And it Begins:Special Prosecutor To Investigate Trump And Russia

[Tibs]

I have never seen people twisting **** so much to save the face of an ******* who cares absolutely nothing about them...nothing. The lack of connecting the dots is nothing short of astonishing.

Indeed, this board is a living example of cognitive dissonance if there ever was one.

 

[Sarge]

For my part, I am done with all of this nonsense. I am not going to argue things that have no basis in fact, and that is about all that is going on in this forum anymore. I am going to wait for charges against the President before I sentence him to prison. That said, it is astonishing how one man could surround himself with so many criminals, call them the best people, then when they get busted he calls them poopy heads. Sure, right now, none of it sticks to Trump, but the smart money says it is only a matter of time at this point. They will make something stick. It's gonna happen. This place should be a delight at that point.

 

[Sarge]

And something else. Nothing Manafort has been charged with or convicted of has anything to do with the "Russia Probe." Hell, even Cohen for that matter. Or Flynn. Or Papodopulous. This is a fishing expedition to remove Trump. I just wish the media and others would call it what it is. It's ok to call it what it is. You don't have to hide behind "Russia Probe."

 

[hamster]

And something else. Nothing Manafort has been charged with or convicted of has anything to do with the "Russia Probe." Hell, even Cohen for that matter. Or Flynn. Or Papodopulous. This is a fishing expedition to remove Trump. I just wish the media and others would call it what it is. It's ok to call it what it is. You don't have to hide behind "Russia Probe."

Yes, it is an investigation looking for a crime......a witch hunt. And it is designed to take down this President. Where us the Russian collusion? The answer....there never was any. It was all the contrived fairytale, presented as fact in the Steele Dossier. This is a soft coup attempt, pure and simple.

The left's hatred of this man has blinded them to the Constitution being used as toilet paper,,,by the Dems, the lefttard media, and lefties who just want to see this guy gone. We are setting a dangerous precedence. And the left, in their string of giddy hysterias, is too blind to see.

 

[Tibs]

You don't have to hide behind "Russia Probe."

The Russia probe is moving full steam ahead. All that's happened is key witnesses in that case have been found guilty on other charges, upping the pressure on them to cooperate 1,000X over. As Michael Cohen's lawyer stated last night, Cohen will testify against Trump, tell Mueller everything he knows, namely the truth about Donald Trump. Manafort, a 70 year old man facing decades in jail, will do likewise. Yes, the Russia probe investigating whether Trump and those closest to him committed conspiracy against the United States by working with Russian operatives - aiding and abetting an enemy - and whether Trump committed obstruction of justice by trying to squash or sway the investigation. These are all very much on the table, believe it or not.

 

[Sarge]

Yes, it is an investigation looking for a crime......a witch hunt. And it is designed to take down this President. Where us the Russian collusion? The answer....there never was any. It was all the contrived fairytale, presented as fact in the Steele Dossier. This is a soft coup attempt, pure and simple.

The left's hatred of this man has blinded them to the Constitution being used as toilet paper,,,by the Dems, the lefttard media, and lefties who just want to see this guy gone. We are setting a dangerous precedence. And the left, in their string of giddy hysterias, is too blind to see.

Plenty of people on the right that are ok with this too. I'm not. I don't care a whole lot for Trump as a person anymore, but he is doing the things he said he would do as President. Don't see that much anymore.

Whether you hate Trump or not, this should be concerning. In my view, I bet if you investigated every member of congress you could find plenty of criminal activity. Probably wouldn't have to look real hard. I figure it isn't going to be too much longer until somebody gets sick of all of this and starts shooting. Never would have thought something like that could happen in America, but then I was pretty sure there wouldn't be a terrorist training camp where kids were being taught to execute school shootings in America either.

What a ****** up nation we have become.

 

[Sarge]

The Russia probe is moving full steam ahead. All that's happened is key witnesses in that case have been found guilty on other charges, upping the pressure on them to cooperate 1,000X over. As Michael Cohen's lawyer stated last night, Cohen will testify against Trump, tell Mueller everything he knows, namely the truth about Donald Trump. Manafort, a 70 year old man facing decades in jail, will do likewise. Yes, the Russia probe investigating wether Trump and those closest to him committed conspiracy against the United States by working with Russian operatives - aiding and abetting an enemy - and whether Trump committed obstruction of justice by trying to squash or sway the investigation. These are all very much on the table, believe it or not.

So paying Stormy Daniels to be quiet about an affair is aiding and abetting the enemy? Who knew? Because at this point, that is what they have.

 

[SteelChip]

you mean aside from the previous administration illegally wiretapping and unmasking people in Trump's campaign?

