Are there any left?

[str8liner]

We're just "chafing". So accept it people.

I watched the whole vid....why does everyone keep defending him, and even Eisen in that vid (at the end) says he doesn't "love their results."

WTF? I don't know what else to say.....

I cant watch his smug ***. Soon as he starts talking you know he thinks he knows more than you do......

 

[Cras108er]

I don't call myself a Tomlin apologist, but I do consider myself a "realist." This team does not operate like other NFL teams, and that is the reason for our success over the last 40-50 years. So, I'm not on the "off with their heads" bandwagon - whoever "they" is this week. I think there are some in this fan base who would fire a different person every week. That strategy is not a recipe for success if you don't address the real problem. Just look at what firing Canada did for us. We're still in the same boat. So here is what i think is the problem. If you are looking for knee jerk reactions to every loss, then you're probably following the wrong team.

In my opinion, the problem with this team is that we are a young team that lacks positive veteran leadership. Leaders who can relate to the curret generation of players. These leaders have far more influence than any coach could ever have. They are the ones who make sure the younger players are minding their business. We've always had players like Bettis, Farrior, Ward, etc. who had the respect of their teammates and held them accountable. I think that person now is Cam Heyward, but I'm not sure he has the influence with this generation of players that he may have once had. That's why you have players coming out in the media saying, "we took them too lightly." The current generation is a different breed. What worked yesterday, won't work today.

Yes, Tomlin is the head coach, and is ultimately responsible for everything, but you can't expect him to be that voice in the locker room, any more than you expect your senior leaders at work to have their fingers in every detail at your place of employment. He needs to be able to work through savvy veterans to reach these younger players. I believe that void is what is causing the problems with this team lately. If Tomlin has a role in this, it is not recognizing that he can't be that person anymore. He was a thirty something year old coach when he was hired, and had the advantage of being the same age asa many of the players. He's now over fifty and is no longer viewed the same way by younger players as he was back in the day.

He needs to recognize that there is a problem and be able to bring in some people (probably through free agency) that can help improve the team chemistry. Right now there is none. The current problems seem to nip at the heels of both his biggest strength and his biggest weakness. His strength is leadership and being able to relate to players. His biggest weakness is stubbornness and unwillingness to change. He's got to be willing to change with the times or he is going to (if he hasn't already) become irrelevant.

 

[Cras108er]

The problem with the original post IMO is that it does something similar to what Mark Madden does in every article he writes. The fat *** has to begin every article with how stupid and gullible Steeler fans are, how we are sucked into believing the lies and blah, blah. Well, to me it is a false argument. It is not being tricked or fooled, or rose colored glasses or the like, it is an understanding of the fact that we have no control over the situation. When you realize that it then becomes how you approach it. I choose to approach every Steeler season like I do a day of trout fishing or hunting, for example. I go out there thinking it's gonna be a good day. If it isn't, I deal with it and move on. I don't feel I have to apologize for anything, especially something I can't control and my attitude, whatever it is, has no impact on an outcome.

Mike Tomlin needs to go. Please let it be so. But if they don't, more than likely I will approach the season next year like I have been. I just don't see that as being a Mike Tomlin apologist. Another thing, if I would be all angry and upset over things, losing my allegiance wouldn't hurt the Steelers one bit. I rarely go to games anymore, I don't buy merchandise. I watch them if they are on...if not I don't go out of my way to watch them. If the weather is nice I don't watch them as much as I used to. So I can be mad as hell and the Steelers would have no reason to give a shiit. They lose nothing losing me.

I've become the same way. It makes life a whole lot easier. Too many fans have their personal identity wrapped up in the success or failure of the team. The reality is that whether they win another SB trophy or not, it doesn't change my life one iota. Good post.

 

[Cras108er]

Top 5 QB #1 WR and #1RB and what did they win? Technically nothing. They got embarrassed in the AFCCG once.

I still say Ben got jipped out of at least 2 or 3 Super Bowl appearances and another ring because of this guy.

Meanwhile Hoodie was stacking Lombardi's like cord wood with Tom, and a bunch of scrubs.

