We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[Idioteque]

move the goal posts, Charlie Brown

Nothing cooler than trying to talk **** to a poster you've (pretended to) put on ignore. If I were you, and my complete lack of understanding had been exposed by stupid **** like "Haynesworth wuz a awsum nose tackle!" and "Jordy Nelson is just a slot receiver!" then I'd probably look for outs, too.

 

[Idioteque]

Well, since the discussion was about BUSTS, I don't see the relevance in mentioning successes. So, it's not a matter of convenience, but rather a matter of sticking to the discussion point.

But the hits contribute to the discussion just as much as the misses do. If you draft 7 guys, and 6 go to the HOF while one busts... then you're not in the same league as a guy who drafts 7 busts. The good tells us how much to weigh the bad.

 

[Wingman]

while we prepare to burn Tombert at the stake, before we light his *** up...

since we've had it hammered over and over that each and every draft pick is extremely important, it would should be noted that the previous regime was not all that good at drafting towards the end, despite some revisionist history. Look at the last four drafts. 3rd rounder on Willie ******* Reid. 4th rounder on Orien Harris. 5th on Omar Jacobs. 4th on Fred Gibson. 5th on Rian Wallace. 2nd on Colclough. 5th on Adibi. 2nd on Alonzo Jackson. That's quite a few wasted draft picks, is it not?

2006 Draft-
Santonio Holmes
Anthony Smith
Willie Reid
Willie Colon
Orien Harris
Omar Jacobs
Charles Davis
Marvin Philip
Cedric Humes

2005 Draft -
Heath Miller
Bryant McFadden
Trai Essex
Fred Gibson
Rian Wallace
Chris Kemoeatu
Shaun Nua
Noah Herron

2004 Draft -
Ben
Ricardo Colclough
Max Starks
Nathaniel Adibi
Bo Lacy
Matt Kranchick
Drew Caylor
Eric Traylor

2003 Draft -
Troy
Alonzo Jackson
Ike Taylor
Brian St. Pierre
JT Wall

While everyone bashing Tomlin consistently brings up Keenan ******* Lewis' supernatural ability and how we are rueing the day we let him walk....remember, we had Mike Vrabel and let him go, too. Apples, tanks, speaking of stuff I know nothing about...etc, etc.

I think this is a rather interesting post. It attempts to show how poor the past guy was so we can justify the present. Interesting point. Lets realize that a successful draft should get at least three guys that make your team and contribute in some way. That way you continue to rebuild your team as talent leaves. Lets also say that is an average as sometimes players get injured and are never the same and sometimes they just are not better than what you have. So with the list provided I will see what we have done in these supposedly bad drafts, again this is my opinion yours may differ.
2006
Santonio Holmes & Willie Colon two good players one is still on a highlight for the super bowl the other a steady if not spectacular player. Decent but a bit below the line.

2005
Heath Miller Bryant McFadden Trai Essex Chris Kemoeatu A star still on the team and contributing at a high level, a former starter on the oline, and two contributors, above the line

2004
Ben Ricardo Colclough Max Starks Ben still the best quarter back on the team and performing well, a franchise player nearing the end but with out him we have no reason to think the record that MT aficionados like would run past 4 seasons. A starting tackle that was better than both of the ones we have now. And a role player. Ben puts this above the line all by himself, Laundry Jones anyone.

2003
Troy Ike Taylor Brian St. Pierre Did we only draft 5 guys? Troy a future hall of fame player and dpoy. he alone could make this a good draft. Ike Taylor, for years the best corner back on the team able to both cover and play the run solid starter for years. Brian St. Pierre, back up who made the team and filled the role of emergency qb with enough youth to make one believe he could survive more than 3 games. Another above the line draft.

In all of those there were none that did not produce some solid players. In fact each of them landed some major pieces that contributed to success later on. previous regime was not all that good at drafting towards the end, despite some revisionist history.
I would say the revisionist history might be in play some where else.

I do not see that these claims support the position of the op in this thread but in fact refute it.

 

[antdrewjosh]

You just agreed with Supe's "point" that drafting Heyward fits this discussion about NTs and proves what a dumbfuck I am.

While we're at it, though, I'm still waiting to be told when I (a) claimed Cowher never drafted 4-3 DEs, and (b) claimed I knew those DTs I listed would be great players.

