We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[FAB802]

There were DEFINITELY plenty of fire Cowher threads, and like you said, during that 05 season it was brutal! I remember there being a website devoted to trying to get Cowher fired. Most of the complaints were playing martyball, not being able to win the big games, and losing to lesser opponents.

That never happened here. This team has only been on the downswing since the best coach in Steelers history decided to hang them up right after winning a Super Bowl. You know, after more than a decade...................Nevermind, his players won one for coach shades too, so he gets credit for winning two.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Why in the world would anyone want to fire Tomlin now ????????





Salute the nation

 

[Idioteque]

See, this is another area in which you are full of ****. You are looking at things in hindsight, which is always 20/20. When they were 7-5 that year, I promise you, people were talking about them in similar ways to the way they are talking about this team. I remember the board after they lost to the Bengals. Most wanted Cowher hung in effigy. The way you say that is like there was this confidence that the Steelers were just going to roll through those last 4 games, the playoffs and win the SB.

I find it interesting that when teams win, players and coaches look like HOFers. When they lose, those same people don't look quite as wonderful. They are the same players.

Listen, I don't like comparing teams either, because what happened in 2005 has no bearing on today. I don't think this coach, for example, is in the same league with Cowher. I am really just pointing out that at the time that team was 7-5, there were not too many people calling anyone, especially the coach, a HOFer.

And another area in which you're whining and saying nothing.

I don't feel I need hindsight to assume that our current core won't be looked at on the same level as the 05's core. You may play devil's advocate all you like, but I don't think I'm going on a limb by saying our core of 4-5 HOFers was worlds better than this one, which "boasts" a bottom-level defense and a wildly inconsistent offense.

We were 7-5, yes, with 2 losses coming without Ben and arguably the league's worst backup throwing the game away. Yeah. That's the same as losing to the absolute dregs of the NFL multiple times per year and missing the playoffs repeatedly.

I couldn't care less about your (inaccurate) recall of the anti-Cowher sentiment because it isn't even relevant.

You were one of those "I'm not touching you!!" kids, weren't you?

 

[Tibs]

Why in the world would anyone want to fire Tomlin now ????????

That is a relevant question, indeed. Seems there are some Steelers fans in need of a little help... they are living in the past, are a bit confused which decade this is, that Noll and Cowher are no longer around, that the team is fighting for the division title, have one of the hottest offenses in the league right now, et al... but no, the sky is falling, the sky is always falling...

 

[steel dino]

Here is my take on the subject of making changes in the Steelers organizational management...

As passionate fans of the best damn franchise in the NFL....we have a tendency to over-analyze just about everything regarding our beloved Steelers.

I would suggest that the main reason this franchise has had on-going success, and almost a cult following, is direct result of the Rooney's main factor in their "mission statement" on how to run a successful multi-million dollar profitable business.

That main ingredient is simple and a singular word.....STABILITY.

-From that one word comes many favorable results for any "for-profit" business organizations, as the one the Rooney family has successfully operated for about 80 years.

My point is embrace this as fans, which will allow us to focus on improvements that drive results. Which does not include making changes that will affect their "stability" approach for success.

 

[Supersteeler]

The Browns and Raiders change everything top top bottom about every 3 years and it works amazingly for them. That's the model that the chronic complainers want us to follow. A sure recipe for success! I say go for it! **** can everybody as soon as they do something you don't approve of.

 

[cpollock]

I thought this thread was LOCKED .. can we give it a rest

 

[Vader]

The Browns and Raiders change everything top top bottom about every 3 years and it works amazingly for them. That's the model that the chronic complainers want us to follow. A sure recipe for success! I say go for it! **** can everybody as soon as they do something you don't approve of.

Right because Tomlin has only been here 3 years... Typical strawman.

 

[deljzc]

Here is my take on the subject of making changes in the Steelers organizational management...

As passionate fans of the best damn franchise in the NFL....we have a tendency to over-analyze just about everything regarding our beloved Steelers.

I would suggest that the main reason this franchise has had on-going success, and almost a cult following, is direct result of the Rooney's main factor in their "mission statement" on how to run a successful multi-million dollar profitable business.

That main ingredient is simple and a singular word.....STABILITY.

-From that one word comes many favorable results for any "for-profit" business organizations, as the one the Rooney family has successfully operated for about 80 years.

My point is embrace this as fans, which will allow us to focus on improvements that drive results. Which does not include making changes that will affect their "stability" approach for success.

That's a bit of a stretch.

