Canada Will Return in 2023

[topseed]

But, yeah...I never said it was great logic. I don't give a shiit about logic. I just thought it would be fun to take the bet as you never know. And the fact is you never do know. Lighten up, Francis.

Clearly.

But also, and a main part of my point is, that many on this forum wanted Cowher run out on a damn rail after he lost that game. But now, oh, we all thought he was great. We knew it all along. What a bunch of shiit.

Cowher's greatness is debatable. And of course we were all frustrated with his AFCCG losses. But the fact of the matter is, we can look back now on his career and understand that he had built a team in his own image, and eventually he and that team became good enough to compete for and win Super Bowls before he retired.

Here in 2023 and entering his 17th season, longer than Cowher coached, what exactly has Mike Tomlin built? Nothing. Nothing but an organization that now somehow seemingly takes great pride in finishing at 9-8, because it adds another non-losing season to the record of their third coach in 50+ years. Nowhere near being able to vie for a championship, but just good enough to appease the masses who don't give a shlt about logic. Just like you.

 

[TDX27]

I said it before. Tomlin is rewarding all coaches (bad or even worse) because the team kept his streak alive. Our ST's will suck next year. The O will be better only because KP will be better and they will hopefully have a top OL pick (if they're smart but definitely not a given). The O still won't put up enough points to win games on their own. The D will still have to do the heavy lifting.

 

[Stryker]

The Drive and The Fumble years!....Was a great time to be a Steeler fan if you lived near Cleveland. lol

I won a game of taboo once with a large group of our friends. The guessword was FUMBLE but you coudn't say football, quarterback, runningback, etc. My parter said Earnest Byner and I immediately yelled out FUMBLE!

 

[madinsomniac]

I won a game of taboo once with a large group of our friends. The guessword was FUMBLE but you coudn't say football, quarterback, runningback, etc. My parter said Earnest Byner and I immediately yelled out FUMBLE!

I moderately blame the Steelers for not coming back in that playoff loss a few years back… adding “ The choke” to that list should have been a given

 

[SteelerFan448]

Clearly.

Cowher's greatness is debatable. And of course we were all frustrated with his AFCCG losses. But the fact of the matter is, we can look back now on his career and understand that he had built a team in his own image, and eventually he and that team became good enough to compete for and win Super Bowls before he retired.

Here in 2023 and entering his 17th season, longer than Cowher coached, what exactly has Mike Tomlin built? Nothing. Nothing but an organization that now somehow seemingly takes great pride in finishing at 9-8, because it adds another non-losing season to the record of their third coach in 50+ years. Nowhere near being able to vie for a championship, but just good enough to appease the masses who don't give a shlt about logic. Just like you.

The Cowher/Tomlin comparisons will always be there but I think what is missed from those who say fans wanted Cowher out is there was a divided between those who were unhappy he lost AFC Championship games and those who still thought he was good because it felt like the Steelers had a chance to get there every year.

Tomlin has a similar divide with those who think the Steelers should make the playoffs and win a game compared to those who are happy to just be in contention or just to make it nearly every year.

Noll = Super Bowls
Cowher = AFC Championship games
Tomlin = Playoffs
Next Coach = .500 record? (Jeff Fisher?)

 

[topseed]

The Cowher/Tomlin comparisons will always be there but I think what is missed from those who say fans wanted Cowher out is there was a divided between those who were unhappy he lost AFC Championship games and those who still thought he was good because it felt like the Steelers had a chance to get there every year.

Tomlin has a similar divide with those who think the Steelers should make the playoffs and win a game compared to those who are happy to just be in contention or just to make it nearly every year.

Noll = Super Bowls
Cowher = AFC Championship games
Tomlin = Playoffs
Next Coach = .500 record? (Jeff Fisher?)

But Tomlin hasn't even made the playoffs in 3 out of the last 5 seasons. The bar has consistently been getting lower and lower.