There's always a way if you know what strings to pull

or not...there is always the 'Clinton Clause'.

 

[83fan]

So paying Stormy Daniels to be quiet about an affair is aiding and abetting the enemy? Who knew? Because at this point, that is what they have.

Violation of campaign finance law, it's illegal. Duncan Hunter and his wife were indicted for this. If trump wasn't president, he could have been as well, but won't be.

 

[Tibs]

So paying Stormy Daniels to be quiet about an affair is aiding and abetting the enemy? Who knew? Because at this point, that is what they have.

Sarge, I'm speaking of the ongoing special counsel investigation, not the verdicts brought down yesterday on seperate charges against Cohen and Manafort.

 

[hamster]

Sarge, I'm speaking of the ongoing special counsel investigation, not the verdicts brought down yesterday on seperate charges against Cohen and Manafort.

So you are saying that Mueller has already found evidence in the Trump Admin of Russian collusion, he just needs evidence to prove that it happened?

 

[Sarge]

Violation of campaign finance law, it's illegal. Duncan Hunter and his wife were indicted for this. If trump wasn't president, he could have been as well, but won't be.

Yes, I know about campaign finance law. Cohen violated it. Perhaps Trump did too. I bet Cohen says he did. If I was looking at the prison time Cohen is, I would say that too. Truth is Trump certainly knew about it. No doubt in my mind. Did he direct Cohen to do it? I would say very probably. Who has an attorney that does that and you don't know about it at least? Gonna be hard to prove that part though.

 

[Tibs]

So you are saying that Mueller has already found evidence in the Trump Admin of Russian collusion, he just needs evidence to prove that it happened?

I'm saying Mueller is a vested, extremely experienced and knowledgable prosecutor, former head of the FBI, who's handling this case with surgical precision. He will double down on every sliver of corroborating evidence and present an air-tight case, one way or another. More than anything else, it's my sincere belief Mueller is after the truth. The truth all Americans deserve to have. We are a country of laws and nobody - not even Donald J. Trump - is above the law.

 

[hamster]

I'm saying Mueller is a vested, extremely experienced and knowledgable prosecutor, former head of the FBI, who's handling this case with surgical precision. He will double down on every sliver of corroborating evidence and present an air-tight case, one way or another. More than anything else, it's my sincere belief Mueller is after the truth. The truth all Americans deserve to have. We are a country of laws and nobody - not even Donald J. Trump - is above the law.

Annnnnd, you didn't answer my question.

BTW, the Mueller team didn't even get half of the convictions they presented. So much for air tight,

 

[Sarge]

Sarge, I'm speaking of the ongoing special counsel investigation, not the verdicts brought down yesterday on seperate charges against Cohen and Manafort.

I know what you were talking about. My point is, all they have is the Stormy Daniels thing and that playboy model. None of which sticks to Trump. Yet. Neither does it prove any type of Russian collusion or aiding and abetting a foreign enemy.

My whole problem with this is they charged these guys with a **** ton of crimes in exchange for information on Trump. Now if it were me, I would tell them just about anything they wanted to hear to save my own skin. Maybe the information they will provide really is the truth, but how would you ever know? If I'm 70 years old looking at dying in prison, I'll tell you anything you want to hear. **** loyalty. I don't wanna die in prison. So would anyone else, regardless what they say. I have a hard time buying the notion that two guys with careers in criminal dishonesty are suddenly gonna be completely honest and accept their fate "for the good of the nation."

 

[Tibs]

Yes, I know about campaign finance law. Cohen violated it. Perhaps Trump did too. I bet Cohen says he did. If I was looking at the prison time Cohen is, I would say that too. Truth is Trump certainly knew about it. No doubt in my mind. Did he direct Cohen to do it? I would say very probably. Who has an attorney that does that and you don't know about it at least? Gonna be hard to prove that part though.

Sarge, don't forget a Judge doesn't accept a guilty plea from a defendant unless there's proof to corroborate his claims made under oath. That tells me there must be evidence of Trump specifically instructing Cohen to commit felonies. These may be audio tapes, emails, etc. -which we know the feds confiscated boxes of during the raids on Cohen's home & office - or other specific evidence that would back up his testimony. The only reason Trump hasn't been indicted on these charges is because he's the president.

 

[83fan]

Yes, I know about campaign finance law. Cohen violated it. Perhaps Trump did too. I bet Cohen says he did. If I was looking at the prison time Cohen is, I would say that too. Truth is Trump certainly knew about it. No doubt in my mind. Did he direct Cohen to do it? I would say very probably. Who has an attorney that does that and you don't know about it at least? Gonna be hard to prove that part though.

