Rudolph vs Pickett

[FordFairLane]

You can try to make the argument, but you can't just look at stats. If you really want to make the argument you would need to look at all aspects and do a proper breakdown. From a fan standpoint it is near impossible because we don't know the playcalls, the hot reads, the scramble reads, etc etc. If you can not comprehend that then it is a lost cause. The last int i don't put full blame on pickett. He could have ran, but i think DJ was supposed to come back for the ball and was just a miscommunication. The hook route int was a bad play all around. The D was in a shell and looking at Pickett the whole time. He shouldn't have thrown it, but we should have tried a play to pick up like half the yardage. The int to Claypool, Claypool fell. He had a hail mary int, at least one int went through the WRs hands. You can see he had a lot of Ints, but how many were really terrible ints?

Ok, don't look at statistics for facts.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

oh, i see...

Mason

NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League

The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.

www.nfl.com

3 years
17 games played
89 total rushing yards

Kenny ******* Pickett

NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League

The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.

www.nfl.com

Rookie
4 games played
61 rushing yards

ouch. you sure schooled me on that.

do i need to go ford fairlane on you and compare their first games TD's to INT's. I did school you.

 

[paperclip]

I thought the Rudolph/Washington connection was gonna be huge

boy was I wrong

 

[Superman]

do i need to go ford fairlane on you and compare their first games TD's to INT's. I did school you.

uh, peabrain, we (you and I) were discussing their mobility...which is why you posted a video of Mason's running ability.
should I compare/contrast the first years of say Peyton, Ben and Mason?

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

While I would agree with your opinion that Kenny has more upside currently than Rudolph I would disagree with many peoples comparison to Josh Allen. KP has no where near the ceiling Allen had/has. Allen is a physical specimen. Pickett is a pretty average physically gifted QB. He's not Allen or Herbert. He is very body and athleticism comparable to Joe Burrow. Nothing wrong with that. You can be a pro bowler with that skillset. Allen was selected early because of upside. Nothing more. His body of work in college was pedestrian and that is coming from Wyoming. Pickett was supposed to be NFL ready with being a 6th year senior and 24 years of age. That is my concern. He was supposed to be the most NFL ready QB, going to his college city to play ball in the same stadium he played college ball. His floor was supposed to be high. So far he has not played like a player ready for the NFL. I am not saying we call him a bust by any means. But I am saying is Rudolph started off much better and after getting concussed and then having a horrible game vs the Browns never recovered in the face of the fan base. I look at Rudolph's body of work and I see his ceiling at an average to slightly above average starter. I would say Trent Green is his ceiling. Very comparable. Green drafted in 1993 was a back up until 1998 when he got a chance to start. Did well. Had a decent career being bounced around a little but was a quality starting QB. KP I would say still has more upside. By far. Could be Derek Carr or even Joe Burrow at this point. He's a rookie. But his floor still could be bust. I think Rudolph at the very least is a career #2 in the NFL and sticks around for 5-10 years even if it is primarily holding a clip board and being a spot starter. So he at this point has a higher floor.

That is just my opinion.

I believe you are overthinking using Allen's rookie year as a comparison. No one is saying he is Allen or Manning or Bradshaw for that matter, only that their have been great QBs who didn't look like great QBs for the first year or even two. Not that Kenny's play style or attributes directly compare. The point isn't that he is any of those guys or even that he will be great, it is simply that we need to be patient and give him a chance to sink or swim for this year and even next.


Personally I would have considered using Mason and not signing Mitch. His problem is Canadas system doesn't fit his strengths but I don't think it fits anyone's strengths.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

1. Again, negating interception thing is simply another excuse. Sure, the Hailmary is not on Pickett, but are we going to start doing that for all QB's? How many of Burrow's or Lamar's INT's should have been caught by the WR?
2. Lamar's OC was fired right after his rookie year. Watson thrived in spite of Bill O'Brien's struggles. Yea- Matt Canada is bad, but lets not pretend that Pickett is the only rookie QB to face adversity with scheme.
3. The only thing that he compares to 'nicely' is his completion %, which unfortunately is a result of dinking and dunking. Although this may not be his fault.

Again, not saying he is a bust, but his first appearances are markedly trailing his peers in the division.

