SO, did Kaepernick have a legit point?

[Steeltime]

I just love those who make endless excuses for murderers. You better hope things like God and karma do not exist. They had like 6 cops on a man down on the ground, and their only solution was to full him full of hot lead. Why are cops the biggest wussies of all? How can't 6 burly cops not be able to control one guy already on the ground? How can they not control him with any option other to just pump him full of lead? Does that sound reasonable or plausible to you? Oh, wait, to you, it will.

"Africa" was waving his knife at pedestrians 10 minutes earlier, took a swing at a cop, ignored the stun gun and then grabbed a cop's gun. Those are not make-believe like your 9-11 fantasies, and are instead something known as "facts."

As far as the skinny, tiny person picking up a baton to "half wave" it around, the brave officers took the 80 lb person down with ease. I can handle an 80 lb myself too, don't even need several other men to help me. The fact that you make mention of this is beyond laughable. No, pathetic is the right word.

You are the one who insists that these cops are raging, murderous lunatics ... and some ******* moron picks up a baton and waves it at them and they treat him like a lost kitten? Hmmm, does not fit your asinine narrative so you make your usual, idiotic response: "Oh, I could have taken him down."

****-knob, the point is that THE MURDEROUS COPS TREATED HIM LIKE A CRYSTAL VASE.

Finally, you intermingle the Kelly Thomas situation with the "Africa" shooting. Two completely different matters. Try and stay on point.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

"Africa" was waving his knife at pedestrians 10 minutes earlier, took a swing at a cop, ignored the stun gun and then grabbed a cop's gun. Those are not make-believe like your 9-11 fantasies, and are instead something known as "facts."

If you are told to drop your weapon and you don't and are shot dead by the cop(s) then you had it coming and I don't feel the slightest bit bad about it. And I would tell the perp's mother to her face that she raised an idiot and he deserved it.

 

[Steeltime]

If you are told to drop your weapon and you don't and are shot dead by the cop(s) then you had it coming and I don't feel the slightest bit bad about it. And I would tell the perp's mother to her face that she raised an idiot and he deserved it.

The guy had all sorts of mental issues, was involved in a bank robbery in 2000 where he pistol-whipped and kicked a teller because he could not get the safe open, and stole the identity of a French citizen when arrested and tried, and used that stolen identity for years.

The dude was all sorts of crazy, very violent, threatened and intimidated pedestrians and store owners in the area where he put up a tent, and attacked the police trying to arrest him.

POP thinks that the police are obligated to watch a suspect murder one of them before responding. Of course, the fact that POP does not face getting shot or maimed makes his Monday-morning quarterbacking of police tactics with a crazy, violent homeless guy a flaccid joke.

 

[POP]

What are you arguing here?

Isn't it obvious?

What exactly do you want done? What steps do you want to see taken?

For cops to be held accountable when they unnecessarily kill or beat people. I think that is overwhelmingly obvious.

As far as I can tell you are more outraed at the people here who disagree with you than anything. So how would you fix this issue?

There are many possibilities. But let's start with the most obvious: disband Internal Affairs (run by cops) and form citizen panels to investigate crimes by cops so there is hope of legit justice. End this insanity where cops can commit murder, and not only do they not face jail time, but they get to keep their jobs. That is outrageous. In 1,000's of people being murdered bu cops, a total of 6 cops were found guilty of any crime. 6.

I don't think anyone would argue that there are lousy cops who should be cleansed from police forces wherever they are. But the problem is nobody seems to be coming up with real solutions.

I just gave you one. Putting cops in charge of cop justice is a scam. That needs to end yesterday. Also, if their camera's "malfunction" during beatings or shootings, heavily fine and suspend the cops involved the first time, and fire them the 2nd. End of story.

See, my problem is I remember stuff. In a way it is a curse. But I remember movies, comedians, popular music through the '80s and '90s and even later making reference to the fact that cops aren't seen in black neighborhoods. If a crime happens in a white community, they are there, but not in a black community. The latest I remember is a reference in the movie "21 Jump Street" where the Ice Cube character says that the kid who overdosed is white, so people give a ****. So there have been attempts to remedy that. How do you strike that balance?[/QUOTE]

 

[POP]

If you are told to drop your weapon and you don't and are shot dead by the cop(s) then you had it coming and I don't feel the slightest bit bad about it. And I would tell the perp's mother to her face that she raised an idiot and he deserved it.

