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Derek Chauvin Trial

A beacon of reason in the middle of a foggy sea. Good on ya, Stainless. (y)
you're calling STAINLESS a beacon of reason in the middle of a foggy sea?
STAINLESS?

I've met Stainless. he's not a beacon. nor even a beacon of reason. and if he's the beacon of reason in your foggy sea, it's likely he caused the fog. and is waiting patiently for the ship to meet the rocks.

no offense, Stainless.
 
Yet Indy, you're in shock & awe and cry foul when millions unite and fill the streets to raise their voices in protest. It's exactly the type of cruel, cynical, bullshit attitudes such as yours that causes the backlash and the rioting.

'There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem.'

Keep yucking it up and poke fun at a man who was brutally murdered in broad daylight while handcuffed, face-down on the streets of America. Wonder how you'd feel if that was your brother, or your uncle.

Just don't pretend to be shocked and dismayed when people rise up to stand against police brutality & callous, arrogant, flippant attitudes such as yours.
 
Well, expected from you.

Now do Chauvin.
You think I like that ******** cop? I don't. I just think ALL the facts need to be heard and seen before convicting him of murder. Facts like: trouble breathing, foaming at the mouth and falling unconscious are all signs of a drug overdose. The toxicology report doesn't lie.
 
You think I like that ******** cop? I don't. I just think ALL the facts need to be heard and seen before convicting him of murder. Facts like: trouble breathing, foaming at the mouth and falling unconscious are all signs of a drug overdose. The toxicology report doesn't lie.

None of that is clear to me other than you posting about what a piece of **** Floyd was, stupid memes and talking points.
 
Yet Indy, you're in shock & awe and cry foul when millions unite and fill the streets to raise their voices in protest. It's exactly the type of cruel, cynical, bullshit attitudes such as yours that causes the backlash and the rioting.

'There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem.'

Keep yucking it up and poke fun at a man who was brutally murdered in broad daylight while handcuffed, face-down on the streets of America. Wonder how you'd feel if that was your brother, or your uncle.

Just don't pretend to be shocked and dismayed when people rise up to stand against police brutality & callous, arrogant, flippant attitudes such as yours.
Those misguided ***** who ignore crime as the root cause do not protest. They riot, burn, loot, destroy and attack innocent people and businesses. They get zero respect from me.
 
None of that is clear to me other than you posting about what a piece of **** Floyd was, stupid memes and talking points.
I posted memes about Michael Brown and Trayngel too. All three of them were criminal thugs on the wrong side of the law and they do not deserve to be martyrs. They'd all still be alive if they made better choices.
 
I posted memes about Michael Brown and Trayngel too. All three of them were criminal thugs on the wrong side of the law and they do not deserve to be martyrs. They'd all still be alive if they made better choices.

Like I said, stupid memes and talking points.
 
Sad and pathetic. Oh it's just Indy being himself, nevermind.
 
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And factual.
To you they are.

You speak of people making better choices and they wouldn't be in the position they are, but that door swings both ways. Chauvin wouldn't be in the position he is in if he had made better choices that day as well.

Everything isn't just black and white, and I try to look at things from different perspectives. You speak about the protests that happened over the summer and paint all of them with a broad brush of breaking out into riots. There were WAY more protests that the news didn't show, because they didn't break out into violence and the media loves the drama. Of course once they realized it was hurting Biden more than Trump they kind of went low key on that coverage. Didn't want to hurt ole Biden with that.

As far as Michael brown and Trayvon: The Brown shooting was justified, but it did end having the DOJ investigate the Ferguson police and uncover issues within that dept. There is a whole report on it you can find online, but I'm sure you aren't interested. Trayvon, yes he could have made a better choice to not attack Zimmerman, but you know, Zimmerman could have made a better choice in listening to the dispatcher telling him not to follow. He wasn't a cop and it wasn't his part to play for the neighborhood watch.

Eh, whatever. You do you.
 
