Rod Woodson says Ben isn't a hall of fame QB

[slashsteel]

So if Peyton throws for 450 and 3 TD's in a playoff game, but they lose, that's his fault? You have said before that it's an individual award, not a team award. So why is Peyton being judged by his teams record? Was it Manning's fault they lost to the Ravens two years ago? It was a 38-35 double OT game in which Manning threw for 3 TD's had the team ahead late in the fourth quarter and the Broncos DB's misjudge a prayer pass from Flacco and the Ravens tie it up. A lot of Manning's losses came against the Patriots, are we really going to pretend that those are equal to every other game? There were threads going 10 pages long about how the Patriots were just manhandling the Colts WR's and no calls... and that was on THIS board.

You are also putting WAY too much stock into JUST playoffs. What Manning has done during the regular season is insane. 12 4,000 yard seasons, 1 5,000 yard season, his two lone seasons under 4,000 yards were within 280 yards of that number. He's never thrown for less than 26 TD's every year he's played.

It is if he is throwing INTs at inopportune times.

Team game sure, but those turnovers kill ya.

 

[Vader]

Anybody that thinks Manning and Brady aren't 1st ballot HOFs are smoking some heavy duty crack.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Anybody that thinks Manning and Brady aren't 1st ballot HOFs are smoking some heavy duty crack.

How much did the cheating help Brady? I guess it doesn't matter as the crack heads will still vote him in.



Salute the nation

 

[skialta]

How much did the cheating help Brady? I guess it doesn't matter as the crack heads will still vote him in.



Salute the nation

have you ever SEEN espn?
all you need to do is watch sportscenter. they'll let you know that he's the greatest qb ever. they love that dicknose
anyone who thinks anybody other than this website gives a **** about spygate is completely delusional.
wake up dude. nobody other than us cares

 

[Vader]

How much did the cheating help Brady? I guess it doesn't matter as the crack heads will still vote him in.



Salute the nation

I didn't say he deserved it. I said he would get in and he will easily. Roger burned the tapes and covered up everything. All his records stand in the NFL. So he's in.

 

[CorpusDsteelers]

What know one posted Brady's combine picture yet?

 

[Hineswardkickedurpanzyass]

Ask and ye shall receive. No way a dork like that can ever win a SB.

 

[Drink IRON City]

have you ever SEEN espn?
all you need to do is watch sportscenter. they'll let you know that he's the greatest qb ever. they love that dicknose
anyone who thinks anybody other than this website gives a **** about spygate is completely delusional.
wake up dude. nobody other than us cares

I'm hearing what you are saying. Thats the crack head response. I know its all under the table, but I still would like to see something of a "price to pay", second ballot in vote. If the Ben Rothlesburger behavior counts, then the spy gate should be accountable also.

I didn't say he deserved it. I said he would get in and he will easily. Roger burned the tapes and covered up everything. All his records stand in the NFL. So he's in.

I'm not doubting the "he is in" at all, just would like to see some accountability on the spy-gate. Do you remember Brady the "dick smoker" pressing charges on the homeless guy? Turns out the homeless rummaged through tommy's garbage, found and hawked something. Tommy boy pressed charges. He acted like the garbage wasn't garbage and the item was of value. Why the F_ _ K, didn't tommy just give the dude a couple (&100.00) bucks and send him on his way?



Salute the nation

 

[Omar10213245]

I'm hearing what you are saying. Thats the crack head response. I know its all under the table, but I still would like to see something of a "price to pay", second ballot in vote. If the Ben Rothlesburger behavior counts, then the spy gate should be accountable also.




I'm not doubting the "he is in" at all, just would like to see some accountability on the spy-gate. Do you remember Brady the "dick smoker" pressing charges on the homeless guy? Turns out the homeless rummaged through tommy's garbage, found and hawked something. Tommy boy pressed charges. He acted like the garbage wasn't garbage and the item was of value. Why the F_ _ K, didn't tommy just give the dude a couple (&100.00) bucks and send him on his way?



