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Ferguson?

You're suggesting someone snatching a couple a cigarettos off a counter at a convenience store deserves to get blasted, shot dead in cold blood. Nice. You should sign up with the National Guard near you, they'll be needing your ilk on the streets in the near future. ;)

That's not what he's suggesting, at all, dipshit.
 
It also bothers me to see an increasingly omnipresent, militarized police force, along with the erosion of citizen's rights.

Can you explain how this applies to Wilson and Brown? I believe it was one cop in one cruiser and Brown, correct? He was packing a pistol, not an RPG. He wasn't driving a Humvee. What is your point?

As far as citizens rights, I'm with you. Would you please start crying equitably for all victims? I haven't seen you cry for the Bosnian beaten to death in St. Louis by black teens with hammers.

Oh wait...that doesn't fit the Liberal narrative. HIS rights don't matter.
 
Tibs is just taking up the voice of today's youth. You are not allowed to use what I've done in the past as a reason to believe accusations that I'm guilty of something.....aka. "Yeah I been suspended 20 times from school this year, so the **** what? How dare you take someone else word over mine now, that ain't fair".

In today's world, my past actions (even ones I made 10 minutes ago) should have NO bearing on my character. That was then, this is now and you have no right to judge me. That's how we got here now at this point in time. That and raising children to hate from birth.
 
Can you explain how this applies to Wilson and Brown? I believe it was one cop in one cruiser and Brown, correct? He was packing a pistol, not an RPG. He wasn't driving a Humvee. What is your point?
You're right, it's not directly connected. But the fact that police around the country have been arming themselves to the teeth is part of the overall narrative. To me that's the same mentality, one of brute force, that would allow a cop to open fire on a guy running down the street. Police are getting mighty frisky, you've got to wonder where do your rights end and their rights begin? Flying drones over U.S. cities, NSA surveillance abounds, what kind of rights does anyone have? This stuff used to be science fiction, but it's happening. I don't support anything this kid Mike Brown was involved in, nor do I condone his behavior, the manner in which he spoke to this cop, or not following his instructions. It's clear he did a bunch of stuff he shouldn't have, but I don't believe any of this bs about why - and how - Wilson shot this kid.

But Spike's right, it's over, who gives a ****? I don't, got enough things to worry about...like how ****** the Steelers have been playing of late.
 
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The thug is dead - get over it

I have no white guilt, my ancestors came from coal mining Poland
Mine were stomping grapes in Italy.
 
It's clear he did a bunch of stuff he shouldn't have, but I don't believe any of this bs about why - and how - Wilson shot this kid.

Then you are simply ignorant of or willfully ignoring evidence.

It's true witness accounts varied...but physical evidence doesn't lie. Wilson was punched. Michael Brown's hand was very near Wilson's gun when he he was shot in the hand inside Wilson's car. Blood spatter evidence and shell casings show Brown was moving toward Wilson when he was shot, and was a mere 8-10 feet from him when the fatal wound hit. These are facts. No, you don't read about these details too often and in too many places, because thy don't fit the preferred narrative.It's amazing to me how discredited witness accounts that are contradicted by physical evidence are still considered as facts by some people.

No, actually it's not amazing. If the Trayvon Martin case taught us anything, it's that people will believe what they want to believe, despite direct and incontrovertible evidence to the contrary.
 
To me that's the same mentality, one of brute force, that would allow a cop to open fire on a guy running down the street.

In six years on the force, Wilson never once fired his gun before this incident. That is pretty typical of every cop I've ever met . Most have never had to use their weapon. Most hope they never, ever have to. Yeah, that kind of brute force mentality.
 
Mine were stomping grapes in Italy.

A fine tradition.

My mom was still getting her dad's black lung benefits for decades.

it kept me in macaroni and cheese and Salisbury steaks forever, my mom was also a school cook...that's right, platters of Apple Crisp with brown sugar


oh yeah.........I'll outlive all y'all
 
I hear you oneforthebus, the case just seems fishy to me from several angles, that's all. My trust of authority must be eroding with age... Some sort of tussling went on between the two, from there on you accept as straight fact everything as recounted by Officer Wilson and the prosecutor. You match that up with the physical evidence, which makes that story credible. I just don't buy it, and tend to believe the testimony of the eyewitness standing a few feet away. We will never know if for whatever reason WIlson was pulling Brown into the car. We won't know if Brown did put his hands up and surrender. We won't know much of anything, but I do understand why you, or anyone else, has come to accept the outcome.
 