Im sorry where exactly did he call Heyward a NT pretty sure he said DL.

So if the previous regime drafted 4-3 DEs and tried to convert them how is that proof Tomlin wants to change anything? We have been taking these types for years and converting them, tweeners to OLB and big DEs who we think can play the 5 tech. So again what is your point?

 

[Idioteque]

Im sorry where exactly did he call Heyward a NT pretty sure he said DL.

He jumped into a discussion of "Why haven't we drafted any NTs?" and said "But we drafted Heyward and Worthington!"

So if the previous regime drafted 4-3 DEs and tried to convert them how is that proof Tomlin wants to change anything? We have been taking these types for years and converting them tweeners too OLB and big DEs who we think can play the 5 tech. So again what is your point?

Because for the current regime, converting 4-3 DEs to 3-4 OLBs is just the tip of the iceberg. It's only part of the puzzle. I don't know how many times I need to type this. Have you ignored everything said about Hood, McLendon, Heyward, etc.?

 

[antdrewjosh]

He jumped into a discussion of "Why haven't we drafted any NTs?" and said "But we drafted Heyward and Worthington!"



Because for the current regime, converting 4-3 DEs to 3-4 OLBs is just the tip of the iceberg. It's only part of the puzzle. I don't know how many times I need to type this. Have you ignored everything said about Hood, McLendon, Heyward, etc.?

Because they dont have **** to do wirh anything. Hood is the only one questionable. Because his style of play was a penetrator. We took him i assume because he was strong as hell. So they probably thought he could play 5 tech after being taught by Mitchell. Problem was he didnt play with that strength. Still wanted to penetrate. Not what we do. They blew that one. McClendon why are you mentiong him. He bulked up to play NT and has learned to play the position. Similar to Chris Hoke. Of course he isnt Hampton but who is. Hall of fame talent. Why do you keep mentioning Heyward. He is just like all the other DE who we have converted to 5 techique DEs.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Misses are much more tolerable when you're drafting HOFers and All-Pros left and right. Cowher assembled a great core in the 90s, then assembled the league's best a few years later. So he gets leeway for Jamain Stephens and Zo Jackson. Tomlin doesn't get that leeway because he's drafted a very mediocre core and failed miserably at numerous positions.

Again, I was discussing misses that COLBERT was associated with whether during the COWBERT or TOMBERT eras. I was not discussing COWHER or TOMLIN in this regards. Just COLBERT; as both of my posts indicate.

I understand your points about hits and misses both needing to be evaluated. But, my original post was in response to a statement about busts/bad picks only and so I limited myself to busts/bad picks only.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Wrong forum buddy, unless you somehow equate hatred for Tomlin being an exclusively far-right position and any support for our head coach being strictly a liberal one. Pretty warped world you live in, that's for sure.

It's the right forum and accurate.

 

[Idioteque]

Because they dont have **** to do wirh anything. Hood is the only one questionable. Because his style of play was a penetrator. We took him i assume because he was strong as hell. So they probably thought he could play 5 tech after being taught by Mitchell. Problem was he didnt play with that strength. Still wanted to penetrate. Not what we do. They blew that one. McClendon why are you mentiong him. He bulked up to play NT and has learned to play the position. Similar to Chris Hoke. Of course he isnt Hampton but who is. Hall of fame talent. Why do you keep mentioning Heyward. He is just like all the other DE who we have converted to 5 techique DEs.

You absolutely, positively will not grasp this. I think it's intentional.

 

[GMC]

3rd rounder on Willie ******* Reid.

Sorry, but I have to ask. If a 5' 11" 188 lb receiver/halfback/punt returner with 4.34 speed from FSU was a major reach in the 3rd, what do you consider Dri Archer?

Wingman covered the rest pretty well. Offensive skill positions have improved under Tombert, but thus far every other squad has gotten worse. It's not just the drafting, FA pickups haven't done well either.

 

[wig]

I'd just like to point out that I've been here almost longer than everybody.

That is all.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Other than Will Allen and other than this year, what free agent pickups were they able to make in recent years? I'm being serious in that I can't remember any medium to top tier free agents being brought in since we were annually up against the cap.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I'd just like to point out that I've been here almost longer than everybody.

That is all.