Not many of us advocating for change were saying so 2 or 3 years into Tomlin's tenure. This 8 year stretch is almost too stable. Of the big 4: GM, head coach, OC and DC, there has been ONE change in eight years. Look back at Cowher's tenure here and you'll never see that type of stability. In fact in the last downturn (the one in which many did call for Cowher's job), major changes were made including firing the GM and numerous changes to OC's and DC's.

The fact is making a change after 8 seasons with Tombert would not be construed as "rash" or a quick trigger and certainly would not mean those advocating for his removal would do so again in 2-3 season cycles like you are indicating.

Sometimes this stereotype of those wanting change really pisses me off. There are many here that think it's something we've been out for since Tomlin was hired (not true in my case). Or that we haven't put a lot of thought into the ramifications or the possibility the next guy could be worse. We even realize what we want isn't going to happen.

But this is a DISCUSSION board. There is a big divide right now between those that want to keep Tomlin and those that don't. It's pretty black or white and it's a BIG issue for a team. Possibly the biggest issue of all when you talk about the stability a coach gets around here. Those factors are why this thread is 80 pages and this discussion doesn't really die. Both sides are pretty entrenched in their positions and both sides (in my opinion) have pretty valid points behind their arguments.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Why in the world would anyone want to fire Tomlin now ????????





Salute the nation

Because he sucks.

 

[Drink IRON City]

That is a relevant question, indeed. Seems there are some Steelers fans in need of a little help... they are living in the past, are a bit confused which decade this is, that Noll and Cowher are no longer around, that the team is fighting for the division title, have one of the hottest offenses in the league right now, et al... but no, the sky is falling, the sky is always falling...

Right now, I'd be thinking this "Tomlin" dude has us in the very thick of things. Starts at the top, falure or siccess, right???




Salute the nation

 

[slashsteel]

That's a bit of a stretch.

Not many of us advocating for change were saying so 2 or 3 years into Tomlin's tenure. This 8 year stretch is almost too stable. Of the big 4: GM, head coach, OC and DC, there has been ONE change in eight years. Look back at Cowher's tenure here and you'll never see that type of stability. In fact in the last downturn (the one in which many did call for Cowher's job), major changes were made including firing the GM and numerous changes to OC's and DC's.

The fact is making a change after 8 seasons with Tombert would not be construed as "rash" or a quick trigger and certainly would not mean those advocating for his removal would do so again in 2-3 season cycles like you are indicating.

Sometimes this stereotype of those wanting change really pisses me off. There are many here that think it's something we've been out for since Tomlin was hired (not true in my case). Or that we haven't put a lot of thought into the ramifications or the possibility the next guy could be worse. We even realize what we want isn't going to happen.

But this is a DISCUSSION board. There is a big divide right now between those that want to keep Tomlin and those that don't. It's pretty black or white and it's a BIG issue for a team. Possibly the biggest issue of all when you talk about the stability a coach gets around here. Those factors are why this thread is 80 pages and this discussion doesn't really die. Both sides are pretty entrenched in their positions and both sides (in my opinion) have pretty valid points behind their arguments.

I agree. And having a thread on it you can throw any additional I dislike/ hate Tomlin newly created threads here.

I used to be in the middle, but late last year, and into this year as I have said off and on, that changed.

I see Tomlin as not being that game adjustment coach. Not sure he could ever get this team back to a SB.

And with a franchise QB, I simply think the team has enough talent to get back. With a new coach who could make better game adjustments, better talent evaluations. ( I am right there with Colbert as well).

I keep thinking what IF Arians would have been offered the head coaching gig. Possibly a front office fail for not promoting him.

Hell a part of me wishes ( I know it won't happen) they lured him back with partial GM offer, more money etc.

I see what some coaches do with less, and I think we have a coach who does less with more.

shrugs

Just the way I see it.

 

[diver]

And another area in which you're whining and saying nothing.

I don't feel I need hindsight to assume that our current core won't be looked at on the same level as the 05's core. You may play devil's advocate all you like, but I don't think I'm going on a limb by saying our core of 4-5 HOFers was worlds better than this one, which "boasts" a bottom-level defense and a wildly inconsistent offense.

We were 7-5, yes, with 2 losses coming without Ben and arguably the league's worst backup throwing the game away. Yeah. That's the same as losing to the absolute dregs of the NFL multiple times per year and missing the playoffs repeatedly.

I couldn't care less about your (inaccurate) recall of the anti-Cowher sentiment because it isn't even relevant.