Yet Indy, you're in shock & awe and cry foul when millions unite and fill the streets to raise their voices in protest. It's exactly the type of cruel, cynical, bullshit attitudes such as yours that causes the backlash and the rioting.

'There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem.'

Keep yucking it up and poke fun at a man who was brutally murdered in broad daylight while handcuffed, face-down on the streets of America. Wonder how you'd feel if that was your brother, or your uncle.

Just don't pretend to be shocked and dismayed when people rise up to stand against police brutality & callous, arrogant, flippant attitudes such as yours.
oh, wait.

its a tad bit further than uniting and filling streets with voices when you burn shops, homes, businesses and neighborhoods to the ******* ground after looting them.
 
You speak of people making better choices and they wouldn't be in the position they are, but that door swings both ways. Chauvin wouldn't be in the position he is in if he had made better choices that day as well.

No doubt. He's been fired, is being prosecuted and likely to spend a lot of time in jail.

Floyd made a lifetime of bad choices, seemed to be doing a lot better in Minneapolis, but took a very dangerous drug that a lot of experts believe played a significant role in his death. For prosecution of a crime for causing harm, the unknown condition that can lead to serious harm is a big issue. In tort law, you "take the victim as you find him," i.e., it is no defense that you were unaware the person had a condition which predisposed him to more serious injury. That is called the "eggshell plaintiff" theory.

However, in criminal law, where motive and intentional behavior must be proved for the harm to have resulted, an unknown condition can negate intent. If I punch someone in the stomach, and unknown to me the person suffers from hemophilia, suffers internal bleeding and dies, I am guilty of assault, possibly aggravated assault and manslaughter, but not murder.

This is why a lot of us bring up the drug use issue - not because we are racist white supremacists rooting for the black man to die, but because these facts matter in terms of what crime Chauvin may have committed.'

Everything isn't just black and white, and I try to look at things from different perspectives. You speak about the protests that happened over the summer and paint all of them with a broad brush of breaking out into riots. There were WAY more protests that the news didn't show, because they didn't break out into violence and the media loves the drama. Of course once they realized it was hurting Biden more than Trump they kind of went low key on that coverage. Didn't want to hurt ole Biden with that.

Wait, broad brush and Indy or anybody else? You mean like the January 6 riots, where hundreds of thousands did nothing wrong and Decaf is screeching about "locking them up and throwing away the key"? Like that? Or like the "mostly peaceful" refrain where the Floyd riots directly resulted in more than $2 billion in property damage and at least 17 people have been killed? Or what about the "white supremacist" chant for January 6 protesters, when there is literally zero evidence of any significant racial component at all to the entire protest and that line is a lie furthered by moron mouth-foamers like Decaf?

Like that broad brush approach?

As far as Michael brown and Trayvon: The Brown shooting was justified, but it did end having the DOJ investigate the Ferguson police and uncover issues within that dept. There is a whole report on it you can find online, but I'm sure you aren't interested. Trayvon, yes he could have made a better choice to not attack Zimmerman, but you know, Zimmerman could have made a better choice in listening to the dispatcher telling him not to follow. He wasn't a cop and it wasn't his part to play for the neighborhood watch.

What you say in both instances is true, NC, but what you fail to mention is the avalanche of allegations to the contrary. Brown shooting racially motivated, Brown shooting not justified, Brown shot in the back, Brown had his hands up, Martin a little kid who did nothing to warrant Zimmerman using force, Zimmerman a Hispanic white supremacist.

Finally, your comment about very few things being black and white is certainly true. Perhaps the protester class could take that to heart.
 
No doubt. He's been fired, is being prosecuted and likely to spend a lot of time in jail.

Floyd made a lifetime of bad choices, seemed to be doing a lot better in Minneapolis, but took a very dangerous drug that a lot of experts believe played a significant role in his death. For prosecution of a crime for causing harm, the unknown condition that can lead to serious harm is a big issue. In tort law, you "take the victim as you find him," i.e., it is no defense that you were unaware the person had a condition which predisposed him to more serious injury. That is called the "eggshell plaintiff" theory.

