We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[Confluence]

Yes, it indeed required hindsight to call those guys HOFers. But to me, there's just no comparison on a talent level or a production one. And I just can't imagine anyone being able to argue otherwise.

Ben
Brown
Bell



Bryant
DeCastro
Pouncey
Miller
Suisham
Harrison
Heyward
Timmons

 

[steel dino]

Arians has seemed to find his niche. I really didn't expect his success, to be honest. While I wasn't actively calling for him to go, I wasn't sad he left. He seems like a no nonsense guy, too.

.

Just for the record...BTW who is keeping track of the score?

I was one of the very, very few that was opposed to the Arians "retirement"...

IMO--His move out could be the main contributor as why we have struggled the last two years in mediocrity until this season, when we have finally adjusted to Haley's system and he and Ben have develop a better working relationship two years later..

Stability boys....stability..

 

[Idioteque]

Ben
Brown
Bell



Bryant
DeCastro
Pouncey
Miller
Suisham
Harrison
Heyward
Timmons

That's a lot of mid-level guys you're using there. Suisham? Timmons? Heyward? These are guys who don't even compare to their 05 counterparts.

 

[SteelChip]

I read an article today in the FANPOST that kinda sums this whole thread up into one message.....Here's a sample.

Perhaps Short (Or, at Least, Selective) Memories Are Making Us Too Critical

Who here remembers Thanksgiving Day of 1998? Wasn't a fun day, was it? Even if you were too young at the time or old enough to be too intoxicated at the time, it's been repeated enough that we all know what happened. The bizarre thing about that game is that it started a chain reaction that saw us losing out that season to finish 7-9. Were the internet as prevalent then as it is now, I'm sure the "Fire Cowher!" brigade would have at least begun rumbling. We followed up that late-season nosedive with a 6-10 season. And right there is where it gets frustrating to see all of the naysayers who freak out at us going 8-8 for two years in a row and find ourselves at 7-5 at the moment. The Steelers in 1999 were nigh unwatchable.

Getting back on topic, Cowher managed to kind of, sort of, almost right the ship by posting a 9-7 record the next season, causing us to be eliminated in the playoffs by way of tie-breakers.Because of that, he received a contract extension. He followed that up with a borderline out-of-nowhere 13-3 season that saw us run up to the AFC Championship game. However, late in that season leading into the beginning of the next is where we see things begin to unravel.

It was near the end of the season, we were playing the Bengals, and Jon effing Kitna was picking us apart through the air. As I sat there watching the game, I remember thinking to myself "My God, if other teams see how incapable our secondary is of stopping this kind of passing attack, we are absolutely doomed." Fast-forward to the AFC Championship game, and perhaps more importantly, to the first two games of the following season. New England and Oakland TORCHED our secondary in consecutive weeks. I was sure that the team was doomed.

And that's another point that frustrates me with the criticism of the secondary this year. Yes, they have made some head-scratching mistakes. But I have not seen wholesale inability to stop a passing game the likes of which the secondaries of the late 90s and early 2000s possessed.

And at the end of the day, when things look bleak for the Steelers and it seems like it could be a January without playoffs, I think of what my father always says to me in those situations: Son, at least we aren't in Cleveland.
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...at-least-selective-memories-are-making-us-too

 

[steel dino]

I read an article today in the FANPOST that kinda sums this whole thread up into one message.....Here's a sample.

Perhaps Short (Or, at Least, Selective) Memories Are Making Us Too Critical

Who here remembers Thanksgiving Day of 1998? Wasn't a fun day, was it? Even if you were too young at the time or old enough to be too intoxicated at the time, it's been repeated enough that we all know what happened. The bizarre thing about that game is that it started a chain reaction that saw us losing out that season to finish 7-9. Were the internet as prevalent then as it is now, I'm sure the "Fire Cowher!" brigade would have at least begun rumbling. We followed up that late-season nosedive with a 6-10 season. And right there is where it gets frustrating to see all of the naysayers who freak out at us going 8-8 for two years in a row and find ourselves at 7-5 at the moment. The Steelers in 1999 were nigh unwatchable.