Well, according to some, that makes you a venerable poster. A Wise Man dispensing Steeler flavored manna from on high who is never to be disputed.

 

[GMC]

The team has never really brought in top tier free agents. It's always been mid to low level guys. But they went from bringing in guys like Hartings, Farrior, Clark and vol Oelhofen, to guys like Mahan, Whimper, Mitchell, Thomas and Fox.

Something is wrong with chemistry between Tomlin and Colbert. This year's draft class is showing some promise, but Colbert should be on a very short leash.

 

[wig]

Well, in fairness I've been disputed on about just about every point. So I wouldn't hold on to that too tightly.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

The team has never really brought in top tier free agents. It's always been mid to low level guys. But they went from bringing in guys like Hartings, Farrior, Clark and vol Oelhofen, to guys like Mahan, Whimper, Mitchell, Thomas and Fox.

Something is wrong with chemistry between Tomlin and Colbert. This year's draft class is showing some promise, but Colbert should be on a very short leash.

Now see you raise a valid point. Maybe there was something wrong with the chemistry between Tomlin and Colbert. What if Colbert's drafts with Cowher were for the most part successful because he was drafting with a coach who had years and years of head coaching experience and he, as GM, wasn't required to do much "evaluation" but instead was able to rely on Cowher's experience? Then he's handed a head coach with no prior head coach experience. A guy who is learning on the job. The drafts fall off.

Later, as Tomlin gains the type of experience that Cowher had, the drafts start to pick up. At least on the offensive side of the ball (Pouncey, DeCastro, Bell, Brown and even Wallace and Sanders).
What I'm getting at is that maybe Colbert needed an experienced head coach/talent evaluator in order to have successful drafts and Tomlin just wasn't at that point in his development prior to the last few years.
It will be interesting to see what this year's draft brings us; assuming that both Tomlin and Colbert are still here.

 

[Superman]

I think this is a rather interesting post. It attempts to show how poor the past guy was so we can justify the present. Interesting point. Lets realize that a successful draft should get at least three guys that make your team and contribute in some way. That way you continue to rebuild your team as talent leaves. Lets also say that is an average as sometimes players get injured and are never the same and sometimes they just are not better than what you have. So with the list provided I will see what we have done in these supposedly bad drafts, again this is my opinion yours may differ.
2006
Santonio Holmes & Willie Colon two good players one is still on a highlight for the super bowl the other a steady if not spectacular player. Decent but a bit below the line.

2005
Heath Miller Bryant McFadden Trai Essex Chris Kemoeatu A star still on the team and contributing at a high level, a former starter on the oline, and two contributors, above the line

2004
Ben Ricardo Colclough Max Starks Ben still the best quarter back on the team and performing well, a franchise player nearing the end but with out him we have no reason to think the record that MT aficionados like would run past 4 seasons. A starting tackle that was better than both of the ones we have now. And a role player. Ben puts this above the line all by himself, Laundry Jones anyone.

2003
Troy Ike Taylor Brian St. Pierre Did we only draft 5 guys? Troy a future hall of fame player and dpoy. he alone could make this a good draft. Ike Taylor, for years the best corner back on the team able to both cover and play the run solid starter for years. Brian St. Pierre, back up who made the team and filled the role of emergency qb with enough youth to make one believe he could survive more than 3 games. Another above the line draft.

In all of those there were none that did not produce some solid players. In fact each of them landed some major pieces that contributed to success later on. previous regime was not all that good at drafting towards the end, despite some revisionist history.
I would say the revisionist history might be in play some where else.

I do not see that these claims support the position of the op in this thread but in fact refute it.

the point being we have heard from certain posters that a "change" was made in 2007 in the drafting procedure suggesting that every pick prior was either on their way to superstar status or already was. How quickly we forget Alonzo Jackson. and Jamain Stephens. I agree with all your points. My post was merely pointing out that the previous regime was simply not hitting homeruns with every draft pick as it is vehemently suggested.

 

[Superman]

Im sorry where exactly did he call Heyward a NT pretty sure he said DL.

So if the previous regime drafted 4-3 DEs and tried to convert them how is that proof Tomlin wants to change anything? We have been taking these types for years and converting them, tweeners to OLB and big DEs who we think can play the 5 tech. So again what is your point?

correct. I clearly stated we are not ignoring the DEFENSIVE LINE as that ******* jackass continues to state repeatedly, Oh, he always comes back to the NT argument when his bullshit is pointed out. For ***** sake, we should have re-drafted Casey Hampton this year in IdiotWorld.

