Vegas

[Badcat]

A very bad decision indeed.

I'd like to know how many in this thread have been to the Mandalay Bay and to this spot? This was deceptively long distance shooting. See the aerial view. If you've not been to Las Vegas and walked the strip, it's hard to fathom. You can see everything, but everything is deceptively further away than it appears. See the front doors. Right where the words are Las Vegas Strip is the corner and the entrance to the hotel. To get from that corner, through the hotel and to the convention center on the backside behind the pool visible in the picture can take nearly 15 minutes of walking.

You can use Google Maps and measure distance from that tower to the center of the crowd in front of the stage. It's actually 414 yards on a straight line, but you have to factor in being 32 floors up which increases the distance.

He had the advantage of spraying fire into a wide open target zone. Didn't need to worry about accuracy, he had 22,000 people inside a fenced in area like cattle. Just let it spray. Now to return fire? Look at this.

In the image above, you can see the officers hunkered down beyond the stage behind a wall. And you can guestimate where the 32nd floor is from there. This distance is 500 yards from that police car to the Mandalay on a straight line. Measure it in Google Maps.

Someone explain to me how taking an M-16 out of the trunk and trying to shoot at the 32nd floor from there is smart? Unlike the killer who could just spray fire, return fire would need to be targeted as to avoid other casualties. Not happening with an M-16. If you had snipers, I'd see the point. It would have been grossly negligent to shoot from a spot like this towards the Mandalay with anything but a sniper rifle.

Spot on! Even a highly trained Sniper would be hesitant shooting from the ground to the 32nd floor. The wind speed has to be incredible at that floor level, increasing as you climb. I would be interested in hearing a sniper's estimation on how he would even dope that? I may PM Steve Reichert and see if he would give me an answer.

 

[Superman]

Spot on! Even a highly trained Sniper would be hesitant shooting from the ground to the 32nd floor. The wind speed has to be incredible at that floor level, increasing as you climb. I would be interested in hearing a sniper's estimation on how he would even dope that? I may PM Steve Reichert and see if he would give me an answer.

the ****? just ask elfie. ze has it all worked out.

 

[Elfiero]

A very bad decision indeed.

I'd like to know how many in this thread have been to the Mandalay Bay and to this spot? This was deceptively long distance shooting. See the aerial view. If you've not been to Las Vegas and walked the strip, it's hard to fathom. You can see everything, but everything is deceptively further away than it appears. See the front doors. Right where the words are Las Vegas Strip is the corner and the entrance to the hotel. To get from that corner, through the hotel and to the convention center on the backside behind the pool visible in the picture can take nearly 15 minutes of walking.

You can use Google Maps and measure distance from that tower to the center of the crowd in front of the stage. It's actually 414 yards on a straight line, but you have to factor in being 32 floors up which increases the distance.

He had the advantage of spraying fire into a wide open target zone. Didn't need to worry about accuracy, he had 22,000 people inside a fenced in area like cattle. Just let it spray. Now to return fire? Look at this.

In the image above, you can see the officers hunkered down beyond the stage behind a wall. And you can guestimate where the 32nd floor is from there. This distance is 500 yards from that police car to the Mandalay on a straight line. Measure it in Google Maps.

Someone explain to me how taking an M-16 out of the trunk and trying to shoot at the 32nd floor from there is smart? Unlike the killer who could just spray fire, return fire would need to be targeted as to avoid other casualties. Not happening with an M-16. If you had snipers, I'd see the point. It would have been grossly negligent to shoot from a spot like this towards the Mandalay with anything but a sniper rifle.

I guess cops are like chess pieces to Tiny Tim. They can't be at the intersection in front of festival. They can't be anywhere but at Tiny Tim's little square.........lol

 

[Elfiero]

Spot on! Even a highly trained Sniper would be hesitant shooting from the ground to the 32nd floor. The wind speed has to be incredible at that floor level, increasing as you climb. I would be interested in hearing a sniper's estimation on how he would even dope that? I may PM Steve Reichert and see if he would give me an answer.

Not in the desert in October dumb ***. Oh excuse me ; racist dumb ***/ mass shooter cadet.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I guess cops are like chess pieces to Tiny Tim. They can't be at the intersection in front of festival. They can't be anywhere but at Tiny Tim's little square.........lol

It's amazing how wrong on this situation you are, but yet you persist...as you always do when wrong. Pathetic actually.