Getting back on topic, Cowher managed to kind of, sort of, almost right the ship by posting a 9-7 record the next season, causing us to be eliminated in the playoffs by way of tie-breakers.Because of that, he received a contract extension. He followed that up with a borderline out-of-nowhere 13-3 season that saw us run up to the AFC Championship game.
[/url]

Great example of how the Rooney's patience with their "operating" management, and then ultimately being rewarded for that patience, by allowing a man they hired and believe in do what they hired him for....

Does anyone believe that if they fired Cowher and his staff after those couple rough years, they would of righted the ship so quickly or even at all to ultimately become world champions...

stability.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

I read an article today in the FANPOST that kinda sums this whole thread up into one message.....Here's a sample.

Perhaps Short (Or, at Least, Selective) Memories Are Making Us Too Critical

Who here remembers Thanksgiving Day of 1998? Wasn't a fun day, was it? Even if you were too young at the time or old enough to be too intoxicated at the time, it's been repeated enough that we all know what happened. The bizarre thing about that game is that it started a chain reaction that saw us losing out that season to finish 7-9. Were the internet as prevalent then as it is now, I'm sure the "Fire Cowher!" brigade would have at least begun rumbling. We followed up that late-season nosedive with a 6-10 season. And right there is where it gets frustrating to see all of the naysayers who freak out at us going 8-8 for two years in a row and find ourselves at 7-5 at the moment. The Steelers in 1999 were nigh unwatchable.

Getting back on topic, Cowher managed to kind of, sort of, almost right the ship by posting a 9-7 record the next season, causing us to be eliminated in the playoffs by way of tie-breakers.Because of that, he received a contract extension. He followed that up with a borderline out-of-nowhere 13-3 season that saw us run up to the AFC Championship game. However, late in that season leading into the beginning of the next is where we see things begin to unravel.

It was near the end of the season, we were playing the Bengals, and Jon effing Kitna was picking us apart through the air. As I sat there watching the game, I remember thinking to myself "My God, if other teams see how incapable our secondary is of stopping this kind of passing attack, we are absolutely doomed." Fast-forward to the AFC Championship game, and perhaps more importantly, to the first two games of the following season. New England and Oakland TORCHED our secondary in consecutive weeks. I was sure that the team was doomed.

And that's another point that frustrates me with the criticism of the secondary this year. Yes, they have made some head-scratching mistakes. But I have not seen wholesale inability to stop a passing game the likes of which the secondaries of the late 90s and early 2000s possessed.

And at the end of the day, when things look bleak for the Steelers and it seems like it could be a January without playoffs, I think of what my father always says to me in those situations: Son, at least we aren't in Cleveland.
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...at-least-selective-memories-are-making-us-too

Great article and interesting read. With today's youth and the internet, they only remember what happened recently. There is little to no patience to be found. Look how bad our offense was, and how great it is now. We have had almost a complete turnover of personnel on both sides of the ball. Hopefully the 'D' improves the same way the "O" did.

 

[Omar10213245]

Great example of how the Rooney's patience with their "operating" management and then ultimately being rewarded for that patience and allowing a man they hired and believe in do want they hired him for....

Does anyone believe that if they fired Cowher and his staff after those couple rough years, they would of righted the ship so quickly or even at all...

stability.

Who's to say that if cowher were fired, that they wouldnt have found another high quality coach to "right the ship" quickly?? You dont know any better than anyone else, so spare me the "logic" in keeping tomlin around

 

[SCSteeler4life]

Who's to say that if cowher were fired, that they wouldnt have found another high quality coach to "right the ship" quickly?? You dont know any better than anyone else, so spare me the "logic" in keeping tomlin around

I will take the 2 SB wins and not take the chance.

 

[Punxsutawney]

And that's another point that frustrates me with the criticism of the secondary this year. Yes, they have made some head-scratching mistakes. But I have not seen wholesale inability to stop a passing game the likes of which the secondaries of the late 90s and early 2000s possessed.

The Steelers are currently 31st in the league in yards per pass play against. It doesn't get worse than that.

 

[Omar10213245]

I will take the 2 SB wins and not take the chance.

Ok cool. Welp, time to just sit back and wait for the lombardi's
*crickets*.......