That's what I'm talking about when I ask about what MT has built. None of us were happy about losing the bigger playoff games under Cowher, but at least there was a decent chance at being able to win it all -- and the team had an identity. What's currently identifiable about the Steelers after 16 years under Tomlin? One word: Mediocrity.

 

[BLITZ]

The Cowher/Tomlin comparisons will always be there but I think what is missed from those who say fans wanted Cowher out is there was a divided between those who were unhappy he lost AFC Championship games and those who still thought he was good because it felt like the Steelers had a chance to get there every year.

Tomlin has a similar divide with those who think the Steelers should make the playoffs and win a game compared to those who are happy to just be in contention or just to make it nearly every year.

Noll = Super Bowls
Cowher = AFC Championship games
Tomlin = Playoffs
Next Coach = .500 record? (Jeff Fisher?)

Cowher had a franchise QB 3 years and made it to an AFC Championship, and won a SB

 

[Hypocycloids]

I moderately blame the Steelers for not coming back in that playoff loss a few years back… adding “ The choke” to that list should have been a given

Oh but "The Choke" did happen in 2002!!
The wild card playoff game. Clowns leading 24-7 in the third quarter. Tommy Maddox brough the Steelers back to win 33-31.

ESPN | NBA.com | WNBA.com | NHL.com | ABC | Radio | EXPN | Page 2 | INSIDER | FANTASY

Sunday, January 5 Maddox leads Steelers all the way back

RECAP | BOX SCORE| PLAY BY PLAY | DRIVE CHART PITTSBURGH (AP) -- The Cleveland Browns never have gotten over The Drive by John Elway. Now they've got to live with The Comeback by the quarterback who was once supposed to be the next Elway. ​ Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala scores the winning touchdown for the Steelers with 54 seconds left. Tommy Maddox, the NFL's Comeback Player of the Year, led one of Pittsburgh's greatest comebacks by throwing three touchdown passes in the final 19 minutes as the Steelers rallied from a 17-point deficit to stun the Browns 36-33 Sunday in an AFC wild-card game. Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala's 3-yard touchdown run with 54 seconds left secured the Steelers' most dramatic come-from-behind playoff victory since Franco Harris' Immaculate Reception against Oakland in 1972. They trailed 17-7 at the half,

 

[BLITZ]

Oh but "The Choke" did happen in 2002!!
The wild card playoff game. Clowns leading 24-7 in the third quarter. Tommy Maddox brough the Steelers back to win 33-31.

ESPN | NBA.com | WNBA.com | NHL.com | ABC | Radio | EXPN | Page 2 | INSIDER | FANTASY

Sunday, January 5 Maddox leads Steelers all the way back

RECAP | BOX SCORE| PLAY BY PLAY | DRIVE CHART PITTSBURGH (AP) -- The Cleveland Browns never have gotten over The Drive by John Elway. Now they've got to live with The Comeback by the quarterback who was once supposed to be the next Elway. ​ Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala scores the winning touchdown for the Steelers with 54 seconds left. Tommy Maddox, the NFL's Comeback Player of the Year, led one of Pittsburgh's greatest comebacks by throwing three touchdown passes in the final 19 minutes as the Steelers rallied from a 17-point deficit to stun the Browns 36-33 Sunday in an AFC wild-card game. Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala's 3-yard touchdown run with 54 seconds left secured the Steelers' most dramatic come-from-behind playoff victory since Franco Harris' Immaculate Reception against Oakland in 1972. They trailed 17-7 at the half,

Nice! that was the Kendrell Bell game right?

 

[JMM]

No point in steering now..

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Cowher made a lot of changes to his staff. Many were due to assistants getting head coaching gigs, but there were several for performance.

His first OC was Ron Erhardt who had won a SB under Parcels with the Giants. He was all about power football. It seemed a perfect fit for the Steelers. But Cowher replaced him with Chan Gailey who was innovative in the passing game. Erhardt was OC in name only in the end. It was Gailey's offense. Gailey put in the 5 wide sets. During the SB vs the Cowboys, NFL films has the audo of Cowher deciding about the onside kick. He asks Gailey for his input.

