Running lower and lower on nfl love these days

[MT~Forged]

Again, Butker isn’t claiming he was taken out of context, what are you?

I actually take him at his actual word, not a headline from a biased source. I am not trying to twist his words to meet an agenda.

The only thing I took away from his speech is that he sounds just like 90% of all Catholics I have ever met. He's just espousing the same book of mythical tales, and the sexism that it promotes. I am also secure enough in my beliefs that I don’t freakout when someone else has a different belief. The same can not be said of you.

 

[Steeltime]

Yes, the ones petitioning for his suspension or expulsion from the league are unhinged.

Equally unhinged are people trying to defend Butker by saying he didn’t say what he said even though Butker isn’t even claiming that.

Even you agree that the people going nuts about his remarks and demanding he be expelled from the NFL are lunatics. However, the number of lunatics taking that position total hundreds of thousands. Given what occurred after his speech and the nutcase vitriol directed at him, do you think Harrison Butker is tempted at all, in any respect, in any fashion, to further engage in the conversation? Maybe that explains why he is not going to comment, "What the hell is wrong with you people? Stop taking my remarks out of context and for the love of God, stop dragging dead dogs around golf courses while trespassing!"

He is not going to comment any further. The nutcases will continue to nutcase. That is the thing about one side - they are simply crazy and we know you cannot reason with crazy. In fact, there are two things you can't reason with: nutcases and dead dogs.

 

[MT~Forged]

Nope. I was contrasting events and giving a hypothetical as to would be needed to make them comparable.

We will just have to agree to disagree

 

[Steeltime]

I honestly can’t think of one teacher or coach that heavily influenced me. Their role began and ended as teacher or coach. Maybe not everyone has the same unquestioned reverence toward authority figures as you, Tim.

I genuinely feel sorry for you then. Almost everybody I know has been greatly inspired by a teacher or coach. I still have a copy of a letter of recommendation sent by a college teacher of mine, who was gracious enough to send me a copy in 1985. The Professor retired this year.

I still communicate with another former college professor who recently celebrated his 89th birthday. A high school history professor became my high school's head football coach, but as a first-year very young teacher taught a history course that I still remember.

Great teachers who had a dramatic effect on my life.

Are there any racists or anti-semites in West Virginia?

Not really. Most reside in a suburb of West Virginia known as Washington, D.C. See, Biden, Joseph Robinette; Waters, Maxine; Pressley, Aryana; Ocasio-Cortez, Alexandria.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

We will just have to agree to disagree

That will never happen MT, you must be silenced. Civil discourse is dead and replaced with absolute insanity, which we must all consider normal behavior now.

 

[Stewey]

Again, Butker isn’t claiming he was taken out of context, what are you?

I don't think its a matter of us claiming that the left is taking Buckners words out of context.

It's a matter of the left failing to take Buckners words in context, if that makes sense.

In other words, so overcome by the "homemaker" comment, they heard nothing else he said.

 

[BLITZ]

I am not religious. My wife chose to stay home while the kids were young. It was 100% her choice. My salary allowed it to happen .
Here is the thing. We knew that was her plan way before we got married. We discussed it, agreed it was the right thing for her and our family.
I worked extra hard and extra hours to get into the position to have a salary that was needed to make that happen. Was not my dream but was a dream scena
rio for the family.
In my opinion that is what is needed. We must do what is best for the longterm for our families.
But the mom and dad have to know the plan beforehand

 

[topseed]

I went through 12 years of Catholic school. There is nothing inherent in Catholic teaching about encouraging women to become homemakers. We have a devout Catholic female Supreme Court justice for heaven’s sake. Why would these women bother with college if homemaking was their goal?

That's nice. But most children don't make the decision whether or not they're going to Catholic school at the primary/secondary level -- their parents put them there. When one is of age and chooses to attend a Catholic college, however, I would tend to think her own views of marriage and having children might be different than the average post-secondary female student.

Is it impossible to fathom that some women go to college to learn more about themselves, and then decide that a professional career is not for them? Has that ever happened?

And, btw, that devout Catholic Supreme Court justice went to college at Yale and Princeton, not somewhere like Benedictine. For heaven's sake.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Insinuating that most want to graduate get married and have kids in this day and age doesn't set well with everybody.