If y'all want people to stop being Tomlin apologists, you might start by recognizing that Ben was not a victim. Ben had some atrocious games in big moments. He was surrounded by some of the best talent and failed to capitalize on it. He could have been one of those veteran players I spoke about in my previous post that was a positive force with younger players, but I don't know that he was. He was too busy creating drama in the media with "leaked" information about his injuries or exposing his teammates. He continues to play the same role with his podcast today. I never heard any players speak of him in the same way that they did of Bettis, Ward, etc.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Punx, you put it best. The Steelers whole attitude has switched to playing not to lose. That happens game to game and now season to season. Do just enough to finish above .500 and you're good. They've played passively for at least three years in a row at the expense of developing a real offense for the sole reason of trying to win some games with no real shot of contending in the playoffs.

A reason I believe could argue Tomlin won with Cowher's players is because of the locker room. Cowher's locker rooms weren't always the best, but when they were, the group of players and leaders were special. Tomlin has never been able to cultivate a true winning locker room with his own guys. It can be masked by regular season wins and they had some good season over the years, but never when it counted. Now things are unraveling and you hear how players aren't taking things seriously and expecting good things to happen just by putting on the jersey.

Tomlin has been a great representative for the team and city, but the bottom line is competing for championships and the Steelers are not winning playoff games anymore. There is a shelf life for coaches and Tomlin has more than exceeded his. This team needs a fresh perspective to move forward and the Steelers don't need to approach it as though they need to find their coach for the next 15+ years.

The hard part is with Tomlin being here so long, he's such a part of the organization is is going to be close with the people at the top. How in the world are they going to make that move?

 

[jiminoh]

The hard part is with Tomlin being here so long, he's such a part of the organization is is going to be close with the people at the top. How in the world are they going to make that move?

Like other teams do. The people at the top need to recognize what's going on....for a few years now. Finally my buddy conceded that maybe Tomlin needs to be on a different team, or in the broadcast booth.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Like other teams do. The people at the top need to recognize what's going on....for a few years now. Finally my buddy conceded that maybe Tomlin needs to be on a different team, or in the broadcast booth.

The family aspect is a lot to overcome for a team run like the Steelers. I'm just trying to think realistically from ARII's POV.

 

[Psychoward86]

Big ben was a Once in a lifetime talent tgat could play instinctively at a high level with a crap oline and dumbass offense.

And even with him we really sheltered his passing game for the first 4 years of his career.

We will never find that guy again because he just doesn’t exist.. we need to adapt our offense to fit a normal QB.. we can’t play for fourth quarter comebacks every game.. that isn’t a good gameplan

Thank you!! I've been saying the same thing for years. It didn't take long for me to see how Tomlin was literally wasting away the rarest of opportunities a football organization has and that's having a HOF qb on the team. You look at most organizations and they've had 1 or 2 play for their team since the superbowl era began. Some will not realize until many years later how good Ben was all the way up to the end really. He kept the team winning and afloat for many years. Heck he's like number 2 alltime in come from behind wins that should tell us something. Many just aren't old enough to remember the post Bradshaw era when we had Malone, brister, Stewart, tomzac, Maddox ect.

 

[MT~Forged]

People every day get terminated for below average performance over a period of time. It has nothing to do with them being bad people or them not being liked. It has everything to do with job performance. We see coaches terminated all the time for far less than Tomlin’s mediocre results.
Why is it Tomlin cannot be held accountable?

Because of the PERCEPTION of firing a Black coach that made the Rooney rule possible. I don’t think race has a bit to do with anything, but you know some will play the race card, one is even on this board.

 

[MT~Forged]

Rooney tells Tomlin, " I can't fire you, but you can resign".

And why would he willingly resign?

 

[Booted]

 

[Gildong Sack]

Like other teams do. The people at the top need to recognize what's going on....for a few years now. Finally my buddy conceded that maybe Tomlin needs to be on a different team, or in the broadcast booth.

This is kind of related to your post and it's kind of not, but it's ironic.The guy they used to call dumb...doesn't seem so dumb now does he?

