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Florida Valentines Day Shooting

Smash said:
I like the age idea Trump mentioned today. I know this drills down to the 2nd but hear me out. When a young person enlists, they aren't given M-16's to sleep with. They are whipped into shape, observed for psychological "concerns" and graded for ability. When they surpass basic training, they receive advanced training which includes job specific weapons or are reassigned to something suitable. Some slip through the cracks as you know.

Now, who is more likely to purchase an AR? Your son or your daughter? When you sign your kids up for auto insurance, you pay more for your son because your daughters are less likely to be reckless behind the wheel. It is what it is due to maturity. An 18 year old male isn't as mature as his sister and imo even with experience neither should be allowed to purchase semi-auto weapons. It doesn't step on the 2nd, just looks at it from a modern pov.

.02 cents Ark.
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Bullshit! It's a violation of the Equal Protection Clause. And frankly, so is the drinking age being 21. At 18, you're an adult, PERIOD!
 
SteelerSask said:
You mean like the police officer outside the school who wouldnt go in. And by the way he was most likely acting by proceedure. Active shooter requires back up. Not saying that he was right to not go in. But we we are all heroes till we are pressed into the situation. Clearly all you big tough guys are. If you think that a regular person with marksman training and a handgun is supposed to leave a secure spot and go out and shoot at a guy with body armor and a long gun you are ****** dreaming.
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Yeah, that's his job dumbass. Oh, and that coach DID run into the fray to protect the children, so that flies right in the face of your bullshit.
 
CharlesDavenport said:
No, I mean like an armed teacher. Yes, normal men would respond appropriately. You would be one of the ******* we protect.
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You've been in a gunfight in your life. You are military, police or a citizen who has been in a gun fight. Yes or No? I would like to believe I would do whatever I could in any situation whatever the nature. But I've never been in a gunfight so I would say that I cannot for certain say. So Charles, I think you should declare if you have actually been in a gunfight. Or is this just the usual dick swinging around here.
 
Wait a minute....did I hear correctly that the school had an armed guard who stood outside the actual building for 4 of the 6 minutes the shootings were taking place and took a defensive position and didn't confront the killer!?!?!?!

Are you friggin kidding me? This sheriff just stood and blasted the NRA and all but blamed gunowners for killing these kids when his department had literally fail after fail on this monster....TO INCLUDE COMPLETE COWARDICE.

I don't know who this armed guard was but I truly feel there is one lowest of the low when it comes to humans and that is a coward. This guy needs to be reminded every day of his life that he allowed children to be killed to keep his snivelling pension safe. Yellow *******. A football coach gives his life to protect his kids and this POS retires and takes a pension instead of doing his job.....COWARD!
 
SteelerSask said:
You've been in a gunfight in your life. You are military, police or a citizen who has been in a gun fight. Yes or No? I would like to believe I would do whatever I could in any situation whatever the nature. But I've never been in a gunfight so I would say that I cannot for certain say. So Charles, I think you should declare if you have actually been in a gunfight. Or is this just the usual dick swinging around here.
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I think arming teachers is a bad idea. Security at schools, real security, is the best idea. A combination of metal detectors, locked doors after the bell, video surveillance inside and out, and multiple armed guards is the way to go. No banning any kind of weapons, no arming teachers. Maybe if politicians are so worried about the children, maybe they should give up a little of their security to help with funding the security of the kids they claim to champion.
 
I have no problem with arming teachers that WANT to volunteer for the job. I would not make it mandatory at all. I don't even think the public/student should know who is and who isn't armed.

To me, it's the unknown fact that maybe some teachers are armed that becomes the deterrent. Just one more level that makes schools a soft target to a little bit harder target. A lot of these kids that do this are wimps and cowards. Confront them at all with a firearm and they might just fold or kill themselves earlier than they planned on.

I think it's a good idea to let this happen. If and only if, there was additional training and the only reason the gun would come out was during an active shooter.
 
Sarge said:
I think arming teachers is a bad idea. Security at schools, real security, is the best idea. A combination of metal detectors, locked doors after the bell, video surveillance inside and out, and multiple armed guards is the way to go. No banning any kind of weapons, no arming teachers. Maybe if politicians are so worried about the children, maybe they should give up a little of their security to help with funding the security of the kids they claim to champion.
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Agreed,,,but I would only allow teachers/admins who are trained and qualified to use a concealed weapon to be allowed to do so...if THEY CHOOSE.

By trained and qualified I mean they would have to go through a fairly intensive program to prove their ability, both physical and mental, to be able to perform as needed if they needed to.

They must fully understand and accept their responsibility of carrying a concealed weapon by CHOOSING to be an hostile intruder first responder...

Im still shaking my head over the "bonus" statement......WTF!
 
bmoritz said:
Bullshit! It's a violation of the Equal Protection Clause. And frankly, so is the drinking age being 21. At 18, you're an adult, PERIOD!
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I'm all for protecting our rights, but I'm moving away from a purist view. Simply taking one side of what is a huge issue is what we've been doing since Columbine and has produced no fruit.

The Brady handgun legislation changed the legal age for handguns and handgun ammunition to 21. Why wouldn't the proposal yesterday by the president be something to look at? I mean, even in his opinion in the DC v. Heller ruling, Scalia wrote this:

like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited.” It is “not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.
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Again, I'm of the opinion that it is high time to get past the rhetoric and look for ideas that could begin to solve a real problem, while not infringing on our rights.
 
