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Govt. shutdown

Exactly. They can track apprehensions and border crossings through points of entry. Nobody knows, one way or another, how many people cross through undetected. So it's a moot point to bring that up. The known and verified data shows there's nothing even close to a crisis at the southern border. To argue the opposite, you'd have to make **** up out of thin air, and suggest hordes of illegal immigrants are coming into the country undetected and unknown by anyone.

to the contrary.

let's fact check the MS-13 point being made. I'll even use Snopes.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/criminal-aliens-gang-members/
“Criminal Aliens”

U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) considers someone as having a criminal record if that person has “been convicted of crime, whether in the United States or abroad, so long as the conviction is for conduct which is deemed criminal by the United States.” Broadly speaking, the “over 17,000 adults arrested at the border had prior criminal records” claim holds up, but context is important. Of the 17,000 adults referenced here, 63 percent were not attempting to cross the southern border on land between ports of entry, and therefore their inclusion in a “wall” fact post is misleading, as explained by Public Radio International (PRI):

A full 63 percent of those individuals were “encountered” by the Office of Field Operations (OFO). Those are the people you meet at the airport and at border crossings. In other words, the “criminal aliens” they encountered were travelers who failed routine checks at legal entry ports and were denied entry.

Those “encountered” individuals would have been immediately deported, thanks to fingerprinting efforts at ports of entry. In terms of individuals encountered crossing the U.S.-Mexico border where a wall might one day exist, only 6,259 individuals with criminal records were encountered by agents in between ports of entry in 2018, according to U.S. Border Patrol statistics.

Those 6,259 or so individuals represent just 1.7% of the 361,993 total number of people encountered by U.S Border Patrol between ports of entry in 2018. Furthermore, nearly 50% of the crimes related to this list of “criminal alien” encounters involved individuals whose criminal status stemmed from past failed attempts to cross the border

the key number here is 6,259 - even though those people represent " just 1.7% of the 361,993 total number of people encountered by U.S Border Patrol between ports of entry in 2018".

hold onto that number, 6,259, as they represent the criminals coming over. That's what Snopes says and no leftie has ever disagreed with Snopes. So we won't start now.

The correctional population in this country is currently, or at last report, 7,259,500 (give or take a few hundred or thousand, since that number is too clean to be 100% true).
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpus16.pdf

We have a total of 6,046 correctional centers (State prisons, Federal prisons, Juvenile detention facilities, jails).

Which makes that approximately 1,200 people per facility.

Per veritas, it costs between $31,000 and $60,000 to house an inmate per year, nationwide
https://www.marketplace.org/2017/05/15/world/how-much-does-it-cost-send-someone-prison

Which, when extrapolated, is $225,044,500,000. per year. Using the low end of $31,000 per prisoner per year.

but, back to the earlier number. 6,259.
That represents fIve additional prison/correctional center populations. Which is $194,029,000. per year. Using the low end of $31,000 per prisoner per year.

This is also more money than we give to many countries in foreign aid. And represents money we could spend on our own homeless population, veterans healthcare, etc, etc.
 
Because the President has gotten in the way with his stubborn, juvenile, short-sighted approach to the issue, that's why. And to make matters worse, he now shuts down the federal government causing pain and agony for those who's job it is to protect us and ensure our safety. The net result is even less border control, less TSA oversight, less functioning enforcement of immigration laws. It's a Trump double-whammy.


I agree that Trump can throw child like tantrums, but are you really saying he is solely the problem, that those from the opposing political party are pure and mature in all of this?

Frankly, I'm happy this pissing contest is happening, because someone has to blink sooner or later, and actually represent the citizens of this country. The wall alone won't solve the immigration mess, but as others have pointed out, it is a piece of the puzzle.

I don't understand the resistance to getting the process started, other than trying to save face for the next election.
 
There are a lot of people from the Caribbean here illegally and none of them came across the southern border, unless
you count flying over the border or being dropped by boat in the Keys. Maybe we should wall off all of the Florida beaches.
 
I don't understand the resistance to getting the process started, other than trying to save face for the next election.

Voters. Plain and simple.

Abortion fails at the ballot boxes. Most Liberal platforms fail at the ballot boxes. That's why the Courts are so important to Liberals. Americans won't vote for what they want so they need rulings in the courts to get what they want.

Liberals also can't win on election day without an influx of new voters. They need illegal immigration for votes in similar fashion to needing the courts. They can't win without help.

Our taxes buy favor and Democratic votes for their party each and every time we support an "ILLEGAL" immigrant.
 