However, in criminal law, where motive and intentional behavior must be proved for the harm to have resulted, an unknown condition can negate intent. If I punch someone in the stomach, and unknown to me the person suffers from hemophilia, suffers internal bleeding and dies, I am guilty of assault, possibly aggravated assault and manslaughter, but not murder.

This is why a lot of us bring up the drug use issue - not because we are racist white supremacists rooting for the black man to die, but because these facts matter in terms of what crime Chauvin may have committed.'



Wait, broad brush and Indy or anybody else? You mean like the January 6 riots, where hundreds of thousands did nothing wrong and Decaf is screeching about "locking them up and throwing away the key"? Like that? Or like the "mostly peaceful" refrain where the Floyd riots directly resulted in more than $2 billion in property damage and at least 17 people have been killed? Or what about the "white supremacist" chant for January 6 protesters, when there is literally zero evidence of any significant racial component at all to the entire protest and that line is a lie furthered by moron mouth-foamers like Decaf?

Like that broad brush approach?



What you say in both instances is true, NC, but what you fail to mention is the avalanche of allegations to the contrary. Brown shooting racially motivated, Brown shooting not justified, Brown shot in the back, Brown had his hands up, Martin a little kid who did nothing to warrant Zimmerman using force, Zimmerman a Hispanic white supremacist.

Finally, your comment about very few things being black and white is certainly true. Perhaps the protester class could take that to heart.

Well, I certainly could have addressed more in the big picture if I felt like writing a novel, but was just responding to Indy's comments in particular. Any "broad brush" painting of entire groups off of the actions of a few is not something I participate in. So, that would include looking at the actions of some nutball white people and calling all white people racist as well as looking at criminal actions of some black people and calling all black people thugs and criminals. It is a case by case basis.

Yes, I realize what was said about Zimmerman, Martin and Brown. Again, answering Indy's comment about them.......not going to write a novel about it.
 
Yes, I realize what was said about Zimmerman, Martin and Brown. Again, answering Indy's comment about them.......not going to write a novel about it.

Not just "what was said," but in fact what is the prevailing idea on those individuals and their actions. The ideological fodder have overrun the truth.

As to "writing a novel" - the truth is complex. You state that few things are black-and-white. Okay. Agreed. In the innumerable cases where the matter is gray, then some analysis is warranted.
 
At this point of any trial, when only the prosecution has presented their case, if you aren't 100% convinced of guilt NOW, then the prosecution has a real big problem.

We haven't even GOTTEN to the interesting parts of this trial yet.

There is a reason the defense goes second in criminal trials. It is to give the defense of the "innocent" the greatest chance of success. And gives the State an even greater burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

It is what it is. There has been a lot of evidence that has made me pause and lean towards manslaughter at this point. I think the prosecution is doing a pretty good job. You win reasonable doubt by pounding away witness, after witness, after witness, all saying the same things. If you can just wear down a juror of any doubt by sheer numbers of "expert witnesses" you increase your chance of a guilty verdict.

But I am sure the defense will call their own expert witnesses as well. Doctors that know a lot about drug reactions, side effects and overdoses.

What percentage of "death caused by knee" vs. "death caused by drugs" needs to exist before Chauvin is either guilty of murder or innocent? 10% drugs, 90% knee? 50% drugs, 50% knee? 90% drugs, 10% knee?

Even after the prosecution's case, it is clear that BOTH factors contributed to his death. It is very likely that had Floyd not had drugs in his system, he would probably still be alive. It is also likely that had Chauvin not continued to kneel on his back after he was subdued and handcuffed for 5-6 unnecessary minutes, he would probably still be alive.

Both those statements can both be true at the same time. And how we decide murder in those situations is often tricky and ugly.

