Are there any left?

[diver]

I didn't deny the blaming Tomlin for losses, which it's deserved. You seemed to ignore that players are routinely blamed each week. In fact, we have a Game Ball/GOAT/FU thread every week that lists them out.

Fair enough. Once I see the "All on Tomlin" posts I guess I see nothing else. And Tomlin does deserve blame for losses...just not "all."

 

[topseed]

That's damn right. Hence why I question why anyone, on either side of the argument here, is asked to explain why they feel a certain way. I recall very few posts begun on the topic of asking people to defend or apologize for their dislike of Mike Tomlin. Of course that is low hanging fruit, but still. If some miracle would happen and Mike Tomlin and the Steelers would win a Super Bowl in the next couple of years rest assured I would not start some post asking for an explanation from those who have been incessantly whining for his removal. I wouldn't give a shiit. They won.

I get a kick out of the fact that I have been reminded on occasion...this is a message board, and all that bullshiit. Yeah, it is. But doesn't that go both ways? The whole idea of asking someone to apologize for an opinion...on a message board...is kind of an inconsistency, eh? It is also just stupid, for so many reasons.

I already explained it to you. It's curious to me how somebody can watch the same bullshit from Tomlin that I do, over and over again, and somehow believe that this head coach is going to figure things out after 271 games. He doesn't have to apologize for it, just explain it.

What's stupid or inconsistent or smug is something like when Coryea asked you why you bother posting, and your insightful reply was "Why not?"

I've been telling you why, and either you don't want to hear it or you don't like the answer. It's not blind loyalty to Tomlin or not seeing the problems. So I'll tell you again. Guys like me who don't feel like we have to chant "Fire Tomlin" every 5 seconds probably fall somewhere in these reasons.

1. As discussed, we have no control.
2. Due to the undeniable fact of #1, we try to approach it with positivity. It's more fun that way.
3. It's not "All on Tomlin." Perhaps the dumbest of the dumb arguments being that he doesn't do what most impacts a football game...which unless something has changed is still play.
4. Some, like I, may come from a time and a background in which it was the players when the team did poorly. Mommy and Daddy didn't make excuses for us and blame the coach. They weren't calling up or accosting at practice a coach if we didn't play. So it's a little hard to grasp this it's all on the coach stuff.
5. The dumb arguments. #3 is the all time dumbest, but another of my top is "He won with Cowher players!" Bullshiit. He was the coach when they won, he gets the credit. It's stupid. Another is the "He has no coaching tree!" Well, if the tree dies it ain't a tree. There haven't been that many coaches with really successful trees in reality.
6. The results. That's enough! That is all the argument needed to make a change. The rest of it is just becoming insufferable.

I wasn't even talking about you specifically, chief, so you can get off of your high horse. YOU quoted MY post addressed to another person. But you're lumping yourself in, so it is what it is. You don't like reading about people wanting Tomlin gone? It's really simple -- don't open the f*cking thread.

1) As I said, no shlt.
2) Good for you.
3) No one with any sense has put it ALL on Tomlin. But when the thread is about Tomlin, we discuss Tomlin. Imagine that.
4) Not sure what Mommy and Daddy issues you may or may not have, but they're not relevant here.
5) Has he won with his players? Is his coaching tree bountiful?
6) No shlt. You're becoming insufferable, if you weren't already.

 

[topseed]

I’m looking at this,and it will probably be obvious but I can’t see it...what movie is this?

Twilight Zone.

 

[Phinnster]

I've been telling you why, and either you don't want to hear it or you don't like the answer. It's not blind loyalty to Tomlin or not seeing the problems. So I'll tell you again. Guys like me who don't feel like we have to chant "Fire Tomlin" every 5 seconds probably fall somewhere in these reasons.

1. As discussed, we have no control.
2. Due to the undeniable fact of #1, we try to approach it with positivity. It's more fun that way.
3. It's not "All on Tomlin." Perhaps the dumbest of the dumb arguments being that he doesn't do what most impacts a football game...which unless something has changed is still play.
4. Some, like I, may come from a time and a background in which it was the players when the team did poorly. Mommy and Daddy didn't make excuses for us and blame the coach. They weren't calling up or accosting at practice a coach if we didn't play. So it's a little hard to grasp this it's all on the coach stuff.
5. The dumb arguments. #3 is the all time dumbest, but another of my top is "He won with Cowher players!" Bullshiit. He was the coach when they won, he gets the credit. It's stupid. Another is the "He has no coaching tree!" Well, if the tree dies it ain't a tree. There haven't been that many coaches with really successful trees in reality.
6. The results. That's enough! That is all the argument needed to make a change. The rest of it is just becoming insufferable.