So, you think every/most cases of cops killing is because a person has a weapon and refuses to drop it? Is that what you think? There are thousands of death by cop cases where the killed person had no weapon.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

The guy had all sorts of mental issues, was involved in a bank robbery in 2000 where he pistol-whipped and kicked a teller because he could not get the safe open, and stole the identity of a French citizen when arrested and tried, and used that stolen identity for years.

The dude was all sorts of crazy, very violent, threatened and intimidated pedestrians and store owners in the area where he put up a tent, and attacked the police trying to arrest him.

POP thinks that the police are obligated to watch a suspect murder one of them before responding. Of course, the fact that POP does not face getting shot or maimed makes his Monday-morning quarterbacking of police tactics with a crazy, violent homeless guy a flaccid joke.

Fine, the world is better off without him.
At least twice a month and sometimes more I have to put people back together after they've had an autopsy after dying from a heroin overdose. Although drug addicts are good for business, I have arthritis in my thumbs and it's a lot of suturing and after a while they hurt like hell. So I don't have a lot of sympathy for criminals and other fucktards.
About ten years ago I gave my kids the drug talk. It basically went like, "If I see you dying in the gutter with a needle sticking out of your arm I'll step over you if I don't step on you." And I meant every word.

 

[Stewey]

Heard something profound from Medved today.

Our country is more than divided, it is fractured. Fractured into many pieces...and the only thing we had left holding us together was when we all stood together taking part in the tradition of singing of the Nation Anthem before a sporting event.

And wouldn't you know it the liberals went ahead and ****** that up too.

 

[hamster]

So, you think every/most cases of cops killing is because a person has a weapon and refuses to drop it? Is that what you think? There are thousands of death by cop cases where the killed person had no weapon.

Please cite the details for every one of them.

 

[Steelin]

Probably should be focusing your fears elsewhere...

Did I say I was afraid? Not usually. If I am, I take heed.

 

[Steelin]

I was 17, white, drunk and running down a small midwestern city street when a cop yelled "Halt"! I kept running scared and drunk as I was. He then yelled "Halt or I'll shoot!!!" He was serious. I stopped in my tracks. I explained my behavior as best I could and he sent me on my way. That has stuck with me for the decades that have passed since then. I have never had a problem with an officer since then.

 

[Steeltime]

For cops to be held accountable when they unnecessarily kill or beat people. I think that is overwhelmingly obvious.

And that ******* 6th amendment/right to jury trial should be ****-canned. Just have you decide these cases, right?

There are many possibilities. But let's start with the most obvious: disband Internal Affairs (run by cops) and form citizen panels to investigate crimes by cops so there is hope of legit justice. End this insanity where cops can commit murder, and not only do they not face jail time, but they get to keep their jobs. That is outrageous. In 1,000's of people being murdered bu cops, a total of 6 cops were found guilty of any crime. 6.

Hey, dumbass, let me explain this again: If a jury finds you not guilty, THEN YOU DON'T ******* GO TO JAIL. Perhaps - just perhaps - your idiotic know-it-all comments on these matters is worth less than ... oh, I don't know, the decisions by prosecutors and juries!!

I just gave you one. Putting cops in charge of cop justice is a scam. That needs to end yesterday. Also, if their camera's "malfunction" during beatings or shootings, heavily fine and suspend the cops involved the first time, and fire them the 2nd. End of story.

Further, your rants about police-governing-police is bullshit. You are completely ignorant and ill-informed on this process. I have done it for a living.

First, on the criminal prosecution front, the district attorney's office decides if the evidence merits possible criminal prosecution. Second, the decision as to whether or not a police officer faces criminal charges for excessive force rests with the grand jury (for a preliminary hearing) or a judge (on an indictment). The police are not "controlling" any part of either process, and indeed the people sit on the grand jury.

Third, any civil lawsuit for excessive force is decided by a jury of 12 citizens and two alternates, not by the police. You are completely, absolutely, fundamentally wrong in believing that "police determine excessive force" matters.