 

[Idioteque]

correct. I clearly stated we are not ignoring the DEFENSIVE LINE as that ******* jackass continues to state repeatedly, Oh, he always comes back to the NT argument when his bullshit is pointed out. For ***** sake, we should have re-drafted Casey Hampton this year in IdiotWorld.

"Comes back to" the NT argument? It was the whole ******* argument. I pointed out that we hadn't gone after a real NT, and you responded with"But Heyward!!!!"

This **** is harder and more exhausting than teaching my son not to eat flour. He's 2.

 

[Superman]

Sorry, but I have to ask. If a 5' 11" 188 lb receiver/halfback/punt returner with 4.34 speed from FSU was a major reach in the 3rd, what do you consider Dri Archer?

Wingman covered the rest pretty well. Offensive skill positions have improved under Tombert, but thus far every other squad has gotten worse. It's not just the drafting, FA pickups haven't done well either.

I never wanted Archer. I've stated this quite a few times. I wanted Jaylen Watkins. But we have Archer and I'm hoping for the best. I don't understand why hoping a guy does pan out is so evil and wrong, though.

 

[Idioteque]

I never wanted Archer. I've stated this quite a few times. I wanted Jaylen Watkins. But we have Archer and I'm hoping for the best. I don't understand why hoping a guy does pan out is so evil and wrong, though.

The issue, you poor, tortured little e-victim, is the dipfuck manner in which you and your e-man attacked everyone who disliked the pick. Even those with actual reasoning behind it. Suddenly, speed was the one determining factor in evaluating talent, and anyone who disagreed was going to e-pay for it. Suddenly, every 2-yard preseason punt return earned its own troll thread. Suddenly, Google Docs were created to be "held against" those who had different ideas for that pick. Suddenly, hating one pick in a draft that most of us generally loved was high ******* treason, and the babbling and sobbing and e-thuggery went on for months.

The other issue is that you're an idiot.

I know, I know. No response because I'm on Fake Ignore, allowing you spout bullshit without ever having to defend of answer for it. But the growing list of posters who laugh at you deserve the truth.

 

[bermudasteel]

I can't seem to find any data putting Coach Tomlin on the hot seat. Is he still our HC? Is Kevin Colbert still the General Manager? What exactly is the Rooney Rule?

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I never wanted Archer. I've stated this quite a few times. I wanted Jaylen Watkins. But we have Archer and I'm hoping for the best. I don't understand why hoping a guy does pan out is so evil and wrong, though.

Supe, I think that most of them on here can't get past the size issue with Archer and wonder how Tomberooney (new name, I can do it too - lol) couldn't see it as an issue like they do/did. While I hope Archer pans out, I don't really "expect" that he will based on his limited chances to perform this year. Now, the question for me is are his chances limited by performance or is performance limited by chances.

In any event, I look around and I see that Austin is struggling in St. Louis also, and that even those players around the same size as Archer who are more productive are a little "thicker" and I wonder if this type of player, with his body style will provide any long term value relative to where he was drafted. Legitimate questions I think.

But, like you, I'm willing to give it more than a season to see if he develops. I hope he does, but I don't expect he will. And based on my "expectations" or "opinion", I question whether or not taking a DB wouldn't have been the more prudent choice in the 3rd. Especially with our secondary issues continually exposed this year.

 

[GMC]

I never wanted Archer. I've stated this quite a few times. I wanted Jaylen Watkins. But we have Archer and I'm hoping for the best. I don't understand why hoping a guy does pan out is so evil and wrong, though.

I'm not saying anything is wrong with it, I too hope he finds a way to contribute. I just thought your analysis of taking Reid at #95 was a little off considering they took Archer (#97) at pretty much the same spot this year.

 

[Tibs]

Buckeye, I think we should start a stand-alone thread on Archer, debating the pros and cons of that pick. I would be curious to read what others think about him, it's a topic we haven't had a chance to discuss. Personally, I think he's a player that can really help us down the road, excited to see what he can do. I'm glad the Steelers were wise enough to pick him at the bottom of the third. The stars must have aligned to allow us such good fortune.