I see, so when they lose it's the players fault, but when they win Tomlin deserves the credit.

 

[diver]

I already explained it to you. It's curious to me how somebody can watch the same bullshit from Tomlin that I do, over and over again, and somehow believe that this head coach is going to figure things out after 271 games. He doesn't have to apologize for it, just explain it.

What's stupid or inconsistent or smug is something like when Coryea asked you why you bother posting, and your insightful reply was "Why not?"

I wasn't even talking about you specifically, chief, so you can get off of your high horse. YOU quoted MY post addressed to another person. But you're lumping yourself in, so it is what it is. You don't like reading about people wanting Tomlin gone? It's really simple -- don't open the f*cking thread.

1) As I said, no shlt.
2) Good for you.
3) No one with any sense has put it ALL on Tomlin. But when the thread is about Tomlin, we discuss Tomlin. Imagine that.
4) Not sure what Mommy and Daddy issues you may or may not have, but they're not relevant here.
5) Has he won with his players? Is his coaching tree bountiful?
6) No shlt. You're becoming insufferable, if you weren't already.

They don't even have to explain it. Who the hell are you that it has to be explained to you? This whole thing for me isn't about Tomlin per say. I object to the having to explain concept. I object to the original post calling anyone who supported Tomlin over the years...idiots. It's the same attitude as that jackass Madden always talking down to Steeler fans.

If no one with any sense puts it all on Tomlin, there are a hell of a lot of guys on here who have no damn sense. I have read that so often over the years.

Mommy and Daddy issues. That was good. But there is a definite difference in the way it used to be and more recent times. The first thing blamed is the coaching it seems like anymore. I never said coaching isn't important, but my experience was players play, they are more responsible.

Lombardi had no coaching tree. Belechick has no coaching tree. Noll didn't have much. And dammit, if the tree bears no fruit, it's useless, making the argument useless. If a coach has a tree or not has nothing to do with his ability as a coach. He won in '08. Nothing else matters. Would you rather he lost?

 

[diver]

I see, so when they lose it's the players fault, but when they win Tomlin deserves the credit.

I challenge you to find a post by me that ever stated that. It's a strawman. Whatever they do it's everyone's responsibility, win or lose. I've never posted "It's all on the players." But I have read so many "It's all on Tomlin" posts.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Lombardi had no coaching tree. Belechick has no coaching tree. Noll didn't have much. And dammit, if the tree bears no fruit, it's useless, making the argument useless. If a coach has a tree or not has nothing to do with his ability as a coach. He won in '08. Nothing else matters. Would you rather he lost?

Coaching trees are the result of winning, coordinators getting the most out of groups, or developing some sort of innovative scheme. Whether Tomlin has or or not isn't particularly relevant because the bottom line is he has not had a quality coaching staff in quite awhile.

 

[Lambert58]

They don't even have to explain it. Who the hell are you that it has to be explained to you? This whole thing for me isn't about Tomlin per say. I object to the having to explain concept. I object to the original post calling anyone who supported Tomlin over the years...idiots. It's the same attitude as that jackass Madden always talking down to Steeler fans.

If no one with any sense puts it all on Tomlin, there are a hell of a lot of guys on here who have no damn sense. I have read that so often over the years.

Mommy and Daddy issues. That was good. But there is a definite difference in the way it used to be and more recent times. The first thing blamed is the coaching it seems like anymore. I never said coaching isn't important, but my experience was players play, they are more responsible.

Lombardi had no coaching tree. Belechick has no coaching tree. Noll didn't have much. And dammit, if the tree bears no fruit, it's useless, making the argument useless. If a coach has a tree or not has nothing to do with his ability as a coach. He won in '08. Nothing else matters. Would you rather he lost?

Belichick has a coaching tree. Google is your friend.

 

[diver]

Belichick has a coaching tree. Google is your friend.

But the tree is dead. Does it matter then? None of them were any good. To use the coaching tree argument I would think success of the branches would be a pretty important element to that.

 

[SteelerFan448]

But the tree is dead. Does it matter then? None of them were any good. To use the coaching tree argument I would think success of the branches would be a pretty important element to that.

