We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[Vader]

I've had this same discussion with Vader many times. I've been reading this board for many years, and I've always found it to be quite negative. The board goes crazy after a loss but crickets after a win. I suppose some of that is just the nature of fan-dom: if any of your are familiar with Dejan Kovacevic, he writes about the Steelers and was commenting the other day that far more people click on negative columns (i.e. the secondary is atrocious) than positive ones (Le'veon Bell is terrific).

Anyway, back to the board - I've found that posters that are very "rah-rah" tend to get run off quickly or reform because guys like Vader jump all over them. He's like a paranoid dictator who sees enemies everywhere even though he's already hanged them all. I appreciate Vader's knowledge and perspective but man does it get boring and annoying to the same points driven into the ground over and over and over again. That's why I almost never read or post on this board during the season --- there's plenty of good, objective info elsewhere that doesn't come with the same, repetitive negativity "but Tombert should have drafted someone else!".

Yea, just like TMC and dobre got ran off by my negative comments.. oh wait.. that was the circle jerk club that ran them off. And I never show up after wins.. oh wait.. I'm here all the time and can't find a post from you, Tibs or several others after a loss.

I guess you see what you want to see. What gets boring to me is people always trying to find someone else to blame. Now it's DL. He's the reason Tombert can't draft LOL... but yea, I'm negative.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Same guys who drafted Jarvis, Sweed, Hood, Worilds. Thad Gibson, and Bruce Davis

Remember Anthony Smith, Willie Reid, Fred Gibson, Ricardo Colclough, ALONZO "M'FING" JACKSON and a few others along the lines of Hank Poteat? Yeah, one of those guys was on board for drafting those guys too. Point being that as you are aware, the draft is not an exact science you miss some and you hit some big. Not all turn out to be stars or busts; some are just serviceable.

 

[FAB802]

It isn't all that difficult to understand that the coaches, front office, scouts, and even the ownership sometimes have input on the draft. No single person just says **** all of you, we are taking this guy regardless if he sucks ***/ doesn't fit what we do. On game days the coaches have their game plans and the players have to execute. The head coach oversees all the coaches, so when those plans are not working he is responsible for having them make adjustments. If they don't do so it's on him.

The head coach on every team in every sport gets the majority of the blame/criticism when teams lose, it's just the way it is. It was the same way here when Cowher was coach. The coordinators take a beating too, LeBeau a lot less than most, and for the most part he's earned it. Every time someone posts something they don't like about Tomlin it doesn't make them a hater. Every time someone says something positive it doesn't make them a nut hugger either. The banter is fun, and if everyone agreed this place would be boring as ****. As long as folks don't get too caught up in their feelings it's not that deep. 100 pages here we come.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

No one is perfect at drafting but Tombert has had a lot less hits and more misses than Cowbert did.

 

[Tibs]

He's like a paranoid dictator...

Yeah that too, but more than anything he's just a little **** and a massive attention *****. The board would be boring as hell without Vader around to keep everyone laughing...at him, not with him.

 

[ark steel]

Yea, just like TMC and dobre got ran off by my negative comments.. oh wait.. that was the circle jerk club that ran them off.

I thought it was because they couldn't figure out the ignore button.

 

[FAB802]

No one is perfect at drafting but Tombert has had a lot less hits and more misses than Cowbert did.

You can't say that until it all plays out. TomBert has to get as many years in as CowBertHoe, and those players have to get to their second contracts before you can say for sure. Brown is as good a WR as we've had back to Swann/Stallworth. They need to get their **** together on the defensive side of the ball to be sure, but their offensive drafting has been on for the most part. (No I did not like the Archer pick before someone says it)

Now, Tomlin has had eight drafts. You have to look at the Cowher drafts from his beginning to his eighth to compare. Ben, Troy, Hampton, Miller, Foote, Holmes, even Burress, Randle El, Kiesel, Ike and Starks came after year eight. He certainly had some legitimate hits the first eight drafts, but he had his fair share of whiffs too.

Tomlin/Colbert's first eight drafts produced Timmons, Woodley, Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Bell, Pouncey, DeCastro, and guys like Wheaton, Allen, Keenan Lewis, It's early but Martavis Bryant is looking awful good so far, Worilds and a couple more contributors. Same deal, some hits and obviously some whiffs.

The first eight years for each aren't some huge mismatch for either one of them. For every hit, each of them had a miss. Tomlin isn't going anywhere any time soon. The next couple drafts will be the determining factor for where this team finishes the end of Ben's career. Now that the offense looks to be set, they better concentrate on fixing the damn defense and get some talent over there.