You were one of those "I'm not touching you!!" kids, weren't you?

You are saying nothing, you dumbass, because you just don't know that. In 2005, after that Bengal game, there weren't too many people talking about HOF anything. In 2014, sure. Any moron can do that.

I am right about Cowher at the time too. You are wrong. There is really no point in arguing that any further. It is relevant to the idea that in '05 things didn't look so rosy, just like they don't look today for this group. I am just not arrogant enough to write them all off yet like you are.

 

[diver]

I agree. And having a thread on it you can throw any additional I dislike/ hate Tomlin newly created threads here.

I used to be in the middle, but late last year, and into this year as I have said off and on, that changed.

I see Tomlin as not being that game adjustment coach. Not sure he could ever get this team back to a SB.

And with a franchise QB, I simply think the team has enough talent to get back. With a new coach who could make better game adjustments, better talent evaluations. ( I am right there with Colbert as well).

I keep thinking what IF Arians would have been offered the head coaching gig. Possibly a front office fail for not promoting him.

Hell a part of me wishes ( I know it won't happen) they lured him back with partial GM offer, more money etc.

I see what some coaches do with less, and I think we have a coach who does less with more.

shrugs

Just the way I see it.

I used to be a Tomlin guy. Now, not so much. They keep him, fine. They fire him, fine. But the new coach will have issues, too. I think that is important to understand. With Tomlin, I can't or maybe won't put my finger on one thing. It seems to be an overall malaise, if that makes sense. I think malaise defines 8-8 seasons. I just don't see what he is brining to the table.

Maybe I cannot pinpoint one thing because there are a few arguments that I just don't think we can really make, because of lack of knowledge. I think you made one with the adjustments. How do we know if adjustments are made or not? They were losing to the Bengals at half last week. They came out and took the lead in the 3rd and put up 25 points in the 4th. One could argue Tomlin made adjustments. I would argue the team just played better. I think that is a lot of what happens when you think you see adjustments. The team just plays better.

I am with you on talent evaluations. I am not willing to write some of these guys off yet, but I am not overly confident.

I almost choked on my lunch when you brought up Arians. Again, he looks good now. But most couldn't wait for him to leave when he did. Hindsight. But could it be the inconsistencies on offense were not Arians fault? We still see them, and Ben is the constant. Is he as franchise as everybody thinks?

 

[Idioteque]

You are saying nothing, you dumbass, because you just don't know that. In 2005, after that Bengal game, there weren't too many people talking about HOF anything. In 2014, sure. Any moron can do that.

I don't give a **** what you (claim to) remember people saying. Anyone with eyeballs could tell we had one of the most talented cores of talent in the league. Just like they can also tell we struggle in most key areas today.

You say I'm using hindsight. I am, admittedly. I'm using hindsight to say Porter/Haggans/Harrison was better than Jarvis/Worilds/Moats, and that our feared pass rush from back then is now an anemic one. I'm using hindsight to say our top-tier o-line from the mid-00s was better than the hit-or-miss crew we have now. I'm using hindsight to say that 3rd-year Troy was better than 12th-year Troy.

Your argument is that I don't yet know how good our guys now will be when it's all said and done. That's correct; I'm using hindsight when I use terms like HOF. But are you really ready to argue that we have comparable talent now? It's stupid and argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. It seems to me (and anyone objective) that our most talented players now (besides a few skill-position players) are either good-not-great guys in the DeCastro/Heyward class, or young part-timers (Tuitt, Martavis, Shazier). Back then, we had GREAT talents just hitting their prime and studly veterans all across the field. Back then, we didn't lose to garbage teams NEARLY as often - it was about once a year, now it's more than double that. Back then, we contended for the SB pretty much every year. In 2005, we were fresh off a 15-1 season and had the best roster in football.

I understand you want to argue with everything I post, because I posted it. That's your prerogative, albeit a stupid/pathetic one. But until you're ready to argue that our talent level

I am right about Cowher at the time too. You are wrong. There is really no point in arguing that any further. It is relevant to the idea that in '05 things didn't look so rosy, just like they don't look today for this group. I am just not arrogant enough to write them all off yet like you are.

Who did I "write off"? By saying our current roster isn't as talented/good as that one?

It's all black and white with some of you. You love every Steeler and assume they're great, or you're a ******** who's writing them off because you secretly hate the team.

 

[Idioteque]

The Browns and Raiders change everything top top bottom about every 3 years and it works amazingly for them. That's the model that the chronic complainers want us to follow. A sure recipe for success! I say go for it! **** can everybody as soon as they do something you don't approve of.