Cops were all around the place, absolutely. I don't care if they were in the intersection, which is what this view is from. No sensible LEO is using an M16 to shoot up to the 32nd floor of an always nearly full hotel from this location.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.093...211.08815&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Not in the desert in October dumb ***. Oh excuse me ; racist dumb ***/ mass shooter cadet.

You've clearly not been in Las Vegas at all or much.

I don't know what the wind conditions were that night. On October 2nd, Vegas winds were 18.3MPH. The average wind speed for October was 8.1MPH. This week wind is forecasted to be as high as 18MPH again.

Rule of thumb: if you’re shooting 180-grain .30/06 bullets at 2,700 fps, and the wind is coming at 10 mph from a right angle, allow 1 inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200, 6 inches at 300, and 12 inches at 400. If the wind is coming from 45 degrees instead of 90, you halve these allowances. If it’s blowing 20 mph, you double them.

Point: Wind is a factor. From the photo I showed originally, they would have had to adjust more than a foot if the winds were 18MPH depending on the angle of the wind.

Now consider the grain. This rule of thumb is for a 180 grain bullet. The M16A now uses a 62 grain bullet as standard, if my sources are correct. That's 1/3 the weight of the .30/06 bullets mentioned above, which means they'd suffer even MORE variance from the wind.

Yep. Shooting an M16 towards the hotel, even with 5MPH winds...colossally stupid

 

[Elfiero]

Spot on! Even a highly trained Sniper would be hesitant shooting from the ground to the 32nd floor. The wind speed has to be incredible at that floor level, increasing as you climb. I would be interested in hearing a sniper's estimation on how he would even dope that? I may PM Steve Reichert and see if he would give me an answer.

I'll save you some time dumbass. I just spoke to my brother who was In Germany during Vietnam (oldest brother was killed in the central highlands in 66)
He told me an average marksman can hit a man sized target at 600 yards with iron sights and clear line of sight easily.

He also said that is with the version they used back then, says new barrels and ammo are much better. There is no excuse for not being able to put rounds through the hole that prick knocked in the windows.

Having said all that I could still be completely wrong. It's just an idea.

 

[Elfiero]

You've clearly not been in Las Vegas at all or much.

I don't know what the wind conditions were that night. On October 2nd, Vegas winds were 18.3MPH. The average wind speed for October was 8.1MPH. This week wind is forecasted to be as high as 18MPH again.

Rule of thumb: if you’re shooting 180-grain .30/06 bullets at 2,700 fps, and the wind is coming at 10 mph from a right angle, allow 1 inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200, 6 inches at 300, and 12 inches at 400. If the wind is coming from 45 degrees instead of 90, you halve these allowances. If it’s blowing 20 mph, you double them.

Point: Wind is a factor. From the photo I showed originally, they would have had to adjust more than a foot if the winds were 18MPH depending on the angle of the wind.

Now consider the grain. This rule of thumb is for a 180 grain bullet. The M16A now uses a 62 grain bullet as standard, if my sources are correct. That's 1/3 the weight of the .30/06 bullets mentioned above, which means they'd suffer even MORE variance from the wind.

Yep. Shooting an M16 towards the hotel, even with 5MPH winds...colossally stupid

I'll take your word for it I am not an expert on small arms. Like I said it's just an idea.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I'll save you some time dumbass. I just spoke to my brother who was In Germany during Vietnam (oldest brother was killed in the central highlands in 66)
He told me an average marksman can hit a man sized target at 600 yards with iron sights and clear line of sight easily.

He also said that is with the version they used back then, says new barrels and ammo are much better. There is no excuse for not being able to put rounds through the hole that prick knocked in the windows.

Having said all that I could still be completely wrong. It's just an idea.

Except in this case you're shooting 32 floors up, assuming you can tell which window the shots are coming from, and at night, and you have to allow for shooting uphill and not just for wind, so unless there happened to be a Navy Seal marksman there with a night vision scope, there probably isn't anyone else who can make that shot.

 

[Steelr4evr]

Not in the desert in October dumb ***. Oh excuse me ; racist dumb ***/ mass shooter.

You're a nasty little **** **** aren't you? Did your mom and dad not give you enough love or something? You have major ******* issues. Get some help. Your cheese is off the cracker.

 

[Sarge]

I'll save you some time dumbass. I just spoke to my brother who was In Germany during Vietnam (oldest brother was killed in the central highlands in 66)
He told me an average marksman can hit a man sized target at 600 yards with iron sights and clear line of sight easily.

He also said that is with the version they used back then, says new barrels and ammo are much better. There is no excuse for not being able to put rounds through the hole that prick knocked in the windows.

Having said all that I could still be completely wrong. It's just an idea.