People think Cowher was conservative martyball, but that's not exactly true. When he had the QB and the weapons, he opened it up and threw the ball. He let O'Donnell throw quite a bit. But then he was saddled with a bunch of stiffs at QB and then the Kordell experiment. As soon as Maddox got in there Cowher opened up again.

The point is, Cowher was willing to change with the talent he had and change coaches when they weren't producing. Cowher also had a talent for hiring great young coaches which is why so many of his assistants became head coaches.

Tomlin's record of hiring assistants is abysmal. Aside from the sure thing of Munchak,

 

[SteelBuckeye]

The Cowher coaching tree includes: Dom Capers, Dick LeBeau, Marvin Lewis, Chan Gailey, Mike Mularkey, David Culley, Jim Haslett and, Ken Whisenhunt.
Some of them had success for a while. But, by and large, it's a tree that fizzled out as far as being coaches who were equal to, or surpassed their mentor. Capers and Haslett probably came the closest. While Whisenhunt had a SB appearance and Lewis lasted the longest as a HC (Although one could argue that his long tenure was a result of his ability to work with a cheap owner). And, Yes, LeBeau was a great defensive mind and coordinator. He was not a great HC.
But, at least Cowher had assistants that were innovative and bright enough that other teams wanted them for HC gigs.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

The point is, Cowher was willing to change with the talent he had and change coaches when they weren't producing. Cowher also had a talent for hiring great young coaches which is why so many of his assistants became head coaches.

Tomlin's record of hiring assistants is abysmal. Aside from the sure thing of Munchak,

That's the biggest thing. Arguably the two worst OC's in team history were hired by Cowher, Sherman and Gilbride, but at least he got rid of them when they sucked.
Try as I might, I can't think of any of Tomlin's assistants who were fired. They either left on their own, retired, or were forced out by other people, but only when their contracts were up.
Last year's OL coach was horrible and left in the middle of the season and they didn't try to stop him. That might be the closest we had to someone being fired.

 

[diver]

Clearly.

Cowher's greatness is debatable. And of course we were all frustrated with his AFCCG losses. But the fact of the matter is, we can look back now on his career and understand that he had built a team in his own image, and eventually he and that team became good enough to compete for and win Super Bowls before he retired.

Here in 2023 and entering his 17th season, longer than Cowher coached, what exactly has Mike Tomlin built? Nothing. Nothing but an organization that now somehow seemingly takes great pride in finishing at 9-8, because it adds another non-losing season to the record of their third coach in 50+ years. Nowhere near being able to vie for a championship, but just good enough to appease the masses who don't give a shlt about logic. Just like you.

For the love. Nowhere did I endorse Mike Tomlin's job performance. Nowhere. I challenge you to find where I did. In fact, I have stated on a number of occasions I think he should be fired. I simply said I'd take the bet because you never know. It ain't your money. And what the heck, it might be fun. You have really taken leap here.
I have no illusions about Mike Tomlin. But as you pointed out, as it pertains to Cohwer...looking back. Those positive things were not being said in early 2005. You speak of logic...the logic being used then was since he hadn't won a Super Bowl yet, he wouldn't. Well, my point is that logic makes no sense. Shiit, if that would be the case, the Steelers never would have won anything based on their first 40 years. The fact that Tomlin and the Steelers could build a championship team I just don't think is an impossible thought. Impossible to me means is there is absolutely no way it could ever happen. I just don't think you can ever say that.

 

[topseed]

For the love. Nowhere did I endorse Mike Tomlin's job performance. Nowhere. I challenge you to find where I did. In fact, I have stated on a number of occasions I think he should be fired.

Yeah, that's your M.O. On one hand say Tomlin should be fired, and on the other hand say it's the players' fault. Then all the bases are covered.