SteelerSask said:
You mean like the police officer outside the school who wouldnt go in. And by the way he was most likely acting by proceedure. Active shooter requires back up.
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The Sheriff who actually knows the department's procedure said you are wrong:

"What matters is that when we, in law enforcement, arrive at an active shooter, we go in and address the target," the sheriff said. "And that’s what should’ve been done."

When asked what Peterson should have done, Israel said the deputy should have "went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer."
 
See, the reason I believe that neither political party is interested in resolving this issue is that if you listen, no one has proposed a real solution. No one, from either side. The left goes on about "something must be done" and yet they never say specifically what. The right just doesn't do anything but send out hopes and prayers, which is about as effective as "doing something." This isn't hard.

The left can't come out and say "ban guns" or try confiscation because they know it is a losing position, in both parties. The right can't come out and say "we need to ban some of these assault style weapons" because it is a losing issue in their own party.

It is an issue that fires up voters and raises money for both parties, just like abortion. It is more profitable for it to be an issue. They could fix it. Relatively easy. They don't want to.
 
Sarge said:
I think arming teachers is a bad idea. Security at schools, real security, is the best idea. A combination of metal detectors, locked doors after the bell, video surveillance inside and out, and multiple armed guards is the way to go. No banning any kind of weapons, no arming teachers. Maybe if politicians are so worried about the children, maybe they should give up a little of their security to help with funding the security of the kids they claim to champion.
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I agree. People have different skills and personal traits. Plus security can wear a vest and can unlock a long gun. At least it is a fair fight. One person seen one unseen in a room with the big guns.
Charles, Im still interested in your experiences that make you believe that you would react risking your life in the same situation.
 
Steeltime said:
The Sheriff who actually knows the department's procedure said you are wrong:

"What matters is that when we, in law enforcement, arrive at an active shooter, we go in and address the target," the sheriff said. "And that’s what should’ve been done."

When asked what Peterson should have done, Israel said the deputy should have "went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer."
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Im not saying what the Sherriff believed he should have done. Im not even saying what I think he should have done. I think he should have went. Im saying what proceedure is. And it is wait for back up. But Im also saying it all easy in hindsight. He would have a very small opportunity to survive unless he had access to a long gun.
 
I had heard initially that there was an armed guard at the school who didn't see Cruz enter or see the gunfight. I thought that was strange at the onset, but I figured it's possible with as huge as that HS and its campus are. Heck- I work at a school with 2000 students and sometimes I don't see the 2 SROs at all during the day (and I am all over the building daily).
Now that we know he didn't go in at all and knew about it....I have no words. I don't know if I can trust the 2 SROs at my school now....and that frightens me.
 
SteelerSask said:
Im not saying what the Sherriff believed he should have done. Im not even saying what I think he should have done. I think he should have went. Im saying what proceedure is. And it is wait for back up. But Im also saying it all easy in hindsight. He would have a very small opportunity to survive unless he had access to a long gun.
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If they have to wait for backup what's the point of having them there at all?
 
I don't think our 2 SROs have guns. I know they have mace and pepper spray and billy clubs. But I can't say for sure if they do have guns. They are true Derby KS police officers, so I know they COULD shoot if they had to. I will have to see if the "gun free zone" applies to them as well.
 
Makes no sense having an armed guard with the direction to stand-down until backup....these things are over in 6 minutes. No, this guy is proof why you cannot give up your rights to protect yourself. His self preservation instinct trumped kids being slaughtered like lambs....kids from his own community. Pure cowardice.
 
Doctors, lawyers, teachers, police and virtually every profession operate under proceedure. I think most police would have went which is why he is under protection. Which is why he quit. Just dont tell me what YOU would have done if you have never been in the situation. No one knows unless they have.
 
In the media slant on the news...we can always count on CNN to show their ***.

nQmfd0W.jpg



FL Shooting Survivor Colton Haab: CNN Told Me I Needed To "Stick To The Script"; Entire Town Hall Scripted

Haab, a JROTC member who helped shepherd students to safety, was approached by the network to ask a question at the town hall. Haab showed CNN what he wanted to say but said Carrie Stevenson, an executive producer at CNN, ultimately rejected it and instead after several conversations "scripted" a question for him.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...he_script_they_scripted_entire_town_hall.html
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DiFm42e.jpg
 
Turd Ferguson said:
Wait a minute....did I hear correctly that the school had an armed guard who stood outside the actual building for 4 of the 6 minutes the shootings were taking place and took a defensive position and didn't confront the killer!?!?!?!

Are you friggin kidding me? This sheriff just stood and blasted the NRA and all but blamed gunowners for killing these kids when his department had literally fail after fail on this monster....TO INCLUDE COMPLETE COWARDICE.

I don't know who this armed guard was but I truly feel there is one lowest of the low when it comes to humans and that is a coward. This guy needs to be reminded every day of his life that he allowed children to be killed to keep his snivelling pension safe. Yellow *******. A football coach gives his life to protect his kids and this POS retires and takes a pension instead of doing his job.....COWARD!
Click to expand...

I heard he has bone spurs and just had to back out of going in the school 5 times..........

Your president calls him a coward.......
 
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