 

[topseed]

The problem with the original post IMO is that it does something similar to what Mark Madden does in every article he writes. The fat *** has to begin every article with how stupid and gullible Steeler fans are, how we are sucked into believing the lies and blah, blah. Well, to me it is a false argument. It is not being tricked or fooled, or rose colored glasses or the like, it is an understanding of the fact that we have no control over the situation. When you realize that it then becomes how you approach it. I choose to approach every Steeler season like I do a day of trout fishing or hunting, for example. I go out there thinking it's gonna be a good day. If it isn't, I deal with it and move on. I don't feel I have to apologize for anything, especially something I can't control and my attitude, whatever it is, has no impact on an outcome.

Mike Tomlin needs to go. Please let it be so. But if they don't, more than likely I will approach the season next year like I have been. I just don't see that as being a Mike Tomlin apologist. Another thing, if I would be all angry and upset over things, losing my allegiance wouldn't hurt the Steelers one bit. I rarely go to games anymore, I don't buy merchandise. I watch them if they are on...if not I don't go out of my way to watch them. If the weather is nice I don't watch them as much as I used to. So I can be mad as hell and the Steelers would have no reason to give a shiit. They lose nothing losing me.

Yes, diver, you've made it known time and time again that that we, as fans, have no control over the situation. So I guess I'll say it one more time: No shlt. We know that. But this is a message board, where Steelers fans come to discuss that very situation. For whatever personal reasons they choose.

So when someone says that they like Mike Tomlin, and they believe that he can still "figure it out" after seventeen years, I have to question that. I have to try and understand why a diehard Steelers fan, obstensibly like myself, who's willing to come in here on a fairly regular basis to spend time and effort talking about them, can see things so differently as I do. And if they're annoyed about continuing to have to defend and apologize for a head coach who CLEARLY has the team headed in the worng direction, I'd like to know why. Call it morbid curiousity.

 

[topseed]

Great movie.

 

[diver]

Yes, diver, you've made it known time and time again that that we, as fans, have no control over the situation. So I guess I'll say it one more time: No shlt. We know that. But this is a message board, where Steelers fans come to discuss that very situation. For whatever personal reasons they choose.

So when someone says that they like Mike Tomlin, and they believe that he can still "figure it out" after seventeen years, I have to question that. I have to try and understand why a diehard Steelers fan, obstensibly like myself, who's willing to come in here on a fairly regular basis to spend time and effort talking about them, can see things so differently as I do. And if they're annoyed about continuing to have to defend and apologize for a head coach who CLEARLY has the team headed in the worng direction, I'd like to know why. Call it morbid curiousity.

That's damn right. Hence why I question why anyone, on either side of the argument here, is asked to explain why they feel a certain way. I recall very few posts begun on the topic of asking people to defend or apologize for their dislike of Mike Tomlin. Of course that is low hanging fruit, but still. If some miracle would happen and Mike Tomlin and the Steelers would win a Super Bowl in the next couple of years rest assured I would not start some post asking for an explanation from those who have been incessantly whining for his removal. I wouldn't give a shiit. They won.

I get a kick out of the fact that I have been reminded on occasion...this is a message board, and all that bullshiit. Yeah, it is. But doesn't that go both ways? The whole idea of asking someone to apologize for an opinion...on a message board...is kind of an inconsistency, eh? It is also just stupid, for so many reasons.

 

[diver]

Yes, diver, you've made it known time and time again that that we, as fans, have no control over the situation. So I guess I'll say it one more time: No shlt. We know that. But this is a message board, where Steelers fans come to discuss that very situation. For whatever personal reasons they choose.

So when someone says that they like Mike Tomlin, and they believe that he can still "figure it out" after seventeen years, I have to question that. I have to try and understand why a diehard Steelers fan, obstensibly like myself, who's willing to come in here on a fairly regular basis to spend time and effort talking about them, can see things so differently as I do. And if they're annoyed about continuing to have to defend and apologize for a head coach who CLEARLY has the team headed in the worng direction, I'd like to know why. Call it morbid curiousity.

I've been telling you why, and either you don't want to hear it or you don't like the answer. It's not blind loyalty to Tomlin or not seeing the problems. So I'll tell you again. Guys like me who don't feel like we have to chant "Fire Tomlin" every 5 seconds probably fall somewhere in these reasons.