Salute the nation

Because maybe he didnt want the homeless guy to be motivated to come back for more $100 bills?? Perhaps Brady felt compelled to take action so he (or maybe other homeless people) wouldnt feel incentivized by rummaging through his garbage? Just playing devil's advocate here

 

[skialta]

I'm hearing what you are saying. Thats the crack head response. I know its all under the table, but I still would like to see something of a "price to pay", second ballot in vote. If the Ben Rothlesburger behavior counts, then the spy gate should be accountable also.








Salute the nation

so...
in other words, you are NOT putting brady in the hall. and NOT putting ben in the hall. either that or you're putting them both in

 

[AggieSteel]

I can see the Spygate thing being a source of hesitation for Brady

But there is absolutely no argument whatsoever against Peyton Manning belonging in the Hall. NONE. Not one. If you can even fix your fingers to type that, you are exposing yourself. His numbers are better than almost every other QB in the Hall already, let alone throughout history. His mental mastery of the game is superior to almost any other player in history. He HAS A SUPER BOWL RING and has played in two others. He's made the playoffs almost every year of his career. Sure he has flaws of sometimes choking in big games, but every QB who is in the Hall has easily distinguishable flaws or shortcomings in their resume that didn't stop them from being put in. Considering all that, and that he has made it over the hump and won that ring, and carried an entire organization for a decade and a half, it truly baffles me that anyone could even contemplate the idea of trying to argue leaving him out. Please, he is first ballot of first ballot'ers. It is possible, arguable that he is a better QB than EVERY other in the Hall right now. It's not like it hasn't been debated. I'd probably take a couple over him, but that's it. Please just stop

 

[Drink IRON City]

Because maybe he didnt want the homeless guy to be motivated to come back for more $100 bills?? Perhaps Brady felt compelled to take action so he (or maybe other homeless people) wouldnt feel incentivized by rummaging through his garbage? Just playing devil's advocate here

I can relate to not wanting the homeless guy hanging around. But really, why not offer a way, maybe a gardening job, something to get him to earn a little. Rather than show condemnation. If the guy is only looking for a handout, then work will scare him away. Otherwise, it may be a "hand up" which once in awhile could go a long ways. Devils advocate with possible solution.

so...
in other words, you are NOT putting brady in the hall. and NOT putting ben in the hall. either that or you're putting them both in

Of coarse brady and Ben will get In, Just that I'd like to see some accountability on the spy-gate thingy. Wrong or right, Ben was punished, tommy on the other hand, was handed the keys to the car. So yes they BOTH get in, just a little twist, to make me happy.


Salute the nation

 

[Wingman]

I can see the Spygate thing being a source of hesitation for Brady

But there is absolutely no argument whatsoever against Peyton Manning belonging in the Hall. NONE. Not one. If you can even fix your fingers to type that, you are exposing yourself. His numbers are better than almost every other QB in the Hall already, let alone throughout history. His mental mastery of the game is superior to almost any other player in history. He HAS A SUPER BOWL RING and has played in two others. He's made the playoffs almost every year of his career. Sure he has flaws of sometimes choking in big games, but every QB who is in the Hall has easily distinguishable flaws or shortcomings in their resume that didn't stop them from being put in. Considering all that, and that he has made it over the hump and won that ring, and carried an entire organization for a decade and a half, it truly baffles me that anyone could even contemplate the idea of trying to argue leaving him out. Please, he is first ballot of first ballot'ers. It is possible, arguable that he is a better QB than EVERY other in the Hall right now. It's not like it hasn't been debated. I'd probably take a couple over him, but that's it. Please just stop

So your thoughts are that no one can have an opinion different than yours if it is to make sense, got it. Just do not agree with it. Loosing more play off games than you have won does not make one hall of fame worthy.

