SO, did Kaepernick have a legit point?

[Tibs]

Good on them...

The entire Seattle Seahawks team will protest the national anthem at opening game
http://usuncut.com/resistance/entire-seattle-seahawks-roster-will-protest-national-anthem-sunda/

The Seattle Seahawks will become the first NFL team to join Colin Kaepernick’s silent protest during the national anthem this Sunday.

In their home opener against the Miami Dolphins, the Seattle Seahawks have planned a “big surprise” during the national anthem, according to starting linebacker Bobby Wagner. Wagner emphasized that the entire roster will take part in the protest, though he didn’t specify if the team would sit or kneel.

“Anything we want to do, it’s not going to be individual. It’s going to be a team thing. That’s what the world needs to see. The world needs to see people coming together versus being individuals,” Wagner told the Seattle Times.

The team has the support of head coach Pete Carroll, who recently stood up for cornerback Jeremy Lane when he sat during the national anthem in solidarity with San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick last Thursday before Seattle’s final preseason game against the Oakland Raiders.

“[Lane]’s pretty clear on what he did and what he was trying to express and I think it is very simple and so we’ll leave that up to him,” Carroll told the Times.

In addition to Lane and Wagner, starting wide receiver Doug Baldwin has publicly expressed support for Kaepernick on social media. After Kaepernick started receiving blowback for refusing to stand up for the national anthem, Baldwin defended the protest and cast Kaepernick’s critics as ignorant of what free speech entails.

Kaepernick’s silent protest has also been recently joined by U.S. Women’s National Team soccer player Megan Rapinoe, and several members of the West Virginia Tech volleyball team. Kaepernick, who said he refuses to “stand to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people,” has said he’ll continue his protest until police brutality is no longer an issue.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Good on them...

The entire Seattle Seahawks team will protest the national anthem at opening game
http://usuncut.com/resistance/entire-seattle-seahawks-roster-will-protest-national-anthem-sunda/

Why in your view is this good Tibs, besides your anti-American views?

When will these athletes sit in protest of our Government doing nothing to fix the problem in Chicago?
When will they sit in protest of the killings of police officers by blacks (which takes more lives than the reverse)?

 

[Tibs]

Why in your view is this good Tibs, besides your anti-American views?

The simple fact that you're against it tells me I'm on the right side of the issue and on the right side of history.

 

[Steeltime]

When will they sit in protest of the killings of police officers by blacks (which takes more lives than the reverse)?

If the NFL told players they were subject to fines for refusing to stand for the national anthem, would there be an outcry? You betcha.

Meanwhile, the NFL will not allow the Cowboys to put emblems on their helmets to honor the five murdered police officers in Dallas. What have the players done to protest this, since they are so concerned about the violence directed at citizens? Yep, nothing.

 

[DBS1970]

The simple fact that you're against it tells me I'm on the right side of the issue and on the right side of history.

If they do the hands up don't shoot gimmick coming out of the tunnel I am fine with it. If they refuse to leave the field at halftime and unfurl a giant black lives matter banner it is fine by me.

When they refuse to stand and render honors to the flag and the nation they are disrespecting everything about the USA.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Yet another reason to hate the Seachickens. Whiny assed, northwest liberal, tree hugging ref blaming, *******.

 

[deljzc]

Protesting means nothing unless you know what changes (if anything) will actually be done. Let them protest.

The real debate comes down to what policy/laws are enacted (if any) and what my position on them will be. I don't have to listen to peaceful protests if I think they are misguided. I DO care when protests break the law (like stopping traffic). I DO care when protests incite violence (there are laws against that too).

Having the Seahawks kneel during the National Anthem doesn't effect me in the least. And it really doesn't effect anyone here except we have to listen ad naseum to the liberal media make a big deal about it. I've already stopped going to Pro Football Talk because of all the politics. http://www.profootballrumors.com/ is just as good without the bullshit Mike Florio likes to preach and talk down to every right-wing fan out there.

Same thing happened with gun control a couple years back. Bob Costas lectured everyone during a SPORTING EVENT about gun control but I can't remember one law that was passed (and held up in court) that has happened since then. It's just hot air, just like this is.