WE will have to agree to disagree. The ONLY reason LJ succeeded is his legs. His throwing has improved but without his legs he is mediocre at best. I think you are undervaluing what he has done in a bad system and terrible play calls. He has made something out of nothing.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

WE will have to agree to disagree. The ONLY reason LJ succeeded is his legs. His throwing has improved but without his legs he is mediocre at best. I think you are undervaluing what he has done in a bad system and terrible play calls. He has made something out of nothing.

Lamar certainly leaned on his legs in the beginning of his career. Same with J.Allen and Herbert with their arms. These guys had one or two ELITE attributes that they could lean on until they grew into the position. I am just not quite sure what our QB's ELITE attribute is at the moment.

Where I disagree with is when you say "He has made something out of nothing". Our offense has yet to score more than 20 points with him in the game, so what exactly is he making?

 

[paperclip]

I'm ok with Steeler QB being serviceable for now.

Build the team around him (OLine, etc) and see what you have. If he's not doing well, then grab a QB. It's a shame we didn't do that the last few years with Ben.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Lamar certainly leaned on his legs in the beginning of his career. Same with J.Allen and Herbert with their arms. These guys had one or two ELITE attributes that they could lean on until they grew into the position. I am just not quite sure what our QB's ELITE attribute is at the moment.

Where I disagree with is when you say "He has made something out of nothing". Our offense has yet to score more than 20 points with him in the game, so what exactly is he making?

He is making yards and keeping the ball in our possession for more than 3 downs, in this offense that is an improvement over the start of the year. Time of possession has improved. With it the defense has at times improved as well. It is a far cry from where we need to be but I am more confident in his abilities now than I was earlier. His élite ability in my mind is his intangibles and drive. He is A. Still learning and B. Saddled with the same issues as Ben, Mitch and Mason were, a bad system.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

I'm ok with Steeler QB being serviceable for now.

Build the team around him (OLine, etc) and see what you have. If he's not doing well, then grab a QB. It's a shame we didn't do that the last few years with Ben.

That's kind of where I am at this point. I dont think KP has the elite tools to become one of the top QB's, but hopefully he can grow into a Andy Dalton type of player.

If we continue to build up the defense, and Minkah and TJ can stay healthy, that squad should be competitive enough to make some noise. Maybe not be dominant, but competitive.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

That's kind of where I am at this point. I dont think KP has the elite tools to become one of the top QB's, but hopefully he can grow into a Andy Dalton type of player.

If we continue to build up the defense, and Minkah and TJ can stay healthy, that squad should be competitive enough to make some noise. Maybe not be dominant, but competitive.

That is aiming a bit low. What elite tools does Brady have? Give the kid chance. "Just a little patience" GnR.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

He is making yards and keeping the ball in our possession for more than 3 downs, in this offense that is an improvement over the start of the year. Time of possession has improved. With it the defense has at times improved as well. It is a far cry from where we need to be but I am more confident in his abilities now than I was earlier. His élite ability in my mind is his intangibles and drive. He is A. Still learning and B. Saddled with the same issues as Ben, Mitch and Mason were, a bad system.

This is the reason the thread exists (i.e. excuses). You are giving him credit for something that is immeasurable. None of us can definitively say that he has more drive than Trubisky or Mason. Its all conjecture, or based on whatever you would like to believe.

That is aiming a bit low. What elite tools does Brady have? Give the kid chance. "Just a little patience" GnR.

Andy Dalton was a solid QB, just not great. Most drafted QB's would love to have the same fate.

As for Brady, one of his ELITE attributes (along with his hardwork) is his IQ.

• Tom Brady Wonderlic Score: 33
• Kenny Pickett Wonderlic Score: 17

 

[FordFairLane]

I believe you are overthinking using Allen's rookie year as a comparison. No one is saying he is Allen or Manning or Bradshaw for that matter, only that their have been great QBs who didn't look like great QBs for the first year or even two. Not that Kenny's play style or attributes directly compare. The point isn't that he is any of those guys or even that he will be great, it is simply that we need to be patient and give him a chance to sink or swim for this year and even next.


Personally I would have considered using Mason and not signing Mitch. His problem is Canadas system doesn't fit his strengths but I don't think it fits anyone's strengths.