 

[Tibs]

Nice post FAB, but sadly, the logic will be lost on our distinguished members who are convinced Tomlin is the Anti-Christ. There's nothing you can do but sit there and read their slobbering drivel over and over and over again. I am convinced some of these guys have a Tomlin voodoo doll beneath their pillows which they stick pins into each and every night hoping the man falls down a flight of stairs. It's beyond psychotic, the hatred and angst against a coach who's surely not Lombardi or Noll, but is arguably better than 75% of coaches in the league. Again, it's a waste of time to argue with these anti-Tomlin fanatics, nothing you can say - or nothing he or the team can do - that will alleviate the ***** hurt.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Tomlin sucks.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

If this flawed team should make it to the playoffs, let alone win the division, I would not be surprised to see reports that some posters on this board went all:

 

[deljzc]

Since 1969, there have been four draft classes where no one from that particular class was on the roster heading into it's 6th season.

It happened twice with Chuck Noll - in 1983 and again in 1985.

It never happened with Cowher.

It happened in back-to-back seasons with Tomlin (2008 and 2009).

It could be argued the Noll draft class failure directly impacted our failures as a team from 1985-1991 (no 10 win seasons, one playoff appearance).

What we are potentially witnessing is similar degradation of the roster that only Roethlisberger is keeping afloat (something Noll didn't have the luxury of in the 1980's). When you lose two entire draft classes and they don't really contribute to the depth on your roster, that is asking a LOT of the other draft classes (2007, 2010 and 2011 for instance) to "make up" the difference.

It's just a simple fact. It's not that every Tomlin pick is horrible. It's not that every pick Cowher or Noll made was perfect. It is a matter of degree in a business that is cutthroat if you fall behind the averages on any one part of roster building, health and coaching.

Using any reasonable barometer, the Tombert draft classes have not contributed or succeeded in the NFL to the degree the Cowher draft classes have. How big that difference is might be open to debate, but there has been a difference. And when you combine it with other aspects like health and what I consider below average game-day coaching, you have a team in a .500 pattern with a hall-of-fame quarterback.

We will see if this year ends up a success or another let down.

 

[Idioteque]

Nice post FAB, but sadly, the logic will be lost on our distinguished members who are convinced Tomlin is the Anti-Christ. There's nothing you can do but sit there and read their slobbering drivel over and over and over again.

Why? Why do you do it to yourself?

a coach who's surely not Lombardi or Noll

LOL, and water is wet

but is arguably better than 75% of coaches in the league. Again, it's a waste of time to argue with these anti-Tomlin fanatics, nothing you can say - or nothing he or the team can do - that will alleviate the ***** hurt.

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[Idioteque]

Since 1969, there have been four draft classes where no one from that particular class was on the roster heading into it's 6th season.

It happened twice with Chuck Noll - in 1983 and again in 1985.

It never happened with Cowher.

It happened in back-to-back seasons with Tomlin (2008 and 2009).

It could be argued the Noll draft class failure directly impacted our failures as a team from 1985-1991 (no 10 win seasons, one playoff appearance).

What we are potentially witnessing is similar degradation of the roster that only Roethlisberger is keeping afloat (something Noll didn't have the luxury of in the 1980's). When you lose two entire draft classes and they don't really contribute to the depth on your roster, that is asking a LOT of the other draft classes (2007, 2010 and 2011 for instance) to "make up" the difference.

It's just a simple fact. It's not that every Tomlin pick is horrible. It's not that every pick Cowher or Noll made was perfect. It is a matter of degree in a business that is cutthroat if you fall behind the averages on any one part of roster building, health and coaching.

Using any reasonable barometer, the Tombert draft classes have not contributed or succeeded in the NFL to the degree the Cowher draft classes have. How big that difference is might be open to debate, but there has been a difference. And when you combine it with other aspects like health and what I consider below average game-day coaching, you have a team in a .500 pattern with a hall-of-fame quarterback.

We will see if this year ends up a success or another let down.

Blah ******* blah. All I see here is a bunch of "smart guy" talk about, like, specifics and stuff. I don't see any whining/bitching about poor Tomlin's reputation. And no mention of our SB win from six years ago.

I bet you're not even drinking an Iron City right now!

Back to the Raven board with yer big words and football discussion. Here, we assume Tomlin iz awsum becuz Steelars

 

[Slaine]

You also need to take into account that 2009 was probably the worst draft class ever. Look through all the first and second rounders and there are very few that have seen any success. Hindsight is a wonderful thing as to who we should have taken.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2009-nfl-draft-may-be-the-worst-ever/

Every other draft from 1994 to 2011 (the last couple of years are a little too recent) has produced at least eight Pro Bowl players from the first round, including at least three in the top 10. Those first 10 picks from ’09, which include exactly one Pro Bowl appearance, are actually where the class is the most horrific.