I mean, if you drink 15 shots, but I encourage you to drink 5 more shots and then you die, am I guilty of murder? What if it is you drink 20 shots and I encourage just one more? If 10 people in front of me start stoning a person, but MY stone stops his heart from beating, who gets the murder conviction? If someone jumps from a building, falls in front of me and is almost dead and I refuse to help, then he/she dies, am I guilty of murder when help might have saved his life?

I mean, all these situations are very tricky to convict or call murder.
 
I can't see him going for anything other than manslaughter.
 
Well, I certainly could have addressed more in the big picture if I felt like writing a novel, but was just responding to Indy's comments in particular. Any "broad brush" painting of entire groups off of the actions of a few is not something I participate in. So, that would include looking at the actions of some nutball white people and calling all white people racist as well as looking at criminal actions of some black people and calling all black people thugs and criminals. It is a case by case basis.

Yes, I realize what was said about Zimmerman, Martin and Brown. Again, answering Indy's comment about them.......not going to write a novel about it.

LOL "not going to write a novel about it"...in other words "nothing to see here"

Since your all about the facts, would you then agree then that blacks disproportionately commit most of the violent crimes?...or would you consider that a racist comment as well?
 
No doubt. He's been fired, is being prosecuted and likely to spend a lot of time in jail.

Floyd made a lifetime of bad choices, seemed to be doing a lot better in Minneapolis, but took a very dangerous drug that a lot of experts believe played a significant role in his death. For prosecution of a crime for causing harm, the unknown condition that can lead to serious harm is a big issue. In tort law, you "take the victim as you find him," i.e., it is no defense that you were unaware the person had a condition which predisposed him to more serious injury. That is called the "eggshell plaintiff" theory.

However, in criminal law, where motive and intentional behavior must be proved for the harm to have resulted, an unknown condition can negate intent. If I punch someone in the stomach, and

"Mistakes" to our lib George Floyd apologists.
You know who you are.
 
LOL "not going to write a novel about it"...in other words "nothing to see here"

Since your all about the facts, would you then agree then that blacks disproportionately commit most of the violent crimes?...or would you consider that a racist comment as well?
FBI statistics will show that your statement is mostly accurate, I don't put the blame on those individuals, but a white Texan by the name of Lyndon Johnson.
 
FBI statistics will show that your statement is mostly accurate, I don't put the blame on those individuals, but a white Texan by the name of Lyndon Johnson.
Gee you don’t think Johnson’s plan to replace the black father with a welfare check backfired do you?
 
Interesting aspect of this trial, to say the least. Maybe they're trying to tell you something.

An unprecedented lineup of law enforcement officers -- including the Minneapolis police chief -- took the stand at the murder trial of former officer Derek Chauvin, denouncing him for kneeling on the neck of George Floyd for more than nine minutes.

As rare as it is for police-involved deaths to lead to a criminal trial -- let alone a conviction -- the sight of the top cop and other brass testifying against a former subordinate is even rarer.

Chief Medaria Arradondo on Monday thoroughly rejected Chauvin's actions and use of force during the arrest of Floyd last May as contrary to department policy.

"Once there was no longer any resistance and clearly, when Mr. Floyd was no longer responsive and even motionless, to continue to apply that level of force to a person proned out, handcuffed behind their back -- that in no way shape or form is anything that is by policy," the police chief told the jury. "It is not part of our training, and it is certainly not part of our ethics or our values."

The piercing of the so-called blue wall of silence -- an unwritten code that has long restrained cops from implicating fellow officers accused of misconduct -- in one Minneapolis courtroom has been widely praised following a summer of protest, unrest and a social reckoning with American systemic racism.

"It is unprecedented," Baltimore City State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby said. "You have police officers. You have training officers. You have the police chief who is willing to testify in direct opposition to Chauvin's extensive use of force. That does not happen every day."
 
Based upon what little I saw, the chief medical examiner didn't really seem to be the greatest witness for the prosecution.
 
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