1. As discussed, we have no control.
2. Due to the undeniable fact of #1, we try to approach it with positivity. It's more fun that way.
3. It's not "All on Tomlin." Perhaps the dumbest of the dumb arguments being that he doesn't do what most impacts a football game...which unless something has changed is still play.
4. Some, like I, may come from a time and a background in which it was the players when the team did poorly. Mommy and Daddy didn't make excuses for us and blame the coach. They weren't calling up or accosting at practice a coach if we didn't play. So it's a little hard to grasp this it's all on the coach stuff.
5. The dumb arguments. #3 is the all time dumbest, but another of my top is "He won with Cowher players!" Bullshiit. He was the coach when they won, he gets the credit. It's stupid. Another is the "He has no coaching tree!" Well, if the tree dies it ain't a tree. There haven't been that many coaches with really successful trees in reality.
6. The results. That's enough! That is all the argument needed to make a change. The rest of it is just becoming insufferable.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Lol,, someone loves mikey

 

[SteveA]

Tomlin apologists???

Are there any left?

I have been one of his biggest supporters....Felt proud to have him as our coach...Applauded his leadership, & how players want to play for him...I've quoted on years past his winning % which over the last 3 years has taken a huge hit...I have loved the Tomlinism's...

I got nothing...

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I've been telling you why, and either you don't want to hear it or you don't like the answer. It's not blind loyalty to Tomlin or not seeing the problems. So I'll tell you again. Guys like me who don't feel like we have to chant "Fire Tomlin" every 5 seconds probably fall somewhere in these reasons.

1. As discussed, we have no control.
2. Due to the undeniable fact of #1, we try to approach it with positivity. It's more fun that way.
3. It's not "All on Tomlin." Perhaps the dumbest of the dumb arguments being that he doesn't do what most impacts a football game...which unless something has changed is still play.
4. Some, like I, may come from a time and a background in which it was the players when the team did poorly. Mommy and Daddy didn't make excuses for us and blame the coach. They weren't calling up or accosting at practice a coach if we didn't play. So it's a little hard to grasp this it's all on the coach stuff.
5. The dumb arguments. #3 is the all time dumbest, but another of my top is "He won with Cowher players!" Bullshiit. He was the coach when they won, he gets the credit. It's stupid. Another is the "He has no coaching tree!" Well, if the tree dies it ain't a tree. There haven't been that many coaches with really successful trees in reality.
6. The results. That's enough! That is all the argument needed to make a change. The rest of it is just becoming insufferable.

#1 is not a fact at all. It's flat out wrong. If you don't think Canada was fired due to fan backlash, you're crazy.

Let steeler games start looking like Pitt games with empty seats and AR2 will start listening hard. I bet he's already listening as the Canada firing suggests. Tomlin isn't going anywhere this year but he is now officially out of buffers. Now it's on him.

I love this notion that it's just all on the players to play better. Why bother even having coaches then if they are not accountable to their players under performing?

There's a saying that when a student fails a test, that's on the student for not studying enough. When most of the class fails, that's on the teacher for not teaching it well enough.

Well, most of the steeler "class" has been failing for years and the test grades are going lower.

Let's also consider that Tomlin was hired with training wheels. He inherited a super bowl caliber team and he was forced to keep the coaching staff of very experienced coaches like Lebeau and Arians. As the coaches left for various reasons, Tomlin did an awful job of hiring replacements.

I can only think of 2 (maybe 3) good coaching hires by Tomlin. Flores was a good hire but that was kind of an outlier situation. I would have counted it as a good hire of Tomlin fired Austin and made Flores the DC, but he didn't. The other 2 good hires. WR coach Darryl Drake and OL Mike Munchak. Munchak was kind of a fish that jumped in the boat but still a good hire. Drake was great, but unfortunately passed away. The WRs have been shaky ever since.

Are hiring coaches not on Tomlin either?

Steelers never admit the internal draft decisions, but it seems apparent that Tomlin had the most say over Colbert. The drafts under Tomlin have been hit or miss with far too many big misses like trading up for Devin Bush, a truly awful football player. Now it appears Tomlin's role in personnel decisions has been greatly reduced with the new combo of Kahn and Weidl calling the shots. The immediate result was one of the best offseasons in a very long time.

