Rudolph vs Pickett

[Sarge]

Roethlisberger is also 40. How about this. A 24 year old Roethlsiberger has this team above .500 imo.

I don't know. A 24 year old Roethlisberger had a much better offensive line, a better running game and coaches who tailored the gameplan in a manner to put him in position to succeed and not have to do too much. It's a completely different ballgame in Pittsburgh these days. I'm not sure any QB finds sustained success in this mess of a system.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

He's the QB. He runs the offense. He isn't playing well. You put Roethlisberger in TODAY at 40 years old and he keeps it close. KP is not Ben Roethlisberger. He is NOT ready. You are some nob slobbing KP is your daddy dip. He is playing like . Your opinion is wrong.

He's the QB. He runs the offense. He isn't playing well. You put Roethlisberger in TODAY at 40 years old and he keeps it close. KP is not Ben Roethlisberger. He is NOT ready. You are some nob slobbing KP is your daddy dip. He is playing like . Your opinion is wrong.

You put Ben in this season at 40 and we’re likely sitting with a minimum of 4 wins right now…even as only a shell of his former self 40 year old Ben wins vs the Pats and Fins

Last year virtually all our wins were come from behind drives but Ben, this year in the same situations our O can’t push that 13 all the way up to 20 and secure a victory

Even ancient Ben was better than what we’re rolling out there this year

At least this crew of over matched QBs might get us a top 5 pick…maybe even Ben’s replacement when we draft an actual franchise QB with pick 3 of the draft

 

[TDX27]

Honest question, but what metric are you accounting for when you say he 'played well'? Because every stat that matters (i.e. turnovers, YPA, Rating) show a pretty poor performance.

Not putting yesterday's loss on him though, that honor would go to the defense. But even if the defense had held in, I am not sure his performance would have been enough. 13 points typically not enough to win an NFL game...

Against the No. 1 D in the NFL, he was playing well until he tried to do everything in the 4th quarter when the game was already over. He was getting pummeled from the start and had no time to throw. Yet, he was making nice throws. He had some drops and he had some PI's on the Beagles not called. He also had an OL getting called for countless penalties. But, as I said, he was doing well under those circumstances. He was moving the team. The late fumble he was running for his life. And the int was so late in the game it didn't matter. The game was over. He certainly was not the reason we lost that game - not in the least. Everyone is blowing smoke up Warren's butt again but he didn't get most of his 50 yards until late in the 4th when the Beagles had their backups in the game. No one played great but KP definitely was calm and collected back there even though was sacked 6 times and took countless big hits. The kid is very cool back there. It sure would be nice if Canaduh could figure something out with getting some sort of a run game going.

 

[Troglodyte]

Everyone needs to stop romanticizing about 2021 Ben. Check his individual game stats. Ben finished the season with a 86.8 QBR and was below 80 in 5 of 16 games.

 

[Steeler]

Everyone needs to stop romanticizing about 2021 Ben. Check his individual game stats. Ben finished the season with a 86.8 QBR and was below 80 in 5 of 16 games.

Which is pretty impressive with that line we had last year. Remember Green's play?
Combine that with Canada and not to shabby!

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Against the No. 1 D in the NFL, he was playing well until he tried to do everything in the 4th quarter when the game was already over. He was getting pummeled from the start and had no time to throw. Yet, he was making nice throws. He had some drops and he had some PI's on the Beagles not called. He also had an OL getting called for countless penalties. But, as I said, he was doing well under those circumstances. He was moving the team. The late fumble he was running for his life. And the int was so late in the game it didn't matter. The game was over. He certainly was not the reason we lost that game - not in the least. Everyone is blowing smoke up Warren's butt again but he didn't get most of his 50 yards until late in the 4th when the Beagles had their backups in the game. No one played great but KP definitely was calm and collected back there even though was sacked 6 times and took countless big hits. The kid is very cool back there. It sure would be nice if Canaduh could figure something out with getting some sort of a run game going.

The Eagles defense is definitely a tall task for a rookie, and he was not the reason we lost the game, but we also must be objective.

One of the biggest issues is he simply locking into his first read, which is typically underneath. He is also failing to look for the intermediate/deep routes, unless they are curls or back shoulders. If you go to the Depots twitter, you can see GIFs where he totally misses DJ and Claypool (who are wide open) in favor of the checkdown. Some of this can be attributed to rookie growing pains. But some of this is him not trusting his arm (or his arm maybe not being strong enough for tight windows). And as far as I am concerned, having a 5.8 YPA is horrendous even for a rookie. Justin Fields, who also has a poor offense scheme and 0 weapons, managed a 6.9 YPA his rookie year.