Fourth, I don't give a **** about your personal preferences. The 6th amendment guarantees a right to a trial by a jury of our peers. The fact that you are uninformed on the Constitution and the criminal process and the civil process does not constitute "evidence."

So how about using your extraordinary memory to recall what I have taught you - learning that took me 3 years of law school at a cost of $35,000 and 27 years of legal practice - about excessive force issue?

You're welcome.

 

[Steeltime]

Probably should be focusing your fears elsewhere...

Tibs, you REALLLLLLY need to use an updated list. Those numbers clearly do NOT include:

1. Muslim snipers Snipers Lee Boyd Malvo and John Allen Muhammad murder 22 Americans
2. Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, an Iranian-American seeking to “avenge the deaths of Muslims worldwide” and “punish” the U.S. government, intentionally runs down and injures nine people with his sport utility vehicle on the campus of the University of North Carolina.
3. Michael Julius Ford, a 22-year-old convert to Islam, uses a long-barrel handgun to shoot four co-workers and a police officer at a Denver, Colorado, Safeway, claiming the attack was “Allah’s choice.” One person died in the shooting spree. When Ford fired at police, he was shot and killed.
4. Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad – a convert to Islam who had traveled to Yemen – opened fire on U.S. soldiers standing in front of a Little Rock, Arkansas, recruiting office. Muhammad killed one private and injured another. When he was arrested Muhammad explained that he had planned to kill as many soldiers as possible and was given the assignment by Al-Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula.
5. Three Jewish men are discovered in Waltham, Massachusetts, with their throats slit from ear to ear and nearly decapitated. Authorities believed the murders were not random, and thousands of dollars in cash and marijuana were left at the scene. According to reports, authorities believe Boston Marathon bombers Tamerlan Tsarnaev and his younger brother, both Muslims, may have been responsible for the triple homicide.
6. Muslim Chechen brothers Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and Tamerlan Tsarnaev detonate two pressure cooker bombs during the Boston Marathon, killing three people and injuring an estimated 264 others
7. The Fort Hood massacre (13 murdered)
8. The Orlando shooting (49 murdered)
9. The San Bernardino massacre (14 murdered)

That is 106 United States citizens murdered on our ******* soil, and hundreds more badly injured.

Your list is bullshit, Tibs.

 

[Tibs]

 

[Tibs]

 

[SteelChip]

 

[DBS1970]

I'm going to agree with PoP on the issue of police investigating themselves. There is an inherent conflict of interest with any department investigating its own employees especially its sworn officers.

Steeltime,

Two things with your points, first the evidence the prosecutor sees comes from the department that has an interest in protecting its image gathered by officers that have an interest in protecting their friends. In other words the good ole boy network. Second in many cases the prosecutors have a conflict of interest in prosecuting officers that they have worked with and known for years. Once again the good ole boy network protecting its own. What is the harm in letting another agency from another geographic area with no conflict of interest do the investigation overseen by a similarly situated prosecutor overseen by a citizens panel? The right to a fair trail is still there you would just see a lot more bad cops going to trial for criminality and a lot more incompetent cops being removed from positions of authority and that is a win-win sithat ion for everybody.

 

[Tibs]

Yep, and the "Hands up, don't shoot" t shirts sold like hotcakes until the whole thing was debunked as the race baiting sham that it was. I suspect this will be the same.

Update...fyi.

Colin Kaepernick jersey leads NFL sales after national anthem protest
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/colin-kaepernick-jersey-leads-nfl-sales-national-anthem-protest/

Based on online sales, San Francisco 49er Colin Kaepernick has the most popular NFL jersey as the football season kicks off.

Weeks after his silent protest of the U.S. national anthem led to a slew of think pieces, the back-up quarterback’s No. 7 jersey was the top-seller at NFLShop.com, CBS Sports reported.

The demand for the jersey looks to outweigh the number of fans who have burned it, disagreeing with Kaepernick’s actions.

The quarterback made headlines for sitting — and later taking a knee — during a preseason game. Later, Kaepernick told reporters that his move was meant “to bring awareness and make people realize what’s really going on in this country.”