Tomlin apologists tend to say the following are not on the head coach
Player discipline
player performance
offensive play calling
defensive play calling
draft
free agency

To quote the movie Office Space -- What exactly, Do you do here?

Get credit for wins and get excuses for everything else apparently.

 

[Steelmann]

Great movie.

I’m looking at this,and it will probably be obvious but I can’t see it...what movie is this?

 

[diver]

#1 is not a fact at all. It's flat out wrong. If you don't think Canada was fired due to fan backlash, you're crazy.

Let steeler games start looking like Pitt games with empty seats and AR2 will start listening hard. I bet he's already listening as the Canada firing suggests. Tomlin isn't going anywhere this year but he is now officially out of buffers. Now it's on him.

I love this notion that it's just all on the players to play better. Why bother even having coaches then if they are not accountable to their players under performing?

There's a saying that when a student fails a test, that's on the student for not studying enough. When most of the class fails, that's on the teacher for not teaching it well enough.

Well, most of the steeler "class" has been failing for years and the test grades are going lower.

Let's also consider that Tomlin was hired with training wheels. He inherited a super bowl caliber team and he was forced to keep the coaching staff of very experienced coaches like Lebeau and Arians. As the coaches left for various reasons, Tomlin did an awful job of hiring replacements.

I can only think of 2 (maybe 3) good coaching hires by Tomlin. Flores was a good hire but that was kind of an outlier situation. I would have counted it as a good hire of Tomlin fired Austin and made Flores the DC, but he didn't. The other 2 good hires. WR coach Darryl Drake and OL Mike Munchak. Munchak was kind of a fish that jumped in the boat but still a good hire. Drake was great, but unfortunately passed away. The WRs have been shaky ever since.

Are hiring coaches not on Tomlin either?

Steelers never admit the internal draft decisions, but it seems apparent that Tomlin had the most say over Colbert. The drafts under Tomlin have been hit or miss with far too many big misses like trading up for Devin Bush, a truly awful football player. Now it appears Tomlin's role in personnel decisions has been greatly reduced with the new combo of Kahn and Weidl calling the shots. The immediate result was one of the best offseasons in a very long time.

Tomlin apologists tend to say the following are not on the head coach
Player discipline
player performance
offensive play calling
defensive play calling
draft
free agency

To quote the movie Office Space -- What exactly, Do you do here?

Get credit for wins and get excuses for everything else apparently.

#1 is not wrong. If it was, Canada would have been gone a hell of a lot sooner than he was. Fan backlash had nothing to do with it.

I never said it was all on the players to play better. Never. I have always stated it is both. I never posted something like..."this loss is all on the players." However I have seen many, many, "This loss is all on Tomlin" posts.

 

[SteelerFan448]

#1 is not wrong. If it was, Canada would have been gone a hell of a lot sooner than he was. Fan backlash had nothing to do with it.

I never said it was all on the players to play better. Never. I have always stated it is both. I never posted something like..."this loss is all on the players." However I have seen many, many, "This loss is all on Tomlin" posts.

All the posts blaming Pickett, Diontae dropping a pass, showing the OL not blocking, calling out the defense for not making plays all do not count?

 

[diver]

With some of your other points, don't confuse a more nuanced outlook with being a Tomlin apologist. Player discipline. I'll admit I wouldn't know how to handle player discipline. My instinct is to sit or cut their *****. George Pickens and Diontae Johnson should both be somewhere else. But who the hell are they gonna throw to? So saying he sucks in player discipline...maybe you are right. But what do you do? What would actually work with these overindulged, had their ***** sniffed since they were 12, immature, social media obsessed players? Who make millions and maybe because of that winning doesn't mean as much? But pointing out that it isn't all cut and dry isn't being a Tomlin apologist.

 

[diver]

All the posts blaming Pickett, Diontae dropping a pass, showing the OL not blocking, calling out the defense for not making plays all do not count?

Explain to me the "This loss is all on Tomlin" posts? Words mean things. All is pretty definitive.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Explain to me the "This loss is all on Tomlin" posts? Words mean things. All is pretty definitive.

I didn't deny the blaming Tomlin for losses, which it's deserved. You seemed to ignore that players are routinely blamed each week. In fact, we have a Game Ball/GOAT/FU thread every week that lists them out.