 

[Superman]

while we prepare to burn Tombert at the stake, before we light his *** up...

since we've had it hammered over and over that each and every draft pick is extremely important, it would should be noted that the previous regime was not all that good at drafting towards the end, despite some revisionist history. Look at the last four drafts. 3rd rounder on Willie ******* Reid. 4th rounder on Orien Harris. 5th on Omar Jacobs. 4th on Fred Gibson. 5th on Rian Wallace. 2nd on Colclough. 5th on Adibi. 2nd on Alonzo Jackson. That's quite a few wasted draft picks, is it not?

2006 Draft-
Santonio Holmes
Anthony Smith
Willie Reid
Willie Colon
Orien Harris
Omar Jacobs
Charles Davis
Marvin Philip
Cedric Humes

2005 Draft -
Heath Miller
Bryant McFadden
Trai Essex
Fred Gibson
Rian Wallace
Chris Kemoeatu
Shaun Nua
Noah Herron

2004 Draft -
Ben
Ricardo Colclough
Max Starks
Nathaniel Adibi
Bo Lacy
Matt Kranchick
Drew Caylor
Eric Traylor

2003 Draft -
Troy
Alonzo Jackson
Ike Taylor
Brian St. Pierre
JT Wall

While everyone bashing Tomlin consistently brings up Keenan ******* Lewis' supernatural ability and how we are rueing the day we let him walk....remember, we had Mike Vrabel and let him go, too. Apples, tanks, speaking of stuff I know nothing about...etc, etc.

 

[Vader]

Yeah that too, but more than anything he's just a little **** and a massive attention *****. The board would be boring as hell without Vader around to keep everyone laughing...at him, not with him.

You nothing but a trolling little *****. You can't handle it so you're gone most of the time unless they win. What a little wet **** you are. This is why the board sucks so bad now. You and your ilk can't stand Tomlin's little feelings to get hurt so you have to blame DL for bad drafting. What a load of ****. But there aren't any posters who defend the honor of the noble Tomlin.. more bullshit. You, Sup, Ant, Ark, FAB, Steelbuckeye and Bermuda just off the top of my head defend him at all costs. But that's what you people do.. lie like a bunch of ******* when you don't get your way.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I'm honored...

We're idiots because we dont believe Tomlin just makes picks all by himself. Doesnt ask Mitchell and Lebeau for any input at all. Cause of two picks Hood and Timmons. **** you Dick go practice your Charles Dickens while we pick the players you have to coach.

 

[CoolieMan]

You nothing but a trolling little *****. You can't handle it so you're gone most of the time unless they win. What a little wet **** you are. This is why the board sucks so bad now. You and your ilk can't stand Tomlin's little feelings to get hurt so you have to blame DL for bad drafting. What a load of ****. But there aren't any posters who defend the honor of the noble Tomlin.. more bullshit. You, Sup, Ant, Ark, FAB, Steelbuckeye and Bermuda just off the top of my head defend him at all costs. But that's what you people do.. lie like a bunch of ******* when you don't get your way.

something about a pot and kettle comes to mind.....

 

[ark steel]

You nothing but a trolling little *****. You can't handle it so you're gone most of the time unless they win. What a little wet **** you are. This is why the board sucks so bad now. You and your ilk can't stand Tomlin's little feelings to get hurt so you have to blame DL for bad drafting. What a load of ****. But there aren't any posters who defend the honor of the noble Tomlin.. more bullshit. You, Sup, Ant, Ark, FAB, Steelbuckeye and Bermuda just off the top of my head defend him at all costs. But that's what you people do.. lie like a bunch of ******* when you don't get your way.

I made a list!!.. Suck it Sion!!

 

[antdrewjosh]

while we prepare to burn Tombert at the stake, before we light his *** up...

since we've had it hammered over and over that each and every draft pick is extremely important, it would should be noted that the previous regime was not all that good at drafting towards the end, despite some revisionist history. Look at the last four drafts. 3rd rounder on Willie ******* Reid. 4th rounder on Orien Harris. 5th on Omar Jacobs. 4th on Fred Gibson. 5th on Rian Wallace. 2nd on Colclough. 5th on Adibi. 2nd on Alonzo Jackson. That's quite a few wasted draft picks, is it not?