Playoff Record as Starting QB: 1999 (0-1), 2000 (0-1), 2002 (0-1), 2003 (2-1), 2004 (1-1), 2005 (0-1), 2006 (4-0), 2007 (0-1), 2008 (0-1), 2009 (2-1), 2010 (0-1), 2012 (0-1), 2013 (2-1)
Playoff Comebacks: 2006 (1)
Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 2006 (1)
Eight years one and done. Four years won two and lost one. In fifteen years he has gone to the play offs 13 times and won the big game once. 11 and 12 is his playoff record. One game winning drive according to that web site that I quoted the stats from. All of those things make him a good quarter back. I do not think that makes him a hall of fame quarter back. The biggest thing he has to offer in the playoffs is failure, 14 out of 15 years he did not win the big game when he was placed in the mix with other teams.

Now here are Ben's numbers.



Playoff Record as Starting QB: 2004 (1-1), 2005 (4-0), 2007 (0-1), 2008 (3-0), 2010 (2-1), 2011 (0-1)
Playoff Comebacks: 2008 (1),2004 (1)
Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 2010 (1),2008 (1),2004 (1)

Play off record 10 and 4 much better odds of winning with this guy in the playoffs, beat manning in the playoffs.

Ben is not yet ready to be a hall of fame qb but could be. Again he is good. He still has the chance to become great. Has played 2/3 of the time manning has so with reasonable expectations he could put up numbers to surpass the other guys and win more championships. He could become one of the greats.

Maybe we should just call it the hall of a bunch of guys. Nothing says that a certain number of quarter backs have to be taken from every bunch of retiring players. There can be years when they are not good enough for the hall even though they are among the best that were playing in their time. I think he is a good qb. I do not think he has achieved greatness because of his play off record.

 

[insaniti]

Playoff Record as Starting QB: 1983 (0-1), 1984 (2-1), 1985 (1-1), 1990 (1-1), 1992 (1-1), 1994 (1-1), 1995 (0-1), 1997 (0-1), 1998 (1-1), 1999 (1-1)
Playoff Comebacks: 1985 (1),1990 (1),1999 (1)
Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 1985 (1),1990 (1),1998 (1),1999 (1)

Since all you want to concentrate on is playoff wins and losses. Name this QB based ONLY on his playoff record (8-10 total), that's more losses than wins.

 

[TAS]

Playoff Record as Starting QB: 1983 (0-1), 1984 (2-1), 1985 (1-1), 1990 (1-1), 1992 (1-1), 1994 (1-1), 1995 (0-1), 1997 (0-1), 1998 (1-1), 1999 (1-1)
Playoff Comebacks: 1985 (1),1990 (1),1999 (1)
Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 1985 (1),1990 (1),1998 (1),1999 (1)

Since all you want to concentrate on is playoff wins and losses. Name this QB based ONLY on his playoff record (8-10 total), that's more losses than wins.

Dan Marino. Do I win a cookie?

 

[Punxsutawney]

Marino and Barry Sanders are not HOFers either, based on the bullsh1t criteria being flung around here.

 

[Vader]

Marino and Barry Sanders are not HOFers either, based on the bullsh1t criteria being flung around here.

Which is why I pointed out a few pages ago that when you talk about playoffs people jump back to regular season stats, then when you mention regular season stats they jump back to the playoffs. People need to realize that the HOF has some dogs in it. They aren't the greatest of the greats there. Warren ******* Moon is in the HOF. He was ONE game over .500 for his career, had less than 60% comp. and a ******* 3-7 playoff record but yup he is in the HOF. So don't tell me the playoffs have anything to do with the HOF. Obviously it doesn't.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Which is why I pointed out a few pages ago that when you talk about playoffs people jump back to regular season stats, then when you mention regular season stats they jump back to the playoffs. People need to realize that the HOF has some dogs in it. They aren't the greatest of the greats there. Warren ******* Moon is in the HOF. He was ONE game over .500 for his career, had less than 60% comp. and a ******* 3-7 playoff record but yup he is in the HOF. So don't tell me the playoffs have anything to do with the HOF. Obviously it doesn't.

Marino completed less than 60% of his passes as well. Again, different league.

Moon is definitely a HOFer. His offenses were frequently among the highest scoring in the league, while he played on some downright bad defensive teams with the Oilers and Vikings. His cumulative stats are among the best and would be even better if racial prejudice had not kept him out of the league for several years.