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Bottom line. They are against it because Trump is for it.

It was one of his campaign promises, and they don't want to hear him say he did what he said he would do. Plain and simple.
 
There are a lot of people from the Caribbean here illegally and none of them came across the southern border, unless
you count flying over the border or being dropped by boat in the Keys. Maybe we should wall off all of the Florida beaches.

As someone mentioned previously, the wall is a piece of the puzzle. Get that in place and then we'll go after the rest.
 
On a fun note, not everyone is hating the shut down.

My son came home from Ohio State for Christmas holidays. We had a wonderful 3.5 weeks with him home. He has a beautiful girlfriend here (which means we see him for only about 3 days of the 3.5 weeks he's home). Her father works at NIST and I'm guessing he's beyond GS15 and he's SES based on answers to questions I've asked along the way.

Anyway, he's been off since the shutdown began. She said he's happy as hell, longest Christmas vacation ever, etc.
 
I hope all those happy tears will help pay rent, mortgage, utilities, groceries...

Sorry this real life story doesn't jibe with the "liberal tears" people are supposed to be crying over the furlough. Mother Jones told you to be up in arms (not so much when Obama shuts down the Government). So you are up in arms. You're a good, obedient, lemming soldier.

Sorry to burst the HuffPo bubble, or to let you know the Kool-Aid you drank is tainted, but not everyone furloughed is harmed by it or hates it. He's enjoying it.

You probably don't understand the SES connection though, so.

Nevermind. As OFTB has said, it's literally like speaking to a wall.
 
On a fun note, not everyone is hating the shut down.

My son came home from Ohio State for Christmas holidays. We had a wonderful 3.5 weeks with him home. He has a beautiful girlfriend here (which means we see him for only about 3 days of the 3.5 weeks he's home). Her father works at NIST and I'm guessing he's beyond GS15 and he's SES based on answers to questions I've asked along the way.

Anyway, he's been off since the shutdown began. She said he's happy as hell, longest Christmas vacation ever, etc.

Sounds like someone who has been financially responsible and has saved appropriately.
 
per a friend of mine working at the IRS, deemed "non-essential" ... this Friday's paycheck will be the first one missed.
he's not upset.
 
As someone mentioned previously, the wall is a piece of the puzzle. Get that in place and then we'll go after the rest.

What I find incredible, and I see so many of them when driving the freeways of Southern California, is that they have put up literally a couple thousand miles of 'barrier walls' across the country to block the traffic sounds from neighborhoods, but this southern border barrier wall thing is a travesty.

It's mind-boggling and the real travesty.
 
I'm open to bleeding heart stories on an individual basis, and that's what those many consulates between Guatemala and the Arizona boarder are for.

A story from the opposite perspective, 4 years ago a friend and neighbor of mine was riding his motorcycle to work as a physician at Phoenix Children's hospital. He never made it to work. Someone ran a light and hit him, killing him instantly. And yes, no license, no insurance, and by an "undocumented immigrant" that had been deported 3 times before. He left behind a loving wife and 3 beautiful children. Would a wall have prevented this, who knows, but I do know it may have, and for that reason, if nothing else I say build it.

And those of you here that oppose this, you're doing so primarily for political reasons and you know it, but will never admit it. At all costs, don't give Trump an inch.

I live on the boarder, and needlessly lost a friend. To those of you living thousands of miles away, and opposed to increased boarder security, I respectfully say **** you.
 
I was listening to KDKA this afternoon and a caller said “how do you think hurricane victims in Florida feel when they can’t afford to rebuild but the government can spend billions on a wall”. My question would be how do they feel knowing how much it costs to process, clothe, feed, etc these trespassers?
Jesus, do people have no common sense?
 
I was listening to KDKA this afternoon and a caller said “how do you think hurricane victims in Florida feel when they can’t afford to rebuild but the government can spend billions on a wall”. My question would be how do they feel knowing how much it costs to process, clothe, feed, etc these trespassers?
Jesus, do people have no common sense?


Um, if I chose to live in Florida I'd probably buy insurance to protect my assets.
 
I was listening to KDKA this afternoon and a caller said “how do you think hurricane victims in Florida feel when they can’t afford to rebuild but the government can spend billions on a wall”. My question would be how do they feel knowing how much it costs to process, clothe, feed, etc these trespassers?
Jesus, do people have no common sense?

government spending on a wall has jack and **** to do with hurricane response efforts.
 
I'm open to bleeding heart stories on an individual basis, and that's what those many consulates between Guatemala and the Arizona boarder are for.