*another few seasons pass, more crickets...*



Even more seasons come and go, and more crickets....*

 

[Steelz]

Why would any coach want to coach for the Steelers with these type of fans? Especially when every game won or lost is "because of the coaching"? I really think Steeler fans expect the team to go 16-0 and win Super Bowls every year. And of course if we lose it's because we beat ourselves with bad coaching. "We didn't prepare ourselves enough".

 

[steel dino]

Ok cool. Welp, time to just sit back and wait for the lombardi's
*crickets*.......


*another few seasons pass, more crickets...*



Even more seasons come and go, and more crickets....*

As Steeler fans...we hear the "yearly" crickets between Lombardi's, at a much lesser rate than any other franchise...

 

[SCSteeler4life]

Ok cool. Welp, time to just sit back and wait for the lombardi's
*crickets*.......


*another few seasons pass, more crickets...*



Even more seasons come and go, and more crickets....*

How old are you 15? You must have started following the Steelers in 2005. You are just spoiled. And to risk not having those last to SB wins is just crazy.

 

[Omar10213245]

How old are you 15? You must have started following the Steelers in 2005. You are just spoiled. And to risk not having those last to SB wins is just crazy.

Get ****** and eat ****, you dont know me, you ******* ****

 

[Confluence]

That's a lot of mid-level guys you're using there. Suisham? Timmons? Heyward? These are guys who don't even compare to their 05 counterparts.

Not yet they don't, because we don't have the retrospect that you have for 05...yet.

And I didn't include Polamalu, or Taylor.....guys that have been large contributors until this season.

 

[topseed]

But this is a DISCUSSION board. There is a big divide right now between those that want to keep Tomlin and those that don't. It's pretty black or white and it's a BIG issue for a team. Possibly the biggest issue of all when you talk about the stability a coach gets around here. Those factors are why this thread is 80 pages and this discussion doesn't really die. Both sides are pretty entrenched in their positions and both sides (in my opinion) have pretty valid points behind their arguments.

I don't see the divide as being that wide. There are plenty of people in the middle on Tomlin. Just ask ark steel -- he's never had a discouraging word for the man and defends him at every turn...yet he's no nuthugger, just a guy who thinks that Tomlin "doesn't suck."

I was surprised, however, by the results of your poll, which indicate that over 85% of voters would not grant Tomlin an extension. That's pretty telling. Some of us are just more vocal about that opinion than others.

 

[Wingman]

I will take the 2 SB wins and not take the chance.

What coach won 2 super bowls? answer neither of the recent 2. Both have played in two. Many people will say the Steelers played well in that 1st loss to the cowboys and should have won the game. Coaching, in game adjustments etc were not called out for the loss. Biggest issue zebras not calling a pick play, another letting emmitt smiph crawl into the end zone after he was down, and the thoughts that Neil O,Dummel was paid to throw the game. Cowher called and succeeded with an onside kick and generally did a good job from a coaching standpoint. There are always posters advocating a course of action with nothing to back it up or very little to back it up.

A case in point for the present discussion, what does MT do well as a coach, a question asked by a long time poster. I am unable to recall anyone attributing any specific thing that we as fans see him demonstrate as being the mark of a good coach. The only thing that gets bandied about is his record which has been shown to not be solely attributable to his coaching, although he may have some impact on it it is a team effort. After that we get Haters gona hate and you are a racist. None of that seems to answer the basic question.

To say you are going to wait for the next championship and you are satisfied with what has happened completely disregards the topic of discussion.

 

[ark steel]

At least, I've made an impression. Of course, I knew it would be misunderstood. Maybe, I didn't explain myself well.

Often, "defending Tomlin at every turn" means offering a possible explanation that doesn't start with the premise that "Tomlin sucks" and looks to back it up.

As I said. Some people like to read something other than negativity. Some people don't want that and must argue and nitpick.

 

[Vader]

I read an article today in the FANPOST that kinda sums this whole thread up into one message.....Here's a sample.

Perhaps Short (Or, at Least, Selective) Memories Are Making Us Too Critical

Getting back on topic, Cowher managed to kind of, sort of, almost right the ship by posting a 9-7 record the next season, causing us to be eliminated in the playoffs by way of tie-breakers.Because of that, he received a contract extension. He followed that up with a borderline out-of-nowhere 13-3 season that saw us run up to the AFC Championship game. However, late in that season leading into the beginning of the next is where we see things begin to unravel.