Playoffs/champions do matter. Do you think Aikman or Bradshaw are in the hall without them? Though the QB is extremely important, it's still a team game and one cannot view the winning percentage of a QB in a vacuum.

 

[Omar10213245]

So your thoughts are that no one can have an opinion different than yours if it is to make sense, got it. Just do not agree with it. Loosing more play off games than you have won does not make one hall of fame worthy.

Playoff Record as Starting QB: 1999 (0-1), 2000 (0-1), 2002 (0-1), 2003 (2-1), 2004 (1-1), 2005 (0-1), 2006 (4-0), 2007 (0-1), 2008 (0-1), 2009 (2-1), 2010 (0-1), 2012 (0-1), 2013 (2-1)
Playoff Comebacks: 2006 (1)
Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 2006 (1)
Eight years one and done. Four years won two and lost one. In fifteen years he has gone to the play offs 13 times and won the big game once. 11 and 12 is his playoff record. One game winning drive according to that web site that I quoted the stats from. All of those things make him a good quarter back. I do not think that makes him a hall of fame quarter back. The biggest thing he has to offer in the playoffs is failure, 14 out of 15 years he did not win the big game when he was placed in the mix with other teams.

Now here are Ben's numbers.



Playoff Record as Starting QB: 2004 (1-1), 2005 (4-0), 2007 (0-1), 2008 (3-0), 2010 (2-1), 2011 (0-1)
Playoff Comebacks: 2008 (1),2004 (1)
Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 2010 (1),2008 (1),2004 (1)

Play off record 10 and 4 much better odds of winning with this guy in the playoffs, beat manning in the playoffs.

Ben is not yet ready to be a hall of fame qb but could be. Again he is good. He still has the chance to become great. Has played 2/3 of the time manning has so with reasonable expectations he could put up numbers to surpass the other guys and win more championships. He could become one of the greats.

Maybe we should just call it the hall of a bunch of guys. Nothing says that a certain number of quarter backs have to be taken from every bunch of retiring players. There can be years when they are not good enough for the hall even though they are among the best that were playing in their time. I think he is a good qb. I do not think he has achieved greatness because of his play off record.

Sorry, but you are absolutely, unequivocally wrong if you sincerely think Peyton's not a HOF'er. And yes, Ben should be in at some point, as well.

 

[insaniti]

Dan Marino. Do I win a cookie?

no cookie, just the satisfaction of knowing a HOF QB isn't judged by his TEAMS post season record like some are trying to do.

 

[Vader]

Marino completed less than 60% of his passes as well. Again, different league.

Moon is definitely a HOFer. His offenses were frequently among the highest scoring in the league, while he played on some downright bad defensive teams with the Oilers and Vikings. His cumulative stats are among the best and would be even better if racial prejudice had not kept him out of the league for several years.

Playoffs/champions do matter. Do you think Aikman or Bradshaw are in the hall without them? Though the QB is extremely important, it's still a team game and one cannot view the winning percentage of a QB in a vacuum.

Moon was on some good offensive teams. However he did nothing in the playoffs. Like I said, people jump back and forth to try to keep Ben out of the HOF. How in the hell can Moon be in with a 102-101 record in the regular season and a 3-7 playoff record while never winning anything? Just stats on a team that let him air it out all the time obviously because they were behind a lot. He was on a team that NEVER won over 11 games and only won 11 once. He had 2 years of winning double digits... 2 out of 16 ******* years. If Ben had the same W/L record and playoff let downs you think he'd be in the HOF? Hell Ben has 2 SB wins, a 10-4 playoff record, almost 50 games over .500 regular season record and over 34,000 yards all on a team that was run first for several years. If Warren Moon is in then Ben should be a 1st ballot HOFer.

 

[AggieSteel]

So your thoughts are that no one can have an opinion different than yours if it is to make sense, got it. Just do not agree with it. Loosing more play off games than you have won does not make one hall of fame worthy.