Like when the Steelers were one of the best teams in the league in 2017, finishing 13-3, but you later defended Tomlin going one-and-done because he had taken AB and Bell as far as they could possibly go. Remember that conversation?

I simply said I'd take the bet because you never know. It ain't your money. And what the heck, it might be fun. You have really taken leap here.

Right. Because you said yourself that you don't give a shlt about logic. Obviously. Where's the leap?

I have no illusions about Mike Tomlin. But as you pointed out, as it pertains to Cohwer...looking back. Those positive things were not being said in early 2005. You speak of logic...the logic being used then was since he hadn't won a Super Bowl yet, he wouldn't. Well, my point is that logic makes no sense. Shiit, if that would be the case, the Steelers never would have won anything based on their first 40 years.

Maybe that was YOUR logic (if you gave a shlt back then) in early 2005, but it wasn't universal. And, in retrospect, it certainly wasn't logical, because BC went on to win it that very year. In fact, I recall being one of many who were very optimistic when the Steelers drafted Ben that a Super Bowl victory would be coming sooner than later, because all Cowher's team needed was a good quarterback.

The fact that Tomlin and the Steelers could build a championship team I just don't think is an impossible thought. Impossible to me means is there is absolutely no way it could ever happen. I just don't think you can ever say that.

But Tomlin isn't building a championship team. He hasn't even made the playoffs in three of the last five years. Cowher built a team that was winning playoff games and playing for conference championships, but coming up short. Tomlin is nowhere close to that now like Cowher was in 2005. I see that you can't understand the difference.

It's not impossible that I could win the lottery tomorrow...you never know.

 

[JMM]

Teams under Cowher excelled with the premise of making the scheme fit the talent that was on the roster. Not the other way around.

If oh Canada can do the same, I'm good with that and it appeared that from about the mid point of the season, he was playing the cards he was dealt. If he goes back to trying to bang a square peg into an octagonal hole again, ship him out. Just my .02

 

[Ron Burgundy]

But Tomlin isn't building a championship team. He hasn't even made the playoffs in three of the last five years. Cowher built a team that was winning playoff games and playing for conference championships, but coming up short. Tomlin is nowhere close to that now like Cowher was in 2005. I see that you can't understand the difference.

The Bungles have won more playoff games in the last 2 years than we have in the last 12.

 

[MTC]

The Bungles have won more playoff games in the last 2 years than we have in the last 12.

The stars are out of alignment or it’s the end of times

 

[Steelmann]

The Bungles have won more playoff games in the last 2 years than we have in the last 12.

That’s rather nauseating.

 

[diver]

Yeah, that's your M.O. On one hand say Tomlin should be fired, and on the other hand say it's the players' fault. Then all the bases are covered.

Like when the Steelers were one of the best teams in the league in 2017, finishing 13-3, but you later defended Tomlin going one-and-done because he had taken AB and Bell as far as they could possibly go. Remember that conversation?


Right. Because you said yourself that you don't give a shlt about logic. Obviously. Where's the leap?


Maybe that was YOUR logic (if you gave a shlt back then) in early 2005, but it wasn't universal. And, in retrospect, it certainly wasn't logical, because BC went on to win it that very year. In fact, I recall being one of many who were very optimistic when the Steelers drafted Ben that a Super Bowl victory would be coming sooner than later, because all Cowher's team needed was a good quarterback.


But Tomlin isn't building a championship team. He hasn't even made the playoffs in three of the last five years. Cowher built a team that was winning playoff games and playing for conference championships, but coming up short. Tomlin is nowhere close to that now like Cowher was in 2005. I see that you can't understand the difference.

It's not impossible that I could win the lottery tomorrow...you never know.