Can you name the posters who want us to change coaches "every 3 years"? Who's posted that?

Some of you think changing a coach is just the end of the goddamn world. You're always (you especially) the first one to whine after a loss that "Hey, the head coach doesn't really DO anything anyway!"

 

[Supersteeler]

Can you name the posters who want us to change coaches "every 3 years"? Who's posted that?

Some of you think changing a coach is just the end of the goddamn world. You're always (you especially) the first one to whine after a loss that "Hey, the head coach doesn't really DO anything anyway!"

Lol, I whine after a loss? I'm lucky to watch an entire game.

Would it totally make your day for me to say it's you? OK, I was referring to you that always wants to tear everything down. Happy?

 

[Idioteque]

Lol, I whine after a loss? I'm lucky to watch an entire game.

Would it totally make your day for me to say it's you? OK, I was referring to you that always wants to tear everything down. Happy?

I couldn't give less of a ****. But it is funny that you REFUSE to answer to either of the points I brought up. Funny, and telling.

 

[slashsteel]

I used to be a Tomlin guy. Now, not so much. They keep him, fine. They fire him, fine. But the new coach will have issues, too. I think that is important to understand. With Tomlin, I can't or maybe won't put my finger on one thing. It seems to be an overall malaise, if that makes sense. I think malaise defines 8-8 seasons. I just don't see what he is brining to the table.

Maybe I cannot pinpoint one thing because there are a few arguments that I just don't think we can really make, because of lack of knowledge. I think you made one with the adjustments. How do we know if adjustments are made or not? They were losing to the Bengals at half last week. They came out and took the lead in the 3rd and put up 25 points in the 4th. One could argue Tomlin made adjustments. I would argue the team just played better. I think that is a lot of what happens when you think you see adjustments. The team just plays better.

I am with you on talent evaluations. I am not willing to write some of these guys off yet, but I am not overly confident.

I almost choked on my lunch when you brought up Arians. Again, he looks good now. But most couldn't wait for him to leave when he did. Hindsight. But could it be the inconsistencies on offense were not Arians fault? We still see them, and Ben is the constant. Is he as franchise as everybody thinks?

Hindsight very true.

I wouldn't want him as a OC again. But he seems to have found his niche.

So bringing him back in a expanded role why not. (again I know a pipedream)

The trend of losing to bottom feeders more often than not.

And beating better teams.............. this is where I think the notion of questionable talent sort of gets put on hold. Not that there isn't a lack of D talent. But that didn't stop the Steelers from beating Cincy, Indy, and Ravens.

Add that to a similar trend in prior seasons, I find myself wondering that trend how could it come from anywhere but a Mister Cool Shades Tomlin.

 

[Punxsutawney]

I couldn't give less of a ****. But it is funny that you REFUSE to answer to either of the points I brought up. Funny, and telling.

According to him, he hardly watches the games, so why do you bother?

 

[diver]

I don't give a **** what you (claim to) remember people saying. Anyone with eyeballs could tell we had one of the most talented cores of talent in the league. Just like they can also tell we struggle in most key areas today.

You say I'm using hindsight. I am, admittedly. I'm using hindsight to say Porter/Haggans/Harrison was better than Jarvis/Worilds/Moats, and that our feared pass rush from back then is now an anemic one. I'm using hindsight to say our top-tier o-line from the mid-00s was better than the hit-or-miss crew we have now. I'm using hindsight to say that 3rd-year Troy was better than 12th-year Troy.

Your argument is that I don't yet know how good our guys now will be when it's all said and done. That's correct; I'm using hindsight when I use terms like HOF. But are you really ready to argue that we have comparable talent now? It's stupid and argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. It seems to me (and anyone objective) that our most talented players now (besides a few skill-position players) are either good-not-great guys in the DeCastro/Heyward class, or young part-timers (Tuitt, Martavis, Shazier). Back then, we had GREAT talents just hitting their prime and studly veterans all across the field. Back then, we didn't lose to garbage teams NEARLY as often - it was about once a year, now it's more than double that. Back then, we contended for the SB pretty much every year. In 2005, we were fresh off a 15-1 season and had the best roster in football.

I understand you want to argue with everything I post, because I posted it. That's your prerogative, albeit a stupid/pathetic one. But until you're ready to argue that our talent level



Who did I "write off"? By saying our current roster isn't as talented/good as that one?

