We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[antdrewjosh]

Huh? Think slower, a lot of your thoughts are passing you by.



Yes, I completely forgot about the 2012 4th-rounder whom we cut without ever playing a down, and the 2014 7th-rounder who never plays. That indeed seems like a solid investment in arguably the most important position to a 3-4 defense. Suuuure sounds like Tomlin's sticking with the 3-4 after all.



So it has to be a Hampton-level player? LOL. "If you're not a multiple Pro Bowler, we don't want you! Gimme more Dri Archers!"

I'm sorry your non-Steeler football knowledge is so limited, but there have been numerous productive and even star-quality NTs taken over the last few years.

Star Lotuleli
Kawaan Short
Johnathan Hankins
Muhammad Wilkerson
Phil Taylor
Arthur Jones
B.J. Raji
Terrance Knighton

That's just from a quick search dating back to 2009. Besides.. the quality of the players isn't even the point here, is it? The point is that there have been no real EFFORTS to find a NT. That suggests a 4-3 team. And unless you think LeBeau suddenly began to prefer 4-3 defenders since EXACTLY 2007, then that suggests Tomlin's desire.

Why should i think slower? Your post basically applied that under Tomlin and him only the Steelers have attempted to take guys who played in a 4-3 and covert them. That this only started happening under him.

Oh here we go with the draft hindsight again. They are good and I knew they would be great!!! How many of those guys were availble when we picked? Who did we take instead? I know all those guys. Doesnt mean they were availble when we picked. Only one close off the top of my head was Star.

And once again who are these 4-3 defenders??? Who? It doesnt suggest anything. It suggests they like McClendon, they werent in postition to get some of the top guys who were high draft choices. The guys who were lower draft choices they either liked other guys or blew their evaluation just 31 other teams who didnt take those guys.

 

[Idioteque]

Why should i think slower? Your post basically applied that under Tomlin and him only the Steelers have attempted to take guys who played in a 4-3 and covert them. That this only started happening under him.

When did I say that? Which post?

Oh here we go with the draft hindsight again. They are good and I knew they would be great!!!

Goddamn you're a moron. Show me a post in which I said I thought any of those guys would be great. One?

How many of those guys were availble when we picked? Who did we take instead? I know all those guys.

I doubt you know any of them.

Doesnt mean they were availble when we picked. Only one close off the top of my head was Star.

But, wait - isn't it the JOB of the FO to evaluate and draft players? I mean, I know NOTHING about draft prospects because I don't work for the FO, right? And they DO know draft prospects inside and out, right? Why are they held to the same drafting standard I am?

But you can't even grasp my point here. The quality of the players isn't the issue. In fact, I'm not even knocking Tomlin for it. If he thinks a 3-4/4-3 hybrid is the better way to go, then he should pursue it. The point is that he's not made any real attempts to get a 3-4 NT. NTs are kinda important to a 3-4. So if a coach pledges his heart and soul to small, weak Steve McLendon as his "nose tackle" it seems crystal clear that he doesn't want to put together an actual 304.

And once again who are these 4-3 defenders??? Who? It doesnt suggest anything. It suggests they like McClendon, they werent in postition to get some of the top guys who were high draft choices.

Timmons, Woodley, Hood, McLendon, Worilds, Davis, Gibson off the top of my head. You could possibly include Heyward in there, too, as he played in a 4-3 in college.

The guys who were lower draft choices they either liked other guys or blew their evaluation just 31 other teams who didnt take those guys.

Is this English?

 

[Idioteque]

Exactly, I read the board on and off all year round. I post when I feel like it, regardless of wins or losses, in-season or off-season. I've stopped logging into the game threads, as all the Debbie Downers take the fun out of it. Just a bunch of ******* constantly bitching and whining. I purposefully like to call out the bullies on this board, that's why I give twats like Vader & Idioteque so much ****. Cause I feel they need to be knocked down a notch from time to time amidst all the hollering and calling out of posters new and old. You would think they own the place as brash and boisterous as they are.

Do you feel you accomplish this? Pretty warped world you live in.

The bullies. LOL. From you, that's ******* rich.

 

[antdrewjosh]

When did I say that? Which post?



Goddamn you're a moron. Show me a post in which I said I thought any of those guys would be great. One?



I doubt you know any of them.



But, wait - isn't it the JOB of the FO to evaluate and draft players? I mean, I know NOTHING about draft prospects because I don't work for the FO, right? And they DO know draft prospects inside and out, right? Why are they held to the same drafting standard I am?