Now wait. The players share no responsibility when the team fails? It is all the coach, even though the coach never plays? And yes, upon reflection, I think I have been proven right on that one. He may have taken that team as far as it was gonna go with those two guys. Neither of them are the picture of stability as we have found out. I always love when people like you use terms like "appease the masses," like I am being fooled somehow. No, I just recognize that there is not a damn thing I can do about who they choose to coach the team. Why incessantly beat the dead horse on it? Or are you one of those who really believes if they biitch enough, or don't watch a game here and there, or don't go, or don't buy a jersey...that'll show Rooney, he'll fire him now! Hahaha.

The way I see it, we have a choice as fans. We can either be all doom and gloom, or even when we don't agree with something, since we have no control, try to find something positive and have a little hope. For crying out loud, it's more fun that way. It's supposed to be fun, right?

 

[SteelerSask2]

At least with every other franchise the coach is responsible for the players performance and the results that come from that. I look at the 49ers yesterday and think to myself there is absolutely no reason that cannot be the Steelers next season. With the exception of Bush the Steelers have everything on defense to be that good. If it's another 9-8 bubble playoff next year if they do not make a measurable step forward in the quality and look of the wins you would have to be stupid to want to continue down this path. But here is the thing there will always be an excuse. Someone will get hurt cause it's football. But I thought excuses were tools of the incompetent?

 

[diver]

At least with every other franchise the coach is responsible for the players performance and the results that come from that. I look at the 49ers yesterday and think to myself there is absolutely no reason that cannot be the Steelers next season. With the exception of Bush the Steelers have everything on defense to be that good. If it's another 9-8 bubble playoff next year if they do not make a measurable step forward in the quality and look of the wins you would have to be stupid to want to continue down this path. But here is the thing there will always be an excuse. Someone will get hurt cause it's football. But I thought excuses were tools of the incompetent?

I have never said Tomlin shouldn't be held responsible. He should be. I also blame the players. Regardless of who the coach is, you need better players. They are 9-8 for a number of reasons. Coaching for sure is one. Players who don't make plays is another. I like Terrell Edmunds, for example, but he makes no big plays. Diontae Johnson. Is it Tomlin's fault he runs backwards or can't keep his feet in bounds? It is gonna take both...better coaching and better players.

 

[SteelerSask2]

I have never said Tomlin shouldn't be held responsible. He should be. I also blame the players. Regardless of who the coach is, you need better players. They are 9-8 for a number of reasons. Coaching for sure is one. Players who don't make plays is another. I like Terrell Edmunds, for example, but he makes no big plays. Diontae Johnson. Is it Tomlin's fault he runs backwards or can't keep his feet in bounds? It is gonna take both...better coaching and better players.

Well I'd be in the camp of lets keep Edmunds because not everyone is a big playmaker. Some just play steady and do their job, tackle well and let the playmakers make the plays. In the end its the coaches job to get the most out of the players and replace the substandard. And that does not need to happen only at he end of the year. Bush should have been replaced by a combination of Spillane and Robinson 8 weeks before he was.

 

[slashsteel]

I have never said Tomlin shouldn't be held responsible. He should be. I also blame the players. Regardless of who the coach is, you need better players. They are 9-8 for a number of reasons. Coaching for sure is one. Players who don't make plays is another. I like Terrell Edmunds, for example, but he makes no big plays. Diontae Johnson. Is it Tomlin's fault he runs backwards or can't keep his feet in bounds? It is gonna take both...better coaching and better players.

That would be the HC and GMs responsibility to have a team with better players. If I stock your fridge with beenie weenies, you can't get mad at the weenies for the absence of steak and lobster.

 

[Drink IRON City]

The Bungles have won more playoff games in the last 2 years than we have in the last 12.

The Bungles are playing better than average ball, wouldn’t you expect them to lead the PO race as opposed to our STEELERS barely playing over .500 ball.

Imagine if we could get our players to play to their full talent and in a scheme that actually helped our guys in their strengths.

We’ve had talent capable teams but seems we get the minimal out of them.


Salute the nation