It's all black and white with some of you. You love every Steeler and assume they're great, or you're a ******** who's writing them off because you secretly hate the team.

I, like others, argue with what you post because you are obviously an ***. You also do not read. I never made any comparisons. I never said you secretly hate the team. You are a ********, though. You nailed that one. I get a real kick out of you saying people follow you around on the board. You've done that to others. It's laughable. You bring the attention onto yourself, and then like a little *****, whine when you get negative attention.

That's fine you don't give a ****. Continue to live in ignorance. It keeps things simple for you I see. People like you, the less you have to think about or process, the better.

Now, if you read, I clearly stated that I am not too jazzed about their talent now. My problem is more with the argument you made way back acting as if in 2005 everybody knew Cowher was a HOFer, for example. He hadn't won a SB yet, for **** sake. You damn well know it is the fact that he finally won one that has even put him in the discussion.

 

[diver]

Hindsight very true.

I wouldn't want him as a OC again. But he seems to have found his niche.

So bringing him back in a expanded role why not. (again I know a pipedream)

The trend of losing to bottom feeders more often than not.

And beating better teams.............. this is where I think the notion of questionable talent sort of gets put on hold. Not that there isn't a lack of D talent. But that didn't stop the Steelers from beating Cincy, Indy, and Ravens.

Add that to a similar trend in prior seasons, I find myself wondering that trend how could it come from anywhere but a Mister Cool Shades Tomlin.

Arians has seemed to find his niche. I really didn't expect his success, to be honest. While I wasn't actively calling for him to go, I wasn't sad he left. He seems like a no nonsense guy, too.

I can't figure out the losing to these teams, either. I think against good teams Tomlin and the team have more of an aggressive attitude. Against bad teams their ******** tighten up like snare drums. I think they see ghosts sometimes. They think if they just play it close to the vest, they will pull it out in the end. The talent in the NFL is just too spread out, you can't do that anymore.

 

[Idioteque]

I, like others, argue with what you post because you are obviously an ***.

Yes, like I said. Not because you disagree with my points. Just because you like to argue with me. That's pretty damned pathetic.

You also do not read. I never made any comparisons. I never said you secretly hate the team. You are a ********, though. You nailed that one. I get a real kick out of you saying people follow you around on the board. You've done that to others. It's laughable. You bring the attention onto yourself, and then like a little *****, whine when you get negative attention.

That's fine you don't give a ****. Continue to live in ignorance. It keeps things simple for you I see. People like you, the less you have to think about or process, the better.

Yawn. All recycled, argumentative bullshit from others, and none of it makes any sense. You're clearly done debating the football side of things, so you whine about the posters posting ****. Like you admitted in the first sentence of this "post" - you don't like me, so you want to troll my post to argue for the sake of argument. This place used to be different, when sobbing e-******* made up the MINORITY of the membership.

Now, if you read, I clearly stated that I am not too jazzed about their talent now. My problem is more with the argument you made way back acting as if in 2005 everybody knew Cowher was a HOFer, for example. He hadn't won a SB yet, for **** sake. You damn well know it is the fact that he finally won one that has even put him in the discussion.

Saying I was "acting as if" something suggests you're just coming up with **** from your own interpretation.

Guess what? You're still an idiot.

 

[diver]

Allright. I take responsibility for beginning our little back and forth by saying you are full of ****. I shouldn't have done that. However, that still does diminish the validity of what I am saying.

To review, someone, not me, must have expressed the possibility of what happened in 2005 to the chance it could happen with the 2014 team. You responded that the premise is flawed,as the 2005 team had 4-5 HOFers and a HOF head coach. My response to that is you are looking at the 2005 team through 2014 eyes, but the 2014 team through 2014 eyes. Very few people were naming HOF players on the 2005 team, especially after the loss to the Bengals that year. As a matter of fact, the venom was every bit as strong as it is now, for maybe different reasons. As you stated, they came off of a 15-1 year, people's hopes were high, and here they were, 7-5, and the Bengals just stomped on the terrible towel in Pittsburgh. It looked like a big, wasted opportunity at the time.

I think it is flawed to compare teams, years, situations or whatever. I also think it is flawed to look at one team with the benefit of time in comparing to another team. We have no idea what this team will look like in 3 years. There is a chance some of these players could end up being very good. Maybe not, too.

 

[Idioteque]

Yes, it indeed required hindsight to call those guys HOFers. But to me, there's just no comparison on a talent level or a production one. And I just can't imagine anyone being able to argue otherwise.