2018 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Josh Allen

walterfootball.com

"In speaking with a few team sources, I said to them that Allen is more of a skill set than a quarterback at this point of his development, which they agreed with. "



"As a developmental prospect, Allen has the traits that make coaches drool. His arm talent, athleticism, football IQ and personality are all ideal. The question every front office will ask is if it can get the most out of him."

http://www.mynfldraft.com/2018draft/scouting-reports/2018/Josh-Allen

"Likely be the biggest boom-or-bust quarterback prospect in the draft."

Franchise QB or bust? Making sense of Josh Allen, draft enigma

Rocket arm. Freakish talent. The Wyoming quarterback could be a superstar. But Allen has flaws that stand out from the usual top draft pick.

www.espn.com

"Josh Allen is the ultimate boom-or-bust NFL draft prospect"​

Steelers take Kenny Pickett in 2022 NFL Draft: Fantasy Football and Dynasty outlooks, scouting report, more

After five years at Pitt, Kenny Pickett will level up to the NFL. Will he have meaningful Fantasy value?

www.cbssports.com

"Pickett strikes me as a close-to-ready starter who will get overdrafted and likely start before he should. "

Steelers Draft Kenny Pickett at No. 20 - Team Fit and Draft Profile

With the 20th overall pick in the 2022 NFL Draft, the Pittsburgh Steelers draft Kenny Pickett, quarterback out of Pittsburgh. The Heisman finalist will step into an offense looking for a new leader. He has big shoes to fill, but the hometown kid will likely be given plenty of time and support...

flurrysports.org

"Pickett has a ton of experience, and is the most “ready to play” quarterback in this 2022 NFL draft."

Steelers select Pittsburgh QB Kenny Pickett with No. 20 overall pick in 2022 NFL Draft

The Pittsburgh Steelers selected quarterback Kenny Pickett with the No. 20 overall pick on Thursday during the first round of the 2022 NFL Draft.

www.nfl.com

"The most pro-ready quarterback in the draft, Pickett was a four-year starter at Pitt who progressively improved each season."

NFL.com Bucky Brooks Declares Kenny Pickett ‘Pro-Ready QB1’

On Thursday night, the Pittsburgh Steelers took Pitt quarterback Kenny Pickett at the No. 20 pick, staying with the hometown pick over other picks like Liberty quarterback Malik Willis, Cincinnati quarterback Desmond Ridder, Ole Miss quarterback Matt Corrall and more. NFL.Com’s Bucky Brooks in...

steelersnow.com

"Pickett is ready to take snaps and become the No. 1 quarterback for the Steelers."

2022 NFL Draft: Scouting Roundup on Steelers quarterback Kenny Pickett

Looking at the pre-draft evaluation of the Steelers 1st round pick.

www.behindthesteelcurtain.com

"Between his combination of experience and NFL-translatable skills, Pickett is as ready as any quarterback in the draft class to start out the gate. The question is: How high is his ceiling?"

Find me one article that stated Josh Allen was the most ready QB in the draft. The consensus was he was a boom-or-bust prospect. He boomed. Cam Newton or EJ Manuel would be good comparisons. Pickett was supposed to be the most NFL ready QB in his class. He has struggled.

 

[slashsteel]

That is aiming a bit low. What elite tools does Brady have? Give the kid chance. "Just a little patience" GnR.

Not sure with the short body of work that anyone knows what level of tools Kenny has or doesn't have. As you say they just need a little patience. Yeahhhh yeah.

 

[Gildong Sack]

horseshit.
Maybe not in this thread but since july.

Well maybe I shouldn't have used the term "most." I think we don't know much yet about Pickett. Imagine 6th round 199th pick Tom Brady...a nobody basically, and someone saying at that time this guy will become the GOAT(not that I think he is)...of course it was laughable at the time.

Tom Brady's scouting report
--Poor build
--Skinny
--Lacks great physical stature and strength
--Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush
--Lacks a really strong arm
--Can’t drive the ball downfield
--Does not throw a really tight spiral
--System-type player who can get exposed if forced to ad lib
--Gets knocked down easily

How'd that work out?

 

[slashsteel]

2018 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Josh Allen

walterfootball.com

"In speaking with a few team sources, I said to them that Allen is more of a skill set than a quarterback at this point of his development, which they agreed with. "



"As a developmental prospect, Allen has the traits that make coaches drool. His arm talent, athleticism, football IQ and personality are all ideal. The question every front office will ask is if it can get the most out of him."

http://www.mynfldraft.com/2018draft/scouting-reports/2018/Josh-Allen

"Likely be the biggest boom-or-bust quarterback prospect in the draft."