That's the whole point of his speech. People are living backwards, putting emphasis on career and acquiring things rather than on family.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

That's the whole point of his speech. People are living backwards, putting emphasis on career and acquiring things rather than on family.

We've been programmed that everyone needs to go to college, end up hopelessly in debt because of it while pursuing a career that might be able to pay off said debt.
Everyone is quick to criticize the Ozzie and Harriet lifestyle saying it's not possible now and likely never was. While my wife had a career, in fact earning more than me on more than one occasion, I grew up with the TV family of the 50's and 60's. You know what we didn't have????....more than one car and never a new one, only 1 TV in the house, no computers, internet, or cell phones for everyone in the house. Vacations were a Sunday afternoon drive, or the occasional drive-in movie. I was never on a plane before I enlisted.
How do we judge success today, by where we travel and what we accumulate. I believe that it is still possible to live on one salary, you just have to decide what's more important to you. That said, this whole discussion is just plain stupid, the choice, and even in the commencement speech it was a choice, should be left to the individual couple and not those screaming that they're somehow offended by an opinion.

 

[Steeltime]

That's the whole point of his speech. People are living backwards, putting emphasis on career and acquiring things rather than on family.

Yep. And as discussed in this thread, Butker raised that very point for BOTH men and women.

 

[Steeltime]

We've been programmed that everyone needs to go to college, end up hopelessly in debt because of it while pursuing a career that might be able to pay off said debt.
Everyone is quick to criticize the Ozzie and Harriet lifestyle saying it's not possible now and likely never was. While my wife had a career, in fact earning more than me on more than one occasion, I grew up with the TV family of the 50's and 60's. You know what we didn't have????....more than one car and never a new one, only 1 TV in the house, no computers, internet, or cell phones for everyone in the house. Vacations were a Sunday afternoon drive, or the occasional drive-in movie. I was never on a plane before I enlisted.

This ^^

In my family of 6, we had one television and one car until my mom got a part-time job when I was in high school to help pay the bills after my dad left a job he absolutely hated to go to one he enjoyed but took a pay cut in the process. I carpooled to high school and bought a car from my summer earnings when I was 20 years old.

I recall one family vacation - one. I was 16 years old when we drove to Los Angeles, stayed with family relatives and friends, and went to Disneyland and Knotts Berry Farm.

The lack of computers, phones, etc. was a non-issue since they didn't exist but I am convinced that my life is much better for not having those things. We went outside and played sports or went swimming or hung out with friends and tried to meet girls. "Likes" did not exist, and the only commentary had to be done face-to-face, which makes people a hell of a lot less brave in what they say about people.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

I recall one family vacation - one. I was 16 years old when we drove to Los Angeles, stayed with family relatives and friends, and went to Disneyland and Knotts Berry Farm.

Same, we drove from Murrysville (east of Pgh) to Niagara Falls, looked at it, and drove back the same day.

 

[Troglodyte]

We've been programmed that everyone needs to go to college, end up hopelessly in debt because of it while pursuing a career that might be able to pay off said debt.
Everyone is quick to criticize the Ozzie and Harriet lifestyle saying it's not possible now and likely never was. While my wife had a career, in fact earning more than me on more than one occasion, I grew up with the TV family of the 50's and 60's. You know what we didn't have????....more than one car and never a new one, only 1 TV in the house, no computers, internet, or cell phones for everyone in the house. Vacations were a Sunday afternoon drive, or the occasional drive-in movie. I was never on a plane before I enlisted.
How do we judge success today, by where we travel and what we accumulate. I believe that it is still possible to live on one salary, you just have to decide what's more important to you. That said, this whole discussion is just plain stupid, the choice, and even in the commencement speech it was a choice, should be left to the individual couple and not those screaming that they're somehow offended by an opinion.

Sounds familiar…

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/carter-crisis/

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I can’t tell

You never can. This comment is no surprise.

, are you advocating home schooling or demonizing it?

Neither. I'm stating a very, simple, unavoidable fact - schooling has a HUGE impact on the development of all children.

You argue against logic, always.

I honestly can’t think of one teacher or coach that heavily influenced me. Their role began and ended as teacher or coach. Maybe not everyone has the same unquestioned reverence toward authority figures as you, Tim.