But you can't even grasp my point here. The quality of the players isn't the issue. In fact, I'm not even knocking Tomlin for it. If he thinks a 3-4/4-3 hybrid is the better way to go, then he should pursue it. The point is that he's not made any real attempts to get a 3-4 NT. NTs are kinda important to a 3-4. So if a coach pledges his heart and soul to small, weak Steve McLendon as his "nose tackle" it seems crystal clear that he doesn't want to put together an actual 304.



Timmons, Woodley, Hood, McLendon, Worilds, Davis, Gibson off the top of my head. You could possibly include Heyward in there, too, as he played in a 4-3 in college.



Is this English?

There were definitely more. We've drafted a long list of 4-3 DEs to play OLB. Woodley, Davis, Gibson, Worilds. Guys who were widely considered 4-3 DEs only and expected to be kept there. (It would also make sense that this is the reason Tomlin preferred Timmons over Harrison at ROLB. Harrison's size/speed would be a trainwreck at DE, so Tomlin drafted Timmons to play there instead. That's just hypothesizing, of course, but it fits.)

So what does this mean?

Sorry to disappoint you I know them. Star I hoped fell to us. Wilkerson is from Linden NJ not far from where i live. Taylor plays for the damn Browns, Knighton for the Broncos. Hankins plays for the Giants. You're an idiot.

So basically because you dont like McClendon there hasnt been any effort? That about what it boils down to. You still havent proven he wants a 3-4 4-3 hybrid. Just speculate all you do. So if they played in a 4-3 in college that means Tomlin really wants to play 4-3??? Is that what you're saying?? Please tell me what position Casey Hampton played in college?

All those players(except Hood McClendon and Heyward) of those guys worked out at the combine or pro day as OLB for some teams. Why?

 

[Tibs]

Do you feel you accomplish this?

No, I feel like I accomplish nothing but that doesn't keep me from trying. Guys like yourself and Vader live in a perpetual cycle of doubt, denial and depression. I bet in the middle of July you're worrying yourselves sick about the long, cold winter around the bend. For you, there is a dark, dark cloud hanging over the Steelers. Tomlin sucks, the team sucks, everything sucks. I pity you guys, life must hold very little joy for you. It's a cold, dark, miserable place and Mike Tomlin - looking smug in his aviator shades - is the cause of most - if not all - of your misery.

 

[ark steel]

And a handful of other posters - like you, for example - relentlessly bash the posters who don't head-over-heels love the guy.

Weird. I feel the opposite happens. No idea why I would feel that way, though. I do have an active imagination. When you look like I do, you have to or you don't have a "sex life".

 

[Idioteque]

No, I feel like I accomplish nothing but that doesn't keep me from trying. Guys like yourself and Vader live in a perpetual cycle of doubt, denial and depression. I bet in the middle of July you're worrying yourselves sick about the long, cold winter around the bend. For you, there is a dark, dark cloud hanging over the Steelers. Tomlin sucks, the team sucks, everything sucks. I pity you guys, life must hold very little joy for you. It's a cold, dark, miserable place and Mike Tomlin - looking smug in his aviator shades - is the cause of most - if not all - of your misery.

Good God. You have derailed.

 

[Idioteque]

Sorry to disappoint you I know them. Star I hoped fell to us. Wilkerson is from Linden NJ not far from where i live. Taylor plays for the damn Browns, Knighton for the Broncos. Hankins plays for the Giants. You're an idiot.

My browser goes to Wikipedia, too. I would think that if you'd heard of those guys, you would have mentioned them when you said Star Lotuleli was the only good NT to be drafted lately.

So basically because you dont like McClendon there hasnt been any effort? That about what it boils down to. You still havent proven he wants a 3-4 4-3 hybrid. Just speculate all you do. So if they played in a 4-3 in college that means Tomlin really wants to play 4-3??? Is that what you're saying?? Please tell me what position Casey Hampton played in college?

Because McLendon isn't a 3-4 nose, as we can all see and have for several years. Speculate? Yeah, I guess you're right. A coach who made his name running a 4-3 Tampa-2 defense.. drafting almost exclusively 4-3 players for 8 years.. yeah, I don't see a connection there. You're right.

All those players(except Hood McClendon and Heyward) of those guys worked out at the combine or pro day as OLB for some teams. Why?

Because they were all hybrid prospects, obviously.