But my biggest issue are the turnovers. Coming in people where concerned that the baby hand thing could result in turnovers, and he has down nothing to alleviate that concern (in fact it is now even a bigger concern). Sure his INT didnt matter all that much, but giving the ball away is never good. Said differently, if he had thrown a TD, would we had thrown it out because it was a garbage time TD?

 

[Troglodyte]

Which is pretty impressive with that line we had last year. Remember Green's play?
Combine that with Canada and not to shabby!

Actually it’s pretty similar to Trubisky’s stats.

 

[Steeler]

Actually it’s pretty similar to Trubisky’s stats.

And Mitch is 10x more mobile than 21 Ben was. Ben was a sitting duck back there last year, beyond ridiculous imo. He had someone in his face often in less than 2 seconds. And it was usually the guy that trucked Green.
At least it seemed that way.

 

[jitter77]

Ben would have not kept this game close. The Eagles basically did not play the last quarter. Brown would have probably been there all game for them, but they let off the gas. We may or may not have a few more wins w/ Ben, but if we did it would be because he said "f-it" and called his own plays. Ben could get away with that no one else can. There was a stat in the game thread where we scored less than 20 points in something like 20 of the last 26 games. Cant blame Kenny for all that

 

[topseed]

The Eagles defense is definitely a tall task for a rookie, and he was not the reason we lost the game, but we also must be objective.

One of the biggest issues is he simply locking into his first read, which is typically underneath. He is also failing to look for the intermediate/deep routes, unless they are curls or back shoulders. If you go to the Depots twitter, you can see GIFs where he totally misses DJ and Claypool (who are wide open) in favor of the checkdown. Some of this can be attributed to rookie growing pains. But some of this is him not trusting his arm (or his arm maybe not being strong enough for tight windows). And as far as I am concerned, having a 5.8 YPA is horrendous even for a rookie. Justin Fields, who also has a poor offense scheme and 0 weapons, managed a 6.9 YPA his rookie year.

But my biggest issue are the turnovers. Coming in people where concerned that the baby hand thing could result in turnovers, and he has down nothing to alleviate that concern (in fact it is now even a bigger concern). Sure his INT didnt matter all that much, but giving the ball away is never good. Said differently, if he had thrown a TD, would we had thrown it out because it was a garbage time TD?

Objectively, 2021 Ben and 2022 Kenny have virtually identical CAYs (Completed Air Yards) per attempt and completion:

Ben 3.0 and 4.6
Kenny 3.1 and 4.5

They are running the same bullshit Canada offense, and neither was/is very good at it.

Turnovers are indeed the main difference. More specifically, interceptions. 39-year-old Ben struggled a little less than the rookie Kenny has, because Ben's experience kept his INT % low at 1.7%. Kenny's is very high, at 4.8%. As far as fumbles, Ben fumbled 11 times in 605 attempts last year. Pickett has 3 in 165. That's the exact same ratio.

Ironically, 2022 Mitch has posted the best numbers of his career in those two CAY categories at 4.7 and 7.0, but he's already been benched by his head coach, and most of the fanbase is ready to run him out of town on a rail.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Ironically, 2022 Mitch has posted the best numbers of his career in those two CAY categories at 4.7 and 7.0, but he's already been benched by his head coach, and most of the fanbase is ready to run him out of town on a rail.

are we? We can see the problem being the offense. Say they fire canada tomorrow. Do we try to win or let Kenny learn another / varied offense. Or Take a vet like Mitch try and win with it? Kenny is a rookie . I understand his turnovers. Not good.. But hes a rookie.
Discussing here, not attacking top seed.

 

[Stainless]

Ben would have started Mason and it would have been on like Donkey Kong.

 

[topseed]

are we? We can see the problem being the offense. Say they fire canada tomorrow. Do we try to win or let Kenny learn another / varied offense. Or Take a vet like Mitch try and win with it? Kenny is a rookie . I understand his turnovers. Not good.. But hes a rookie.
Discussing here, not attacking top seed.

Mitch came in and played great when he replaced Pickett due to injury. I think with him it's more of a confidence issue. I didn't disagree with Tomlin about replacing Trubisky with Pickett (although the timing was stupid), but now that I've seen how they've both played since, it's a bit confounding.

I really don't know what the answer is at this point. The main problem is, Canada doesn't seem to be going anywhere. So, if they stick with Pickett (the most likely scenario), is this system going to ruin him? Would it be more damaging for KP's future to put him back on the bench and let Trubisky fight through it? Hard to say. I do think that Mitch would probably play better than he did at the start of the season, because he won't be worrying about losing his job again, or listening to a rabid fan base boo the hell out of him and chant the backup's name. They've seen Pickett now, and should realize that he's not some magic elixir to the Steelers' many problems.

 

[Stainless]

The dudes on the CBS NFL show seemed to imply that we have no idea what we’re doing.