I just don't buy it, and tend to believe the testimony of the eyewitness standing a few feet away.

The eyewitness who changed his story time and again? The one with the criminal record? The eyewitness who's testimony, based on physics and physical evidence, can't POSSIBLY be true? You believe that?

I'll take science, thanks.
 
you know what I say

The thug is dead - get over it
 
We don't have time for this **** anyway - - Tomlin is about to be fired and we hire Rex Ryan.
 
The eyewitness who changed his story time and again? The one with the criminal record? The eyewitness who's testimony, based on physics and physical evidence, can't POSSIBLY be true? You believe that?

I'll take science, thanks.
The eyewitness fraught with nerves, vomiting, on the run, recounting what happened in a few flashes... Again, it doesn't matter, you guys win, I give up. We've argued this to death, everyone thinks what they want.
 
I hear you oneforthebus, the case just seems fishy to me from several angles, that's all. My trust of authority must be eroding with age... Some sort of tussling went on between the two, from there on you accept as straight fact everything as recounted by Officer Wilson and the prosecutor. You match that up with the physical evidence, which makes that story credible. I just don't buy it, and tend to believe the testimony of the eyewitness standing a few feet away. We will never know if for whatever reason WIlson was pulling Brown into the car. We won't know if Brown did put his hands up and surrender. We won't know much of anything, but I do understand why you, or anyone else, has come to accept the outcome.

Tibs, the eyewitness you recount was his friend and cohort. Probably the least credible eyewitness that exists. Yet you choose to believe him over the witnesses whose testimony is matched by physical evidence?

Honestly, you believe this 6 year police veteran would attempt to pull a 6'5" 300 pound suspect into a car window by the neck with one hand? For jaywalking and/or mouthing off? I generally think you're a pretty intelligent guy, that doesn't stretch the boundaries of credulity to you?
 
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The eyewitness fraught with nerves, vomiting, on the run, recounting what happened in a few flashes... Again, it doesn't matter, you guys win, I give up. We've argued this to death, everyone thinks what they want.

Oh. Dear. God.

He's as credible as Al Sharpton after Tawana Brawley.

The kid has a criminal record. The kid had just robbed a convenience store. The kid was on drugs. The kid changed his story multiple times.

This "KID" is as much to blame for the looting, the violence, the tens of millions of dollars in costs, and the additional lost lives in Ferguson as anyone, if not being the PRIMARY reason. It was his initial lie (a story he's since recanted) that led to the "hands up don't shoot" narrative the media ran with, the story that physical evidence has proven impossible to be true.

But hey brother, as Journey once sang...

 
Honestly, how much more evidence does a police officer need to prove a shooting was justified? You have Michael Brown's DNA on the gun...I mean seriously, this massive man was so close to getting this officer's gun that his DNA was ON THE GUN...and we still question whether the officer had reason to fear for his life? Have any of these armchair police officers ever come this close to dying, and then truly believe they could have opted not to shoot in this situation? I feel like we're in bizarro world here.
 
It was his initial lie (a story he's since recanted) that led to the "hands up don't shoot" narrative the media ran with...

• More than 50 percent of the witness statements said that Michael Brown held his hands up when Darren Wilson shot him. (16 out of 29 such statements)

• More than half of the witness statements said that Brown was running away from Wilson when the police officer opened fire on the 18-year-old, while fewer than one-fifth of such statements indicated that was not the case.
 
• More than 50 percent of the witness statements said that Michael Brown held his hands up when Darren Wilson shot him. (16 out of 29 such statements)

• More than half of the witness statements said that Brown was running away from Wilson when the police officer opened fire on the 18-year-old, while fewer than one-fifth of such statements indicated that was not the case.

The physical evidence supports neither of these assertions, and many of these witnesses recanted when presented with the contradictory physical evidence.
 
What has also been bothersome has been a complete lack of empathy for an unarmed teenager shot six times and left lying in the street like a dog.