 

[antdrewjosh]

My browser goes to Wikipedia, too. I would think that if you'd heard of those guys, you would have mentioned them when you said Star Lotuleli was the only good NT to be drafted lately.



Because McLendon isn't a 3-4 nose, as we can all see and have for several years. Speculate? Yeah, I guess you're right. A coach who made his name running a 4-3 Tampa-2 defense.. drafting almost exclusively 4-3 players for 8 years.. yeah, I don't see a connection there. You're right.



Because they were all hybrid prospects, obviously.

Idiot i live in NJ. Hankins and Wilkerson play for the Giants and Jets. Wilkerson is from a city 25 minutes from where I live. Taylor plays for the Browns unlike you i see every Steelers game.. When i made that statement i was talking about the guys who were high draft choices. Not the guys taken lower who turnd out well that numerous other teams also passed over. Who the **** knew?? Thats like calling all the other teams dumb ***** for passing on Antonio Brown. Who knew?

So McClendon is the reason the run defense has slipped? Just him?

Exactly they were all hybrid prospects like you know who else? Joey Porter Jason Gildon Alonzo Jackson Janes Harrison and numerous other guys we have attempted to convert to OLB

 

[Idioteque]

Idiot i live in NJ. Hankins and Wilkerson play for the Gianrs and Jets. Wilkerson is from a city 25 minutes from wheri live. Taylor plays for the Browns unlike you i see every Steelers game.. When i made that statement i was talking about the guys who were high draft choices. Not the guys taken lower who turnd out well that numerous other teams also passed over.

Why don't they count? Were we not allowed to draft them or something?

Who the **** knew?? Thats like calling all the other teams dumb ***** for passing on Antonio Brown. Who knew?

So McClendon is the reason the run defense has slipped? Just him?

You just cannot understand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the quality of the defense or its players (though it's awful, of course). If we had 11 All-Pros, it wouldn't change my point: that since the magical point of 2007, we have clearly and obviously and undeniably and unquestionably shifted to drafting 4-3 type players. Anyone can see it. Anyone, that is, who isn't programmed to ***** and argue against anything I post like a reflex. It's as plain as day.

,Exactly they were all hybrid prospects like you know who else? Joey Porter jason Gildon Alonzo jackson Janes Harrison and numerous other guts we have attempted to convert to OLB

Why haven't you addressed the other positions in these posts? Timmons, Hood, McLendon, Heyward, etc.? Every 3-4 team drafts 4-3 DEs and tries them outside. As I said before, in our current case, it's merely a piece of the puzzle. Add our NUMEROUS 4-3 DE/OLB transition projects to the guys I just mentioned and you have a whole puzzle there.

 

[obxsteeler]

Sure we did, like most teams. But it's a piece of the puzzle, alongside the COMPLETE lack of a NT. Like I said, the backbone of the 3-4, we've completely and utterly ignored for 8 years now. Sure seems like a 4-3 thing to me.

I think we ignored it for a few of those years because we had a guy named Hampton. I can't remember any all pro types we passed on but maybe you can.

 

[Superman]

since antdrew quoted idiot...

Star was taken prior to us picking. Theoretically, we could have drafted him, and his heart problem, which I'm sure idiot is well aware of, if we had made a draft day trade with Carolina. Would the board be at all happy with us loading up to take Star? Probably not.

Kawaan Short. ANOTHER Panther? Looks like someone prefers a certain team. Anyway... Short is a pass-rushing DL. Isn't that what we already have enough of? Anyway, Short was taken in the 2nd of the 2013 draft...after we had taken Jarvis Jones. I recall us needing a OLB, but not specifically needing Jarvis Jones. I also recall a lot of us wanted Eifert. Another damned if we do and damned if we don't situation.

Although if we had traded up to get Star, we would have likely needed to use our 2nd on a different position...provided we retained it. Thus we'd not have Bell.

By trading up for Star, it could have completely changed the dynamics of that draft. So would you rather have Star and Short or Jones and Bell? Hands down, any combination that included Bell.

Jonathan Hankins is a DT. Obviously Coughlin doesn't understand he's got a man playing the incorrect position. Why, he should listen to Idiot. The wonderful, all knowing Idiot. And....speaking of Hankins...he was taken after we took Bell. Surely we should have taken him instead of Bell, right? Dipshit.

Muhammad Wilkerson - I will admit that I was hoping we'd have gotten him. But, once again, he was taken prior to our selection.