A story from the opposite perspective, 4 years ago a friend and neighbor of mine was riding his motorcycle to work as a physician at Phoenix Children's hospital. He never made it to work. Someone ran a light and hit him, killing him instantly. And yes, no license, no insurance, and by an "undocumented immigrant" that had been deported 3 times before. He left behind a loving wife and 3 beautiful children. Would a wall have prevented this, who knows, but I do know it may have, and for that reason, if nothing else I say build it.

And those of you here that oppose this, you're doing so primarily for political reasons and you know it, but will never admit it. At all costs, don't give Trump an inch.

I live on the boarder, and needlessly lost a friend. To those of you living thousands of miles away, and opposed to increased boarder security, I respectfully say **** you.

We've been lectured that if it saves one life it is worth any cost.... So the wall is now morally justified.
 
I'm open to bleeding heart stories on an individual basis, and that's what those many consulates between Guatemala and the Arizona boarder are for.

A story from the opposite perspective, 4 years ago a friend and neighbor of mine was riding his motorcycle to work as a physician at Phoenix Children's hospital. He never made it to work. Someone ran a light and hit him, killing him instantly. And yes, no license, no insurance, and by an "undocumented immigrant" that had been deported 3 times before. He left behind a loving wife and 3 beautiful children. Would a wall have prevented this, who knows, but I do know it may have, and for that reason, if nothing else I say build it.

And those of you here that oppose this, you're doing so primarily for political reasons and you know it, but will never admit it. At all costs, don't give Trump an inch.

I live on the boarder, and needlessly lost a friend. To those of you living thousands of miles away, and opposed to increased boarder security, I respectfully say **** you.

Sad story Zona, sorry to hear that. I live very close to the border too and it's a mess. It truly is a humanitarian crisis but are the suits going to give up all those votes & that cash flow? Let's be honest, that's what it comes down to, anybody with an ounce of honesty knows this.

And I've heard enough about the visa overstays and tunnels, and every other excuse they're throwing at the wall (no pun intended). You build that wall, then you're more singularly focused on the other **** i.e. tunnels -- bottom line IMO.
 
Meeting today. Trump asked Pelosi if he opened the govt, would she give him 5he money in 30 days. She said no.
 
Meeting today. Trump asked Pelosi if he opened the govt, would she give him 5he money in 30 days. She said no.


Then he got up and left. When there is no give on either side, there will be no deal made.

Just think, it's only January 10th. There is no limit to the stuff they can disagree on and not get done. Gonna be such a fun two years, I can hardly wait to see what doesn't get done next.
 
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I am not 100% sold on the wall, but i do not think it will hurt anything at least. The is so much money wasted the 5.7 billion is a drop in the bucket. Plus i would think it will create some jobs. If I was a Democrat and really wanted border security and humanitarian efforts i would let trump have his little wall party as long as the other stuff was included in the package. With the dems saying they will not give 1 cent to the wall is stupid rhetoric. Now they backed themselves into a corner. If they give even a little toward the wall they look weak and Trump wins. If they stick to not giving anything then they will be seen as not willing to negotiate. I still feel trump has more to lose though. He ran on "the wall" if it doesn't get built it will be a major failure. Also he shut the govt down so if people start losing money he may start losing voters.
 
From what I have read, Trump is willing to concede some things, but wall funding has to be included in any deal. Like I said before, this doesn't have to be either-or. Both sides can come out looking like winners and save some face. Just gotta be willing to talk and come up with a deal. Yeah, don't see that happening.
 
Looks like this story's already been written, way back in 1958. Strange coincidence?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">What the fresh hell. This is REAL. Filmed in 1958- about a conman who grifts a small town of suckers into building a wall. History not subtle enough for you? GUESS THE GRIFTER'S NAME <br>(And watch until the end) <a href="https://t.co/6FA3p6KC00">pic.twitter.com/6FA3p6KC00</a></p>— Alex Hirsch (@_AlexHirsch) <a href="https://twitter.com/_AlexHirsch/status/1083140191362048000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 9, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Looks like this story's already been written, way back in 1958. Strange coincidence?

th
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Exclusive footage from today’s Shutdown Negotiations <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@realDonaldTrump</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/SenSchumer?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@SenSchumer</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@SpeakerPelosi</a> <a href="https://t.co/wxPVBzK0nv">pic.twitter.com/wxPVBzK0nv</a></p>— Anthony Atamanuik (@TonyAtamanuik) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyAtamanuik/status/1083182093641940993?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 10, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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