Okay, fair point. But when the investigation becomes a political battle, as this was, then human interest becomes secondary. I do recall media coverage of the funeral, interviews with the mother, etc. Further, Brown was "left in the street" because the police were investigating. The same happens with fatal car crashes. It is not a decision to leave Brown in the street because of anything other than the fact an investigation has to occur.

It also bothers me to see an increasingly omnipresent, militarized police force, along with an erosion of citizen's rights.

Cannot disagree here. Unfortunately, as our society has deteriorated, the need for well-armed police has increased. Look, I would love it if we needed no more than one cop per 10,000 residents, walking the beat with a night stick and a flashlight.

Hoping for something is not reality.

While it seems many of you see the backlash as a simple black/white thing, the case of a thug getting what he deserved, and you mock the anger and rioting in the streets, I look at it as a slice of a bigger picture that is quite troubling and worrisome. Not just for black Americans, but for all Americans. Who the **** wants to live in a fascist, police-state?

Nobody, I hope. But the simple, irrefutable fact is this, Tibs: Americans are vastly more likely - and I mean by a factor of 5000 to 1 - to be assaulted, shot, knifed, harmed, or killed by fellow citizens, rather than police. Further, if a police officer exceeds his or her rightful use of force, citizens have a remedy. We can sue the police force.

When private citizens harm me, I have no remedy apart from taking care of myself. So I submit that your concerns about a police state are overstated, and your concerns about criminal behavior by citizens understated.

Just on an anecdotal basis, have you ever had your car stolen? Suffered a burglary? Been attacked or harmed by a private citizen?

How about by a police officer?

Among those was allowing local prosecutor Robert McCulloch, who has strong family connections to police, to supervise the presentation of evidence,

This kind of comment is ... well, ridiculous.

All prosecutors have "strong connections to the police." Who do you think the prosecutors work with on a daily basis when prosecuting criminal activity?

Do you suggest that a new prosecutor's office be funded to investigate the rare incidence of alleged excessive force by police? Where the prosecutors prosecute only those actions and thereby have very little prosecutorial experience? That is not a reasonable approach.

• “Because it was a grand jury inquiry and not a trial, Wilson took the stand in secrecy and without benefit of a cross-examination. Prosecutors not only failed to probe his incredible testimony but frequently appeared to be bolstering his claim of self-defense. Transcripts reveal that witnesses whose accounts contradicted Wilson’s were rigorously questioned by prosecutors.

The grand jury process is privileged and has been for decades. Further, comments about the nature of cross-examination, without citing particular examples, is unsupported opinion. "Frequently appeared to be bolstering his claim of self-defense"? How about one example? "Rigorously cross-examined"? Such as ... ? Yeah, thanks for the empty assertion. I can tell you that when I prepare written material for presentation to the court, I cite specific evidence as to any fact I allege, and legal authority for any assertion of law. That is how I was taught to write, in high school, college and law school.

• Dorian Johnson, the key witness who was standing next to Brown during the encounter, provided strong testimony that called into question Wilson’s claim that he was defending his life against a deranged aggressor. Johnson testified that Wilson, enraged that the young men did not obey his order to get on the sidewalk, threw his patrol car into reverse. While Wilson claimed Brown prevented him from opening his door, Johnson testified that the officer smacked them with the door after nearly hitting the pair. Johnson described the ensuing struggle as Wilson attempting to pull Brown through the car window by his neck and shirt, and Brown pulling away. Johnson never saw Brown reach for Wilson’s gun or punch the officer. Johnson testified that he watched a wounded Brown partially raise his hands and say, ‘I don’t have a gun’ before being fatally shot.

The grand jury considered that testimony, along with Johnson's changes to his version of events, testimony from numerous other witnesses, and the forensic evidence.

The prosecutor called the witness. Was he supposed to fail to call other witnesses, or introduce forensic evidence disproving what Johnson was saying? Yeah, I'd like to see what the PD did if one of his clients was treated in that fashion before a grand jury.

Further, Johnson's statement that Wilson pulled a 289 lb. suspect into the police car by his shirt collar is unbelievable. The cop would be facing forward, away from the driver's side window, and have to turn to his left to try and "grab" Brown's collar. Brown is outside the car, on his feet, and above the cop. The chances that the cop could pull Brown into the car - Johnson's claim - are little to none, and little just left town.