This explains a LOT. Teachers should be influencers. Anyone who TEACHES influences. They INSTRUCT. And many times over, they are role models. Sometimes they are bad apples. To go through an entire educational career and be able to say that NO teacher or coach heavily influenced you is both sad and (given it's you) unsurprising.

Mrs. Miller in the 4th grade had a huge impact on me at a needed time in life. Mr. Apple in high school for 4 years, impacted me in a lot of ways. Mrs. Effland, my English teacher for 2 grades, was an inspiration (who led me to choose to do a semester abroad in London, because of her personal love for Shakespeare). And Dr. Teer, in college, my advisor, hugely impacted my career choices. In fact, I modeled my career after his.

Finally, my HS wrestling and track coach (an NCAA Champion), taught me many lessons in a difficult time in my life.

I'm sorry your life was devoid (again I'm not surprised) of the positive influences teachers and coaches SHOULD have on our youth.

It takes a village.

Says the guy who took the side of the “many fine people” in Charlottesville chanting “The Jew will not replace us” while protesting the removal of confederate statues.

I did? <waiting>

One was protesting a genocidal war, the other removal of arguably racist statues.

Woah, hole up wait! Did you just justify the nationwide, anti-semitic protests calling for the extermination of a race because "you determine" the war is genocidal?

You literally just rationalized it. You support From the River to the Sea. The extermination of a race. Because that is what this current movement is calling for.

Quite a bit more severe than "Jews will not replace us" most people with an ounce of logic in their brain would see.

Are there any racists or anti-semites in West Virginia?

There are. And in PA. And at Columbia.

Is everyone in PA an anti-semite?

You're this retarded.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

People complain about homes prices and there are some shenanigans with companies like blackrock buying them up. But part of why houses are so expensive now is that they are much bigger.

https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/median-home-size-in-us/

Median home sizes have grown by 150% since 1980​

In 1980, the median size of a new home in the U.S. was 1,595 square feet. Nearly 40 years later, the median size of newly constructed homes was 2,386 square feet (2018). Most of the newly constructed homes in the U.S. boast four or more bedrooms, multiple bathrooms, a patio, and a porch, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.[1] On top of that, houses also come equipped with large kitchens, home office space, and even dedicated rooms for man caves or craft rooms.

You also had more people living in a house. A house use to be Kitchen, living room, bathroom and 2 bedrooms upstairs. Now everyone wants a mini mansion. Most young people looking for a house today would not even set foot in one their grandparents would have considered a dream house.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

So I've tried not to weigh in directly on Butker's comments. Those that know me know how I feel (hint: I loved his speech and found the outrage to it to be ridiculous ).

That said, my own perspective.

I was always envious of my wife. I felt like I, the man, got the raw deal. Flame on me if you like.

I got great grades. I graduated with honors. I began making money at 24 years old no 24 year old should make. And I never really loved my job. Have been damned good at it. But never (until 3 years ago) jumped out of bed to go to work because I was in love with my profession. Work was a means to an end - pay the bills, provide the life needed for my family.

When I got married, and I had to go on a business trip, I'd be 'ok' with it (not happy, never enjoyed business travel). But I did it because I was laying the foundation for a future for our family we were about to build.

Then I had kids. Having kids rocked my world. Changed me in ways I never expected. I used to think before kids "I won't ever be able to watch them play soccer or little league or high school sports with the same passion I do the Steelers." God was I wrong. My kids became my day to day passion. Their little games and concerts and events and moments meant more to me than anything in the entire world.

And then I'd have to go to a conference on the other side of the country and be gone for 4 nights and I'd want to scream at the moon. I felt like God was robbing me of 4 days and nights with my kids, days and hours I would never (and did not) get back. And I was jealous of my wife, being able to stay at home. She would say (as I would pack and be sour) to look forward to my trip and I would say "I'm missing X, Y, and Z moments with my boys I'll never, ever get back."

I never resented her for being able to take off 10 years to be a SAHM. But I was jealous AF. She would always console me like "the trip should be fun, enjoy it." I would always reply "I don't care what we do, how great it is, it's not being here with the boys and you."

Being in the air, on thousands of flights, has always felt like being in jail to me. Trapped, in a prison, kept from where you wanted to be.