“There are a lot of things that are going on that are unjust, people aren’t being held accountable for, and that’s something that needs to change,” he said. “That’s something this country stands for freedom, liberty, justice for all. And it’s not happening for all right now.”

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Update...fyi.

Colin Kaepernick jersey leads NFL sales after national anthem protest
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/colin-kaepernick-jersey-leads-nfl-sales-national-anthem-protest/

At least that might keep him from getting cut.

 

[IndySteel]

Team USA hockey coach:

The always-colorful John Tortorella will be behind the bench as head coach of Team USA during the World Cup of Hockey later this month. He's already making it known that he's not going to tolerate any national anthem protests from his players during the tournament.

"If any of my players sit on the bench for the national anthem, they will sit there the rest of the game," Tortorella told ESPN's Linda Cohn on Tuesday.

 

[Tibs]

"If any of my players sit on the bench for the national anthem, they will sit there the rest of the game," Tortorella told ESPN's Linda Cohn on Tuesday.

Welcome to North Korea.

 

[deljzc]

I still think Policing is by and large done ethically and correctly. And without racial bias or malice.

We are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Granted it's still a hill that could and should be improved upon but of all the issues facing black Americans, this is NOT nearly the highest on the list.

Go ahead and protest. I guess it's a cause. Might save 5-10 people a year. Might send an additional bad cop or two away via an impartial review. Body cameras aren't such a bad idea, just make police cost more. Same with additional training.

I question the consequences during this protest. If cops stop policing black neighborhoods "as hard" do 5-10 more black people die? Probably. Statistics are already indicating that in those cities "protesting" the most, murder rates are up (Baltimore, Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Louis). Are Black Lives really being saved?

If we stop having young men stand up and volunteer to take on the difficult civil service of policing inner cities, does that help Black Lives?

I guess we'll just have to see what the fallout is. My guess is more bureaucracy. More rules. More hearings. More taxpayer money. More "imaginary jobs" that are tax funded that deal with "police/community" relations (whatever the hell that means).

If that's what people want.... go right on and protest.

 

[Tibs]

At the end of the day, it should be perfectly clear all forms of police brutality and the excessive use of force is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Regardless if the victim is black or white. Bad cops need to be weeded out and held accountable. We cannot accept a society where large segments of the population live in fear of the police that are there to serve & protect them.

We need much more of this (see video) and much less of a guns blazing-away, 'shoot first, ask questions later' approach.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

At the end of the day, it should be perfectly clear all forms of police brutality and the excessive use of force is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Regardless if the victim is black or white. Bad cops need to be weeded out and held accountable. We cannot accept a society where large segments of the population live in fear of the police that are there to serve & protect them.

We need much more of this (see video) and much less of a guns blazing-away, 'shoot first, ask questions later' approach.

"We cannot accept a society where large segments of the population live in fear of the police that are there to serve & protect them." Sounds great BUT !

But we live in a society where it perfectly fine if young black males murder other young black males at a staggering rate and nobody gives a **** or has one protest about it. That is the hypocrisy that makes there whole protest seem shallow and hollow.

500 dead in Chicago already.

 

[DBS1970]

It seems to me that a lot of people ignore hundreds and hundreds of instances of police misconduct in brutality because they happen in different places all over the country. What's happening when they do this is they miss the big picture that this is becoming a problem of a systemic nature. The other thing we miss is that there are more whites unjustifiably killed by police then there are blacks. So what we're missing in the big picture is that police forces are becoming increasingly militant and that the problem is not a racist problem the problem is a problem of burgeoning tyranny.

That being said once again I will reiterate I have no problems with Colin Kaepernick holding his opinion and saying what he said. I take issue with the venue he chose to say it. He should not do what he did during the anthem because it is a time when we render honors to our nation.

 

[Stryker]

I played hockey with inner city cops in Philly. They were white, and dropped the N bomb more than NWA. Night after night, they had to police black neighborhoods. Normally the drug dealers, domestic violence cases, and assault cases all involved blacks. All their shootings involved blacks. They developed a bias due to the sheer number of blacks they had to arrest. This is a natural progression of associating generalizations within a specific demographic.

Is it right or fair? no it's not, but I can't fault a cop for being careful when dealing with potential perp. I only have a problem with the killing of unarmed perps, regardless of skin color.