Franchise QB or bust? Making sense of Josh Allen, draft enigma

Rocket arm. Freakish talent. The Wyoming quarterback could be a superstar. But Allen has flaws that stand out from the usual top draft pick.

www.espn.com

"Josh Allen is the ultimate boom-or-bust NFL draft prospect"​

Steelers take Kenny Pickett in 2022 NFL Draft: Fantasy Football and Dynasty outlooks, scouting report, more

After five years at Pitt, Kenny Pickett will level up to the NFL. Will he have meaningful Fantasy value?

www.cbssports.com

"Pickett strikes me as a close-to-ready starter who will get overdrafted and likely start before he should. "

Steelers Draft Kenny Pickett at No. 20 - Team Fit and Draft Profile

With the 20th overall pick in the 2022 NFL Draft, the Pittsburgh Steelers draft Kenny Pickett, quarterback out of Pittsburgh. The Heisman finalist will step into an offense looking for a new leader. He has big shoes to fill, but the hometown kid will likely be given plenty of time and support...

flurrysports.org

"Pickett has a ton of experience, and is the most “ready to play” quarterback in this 2022 NFL draft."

Steelers select Pittsburgh QB Kenny Pickett with No. 20 overall pick in 2022 NFL Draft

The Pittsburgh Steelers selected quarterback Kenny Pickett with the No. 20 overall pick on Thursday during the first round of the 2022 NFL Draft.

www.nfl.com

"The most pro-ready quarterback in the draft, Pickett was a four-year starter at Pitt who progressively improved each season."

NFL.com Bucky Brooks Declares Kenny Pickett ‘Pro-Ready QB1’

On Thursday night, the Pittsburgh Steelers took Pitt quarterback Kenny Pickett at the No. 20 pick, staying with the hometown pick over other picks like Liberty quarterback Malik Willis, Cincinnati quarterback Desmond Ridder, Ole Miss quarterback Matt Corrall and more. NFL.Com’s Bucky Brooks in...

steelersnow.com

"Pickett is ready to take snaps and become the No. 1 quarterback for the Steelers."

2022 NFL Draft: Scouting Roundup on Steelers quarterback Kenny Pickett

Looking at the pre-draft evaluation of the Steelers 1st round pick.

www.behindthesteelcurtain.com

"Between his combination of experience and NFL-translatable skills, Pickett is as ready as any quarterback in the draft class to start out the gate. The question is: How high is his ceiling?"

Find me one article that stated Josh Allen was the most ready QB in the draft. The consensus was he was a boom-or-bust prospect. He boomed. Cam Newton or EJ Manuel would be good comparisons. Pickett was supposed to be the most NFL ready QB in his class. He has struggled.

Just because he came from a pro style offense doesn't mean the kid can't struggle then come on. As you are even showing some thought Allen was a boom or bust. He eventually boomed. So we will have to see what level of boom Kenny is.

 

[madinsomniac]

That is aiming a bit low. What elite tools does Brady have? Give the kid chance. "Just a little patience" GnR.

Brady had cheating and steroids… those kind of intangibles you just cant teach lol

 

[ZonaBurgh]

I find this entire discussion funny, maybe stupid would be more accurate.

Bradshaw started out with 3 TD's and 18 INT's, how did that work out? Pickett is a rookie with an abysmal offensive scheme to work with, I'd give him more than a couple of games before passing judgement.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

I find this entire discussion funny, maybe stupid would be more accurate.

Bradshaw started out with 3 TD's and 18 INT's, how did that work out? Pickett is a rookie with an abysmal offensive scheme to work with, I'd give him more than a couple of games before passing judgement.

No. We must have instant gratification!!!!

 

[jitter77]

Ok, don't look at statistics for facts.

