teams' accomplishments to Tomlin's.

I can't believe I have to explain this to an adult.

I like cotton candy!!!

 

[SCSteeler4life]

In Coach Nolls last 12 years who was the franchise QB on his teams? In his first 11 he had a future Hall of Fame QB. Mr Tomlin has a franchise QB and a potential Hall of Fame QB and is way behind the curve. Lets remember that when making the comparisons.

Noll must have forgot how to draft.

 

[blitzburghv5]

Just think if we had won against the two worst teams we faced that we lost to we would be tied with new england right now for the top seed.

I get more frustrated when i think of "what coulda/shoulda been". It angers me at failed opportunities...for example, the Miami snow game last year and Antonio steppin on the sideline... THAT CLOSE !!! We win that game, we dont have to worry about what KC does vs San Diego and we are in the postseason.

Yeah...a top seed would be our reality...but im not sure i want a top seed...id rather we get wildcard to be honest. Id wanna catch NE after a weeks rest and rusty, after we could earn a win and have momentum for that next round. At this point, i just wanna get in...after that, anything can happen.

 

[Superman]

Yeah, that is accurate. 8-8 seasons make my dick so hard, Viagra makers are trying to bottle it and I have to call the doctors after 4 hours. I'm sure Andrew, supe and Bermuda feel the same.

Oh, wait. Maybe we just don't consider an 8-8 season to be an abysmal failure? Can we feel that way without it being determined that we consider it a success? Might we determine that "Yeah, 8-8 ain't great, but it is what it is, here are some good things." Never mind, that is just dumb.

STEELERSUX!!

actually, it does mine too. i don't think we can call 8-8 a successful season, though, nor is it a disaster. it's filled with wouldas, shouldas and couldas. it's not "GREAT!!!!!!!" nor is it "TUrriBuel!!!!!" although there are likely different adjectives to describe a middle-ground.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Yeah, that is accurate. 8-8 seasons make my dick so hard, Viagra makers are trying to bottle it and I have to call the doctors after 4 hours. I'm sure Andrew, supe and Bermuda feel the same.

Oh, wait. Maybe we just don't consider an 8-8 season to be an abysmal failure? Can we feel that way without it being determined that we consider it a success? Might we determine that "Yeah, 8-8 ain't great, but it is what it is, here are some good things." Never mind, that is just dumb.

STEELERSUX!!

Quit being racist and hating on FBC.

 

[21STEELERS21]

There is some luck to coaching. Noll got back to back first round picks that became Hall of Famers and leaders of his
offense and defense. He also missed out on the salary cap and free agency era. Half the team would have been
gone after the second Super Bowl win if todays rules applied then.

In the new era teams actually need some bad years to draft players that can replace lost free agents and win Super Bowls.

 

[Idioteque]

actually, it does mine too. i don't think we can call 8-8 a successful season, though, nor is it a disaster. it's filled with wouldas, shouldas and couldas. it's not "GREAT!!!!!!!" nor is it "TUrriBuel!!!!!" although there are likely different adjectives to describe a middle-ground.

Of course. But those 8-8 seasons get bandied around like some badge of honor that proves Tomlin's coaching skill. Seems everyday someone crows about how Tomlin's teams have never had a losing season, ignoring the fact he's missed the playoffs three times in seven years.

IMO, when you have a HOF QB in his prime and the best DC ever, anything less than a playoff appearance is a disappointing season, whether we go 7-9 or manage to knock of the Browns in Week 17. To pump up three 8-8 non-playoff seasons as a positive is silly.

 

[ark steel]

I think it is silly that you even remotely think that is what we do, but I suppose you enjoy it or you wouldn't spend so much time whining about it.

 

[Steel G]

In Coach Nolls last 12 years who was the franchise QB on his teams? In his first 11 he had a future Hall of Fame QB. Mr Tomlin has a franchise QB and a potential Hall of Fame QB and is way behind the curve. Lets remember that when making the comparisons.

One negative for Noll, he passed on Marino in '83 after he fell right to him. Imagine if the '84 team was playing with Marino in that Championship game instead of against him. Though, maybe if their records are better because of that in '85 and '86, then in '87 the Steelers might not have drafted Rod Woodson, Thomas Everett, Hardy Nickerson and Gregg Lloyd.

 

[Wingman]

In Chuck Noll's first 11 years as head coach he won 4 Super Bowls, in his last 12 years we won zero and rarely made
the playoffs. When do you think he became a bad coach?, I've always had a hard time pinning it down.

His team got old and did not have good replacements for some of them, one of the biggest factors is deciding that it was worth keeping Mark Malone and not drafting Dan Marino, hope that helps you pin down some of them.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

One negative for Noll, he passed on Marino in '83 after he fell right to him. Imagine if the '84 team was playing with Marino in that Championship game instead of against him. Though, maybe if their records are better because of that in '85 and '86, then in '87 the Steelers might not have drafted Rod Woodson, Thomas Everett, Hardy Nickerson and Gregg Lloyd.

That's an old argument but there are a few mitigating circumstances. I'm old and remember that stuff.
1. It was felt that Bradshaw had a couple years left but he never recovered from an elbow injury in his throwing arm.
2. Marino's senior season at Pitt wasn't all that good so there was some doubt if he was the real deal. A lot of teams passed on him in the first round.
3. There were rumors that Marino was doing a lot of coke at the time. I don't know if that's true or not.
4. If Gabe Rivera had worked out and become the next Joe Greene instead of getting drunk and paralyzed in a single car crash on Babcock Blvd., we're not worrying so much about not taking Marino.