Let the liberals try and pass unconstitutional laws that single out police officers or single out blacks to help. Those are illegal and every time they race bait and try to bring race into law enforcement it gets shot down. And if not, I'm probably okay with it either way. Likely more bureaucracy to bankrupt cities even further.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

The simple fact that you're against it tells me I'm on the right side of the issue and on the right side of history.

This is simply conjecture on your part. I'm all for their freedom of speech. I'm very against their selective use of said freedom of speech. So back to my questions, which like Pop, you refuse to answer...

When will these athletes sit in protest of our Government doing nothing to fix the problem in Chicago?
When will they sit in protest of the killings of police officers by blacks (which takes more lives than the reverse)?

The fact that you won't acknowledge these as bigger issues than the one at hand tells me us all we need to know.

 

[deljzc]

Tim,

Because this is the narrative and "current hot-button issue" created and covered by the media to generate ratings. That's why. Plain and simple. There are a million causes worth protesting in the world. This one just happens to be the way the wind is blowing.

Wind will change. Media will find something else. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[Tibs]

So back to my questions, which like Pop, you refuse to answer...

When will these athletes sit in protest of our Government doing nothing to fix the problem in Chicago?
When will they sit in protest of the killings of police officers by blacks (which takes more lives than the reverse)?

How would I know? You should ask them.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Tim,

Because this is the narrative and "current hot-button issue" created and covered by the media to generate ratings. That's why. Plain and simple. There are a million causes worth protesting in the world. This one just happens to be the way the wind is blowing.

Wind will change. Media will find something else. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Oh I get it, I just want to hear Libtards admit it. There are FAR greater issues to protest that will save far more lives. But, because this fits the narrative - which is a very dangerous one that is leading to the assassination of police officers and is creating further racial divide in this country - I protest. It's another example of the media filling brains with facts that aren't facts and getting the populace riled up about a problem, that in the end, isn't a problem in comparison to others in the same category - police being killed by blacks and black on black violence being among them.

If your house is on fire, you don't go pay attention to a leak in a faucet. We should be concentrating our energies on real problems that are taking thousands of lives. Not that this isn't a real problem, but it is the equivalent of the leaking faucet when compared to Chicago (the fire in the house).

 

[POP]

This is the first I'm hearing about it. I trust the media will let me know which stories I need to get riled up about. This wasn't one of them, I suppose.

That's exactly right. Just turn on the tv so you can be told what to get all riled up about.

 

[Steeltime]

That's exactly right. Just turn on the tv so you can be told what to get all riled up about.

I know, dumb, right? We should instead listen to you about what should rile us up.

 

[POP]

I framed the argument that way on purpose, hoping you would go there. In a perfect world that would not be your only two options. However, we live in a far from perfect world. We have to deal with what is, before we deal with what should be.

So what you have going on right now the police are not policing as aggressively because of fears that every little thing they do could potentially be construed as abusive or Nazi as you have stated. And crime in cities like Baltimore is increasing markedly. Outright lies are being told concerning police situations and people in the highest positions in government do nothing to refute them.

Somewhere a balance is going to have to be struck. It isn't going to happen right now the way it seems. You are a shining example of that. Everyone on here you have argued with has acknowledged there are bad police officers and they should be purged from police forces all over the country. But you seem unwilling to acknowledge that there are police officers all over doing the right things, trying to do their best to keep people safe. You are unwilling, even when people with first hand knowledge of a particular situation tell you otherwise, to see anything other than your view. So there is no middle ground here it appears. You are the one making everything mutually exclusive.

SUre, if you say so. Read what I wrote: It says there are more than option and 1 and 2 and that 1 and 2 are NOT mutually exclusive. So if you are going to disregard what I assert there is no sense in having a discussion, as it is a waste of time.

You teed it up as our only two choices were:

1.) No cops in bad neighborhoods, or,

2.) cops being all hard core thug in those neighborhoods.

Someone asked I provide a solution, and I did.