You must be Rudolph's dad or something........If a WR turns a TD into an INT by a wrong route or a pass that slips through their hands how is that going to effect the QB stats? If you can not see how it is stupid to use straight numbers w/o looking at everything involved they you are being purposefully argumentative or a straight troll. If a QB is 15/20 200 yrds, 1 TD, 0 INTs that is a rating of 122.9. If a QB goes 14/20 180 yrds 0 TD, 1 INT the QB rating goes down to 77 which is 0 fault of the QB. Could be the exact same passes, exact same plays. The only difference is the WR catches the TD or the WR tips the pass to a DB. Maybe a true breakdown would favor Mason vs Kenny I have no idea. All I know is QB play is not as simple as black and white stats. You also have players who adjust to the NFL at different rates so even if they have a horrendous statistical year along w/ just looking bad overall you just never know how they are going to adjust the following year. I remember Eli Manning looking extremely bad his rookie season and he turned out alright.

 

[slashsteel]

Brady had cheating and steroids… those kind of intangibles you just cant teach lol

And whatever pharmaceutical he has been using. The king of shady, Tom Lady.

 

[FordFairLane]

You must be Rudolph's dad or something........If a WR turns a TD into an INT by a wrong route or a pass that slips through their hands how is that going to effect the QB stats? If you can not see how it is stupid to use straight numbers w/o looking at everything involved they you are being purposefully argumentative or a straight troll. If a QB is 15/20 200 yrds, 1 TD, 0 INTs that is a rating of 122.9. If a QB goes 14/20 180 yrds 0 TD, 1 INT the QB rating goes down to 77 which is 0 fault of the QB. Could be the exact same passes, exact same plays. The only difference is the WR catches the TD or the WR tips the pass to a DB. Maybe a true breakdown would favor Mason vs Kenny I have no idea. All I know is QB play is not as simple as black and white stats. You also have players who adjust to the NFL at different rates so even if they have a horrendous statistical year along w/ just looking bad overall you just never know how they are going to adjust the following year. I remember Eli Manning looking extremely bad his rookie season and he turned out alright.

You must be Rudolph’s ex-gf husband. Your hate for distain for him is excessive.

Do you know what subjective is? That is what you are trying to do. A pass that is intercepted is objective. Your subjective feelings can state whatever you want but it doesn’t change the subjective fact that the ball was intercepted. No matter how you feel.

I never said Pickett CAN’T turn it around. Just that it doesn’t bode well for him.

How can I put this. It’s better if KP would have started off with a 9 td to 3 int ratio vs a 2 td to 7 int ratio.

 

[FordFairLane]

Just because he came from a pro style offense doesn't mean the kid can't struggle then come on. As you are even showing some thought Allen was a boom or bust. He eventually boomed. So we will have to see what level of boom Kenny is.

Obviously. He’s struggled a lot.

And not some. All thought Allen was a work in progress. Show me one expert that says he’s the most nfl ready QB in that draft.

 

[topseed]

So how much is that first year riding the bench and not dressing worth? I mean what is the factual percentage of worth? You can't tell me because it is objective. It isn't a fact. It is an OPINION.

Jesus, you don't even know what objective versus subjective means, do you? Here's a tip: Opinions are subjective, guy. Facts are objective. How much value a year of NFL experience for a backup quarterback provides is SUBJECTIVE, but it's certainly worth something.

While your 130 attempt argument is indeed factual, we can still plainly see in the Josh Allen example that it proves absolutely nothing.

It's also a FACT that Rudolph's stats have gotten significantly worse, which counteracts your whole premise. But your excuses and OPINION somehow justify that. How convenient.

That is a fact. He SINGLE HANDLY LOST THE MIAMI GAME. He played like crap. I didn't say he is crap and is only going to play like crap.

Wait, so no one else on the entire team had a single thing to do with the Steelers losing to Miami? It's a stone-cold FACT that one man and one man only, Kenny Pickett, was fully responsible? That's not an opinion? lol

Gee, and here I thought that four dropped interceptions might have played at least a minor role in the outcome.

Thank you for proving my point. Rudolph was unfairly treated and judged for his 2019 season.

Nah. The point is clearly at the top of your head.

 

[slashsteel]

Obviously. He’s struggled a lot.

And not some. All thought Allen was a work in progress. Show me one expert that says he’s the most nfl ready QB in that draft.

Because someone said Pickett was the most pro ready QB means he shouldn't have growing pains? I know you are trying to drill your point home. Just think you are reaching a tad amount to do so. We have went over just about every opinion and scenerio. There were experts that broke down Picketts concerns too. They had them we had them. Why don't we just see how it transpires?