I'd say probably too, but who knows. Thing is Cohen has to have fool proof evidence of his claims to avoid prison time. If not, he's gonna be put away for a long time. Actually, is he avoiding prison time? I'm not even sure what he's facing truthfully. Cohen's no angel and a liar and out to save his own *** (who wouldn't), but he was a habitual liar's attorney so it's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out. I have no clue how it's gonna end other than he's going to be in trouble and trump remains bullet proof.

 

[Tibs]

...the information they will provide really is the truth, but how would you ever know?

Something called corroborating evidence. No way this investigation gets underway and is sustained to this extent without very specific evidence the prosecutors have in their possession. The sworn testimony and cooperation by Cohen and Manafort will only add to the facts already gathered in this case.

 

[oneforthebus]

Violation of campaign finance law, it's illegal. Duncan Hunter and his wife were indicted for this. If trump wasn't president, he could have been as well, but won't be.

If the allegations against Hunter are true, he stole campaign donations and used them for personal expenses. That is basically embezzlement, stealing.

It is hardly the same thing as paying off a mistress with your own money and the government twisting that into an illegal "campaign donation".

 

[Sarge]

Sarge, don't forget a Judge doesn't accept a guilty plea from a defendant unless there's proof to corroborate his claims made under oath. That tells me there must be evidence of Trump specifically instructing Cohen to commit felonies. These may be audio tapes, emails, etc. -which we know the feds confiscated boxes of during the raids on Cohen's home & office - or other specific evidence that would back up his testimony. The only reason Trump hasn't been indicted on these charges is because he's the president.

Or, Cohen admitted it. Don't really need corroborating evidence for that.

 

[Sarge]

Something called corroborating evidence. No way this investigation gets underway and is sustained to this extent without very specific evidence the prosecutors have in their possession. The sworn testimony and cooperation by Cohen and Manafort will only add to the facts already gathered in this case.

So charging a guy with campaign finance violations and tax fraud is some how corroborated by evidence aiding and abetting a foreign enemy? No, it is charging a guy with a bunch of **** hoping he gives you evidence of aiding and abetting a foreign enemy.

 

[Tibs]

Or, Cohen admitted it. Don't really need corroborating evidence for that.

There would need to be proof of Trump's involvement, that he specifically instructed Cohen to break the law. A judge wouldn't let that slide without having proof that it happened. The fact this is even in the offical charges against Cohen, that he was aided by Trump, should tell us that there is evidence that this happened, above and beyond Cohen saying it did.

 

[83fan]

If the allegations against Hunter are true, he stole campaign donations and used them for personal expenses. That is basically embezzlement, stealing.

It is hardly the same thing as paying off a mistress with your own money and the government twisting that into an illegal "campaign donation".

I'll listen to what the attorneys have to say, the ones who know about this stuff. I personally would say a violation of campaign funds is a violation of campaign funds no matter what they're used for and clearly a crime. Trump will be fine though since he's a sitting president, so only his credibility (as if he ever had any) will just be a little more destroyed than it already is, if that's at all possible.

 

[Tibs]

So charging a guy with campaign finance violations and tax fraud is some how corroborated by evidence aiding and abetting a foreign enemy? No, it is charging a guy with a bunch of **** hoping he gives you evidence of aiding and abetting a foreign enemy.

With all due respect you're missing the point here. These two are seperate - but connected - cases. Now charged with multiple felonies facing serious prison time for breaking federal election laws, Cohen has stepped forward that he will cooperate fully with Mueller in telling him the truth about Trump's involvement with election hacking and conspiracy with the Russians. Two branches of the same tree...if you will. Connected but different.

 

[Superman]

hold up a second...

how is paying someone off, and not speak of consensual sex, equate to a campaign finance violation? seems that money is paid out, and does not meet the definition of "donation"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/donation
Definition of donation
: the act or an instance of donating: such as
a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution
b : a free contribution : gift

even if you look at this...
https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/contribution-limits/

Contribution limits

Under the Federal Election Campaign Act (the Act), contributions are subject to limits. This page examines the rules concerning the limits placed on contributions to a candidate’s campaign. The limits apply to all types of contributions (except contributions made from a candidate’s personal funds).

It is important to note that a campaign is prohibited from retaining contributions that exceed the limits. In the event that a campaign receives excessive contributions, it must follow special procedures for handling such funds.

was this money paid INTO the Trump campaign or did Cohen pay money out of his own pocket, then in any round-about way be reimbursed by Trump? It's one of the other, not both.

That said, this is getting onto slippery ground for all future elections. EVERY politician will have to be super squeaky clean, because there will now be special counsel investigations launched by the losing party in all future elections.

**please remember, that this can all be undone when Trump leaves office via presidential pardon**