 

[steelreeling]

Well, I'd like to see more pulling from the guards as well, but to say that the team is "littered with athletic lineman" might be a stretch.

Green, Davis, Daniels. Three awfully goddamn quick interior linemen. Perhaps the quickest trio in the entire NFL. idk

<they just all share the same damn trait: they have no anchor>


Remind me again just WTF the Steelers offense is doing handing the ball off for gap responsibility inside-zone rushing plays?!@!

 

[steelreeling]

And in your 5 down lineman set, where would Watt and Highsmith line up? Can't agree with you there; this defense is awful in any zone, especially when there is no pass rush.

i think you lineup Worm/ Loudermilk on the edge and Watt on the edge. Highsmith? Well i'm not sure he and Bush sniff the field all that often.

You got Jack in the middle but MAN coverage? idk, i might agree that the DBs dont play zone well but otherwise they have been torched playing man coverage recently.

 

[steelreeling]

i think you lineup Worm/ Loudermilk on the edge and Watt on the edge. Highsmith? Well i'm not sure he and Bush sniff the field all that often.

You got Jack in the middle but MAN coverage? idk, i might agree that the DBs dont play zone well but otherwise they have been torched playing man coverage recently.

Watt /Heyward/ Adams/ Alu / Worm
Louder & Leal to rotate in

No ****. F*ck the passing lanes from now on. Shoot every single gap and play the run on the way to the quarterback.

If the linebackers can't get the job done, throw in the all of defensive linemen.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Ben would have not kept this game close. The Eagles basically did not play the last quarter. Brown would have probably been there all game for them, but they let off the gas. We may or may not have a few more wins w/ Ben, but if we did it would be because he said "f-it" and called his own plays. Ben could get away with that no one else can. There was a stat in the game thread where we scored less than 20 points in something like 20 of the last 26 games. Cant blame Kenny for all that

You’re right Ben wouldn’t have kept this game close, he ain’t shutting down AJ Brown

What Ben likely would’ve done is beat the Pats and Fins, that’s more of the Ben type of difference…ya know 20 pts over 15 pts can make a difference in those close ones

What was it 5 or 6 come back wins in the 4th last year?

Just sayin’

What would Ben change? Likely just the difference between 9-8/putting off the inevitable and 4-13/5-12 with a top pick

Pick your poison haha, I’m good with watching the **** show unfold and exposing what Shades has always been…at least it’s a different movie than the dangerously average one we’ve been watching for over a decade

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Objectively, 2021 Ben and 2022 Kenny have virtually identical CAYs (Completed Air Yards) per attempt and completion:

Ben 3.0 and 4.6
Kenny 3.1 and 4.5

They are running the same bullshit Canada offense, and neither was/is very good at it.

Turnovers are indeed the main difference. More specifically, interceptions. 39-year-old Ben struggled a little less than the rookie Kenny has, because Ben's experience kept his INT % low at 1.7%. Kenny's is very high, at 4.8%. As far as fumbles, Ben fumbled 11 times in 605 attempts last year. Pickett has 3 in 165. That's the exact same ratio.

Ironically, 2022 Mitch has posted the best numbers of his career in those two CAY categories at 4.7 and 7.0, but he's already been benched by his head coach, and most of the fanbase is ready to run him out of town on a rail.

Definitely agree that Mitch has looked to be the most competent QB we have had over the past 2 years, which aint saying much. Unfortunately, 1st round QB's don't really sit on the bench for a prolonged period anymore unless they are a big project. And Kenny was anything but a project.

My issue with your is example is that you are comp'ing Pickett to a Ben with a surgically repaired elbow on his throwing arm. I would expect his deep throws to be more dangerous than Ben, who was largely broken down at that point in his career. Unfortunately KP's deep ball stats say otherwise- in fact, they say the complete opposite.

 

[TDX27]

The Eagles defense is definitely a tall task for a rookie, and he was not the reason we lost the game, but we also must be objective.

One of the biggest issues is he simply locking into his first read, which is typically underneath. He is also failing to look for the intermediate/deep routes, unless they are curls or back shoulders. If you go to the Depots twitter, you can see GIFs where he totally misses DJ and Claypool (who are wide open) in favor of the checkdown. Some of this can be attributed to rookie growing pains. But some of this is him not trusting his arm (or his arm maybe not being strong enough for tight windows). And as far as I am concerned, having a 5.8 YPA is horrendous even for a rookie. Justin Fields, who also has a poor offense scheme and 0 weapons, managed a 6.9 YPA his rookie year.

But my biggest issue are the turnovers. Coming in people where concerned that the baby hand thing could result in turnovers, and he has down nothing to alleviate that concern (in fact it is now even a bigger concern). Sure his INT didnt matter all that much, but giving the ball away is never good. Said differently, if he had thrown a TD, would we had thrown it out because it was a garbage time TD?