Phil Taylor. Goddamn. really? another guy listed by the all-wise all-knowing idiot who was taken PRIOR to our selection?

Arthur Jones. A 5th round selection. By then it's a crap-shoot. but, whatever. splitting hairs at this point.

B.J. Raji - taken 9th overall. We just won the Super Bowl. OBVIOUSLY anyone who knows their **** knows we had no chance at drafting Raji. I get the sense that Idiot is just pulling names out of a hat at this point.

Terrance Knighton - Jags pick in the 3rd round. We traded down for Urbik and Wallace. Jags deemed Knighton so worthy that he's now playing elsewhere.

at least TRY to know what you're talking about.

in 2009, we drafted Ra'Shon Harris. DT
in 2010, we drafted Doug Worthington, DT
in 2011, Cam Heyward
in 2012, Ta'amu
in 2013, Nick Williams
last draft, McCullers

so, it's obvious we are completely ignoring the DL.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

You nothing but a trolling little *****. You can't handle it so you're gone most of the time unless they win. What a little wet **** you are. This is why the board sucks so bad now. You and your ilk can't stand Tomlin's little feelings to get hurt so you have to blame DL for bad drafting. What a load of ****. But there aren't any posters who defend the honor of the noble Tomlin.. more bullshit. You, Sup, Ant, Ark, FAB, Steelbuckeye and Bermuda just off the top of my head defend him at all costs. But that's what you people do.. lie like a bunch of ******* when you don't get your way.

Hey man, I wasn't part of your little hissy fit until you made me a part of it just now by mentioning me "of the top of" your "head". I challenge you to go back through here and show where I stated that DL was at fault for bad drafting. You know you won't be able to because ... Again, I wasn't even part of this little tirade of yours. Paranoid much?
That's what has made this board suck so much now. YOU and people like YOU who go out of their way to mention other posters by name in a discussion in which that poster has not taken part. Seriously, what a DOUCHE move. If you have a problem with something I post, feel free to attack that post. But attacking people when they have not taken part in the discussion that you are attacking them in ... well it just shows what an *** you are at times.
Notice I didn't make any generalities. I am talking about YOU specifically because it is YOU who has brought me into your little bleeding ****, "Tomlin, Tomlin, TOMLIN" Brady Bunch hissy fit.
In short ... **** you.

 

[Idioteque]

since antdrew quoted idiot...

Star was taken prior to us picking. Theoretically, we could have drafted him, and his heart problem, which I'm sure idiot is well aware of, if we had made a draft day trade with Carolina. Would the board be at all happy with us loading up to take Star? Probably not.

Kawaan Short. ANOTHER Panther? Looks like someone prefers a certain team. Anyway... Short is a pass-rushing DL. Isn't that what we already have enough of? Anyway, Short was taken in the 2nd of the 2013 draft...after we had taken Jarvis Jones. I recall us needing a OLB, but not specifically needing Jarvis Jones. I also recall a lot of us wanted Eifert. Another damned if we do and damned if we don't situation.

Although if we had traded up to get Star, we would have likely needed to use our 2nd on a different position...provided we retained it. Thus we'd not have Bell.

By trading up for Star, it could have completely changed the dynamics of that draft. So would you rather have Star and Short or Jones and Bell? Hands down, any combination that included Bell.

Jonathan Hankins is a DT. Obviously Coughlin doesn't understand he's got a man playing the incorrect position. Why, he should listen to Idiot. The wonderful, all knowing Idiot. And....speaking of Hankins...he was taken after we took Bell. Surely we should have taken him instead of Bell, right? Dipshit.

Muhammad Wilkerson - I will admit that I was hoping we'd have gotten him. But, once again, he was taken prior to our selection.

Phil Taylor. Goddamn. really? another guy listed by the all-wise all-knowing idiot who was taken PRIOR to our selection?

Arthur Jones. A 5th round selection. By then it's a crap-shoot. but, whatever. splitting hairs at this point.

B.J. Raji - taken 9th overall. We just won the Super Bowl. OBVIOUSLY anyone who knows their **** knows we had no chance at drafting Raji. I get the sense that Idiot is just pulling names out of a hat at this point.

Terrance Knighton - Jags pick in the 3rd round. We traded down for Urbik and Wallace. Jags deemed Knighton so worthy that he's now playing elsewhere.

at least TRY to know what you're talking about.

in 2009, we drafted Ra'Shon Harris. DT
in 2010, we drafted Doug Worthington, DT
in 2011, Cam Heyward
in 2012, Ta'amu
in 2013, Nick Williams
last draft, McCullers

so, it's obvious we are completely ignoring the DL.