It's not necessarily about the success of a coaching tree, but rather the perception of a team and their X's and O's that gets coaches hired. No one even sniffs around the Steelers. After getting fired, Randy Fichtner is out of football and Matt Canada will never be an NFL OC again. I would guess that Teryl Austin won't be an NFL DC again once he is fired.

 

[Greg Lloyd]

Coaching trees are the result of winning, coordinators getting the most out of groups, or developing some sort of innovative scheme. Whether Tomlin has or or not isn't particularly relevant because the bottom line is he has not had a quality coaching staff in quite awhile.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

It's not necessarily about the success of a coaching tree, but rather the perception of a team and their X's and O's that gets coaches hired. No one even sniffs around the Steelers. After getting fired, Randy Fichtner is out of football and Matt Canada will never be an NFL OC again. I would guess that Teryl Austin won't be an NFL DC again once he is fired.

Head coaching is a tough job and few truly succeed. None of Belichick's have truly succeeded. Vrabel has been OK. Bill O'Brien is probably the biggest success because he won at Penn State and Houston and he'll likely get another head coaching job. McDaniels, Patricia, Romeo Crennel, Charlie Weiss, Brian Flores, Joe Judge, all got head coaching jobs and when it didn't work out, they got other coordinator jobs.

Even James Franklin has a bit of a tree. Manny Diaz took the Duke job. He's the 4th coordinator of Franklin's to leave for a head coaching job.

Tomlin's record of hiring coaches is awful. The funny thing is he did have a really good OC, Bruce Arians, and the steelers had to fire him because he was getting Ben killed. Arians also contributed to Andrew Luck's early retirement because he also took a beating under Arians. That stopped real quick when he got Tom Brady and Brady reigned in the Arians playground offense. Tomlin could have done the same. He could have told Bruce to add some short throws to the offense and not encourage the QB to hold the ball and look for big plays all game.

It is disturbing that Tomlin thought that Canada's offense was good. We were sold a bill of goods, that we weren't seeing the "real" Canada offense. First it was Ben's fault. Then Picket was a rookie. In year 3 we saw that this basic BS was the whole offense. Tomlin must have known that. He knew this high school crap was the plan and thought that was good enough to win in the NFL.

If I was Trubiski, I'd be hoping to get benched. Not that he's some star but this offense sets up the QB to fail. No pocket QB could look good in this offense. The only way would be to go off script.

 

[MT~Forged]

.

It is disturbing that Tomlin thought that Canada's offense was good. We were sold a bill of goods, that we weren't seeing the "real" Canada offense. First it was Ben's fault. Then Picket was a rookie. In year 3 we saw that this basic BS was the whole offense. Tomlin must have known that. He knew this high school crap was the plan and thought that was good enough to win in the NFL.

.

I have said, for almost 15 years that Tomlin doesn’t have any skills when it comes to X’s & O’s. This is why he has been so supportive of OC’s he has used. If he had these skills, then he would know that crap is just that, crap.

The Tampa 2 D is notorious for giving up big chunks of yardage in the middle of the field. It has been exposed time & time again, yet he still wants to run it. Why? Because that is all he knows.

 

[SanDiegoSteeler]

I bought a THE STANDARD IS THE STANDARD t-shirt Green Bay weekend. It's dijon mustard yellow.
After these last 2 losses I don't think I am going to wear it again.

I am SMH

 

[Slaine]

Regardless of what happens, the Tomlin schtick is stale. I think 448 was the one that wrote a really good account about how Philly moved on from Andy Reid, not because he was bad but because it was time for that organisation. Both have gone on to success since. I hope that they trade him but that's not the Steelers way sadly.

Imagine trading him for a quality QB. Tomlin to the Chargers for Herbert..? I can dream I suppose.

 

[BLITZ]

This was a painful thread to read. but true.

 

[Litos]

Fair enough. Once I see the "All on Tomlin" posts I guess I see nothing else. And Tomlin does deserve blame for losses...just not "all."

Somehow Tomlin always came back from an embarrassing loss, like the cardinals one with a big win, especially if it was a prime time game or against a contender, he bounced back with a strong performance and made you think, maybe, just maybe if he hires the correct coaches to do the x & o's he can deliver a SB run next season. But the correct hirings never came, though he did have the chance to keep flores and didnt as others have pointed out (maybe he saw him as a threat? Id bet on it). How is it the player's fault when they fail to execute a low % play, a terrible set of playcalls actually?

NOw it looks like he also lost the locker room. So who's fault is it to not having leaders? Maybe he does have them but lost their respect?