• Wilson’s description of Brown as a ‘demon’ with superhuman strength and unremitting rage, and his description of the neighborhood as ‘hostile,’ illustrate implicit racial bias that taints use-of-force decisions. These biases surely contribute to the fact that African Americans are 21 times more likely to be shot by police than whites in the U.S., but the statement’s racial implications remained unexamined.

These comments are racist non-sequiturs.

Specifically, is the guy suggesting that having strength is a "black thing"? Seriously, the most racist comment is not by Wilson but by the PD who wrote that statement. Further, his pontification about "racial implications" is nothing more than editorializing.

Further, statistics about the likelihood of African-American getting shot by police is not evidence. It isn't. The comments about statistics and "racial implications" are 100% inadmissible editorial comments. Personally, I shudder at the thought of a society where government prosecution depends on political views and editorial commentary.

• Prosecutors never asked Wilson why he did not attempt to drive away while Brown was allegedly reaching through his vehicle window or to reconcile the contradiction between his claim that Brown punched the left side of his face and the documented injuries which appear on his right side.Wilson, who is 6 feet 4 inches tall and 210 pounds, is never asked to explain why he ‘felt like a five-year-old holding on to Hulk Hogan’ during his struggle with Brown, who is Wilson’s height and 290 pounds.”

The comment about driving away is simply stupid. The police officer testified that Brown had assaulted him and tried to grab his gun - felonies. The police don't run away from criminals; they arrest them. Any police officer who flees a felon would be fired - and deservedly so. This comment simply underscores how profoundly weak and illogical the PD's arguments are.

I sure as **** would not want him as my lawyer.

Also, as to Wilson's injuries, Wilson did not claim he was not struck on the right side of his face. The photos show injury to the left side of his face. So how did Wilson get these injuries of Johnson's version is accurate, and Brown did not strike the cop???

Finally, comments about being overpowered - the cop was in a car. Brown, who was 6'5", 289 lbs, was outside the car. That very well played a role in Wilson's inability to defend himself.

The grand jury considered the evidence and found no probably cause that Wilson committed a crime. Thankfully, such decisions are made by members of the public, based on evidence, and are not political decisions by somebody worried about re-election.
 
You're suggesting someone snatching a couple a cigarettos off a counter at a convenience store deserves to get blasted, shot dead in cold blood. Nice. You should sign up with the National Guard near you, they'll be needing your ilk on the streets in the near future. ;)

It doesn't matter what he took, it's the fact that he used force and intimidation with the owner who was half his size. That's ok with you, but it's not ok when the authorities use any type of force to enforce the law?
 
The eyewitness fraught with nerves, vomiting, on the run, recounting what happened in a few flashes... Again, it doesn't matter, you guys win, I give up. We've argued this to death, everyone thinks what they want.

While we are all saying what we think...That thug is a piece of **** too. The store owner should have shot both of them. Less crowded prison somewhere in the future.
 
Check out CNN. They are reporting that Charles Barkely is "not backing away from his comments that the people who torched buildings are scumbags".

Really, CNN? As if he was too harsh with his words describing people committing major felonies!
 
Sir Charles is wise.
 
Just on an anecdotal basis, have you ever had your car stolen?
No.

Suffered a burglary?
Nope.

Been attacked or harmed by a private citizen?
No.

How about by a police officer?
I've been verbally harassed, dragged out of my car pulled by my hair, kicked in the shins, slapped on the neck, maced, pepper-sprayed, tased, worked over with a baton, slammed up against a wall, had my arms twisted behind my back, had a cup of water thrown in my face, kicked / stomped multiple times, cuffed and made to crawl around on my hands and knees.

Nah, none of that happened. I keep my nose clean and head on a swivel. :) Plus, being an "average white guy," the chances of any of that happening is unlikely.
 
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Nah, none of that happened. I keep my nose clean and head on a swivel. :) Plus, being an "average white guy," the chances of any of that happening is unlikely.

The same can probably be said for the average black guy also. It's most often the lifestyle you live, not the color of your skin. But race is an easy excuse for those who choose to live the thug life.
 
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