If only there were some way.. any way whatsoever.. that a team could conceivably MOVE UP in the draft? And pick higher than they were supposed to? Get on it, Rog!

I could not have been clearer - several times, in fact - that I'm talking about NOSE TACKLES, not merely d-lineman. (Casey Hampton and Aaron Smith were slightly different players, for example.) Yes, we drafted Cam Heyward and Sonny Harris to play NT. Both were drafted as DEs - and so were Worthington and Williams - but whatever.

You, also, cannot follow a discussion.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Supe WTF you know speculation trumps facts. Especially idiot speculation.

 

[Idioteque]

Supe WTF you know speculation trumps facts. Especially idiot speculation.

So you're also claiming Heyward was drafted to play NT? Figures. You rarely have an opinion that Supe doesn't give you first.

 

[antdrewjosh]

If only there were some way.. any way whatsoever.. that a team could conceivably MOVE UP in the draft? And pick higher than they were supposed to? Get on it, Rog!

I could not have been clearer - several times, in fact - that I'm talking about NOSE TACKLES, not merely d-lineman. (Casey Hampton and Aaron Smith were slightly different players, for example.) Yes, we drafted Cam Heyward and Sonny Harris to play NT. Both were drafted as DEs - and so were Worthington and Williams - but whatever.

You, also, cannot follow a discussion.

And neither played the positions they played as pros. Neither. Casey played DT in a 4-3. Aaron Smith played DE but not a 5 technique. What is your point again?

 

[Idioteque]

And neither played the positions they played as pros. Neither. Casey played DT in a 4-3. Aaron Smith played DE but not a 5 technique. What is your point again?

It's very clear; you've just struggled mightily in processing it.

 

[antdrewjosh]

So you're also claiming Heyward was drafted to play NT? Figures. You rarely have an opinion that Supe doesn't give you first.

Where did i say that. Heyward was always a end prospect

 

[antdrewjosh]

It's very clear; you've just struggled mightily in processing it.

No you just dont have one. None

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Not sure what any of those guys have to do with Tomlin. But even so, whoever drafted them balanced 'em out with numerous HOFers and All-Pros, so....

The post before that was indicating that Cowbert didn't make the type of misses that Tombert made. So I identified just a few of the higher picks Cowbert missed on. So, my post was not about TOMLIN, but rather about TOMBERT and COWBERT and specifically COLBERT'S being associated with misses during the COWBERT years. As it specifically addresses the post above it, my post is relevant to that post and not TOMLIN alone. Easily seen if one is not looking for a defense of TOMLIN in a critique of COLBERT.

 

[Superman]

Supe WTF you know speculation trumps facts. Especially idiot speculation.

move the goal posts, Charlie Brown

 

[Idioteque]

Where did i say that. Heyward was always a end prospect

You just agreed with Supe's "point" that drafting Heyward fits this discussion about NTs and proves what a dumbfuck I am.

While we're at it, though, I'm still waiting to be told when I (a) claimed Cowher never drafted 4-3 DEs, and (b) claimed I knew those DTs I listed would be great players.

 

[Idioteque]

The post before that was indicating that Cowbert didn't make the type of misses that Tombert made. So I identified just a few of the higher picks Cowbert missed on. So, my post was not about TOMLIN, but rather about TOMBERT and COWBERT and specifically COLBERT'S being associated with misses during the COWBERT years. As it specifically addresses the post above it, my post is relevant to that post and not TOMLIN alone. Easily seen if one is not looking for a defense of TOMLIN in a critique of COLBERT.

Misses are much more tolerable when you're drafting HOFers and All-Pros left and right. Cowher assembled a great core in the 90s, then assembled the league's best a few years later. So he gets leeway for Jamain Stephens and Zo Jackson. Tomlin doesn't get that leeway because he's drafted a very mediocre core and failed miserably at numerous positions.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

As usual, I see no defense of Tomlin's drafting beyond examples of Cowher's busts. (Conveniently, the names Roethlisberger, Polamalu, Ward, Faneca, and a few choice others aren't mentioned.)

Well, since the discussion was about BUSTS, I don't see the relevance in mentioning successes. So, it's not a matter of convenience, but rather a matter of sticking to the discussion point.