It was near the end of the season, we were playing the Bengals, and Jon effing Kitna was picking us apart through the air. As I sat there watching the game, I remember thinking to myself "My God, if other teams see how incapable our secondary is of stopping this kind of passing attack, we are absolutely doomed." Fast-forward to the AFC Championship game, and perhaps more importantly, to the first two games of the following season. New England and Oakland TORCHED our secondary in consecutive weeks. I was sure that the team was doomed.

And that's another point that frustrates me with the criticism of the secondary this year. Yes, they have made some head-scratching mistakes. But I have not seen wholesale inability to stop a passing game the likes of which the secondaries of the late 90s and early 2000s possessed.
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...at-least-selective-memories-are-making-us-too

What a total bunch of unmitigated ****. Someone quick tell me the score of the bungles game in 2001?... anybody? The Steelers lost in O.T. 26-23. Kitna threw the ball 63 times but only completed 35 for 411 yards. That defense was #3 in points and #1 in yards. They had a bad game that they lost BY 3 ******* POINTS. The bungles didn't even score 27 points on that defense. This is the problem with people talking out of their ***.

Now compare that one "horrible" game in 2001 where the Steelers lost in O.T. by 3 points and gave up a ton of yards but very few points to this years defense who gave up 27 points in regulation to Tampa Bay with Gannon at QB. Yea, Kitna is ******* horrible but Gannon is clear pro-bowler right? Or how about when this great defense gave up 31 points to the clowns the very next week along with 368 yards of total offense? Hell they gave up 408 yards to the bungles this year. The only difference is that the Steelers won the game and scored 42 points. Remember last year against NE? Brady was 22 of 33 for 432 yards 4 TD and 0 ints. But Yea, that 2001 team was ******* horrible... He hasn't seen the wholesale inability to stop the pass? Then WTF has he been watching?

BTW the 2012 Dallas game is almost identical to the 2001 bungles game. The Steelers lost 27-24. Romo is 30 of 42 for 341 yards 2 TDs 0 Ints. Which is much better than Kitna played in 2001.

 

[FAB802]

For all the what does Tomlin actually do talk, how many of you were in a room and witnessed exactly what Cowher did? You assume any changes or adjustments came from him, right? His assistants had no say, no contribution. His players didn't stop making mistakes and start executing better? He didn't finally get a franchise QB who changed everything for him? He didn't finally have a team with more talent than the opponent.

The same DC who gets so much credit for those great defenses is still here. Is he coaching them to not execute and blow coverages because he's become senile? Is Tomlin going around after him and changing what he's teaching? The fact that the talent on that side of the ball got old, and the replacements haven't turned out as good so far is a legitimate problem. They need to get it straight, and fast or the window to win it all with Ben and these weapons will close. Time will tell.

The offense is as good or better right now than any we've had in years. Brown and Bell are in the discussion as the top at their position in the league. No Steeler fan, no matter how much they love Ward or Bettis can say that about them while they were here. The line doesn't compare, but they are serviceable and getting better as they play more games as a unit. Ben is Ben, he's the common denominator. He is older, wiser and a better player for Tomlin than the young sandlot kid he was for Cowher or his coordinators. Tomlin got real lucky to have that guy already in place.

The Steelers have a chance to make the playoff's this season. Once you get in anything can happen. Anybody who tries to claim that there weren't people in here calling for Cowher's head multiple times were either not around, or have fading memories. The coaching staff as a whole can improve, and the front office absolutely needs to and quick. As long as this place exists there will be posters calling for the head of the head coach, it matters a damn who that coach happens to be.

It's been eight years and honestly I'm still on the fence with Tomlin. If he is let go it won't phase me, if they extend him it won't send me into a rage either. This post won't really accomplish anything. Like it's been said for a while now, depending on which side of the argument you've dug yourself into nobody is saying anything to convince the other side they are wrong. Maybe I'm just too old to get all wound up about who's patrolling the sidelines for the Steelers. I've only seen three guys in my lifetime do so. I'll take my chances with it working out, and let the worried folks do just that about the future they have no way of truly predicting.