Then, in the early 2000s, I was laid off with a nice severance in April. I said to her, I'm not going back to work until January of the next year. Staying at home and doing the Dad thing.

I took 8-9 months off, stayed at home, spent time with my kids. It was AMAZING. Truly, some of the best months of my life. Took them to school, picked them up, went to PTA meetings. I realized, I'd have loved nothing at all in the world more than to be Mr. Dad. That would have been my dream.

Sadly I had to go back to work. Flight delays and business and travel robbed me of so many things. I missed my 2nd son's first steps due to "work."

Both men and women sacrifice. I'm a man who's jealous of the SAHM. If I could dial it all up again, I'd find a woman who was talented and career minded so I could stay at home with my kids and soak up every damned moment, good or bad. And I'd applaud Harrison for his comments.

Career minded men who also love their children as I do sacrifice a lot. It may not be their careers, or income. They give up more. Time with their families. That's worth more than anything.

 

[oneforthebus]

That's nice. But most children don't make the decision whether or not they're going to Catholic school at the primary/secondary level -- their parents put them there. When one is of age and chooses to attend a Catholic college, however, I would tend to think her own views of marriage and having children might be different than the average post-secondary female student.

Is it impossible to fathom that some women go to college to learn more about themselves, and then decide that a professional career is not for them? Has that ever happened?

And, btw, that devout Catholic Supreme Court justice went to college at Yale and Princeton, not somewhere like Benedictine. For heaven's sake.

No one is saying that some women might not want to take that path. The assumption that MOST would, at 21 years old, fresh out of college, is sexist.

If you interviewed every woman who graduated from Benedictine college, I highly doubt the majority would say "I came here to become a homemaker."

 

[oneforthebus]

That's the whole point of his speech. People are living backwards, putting emphasis on career and acquiring things rather than on family.

That's a super nice interpretation if only he had addressed his "Focus on family more than career" comments to men and women. Why do women have to focus on homemaking while men get to pursue their career dreams (with full support of a homemaker?)

 

[oneforthebus]

So I've tried not to weigh in directly on Butker's comments. Those that know me know how I feel (hint: I loved his speech and found the outrage to it to be ridiculous ).

That said, my own perspective.

I was always envious of my wife. I felt like I, the man, got the raw deal. Flame on me if you like.

I got great grades. I graduated with honors. I began making money at 24 years old no 24 year old should make. And I never really loved my job. Have been damned good at it. But never (until 3 years ago) jumped out of bed to go to work because I was in love with my profession. Work was a means to an end - pay the bills, provide the life needed for my family.

When I got married, and I had to go on a business trip, I'd be 'ok' with it (not happy, never enjoyed business travel). But I did it because I was laying the foundation for a future for our family we were about to build.

Then I had kids. Having kids rocked my world. Changed me in ways I never expected. I used to think before kids "I won't ever be able to watch them play soccer or little league or high school sports with the same passion I do the Steelers." God was I wrong. My kids became my day to day passion. Their little games and concerts and events and moments meant more to me than anything in the entire world.

And then I'd have to go to a conference on the other side of the country and be gone for 4 nights and I'd want to scream at the moon. I felt like God was robbing me of 4 days and nights with my kids, days and hours I would never (and did not) get back. And I was jealous of my wife, being able to stay at home. She would say (as I would pack and be sour) to look forward to my trip and I would say "I'm missing X, Y, and Z moments with my boys I'll never, ever get back."

I never resented her for being able to take off 10 years to be a SAHM. But I was jealous AF. She would always console me like "the trip should be fun, enjoy it." I would always reply "I don't care what we do, how great it is, it's not being here with the boys and you."

Being in the air, on thousands of flights, has always felt like being in jail to me. Trapped, in a prison, kept from where you wanted to be.

Then, in the early 2000s, I was laid off with a nice severance in April. I said to her, I'm not going back to work until January of the next year. Staying at home and doing the Dad thing.

I took 8-9 months off, stayed at home, spent time with my kids. It was AMAZING. Truly, some of the best months of my life. Took them to school, picked them up, went to PTA meetings. I realized, I'd have loved nothing at all in the world more than to be Mr. Dad. That would have been my dream.