I hear you locking onto reads but Trubisky was worse. KP scans the field a heck of a lot more than Trubisky did in his starts. His turnovers in this past game were meaningless. They are still something but the kid was running for his life and trying to do everything since no one else on the O was stepping up. When he is scrambling, he needs to put his 2nd hand on the football. It may be uncomfortable but that is the only option for the small hands. I said that from before we drafted him. It's something I am sure he will get to work on in his first off-season. The YPA is part his fault but I put more of that blame on Canaduh and his play calling. Canaduh is the biggest problem on the O and is obviously going nowhere. The OL is the 2nd biggest problem. Better play calling and some semblance of a run game would help KP or any QB out a ton.

 

[FordFairLane]

Objectively, 2021 Ben and 2022 Kenny have virtually identical CAYs (Completed Air Yards) per attempt and completion:

Ben 3.0 and 4.6
Kenny 3.1 and 4.5

They are running the same bullshit Canada offense, and neither was/is very good at it.

Turnovers are indeed the main difference. More specifically, interceptions. 39-year-old Ben struggled a little less than the rookie Kenny has, because Ben's experience kept his INT % low at 1.7%. Kenny's is very high, at 4.8%. As far as fumbles, Ben fumbled 11 times in 605 attempts last year. Pickett has 3 in 165. That's the exact same ratio.

Ironically, 2022 Mitch has posted the best numbers of his career in those two CAY categories at 4.7 and 7.0, but he's already been benched by his head coach, and most of the fanbase is ready to run him out of town on a rail.

But do we blame Canada for that? That is his offense. Same type of offense Fichtner wanted to run. Same offense that we forced fired Arians and his deep ball and 5 step drop for when we signed Haley. There's slight variances on all their offenses but they all are quick read and throw offenses trying to get the ball out and in the hands of playmakers. I guess what I am getting at is this is the type of offense Tomlin wants to run. Firing Canada does nothing if the next guy uses the same type of system with some of their own flare and variances on the same scheme.

 

[topseed]

Definitely agree that Mitch has looked to be the most competent QB we have had over the past 2 years, which aint saying much. Unfortunately, 1st round QB's don't really sit on the bench for a prolonged period anymore unless they are a big project. And Kenny was anything but a project.

My issue with your is example is that you are comp'ing Pickett to a Ben with a surgically repaired elbow on his throwing arm. I would expect his deep throws to be more dangerous than Ben, who was largely broken down at that point in his career. Unfortunately KP's deep ball stats say otherwise- in fact, they say the complete opposite.

I'm comparing Pickett to 2021 Ben because of the common factor: the offensive coordinator.

Despite cries to the contrary (not yours), Ben simply wasn't very good last season. He just made better decisions with the ball than Kenny has thus far. It's probably indeed fair to say that the Steelers would have at least 2 more wins this year if Ben were still under center, simply because he very likely wouldn't have thrown as many interceptions.

 

[topseed]

But do we blame Canada for that? That is his offense. Same type of offense Fichtner wanted to run. Same offense that we forced fired Arians and his deep ball and 5 step drop for when we signed Haley. There's slight variances on all their offenses but they all are quick read and throw offenses trying to get the ball out and in the hands of playmakers. I guess what I am getting at is this is the type of offense Tomlin wants to run. Firing Canada does nothing if the next guy uses the same type of system with some of their own flare and variances on the same scheme.

Yes.

Ben led the league in passing yards, and had a respectable 7.6 YPA in Finctner's first year as the OC in 2018. I think after Ben's injury in 2019, they started more with the quick/short passing approach so they could protect him and prolong his career. But Ben's gone now -- there's no need to continue to adopt that same strategy with two much more mobile quarterbacks on the roster.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I keep telling everyone that Rudolph’s start in this offense was phenomenal for a first time starter … people were focused on the yards only… his TD % was in the top 100 all time after that first year…

That being said its regressed every year as we moved further into the cowardly dipshit offense… you could clone joe Montana and Dan marino and I’m not sure they can have success with the handcuffs we have on the offense tge first 3 quarters

Offensive line was vastly better at that time too. Current OL is ranked at the bottom.

 

[FordFairLane]

Dude. No. Just no. Josh Allen is a physical freak. 84th percentile height, 92nd weight, 86th wingspan, 86th arm length, 87th hand size, 67th 40 yard, 75th vertical, 87th broad jump, 87th 3-cone and 99th in arm strength.
I had hoped he’d start off like Joe Burrow or even Derek Carr. Not going to happen. Those two are similar size and athleticism wise to KP. My worry is he’s started off more like Jimmy Clausen than either of the 2 before mentioned.