I think he is been done for a long while, but i also thought he would bounce back against the patriots like he always did in prime time to keep fans and media content with the product. But after last game, I think there are no more half measures that help him keep the team afloat, he lost the locker room and he lost the people's support.

 

[Misstha70’s]

I've been telling you why, and either you don't want to hear it or you don't like the answer. It's not blind loyalty to Tomlin or not seeing the problems. So I'll tell you again. Guys like me who don't feel like we have to chant "Fire Tomlin" every 5 seconds probably fall somewhere in these reasons.

1. As discussed, we have no control.
2. Due to the undeniable fact of #1, we try to approach it with positivity. It's more fun that way.
3. It's not "All on Tomlin." Perhaps the dumbest of the dumb arguments being that he doesn't do what most impacts a football game...which unless something has changed is still play.
4. Some, like I, may come from a time and a background in which it was the players when the team did poorly. Mommy and Daddy didn't make excuses for us and blame the coach. They weren't calling up or accosting at practice a coach if we didn't play. So it's a little hard to grasp this it's all on the coach stuff.
5. The dumb arguments. #3 is the all time dumbest, but another of my top is "He won with Cowher players!" Bullshiit. He was the coach when they won, he gets the credit. It's stupid. Another is the "He has no coaching tree!" Well, if the tree dies it ain't a tree. There haven't been that many coaches with really successful trees in reality.
6. The results. That's enough! That is all the argument needed to make a change. The rest of it is just becoming insufferable

He won with Cowher's players....lol lol .....If is wasn't a sticking point why would sooooooo many people say those very words....lol he sucks

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Coaching trees are the result of winning, coordinators getting the most out of groups, or developing some sort of innovative scheme. Whether Tomlin has or or not isn't particularly relevant because the bottom line is he has not had a quality coaching staff in quite awhile.

Because left to his devices, Shades promotes his coordinators from within and he limits his assistant coaching hires to people he knows or worked with before.
His best coordinators were the three he DIDN’T hire.
At the very least Deuce needs to take away the car keys when it comes to hiring coordinators. If Shades wants to quit over that, so be it.

 

[Coryea]

Because left to his devices, Shades promotes his coordinators from within and he limits his assistant coaching hires to people he knows or worked with before.
His best coordinators were the three he DIDN’T hire.
At the very least Deuce needs to take away the car keys when it comes to hiring coordinators. If Shades wants to quit over that, so be it.

Shades was interviewing the GM candidates as well.

 

[MT~Forged]

.

Imagine trading him for a quality QB. Tomlin to the Chargers for Herbert..? I can dream I suppose.

that would be a good trade, but again putting the cart before the horse. You would have to bring in a new HC and saddle him with a QB that may not fit his scheme. Better deal would be Tomlin for picks, then let the new guy build his own team.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Shades was interviewing the GM candidates as well.

Probably why we got an internal promotion after an “exhaustive nationwide search”.
I’m okay with Omar but I always knew it was going to be Omar.

 

[Coryea]

Probably why we got an internal promotion after an “exhaustive nationwide search”.
I’m okay with Omar but I always knew it was going to be Omar.

My biggest thing I take away from that is Tomlin has last say in the draft too.

 

[MT~Forged]

Shades was interviewing the GM candidates as well.

You never let employees have say in hiring their bosses, ever. The GM should be hired by the ownership group, then let that person decide on his HC. After the HC is brought onboard the GM & HC choose the rest of the coaching staff.

problems today result from one person too low on the food chain having too much control. If you TRULY believe that the HC is qualified to ALSO assume the GM duties, then promote the HC to GM, and hire a new HC. It’s not just a issue of too much control, the jobs are too big to do both at the same time. Ownership needs to keep everyone in their own lanes.

I originally had thought that maybe Tomlin should have been promoted to GM, maybe not now, but I did. His team philosophy of limit turnover risk on O and a bend but don’t break D is not a bad way to go. I just don’t feel HE is the person to implement it. With the right coaches and players, It could work, I just don’t NOW have the confidence Tomlin could stay hands off in the day to day planning.

 

[MT~Forged]

My biggest thing I take away from that is Tomlin has last say in the draft too.

The HC should have input in the draft, a lot of it, as well as ALL other coaches, but the GM and player personnel person should be deciding on the picks. If you are constantly butting heads with the HC, then he is not the HC you need. Ideally the HC would be picked by the GM to implement HIS team philosophy, and as such would share their vision. The HC would be ASSISTING in finding players needed to fill X’s & O roles to implement the GM’s vision.