Sadly I had to go back to work. Flight delays and business and travel robbed me of so many things. I missed my 2nd son's first steps due to "work."

Both men and women sacrifice. I'm a man who's jealous of the SAHM. If I could dial it all up again, I'd find a woman who was talented and career minded so I could stay at home with my kids and soak up every damned moment, good or bad. And I'd applaud Harrison for his comments.

Career minded men who also love their children as I do sacrifice a lot. It may not be their careers, or income. They give up more. Time with their families. That's worth more than anything.

No one is saying they don't. I applaud you and my husband and many other men who sacrifice a lot to support their families. As mentioned, biology and cultural expectations means women are often the main caregivers of children. This is a wonderful thing when it works out well as I have experienced myself. It unfortunately doesn't work out that great for all women, some of whom must work in order to keep the family afloat, some who never marry, or marry badly, or whose husbands die or leave them, or who find that they are just not cut out to be "homemakers" and find a successful career necessary to their personal fulfillment.

And they deserve that option just as much as any man who feels that he could never be a stay at home dad deserves that option.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

No one is saying they don't. I applaud you and my husband and many other men who sacrifice a lot to support their families. As mentioned, biology and cultural expectations means women are often the main caregivers of children. This is a wonderful thing when it works out well as I have experienced myself. It unfortunately doesn't work out that great for all women, some of whom must work in order to keep the family afloat, some who never marry, or marry badly, or whose husbands die or leave them, or who find that they are just not cut out to be "homemakers" and find a successful career necessary to their personal fulfillment.

And they deserve that option just as much as any man who feels that he could never be a stay at home dad deserves that option.

And vice versa can be said to all of that, as I wrote.

 

[Djfan]

Career minded men who also love their children as I do sacrifice a lot. It may not be their careers, or income. They give up more. Time with their families. That's worth more than anything.

As a teacher trying to support a family and have Mrs. Fan stay home to raise them, I worked my butt off. There were times when I had three jobs. The woke jagoff is the education cespool taught them that I was really just a self seeking materialist for working like that. Now they are victims, and don't have anything to do with me.

Thanks.

 

[Djfan]

No one is saying they don't. I applaud you and my husband and many other men who sacrifice a lot to support their families. As mentioned, biology and cultural expectations means women are often the main caregivers of children. This is a wonderful thing when it works out well as I have experienced myself. It unfortunately doesn't work out that great for all women, some of whom must work in order to keep the family afloat, some who never marry, or marry badly, or whose husbands die or leave them, or who find that they are just not cut out to be "homemakers" and find a successful career necessary to their personal fulfillment.

And they deserve that option just as much as any man who feels that he could never be a stay at home dad deserves that option.

I agree with what you are saying, but it's not the whole picture, either. The ex Mrs. Fan was the cause of our divorce. It happens. Also, I hear feminists still love to vilify men as pigs, etc. So, while what you said I agree with 100%, the picture is still tainted with bias and nonsense. That is why people can call his comments "controversial" when they are not. People love division.

Kudos to you, OFTB.

 

[JMM]

Only another 838 pages to catch the "vaccine" thread.

 

[Superman]

I genuinely feel sorry for you then. Almost everybody I know has been greatly inspired by a teacher or coach. I still have a copy of a letter of recommendation sent by a college teacher of mine, who was gracious enough to send me a copy in 1985. The Professor retired this year.

I still communicate with another former college professor who recently celebrated his 89th birthday. A high school history professor became my high school's head football coach, but as a first-year very young teacher taught a history course that I still remember.

Great teachers who had a dramatic effect on my life.



Not really. Most reside in a suburb of West Virginia known as Washington, D.C. See, Biden, Joseph Robinette; Waters, Maxine; Pressley, Aryana; Ocasio-Cortez, Alexandria.

thanks to the Book of Faces, I've connected to people I went to school with. Many of the people I attended elementary school with can tell how a teacher or coach from as long ago influenced them. Even if we're sarcastic about it.

Likewise, high school teachers have also had an influence on us - many of us sharing anecdotes of how a teacher or coach pulled us aside for encouragement or flat out praised us in front of others.

the role of teachers/coaches should have never ended when the bell rang to end class.

but then, not everyone was put on this planet to empty conference room trash bins while dragging a dead dog.