We need panels to review all sketchy cases, who are not paid by the police dept. and have no "buddies" on the force. Make the panel's decisions valid and enforceable. The members should be formed from the citizens who live in the area.

Put the power back to the people.

There is a solution.

Now pretend you didn't notice I offered one.

 

[POP]

So, let's see. They break a door down, with no search warrant, not even announcing they are cops, they immediately shoot the guy they were chasing, inside, kill him, but find no gun, nothing.

And get off scot free. But you don't think the cops are out of hand at all. OK, glad you're so informed.

 

[POP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeWSjGNuY_Q

We don't have any problems with abusive cops. Keep telling yourself that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2X...outube.com/watch?v=_2XMn-7WM1U&has_verified=1

 

[Steeltime]

We need panels to review all sketchy cases, who are not paid by the police dept. and have no "buddies" on the force. Make the panel's decisions valid and enforceable. The members should be formed from the citizens who live in the area.

Put the power back to the people.

First, several cities have such panels already in existence - Portland, San Francisco, St. Paul, Rochester, Minneapolis, Berkley, all of Orange County, California.

Second, the legitimate concerns about such "citizen panels" is that they have literally no experience in prosecuting crimes, or evaluating police policy and procedures.

Would you recommend having untrained "citizens," with no background, knowledge, or experience on the subject, run NFL replay reviews? For crying out loud, the NFL is a freaking game, so if anything, having untrained, inexperienced "citizens" run replay should encounter less resistance than having "citizen panels" review police excessive-force issues.

But can you imagine the outcry if 5 untrained, inexperienced "citizens" were deigned to run NFL replay?

Third, I don't reject your proposal offhand. Fourth, I understand the valid concern that police investigate police excessive force matters.

However, your proclivity to paint this matter with such final pronouncements - "cops are murdering citizens and getting away with it, and don't argue with me" - is off-putting and wrong.

I pointed out how you were wrong on the video of the shooting of the homeless guy in Los Angeles. I provided specific facts showing that the "victim" was a violent felon who had pistol-whipped a guy during a bank robbery, and who had waved a knife at citizens, and who had reached for the cop's gun, and where the video included specific remarks by cops, "He has my gun" and "drop the gun" before the guy was shot. You just ignored those facts and called the police "murderers."

Try and approach the issue with a modicum of balance and intelligence, instead of your tendency to rage.

 

[POP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlGQ4MSvflE

Now the poor white cops are filing suits because they are being picked on. The cops shot 130 times, filling each guy with 20 rounds each, and they were unarmed.

But the cops are the victims. Unreal.

 

[Steeltime]

And get off scot free. But you don't think the cops are out of hand at all. OK, glad you're so informed.

As opposed to your wealth of judicial and policing experience, you mean?

Have you gone to law school? Graduated law school? Passed a bar exam? Practiced law? Prosecuted a criminal case? Defended a criminal case? Attended a police academy? Graduated a police academy? Worked as a police officer? Been trained in use of force? Put that training to the test?

I wager no to all of the above.

 

[POP]

"cops are murdering citizens and getting away with it, and don't argue with me" - is off-putting and wrong.

That is what is "off-putting and wrong?" Not the fact that cops are murdering unarmed people all the time. No, that's not what is wrong, it is the way I post that is so wrong. Cops murdering and beating people when it's not needed? Oh, no, that is just fine. Nothing wrong with that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9Fk_Tduj58

Do you want to explain that to Kelly Thomas' dad? I bet you think cops did nothing wrong in beating this man to death, who was doing nothing wrong. He was mentally ill, and they beat him to death for no reason. Go ahead and defend that ****.

 

[Buster]

I find it hard to believe that every Seahawks player is willing to participate in this.

 

[POP]

As opposed to your wealth of judicial and policing experience, you mean?

Have you gone to law school? Graduated law school? Passed a bar exam? Practiced law? Prosecuted a criminal case? Defended a criminal case? Attended a police academy? Graduated a police academy? Worked as a police officer? Been trained in use of force? Put that training to the test?

I wager no to all of the above.