2006 Draft-
Santonio Holmes
Anthony Smith
Willie Reid
Willie Colon
Orien Harris
Omar Jacobs
Charles Davis
Marvin Philip
Cedric Humes

2005 Draft -
Heath Miller
Bryant McFadden
Trai Essex
Fred Gibson
Rian Wallace
Chris Kemoeatu
Shaun Nua
Noah Herron

2004 Draft -
Ben
Ricardo Colclough
Max Starks
Nathaniel Adibi
Bo Lacy
Matt Kranchick
Drew Caylor
Eric Traylor

2003 Draft -
Troy
Alonzo Jackson
Ike Taylor
Brian St. Pierre
JT Wall

While everyone bashing Tomlin consistently brings up Keenan ******* Lewis' supernatural ability and how we are rueing the day we let him walk....remember, we had Mike Vrabel and let him go, too. Apples, tanks, speaking of stuff I know nothing about...etc, etc.

Supe please stick too bitching/whining and our Super bowl win rrom 6 years ago. What the hell is your problem

 

[Idioteque]

I'm honored...

We're idiots because we dont believe Tomlin just makes picks all by himself.

What a stupid, exaggerated strawman. Show me one poster who claimed Tomlin sits alone in the war room and picks guys by himself.

Doesnt ask Mitchell and Lebeau for any input at all. Cause of two picks Hood and Timmons.

There were definitely more. We've drafted a long list of 4-3 DEs to play OLB. Woodley, Davis, Gibson, Worilds. Guys who were widely considered 4-3 DEs only and expected to be kept there. (It would also make sense that this is the reason Tomlin preferred Timmons over Harrison at ROLB. Harrison's size/speed would be a trainwreck at DE, so Tomlin drafted Timmons to play there instead. That's just hypothesizing, of course, but it fits.)

How about the fact that we've made no effort whatsoever to find a NT? That's the absolute backbone of a 3-4 defense, and we've just stuck the light, weak McLendon in there. He's nowhere near a NT. We've gone from a 3-4 team that desperately seeks 3-4 NTs to a 3-4 team with no interest whatsoever in finding a NT.

 

[Idioteque]

something about a pot and kettle comes to mind.....

Maybe you should go change his post titles and ban him.

 

[BLITZ]

man this thread is timeless. go back 3years some ****. go back 11 years same **** just replace tomlin with cowher. if this place was here in 88 my guess is replace cowher with noll.

 

[Superman]

You nothing but a trolling little *****. You can't handle it so you're gone most of the time unless they win. What a little wet **** you are. This is why the board sucks so bad now. You and your ilk can't stand Tomlin's little feelings to get hurt so you have to blame DL for bad drafting. What a load of ****. But there aren't any posters who defend the honor of the noble Tomlin.. more bullshit. You, Sup, Ant, Ark, FAB, Steelbuckeye and Bermuda just off the top of my head defend him at all costs. But that's what you people do.. lie like a bunch of ******* when you don't get your way.

iin honor of Tibs:

and you seriously want to castigate Tomlin for everything under the sun that happens on the grass at Heinz Field.
A fumble? Tomlin
An interception? Tomlin
Missed tackle? Tomlin
TD by the other team? Tomlin
Primanti's costs too much at the stadium? Tomlin
field conditions? Tomlin

while many of the people you listed are --- INDIFFERENT --- about Tomlin (meaning they have reached a middle ground on him - something you and your "ilk" say does not exist) you clearly see this as 100% supportive of Tomlin. Anything other than bashing the man over and over, repeatedly, day in and day out, hour after hour, is clearly the works of a Tomlin nut hugger.

The statement was that LeBeau probably has some input on the defensive draft picks. YOU threw a temper tantrum like the little chinese boy missing a 2-foot putt on YouTube. Then admitted he does have input. Seems to some here that you argue just to argue.

You must be quite a goddamn ray of sunshine in person.

How deep are the bite marks on your arm when the Steelers win in spite of Tomlin?

 

[antdrewjosh]

What a stupid, exaggerated strawman. Show me one poster who claimed Tomlin sits alone in the war room and picks guys by himself.



There were definitely more. We've drafted a long list of 4-3 DEs to play OLB. Woodley, Davis, Gibson, Worilds. Guys who were widely considered 4-3 DEs only and expected to be kept there. (It would also make sense that this is the reason Tomlin preferred Timmons over Harrison at ROLB. Harrison's size/speed would be a trainwreck at DE, so Tomlin drafted Timmons to play there instead. That's just hypothesizing, of course, but it fits.)

How about the fact that we've made no effort whatsoever to find a NT? That's the absolute backbone of a 3-4 defense, and we've just stuck the light, weak McLendon in there. He's nowhere near a NT. We've gone from a 3-4 team that desperately seeks 3-4 NTs to a 3-4 team with no interest whatsoever in finding a NT.

So you're saying before Tomlin we have never attempted to convert a college 4-3 end to a 3-4 OLB???