 

[Punxsutawney]

What a total bunch of unmitigated ****. Someone quick tell me the score of the bungles game in 2001?... anybody? The Steelers lost in O.T. 26-23. Kitna threw the ball 63 times but only completed 35 for 411 yards. That defense was #3 in points and #1 in yards. They had a bad game that they lost BY 3 ******* POINTS. The bungles didn't even score 27 points on that defense. This is the problem with people talking out of their ***.

Now compare that one "horrible" game in 2001 where the Steelers lost in O.T. by 3 points and gave up a ton of yards but very few points to this years defense who gave up 27 points in regulation to Tampa Bay with Gannon at QB. Yea, Kitna is ******* horrible but Gannon is clear pro-bowler right? Or how about when this great defense gave up 31 points to the clowns the very next week along with 368 yards of total offense? Hell they gave up 408 yards to the bungles this year. The only difference is that the Steelers won the game and scored 42 points. Remember last year against NE? Brady was 22 of 33 for 432 yards 4 TD and 0 ints. But Yea, that 2001 team was ******* horrible... He hasn't seen the wholesale inability to stop the pass? Then WTF has he been watching?

BTW the 2012 Dallas game is almost identical to the 2001 bungles game. The Steelers lost 27-24. Romo is 30 of 42 for 341 yards 2 TDs 0 Ints. Which is much better than Kitna played in 2001.

Yeah, the insinuation that the pass defense is somehow better than it was in the late 1990s/early 2000s is so ridiculous, I do not really know what to do with it. The statisitics, as well as the eye test, just do not remotely support it.

I like a lot of the game video analysis of that site, but it seems like they pull a lot of the commentary/opinion stuff out of their ***.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I think the Tampa QB's name was Glennon, not Gannon.


Edit: Aw ****! I wasted my 1,000th post on Mike Glennon?

 

[Vader]

I think the Tampa QB's name was Glennon, not Gannon.


Edit: Aw ****! I wasted my 1,000th post on Mike Glennon?

Yea, Gannon was giving him too much credit. Glennon played in 5 games this year.. he is 1-4.. guess who the 1 win is against...

 

[Superman]

For all the what does Tomlin actually do talk, how many of you were in a room and witnessed exactly what Cowher did? You assume any changes or adjustments came from him, right? His assistants had no say, no contribution. His players didn't stop making mistakes and start executing better? He didn't finally get a franchise QB who changed everything for him? He didn't finally have a team with more talent than the opponent.

The same DC who gets so much credit for those great defenses is still here. Is he coaching them to not execute and blow coverages because he's become senile? Is Tomlin going around after him and changing what he's teaching? The fact that the talent on that side of the ball got old, and the replacements haven't turned out as good so far is a legitimate problem. They need to get it straight, and fast or the window to win it all with Ben and these weapons will close. Time will tell.

The offense is as good or better right now than any we've had in years. Brown and Bell are in the discussion as the top at their position in the league. No Steeler fan, no matter how much they love Ward or Bettis can say that about them while they were here. The line doesn't compare, but they are serviceable and getting better as they play more games as a unit. Ben is Ben, he's the common denominator. He is older, wiser and a better player for Tomlin than the young sandlot kid he was for Cowher or his coordinators. Tomlin got real lucky to have that guy already in place.

The Steelers have a chance to make the playoff's this season. Once you get in anything can happen. Anybody who tries to claim that there weren't people in here calling for Cowher's head multiple times were either not around, or have fading memories. The coaching staff as a whole can improve, and the front office absolutely needs to and quick. As long as this place exists there will be posters calling for the head of the head coach, it matters a damn who that coach happens to be.

It's been eight years and honestly I'm still on the fence with Tomlin. If he is let go it won't phase me, if they extend him it won't send me into a rage either. This post won't really accomplish anything. Like it's been said for a while now, depending on which side of the argument you've dug yourself into nobody is saying anything to convince the other side they are wrong. Maybe I'm just too old to get all wound up about who's patrolling the sidelines for the Steelers. I've only seen three guys in my lifetime do so. I'll take my chances with it working out, and let the worried folks do just that about the future they have no way of truly predicting.

Spot ******* on

 

[Superman]

I think the Tampa QB's name was Glennon, not Gannon.


Edit: Aw ****! I wasted my 1,000th post on Mike Glennon?

Easy mistake. Gannon picked us apart like we owed him money and he'd betted triple that amount in Vegas.