Playoff Record as Starting QB: 1999 (0-1), 2000 (0-1), 2002 (0-1), 2003 (2-1), 2004 (1-1), 2005 (0-1), 2006 (4-0), 2007 (0-1), 2008 (0-1), 2009 (2-1), 2010 (0-1), 2012 (0-1), 2013 (2-1)
Playoff Comebacks: 2006 (1)
Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 2006 (1)
Eight years one and done. Four years won two and lost one. In fifteen years he has gone to the play offs 13 times and won the big game once. 11 and 12 is his playoff record. One game winning drive according to that web site that I quoted the stats from. All of those things make him a good quarter back. I do not think that makes him a hall of fame quarter back. The biggest thing he has to offer in the playoffs is failure, 14 out of 15 years he did not win the big game when he was placed in the mix with other teams.

Now here are Ben's numbers.



Playoff Record as Starting QB: 2004 (1-1), 2005 (4-0), 2007 (0-1), 2008 (3-0), 2010 (2-1), 2011 (0-1)
Playoff Comebacks: 2008 (1),2004 (1)
Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 2010 (1),2008 (1),2004 (1)

Play off record 10 and 4 much better odds of winning with this guy in the playoffs, beat manning in the playoffs.

Ben is not yet ready to be a hall of fame qb but could be. Again he is good. He still has the chance to become great. Has played 2/3 of the time manning has so with reasonable expectations he could put up numbers to surpass the other guys and win more championships. He could become one of the greats.

Maybe we should just call it the hall of a bunch of guys. Nothing says that a certain number of quarter backs have to be taken from every bunch of retiring players. There can be years when they are not good enough for the hall even though they are among the best that were playing in their time. I think he is a good qb. I do not think he has achieved greatness because of his play off record.

Is this a joke? All this filler and taking up space in a long post to point out one stat: playoff record. Wow, ok. Peyton's in period. And for the record, I think Ben belongs also; I'm not sure what his playoff record has to do with Peyton's.

 

[Wingman]

Playoff Record as Starting QB: 1983 (0-1), 1984 (2-1), 1985 (1-1), 1990 (1-1), 1992 (1-1), 1994 (1-1), 1995 (0-1), 1997 (0-1), 1998 (1-1), 1999 (1-1)
Playoff Comebacks: 1985 (1),1990 (1),1999 (1)
Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 1985 (1),1990 (1),1998 (1),1999 (1)

Since all you want to concentrate on is playoff wins and losses. Name this QB based ONLY on his playoff record (8-10 total), that's more losses than wins.

In a word no, I was saying than his regular season performance was fine no issues. His playoff performance was not all that great. I am not predicting who will get in it has already been shown that things other than ability will get players in the hall. It is a hall of fame and not a hall of ability or a hall of greatness. The point I was making with regard to P Manning is he has demonstrated a serious tendency to loose big games. If that is a qualification to you that's good we differ. If I recall correctly this thread started with Rod Woodson's opinion that Brady and Manning were good choices for the hall not were they likely to be chosen by the media wags that put them in. I do not think they are good choices for reasons I stated earlier.

If you think the Hall is full of great players, I will offer you warren sap. There are great players in the hall but not all of them are.

 

[insaniti]

*lose*

Has Peyton won a super bowl? He's won the same number of AFCCG's as Ben. Been to the super bowl same number of times.... seems to me he has won some pretty games as well. Sometimes the other team is just better. Again, trying to put TEAM accomplishments either for or against a player for an individual award, such as the HOF is just dumb.

 

[Wingman]

*lose*

Has Peyton won a super bowl? He's won the same number of AFCCG's as Ben. Been to the super bowl same number of times.... seems to me he has won some pretty games as well. Sometimes the other team is just better. Again, trying to put TEAM accomplishments either for or against a player for an individual award, such as the HOF is just dumb.

So with your logic, his completions don't count cause the team blocks for him, the center hands him the ball the wide out catches it, whats left. It is a team sport all of those things must be considered. He has also been playing longer than Ben so comparisons based on their totals are not real accurate at this time. This guy has lost more playoff games than he has won, that is important, I think, but you may not.