You really lack the ability to offer critical thinking. Why the **** does anyone need to have been through any of the above to not realize when they are seeing murders taking place?

Only a ******* moron wouldn't know what they are looking at. Trying to claim you need "training" to know what you are watching, something as obvious as murder, is imbecilic at best.

Go ahead and defend the Kelly Thomas murder. No go look at his dad, eye to eye, and tell them we don't know it was murder unless we went to law school. What a sick ****.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9Fk_Tduj58

 

[Steeltime]

That is what is "off-putting and wrong?" Not the fact that cops are murdering unarmed people all the time. No, that's not what is wrong, it is the way I post that is so wrong. Cops murdering and beating people when it's not needed? Oh, no, that is just fine. Nothing wrong with that.

What you are doing is called "begging the question." Look it up.

Do you want to explain that to Kelly Thomas' dad? I bet you think cops did nothing wrong in beating this man to death, who was doing nothing wrong. He was mentally ill, and they beat him to death for no reason. Go ahead and defend that ****.

Orange County - where that occurred - has a citizen's panel. Bet you did not know that ... too enraged at the plethora of murderous cops, roaming house-to-house and slaughtering innocent civilians to look at the facts.

Second, the officers involved in the Thomas death were tried and acquitted. A jury looked at the evidence, followed the judge's instructions, and rendered a verdict.

What you are too ignorant and bull-headed to acknowledge is that proving malice in police excessive-force cases is very, very difficult. You and I have no goddam business pulling a gun on a citizen; the police are trained and paid to do just that. You and I have no business beating somebody until he stops fighting; the police are trained and paid to do just that. Proving malice requires more than you think, where you are reaching conclusions with very little evidence and zero context.

This issues are not easy and only a moron would think otherwise.

 

[Steeltime]

You really lack the ability to offer critical thinking. Why the **** does anyone need to have been through any of the above to not realize when they are seeing murders taking place?

Your ignorance does not constitute a basis for bloviating to all concerned that "x" is murder. How would you know - you have no training, background, experience, knowledge or education on any relevant field? Seriously, you are a 5-year old wandering into a college physics class and arguing with the teacher.

Only a ******* moron wouldn't know what they are looking at. Trying to claim you need "training" to know what you are watching, something as obvious as murder, is imbecilic at best.

I know, right? What a waste of time and money - just have POOP look at a video and render his decision.

Based on his considerable knowledge, training, experience, education, background and training.

Or not.

Go ahead and defend the Kelly Thomas murder. No go look at his dad, eye to eye, and tell them we don't know it was murder unless we went to law school. What a sick ****.

Idiot, the case went to trial AND THE OFFICERS WERE FOUND NOT GUILTY.

Don't let the facts get in your way.

Fuckknob.

 

[POP]

Orange County - where that occurred - has a citizen's panel. Bet you did not know that ... too enraged at the plethora of murderous cops, roaming house-to-house and slaughtering innocent civilians to look at the facts.

Well, then it's obviously a **** panel. How these cops can walk without being locked up proves that whatever is in place is corrupt and ****.

Second, the officers involved in the Thomas death were tried and acquitted. A jury looked at the evidence, followed the judge's instructions, and rendered a verdict.

Then obviously, the system is broken. Anyone with working eyes and ears can see this was murder. The fact you try to deny it makes you look like a total jackass.

What you are too ignorant and bull-headed to acknowledge is that proving malice in police excessive-force cases is very, very difficult. You and I have no goddam business pulling a gun on a citizen; the police are trained and paid to do just that. You and I have no business beating somebody until he stops fighting; the police are trained and paid to do just that. Proving malice requires more than you think, where you are reaching conclusions with very little evidence and zero context.

Yea, and I can't tell if water is wet, if the sun is bright and fire is hot unless I am trained, right? You are an embarrassment to all Americans. How any reasonable person can watch that tape and not realize the cops murdered Thomas is beyond comprehension. And Rodney King wasn't abused either, right? You are a clown. The guy wasn't even doing anything wrong. He wasn't not armed, he posed no threat, and yet look how badly they beat his head in.