[/OT]

 

[topseed]

I'm on record after the Tampa Bay game that it's over for me and Tomlin.

It really just comes down to the simple conclusion this team the last three seasons just isn't as good as the first three seasons he took over. Every conceivable neutral criteria to judge "expectations" points to a clear FACT that this team has less expectations now than in did in 2007.

For those that still argue Tomlin "took over" an 8-8 team how do you reconcile the fact we were FAVORITES in 15 of 16 games in 2007? That included some incredibly lopsided ones as well (9+ points favorites five times). Truly average teams are not treated that way by the betting public (or by Vegas).

The truth is Tomlin took over a team bordering on a potential dynasty. It had the youngest quarterback ever to win a Super Bowl at age 25. There was a wealth of experience on his coaching staff. There was still PLENTY of young talent on the team. Heath Miller was 25, Polamalu was 26, Holmes was 23, Parker was 27.

There are no comparisons to his situation because NO COACH in history was given the talent he was given at the age he was given it in Roethlisberger. Never. Comparing Tomlin to Cowher, Seifert, Madden, Gruden, Switzer or whoever is pointless and jibberish. It means nothing.

The fact remains over the past three years, this team has degraded into mediocrity. What was once a team that was looked at as heavy favorites vs. the dregs of the league is now treated as average. Remember those FIVE games favored by 9+ points in his first year? Since 2012 we've only been 9+ point favorites THREE TIMES. And two of those were meaningless games the final week of the season vs. Cleveland (both in 2012 and 2013).

There are excusable reasons for teams dropping from good to mediocre, those being either the loss of a franchise quarterback, the rape of talent via the salary cap (or the institution of the salary cap) or the plundering of assistant coaches that end up being better than what they were thought. None of those situations or excuses apply to Tomlin. None.

The truth is there is only one reasonable explanation for our fall from Super Bowl contender year-in-year-out to mediocre and that is poor management and head coaching. That is the only reason logical and based on the facts presented. All the apologists can't change these facts. The idea the decline "had to happen" or "is cyclical and unavoidable" still then can't debate what Tomlin has ADDED to the franchise. If the cycle was unavoidable than why bother interviewing a head coach at all? Why bother to have standards? Why NOT change head coaches just for the sake of it?

The truth is no one EXPECTED this fall to happen. Only AFTER it happened did the excuses start to appear. The fall WAS avoidable with better management and coaching. That is a fact and if you don't believe that, than firing Tomlin shouldn't really matter anyhow.

This sums it up nicely. Good work from deljzc as usual.


Btw, I love how the Tomlin nut-hugging crew totally ignores the great substance of this post, and carries on by arguing with Idioteque about such important topics such as Chuck Noll's career path (which doesn't have anything to do with Tomlin), or how 8-8 is just plain NOT abysmal.

Classic.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Ron, as to #1 above, don't forget that they had taken Malone at 1:28 in the '80 draft. They thought for awhile that he was the heir apparent. Then it '81 or '82, they put him out at WR (the original "Slash") and he tore up his knee, missing the following season and screwing up his development as a QB. Yet, as I recall (was a young pup then) they still touted him as the QB in waiting.

 

[Omar10213245]

This sums it up nicely. Good work from deljzc as usual.


Btw, I love how the Tomlin nut-hugging crew totally ignores the great substance of this post, and carries on by arguing with Idioteque about such important topics such as Chuck Noll's career path (which doesn't have anything to do with Tomlin), or how 8-8 is just plain NOT abysmal.

Classic.

*Ahem!* They prefer to be called "ballchinians", Topseed!

 

[topseed]

I have my share of critcism for the coaching staff, but what fanbase doesnt. Fans are fickle.....emotional....give you an example....8 weeks ago Pats fans were callin for change w Belichek....the team lost its second game and was struggling..theyd traded Mankins and the Oline looked like ****...Brady struggled....fan base said the team stopped responding to the coach..coach was stubborn etc....then **** changed abruptly...Gronk came back into his own...the offense started clicking and now look at em.........

Good point about fickle fans and the Patriots, but you said it yourself: Look at them now...crushing other division leaders and now the favorite to win the Super Bowl at 4/1. Where are the Steelers? Getting gashed on defense by average or poor offensive teams, 18/1 just to win the AFC, and hoping and praying that Ike Taylor coming back is the answer.

 

[south dakota STEEL]

Not a Tomlin fan...don't think he's a good coach. He was given talent, his talent is slowly leaving, he needs to show me he has a clue.

coach em up!

 

[topseed]

*Ahem!* They prefer to be called "ballchinians", Topseed!

My bad, yo!

Back in the day, "living in Kordell's jock" was always a favorite of mine to describe his apologists.

 

[ark steel]

this sums it up nicely. Good work from deljzc as usual.


Btw, i love how the tomlin nut-hugging crew totally ignores the great substance of this post, and carries on by arguing with idioteque about such important topics such as chuck noll's career path (which doesn't have anything to do with tomlin), or how 8-8 is just plain not abysmal.

Classic.

tombert sux !!! Rahhhhr