With an M-16? Without looking, I am pretty sure the max effective range is 550 at a point target, 800 at an area target. With the iron sight the military uses, I can hit 400 meter target maybe 6-10. I know how hard that is to see and sight up. I can't imagine 600 meters being "easy." Even more so with an iron sight. That said, if you shoot for a living, perhaps it is easy. But I know the average soldier ain't hitting **** at 600 meters without optics. I don't know what type of training the average beat cop gets, but I would have my doubts about the training being good enough to shoot at a target 32 stories high in the dark. The weapon is certainly capable. Not sure about the shooter.

 

[thesteelcity]

I'll save you some time dumbass. I just spoke to my brother who was In Germany during Vietnam (oldest brother was killed in the central highlands in 66)
He told me an average marksman can hit a man sized target at 600 yards with iron sights and clear line of sight easily.

He also said that is with the version they used back then, says new barrels and ammo are much better. There is no excuse for not being able to put rounds through the hole that prick knocked in the windows.

Having said all that I could still be completely wrong. It's just an idea.

you do realize that prick was shooting for 10 minutes and then nothing. From the outside standpoint, he would have been no longer visible after those 10 minutes of gunfire. They had 10 minutes to have sharp-shooters in place and/or gather their M-16s to take him out. Not to mention, as previously mentioned, shooting upward, with wind and in the dark, to the 32nd floor and still determining where the shots came from in that brief time frame. If he was firing shots for 15, 20, 30+ minutes then MAYBE your idea could work, but it's far fetched. I'm just trying to be logical and coming from LE standpoint. It took over 1/2 hour for SWAT to form a plan to get in his room. I can't see them using their precious time to shoot at his room from the ground and putting innocent people in even more danger.

 

[Elfiero]

Not in the desert in October dumb ***. Oh excuse me ; racist dumb ***/ mass shooter.

You're a nasty little **** **** aren't you? Did your mom and dad not give you enough love or something? You have major ******* issues. Get some help. Your cheese is off the cracker.

If you knew what Badcat had said in the past you would be directing those comments at him.

 

[Elfiero]

you do realize that prick was shooting for 10 minutes and then nothing. From the outside standpoint, he would have been no longer visible after those 10 minutes of gunfire. They had 10 minutes to have sharp-shooters in place and/or gather their M-16s to take him out. Not to mention, as previously mentioned, shooting upward, with wind and in the dark, to the 32nd floor and still determining where the shots came from in that brief time frame. If he was firing shots for 15, 20, 30+ minutes then MAYBE your idea could work, but it's far fetched. I'm just trying to be logical and coming from LE standpoint. It took over 1/2 hour for SWAT to form a plan to get in his room. I can't see them using their precious time to shoot at his room from the ground and putting innocent people in even more danger.

It was just an idea someone took from one post I made. Like I said it could be echo as well. I think it's been confirmed there was no second shooter, of course for the conspiracy people that statement will be part of the conspiracy.

 

[thesteelcity]

It was just an idea someone took from one post I made. Like I said it could be echo as well. I think it's been confirmed there was no second shooter, of course for the conspiracy people that statement will be part of the conspiracy.

it doesn't appear there was a second shooter, but we have 50% of the info they are allowing us to be privy to. You or I are in no position to make a conclusion to what, why and how it all happened. We are on a msg board talking about it. I've never been to Vegas, so I'm going on what I've been reading and videos from that night.

 

[Elfiero]

With an M-16? Without looking, I am pretty sure the max effective range is 550 at a point target, 800 at an area target. With the iron sight the military uses, I can hit 400 meter target maybe 6-10. I know how hard that is to see and sight up. I can't imagine 600 meters being "easy." Even more so with an iron sight. That said, if you shoot for a living, perhaps it is easy. But I know the average soldier ain't hitting **** at 600 meters without optics. I don't know what type of training the average beat cop gets, but I would have my doubts about the training being good enough to shoot at a target 32 stories high in the dark. The weapon is certainly capable. Not sure about the shooter.

Point taken.

 

[Badcat]

You've clearly not been in Las Vegas at all or much.

I don't know what the wind conditions were that night. On October 2nd, Vegas winds were 18.3MPH. The average wind speed for October was 8.1MPH. This week wind is forecasted to be as high as 18MPH again.

Rule of thumb: if you’re shooting 180-grain .30/06 bullets at 2,700 fps, and the wind is coming at 10 mph from a right angle, allow 1 inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200, 6 inches at 300, and 12 inches at 400. If the wind is coming from 45 degrees instead of 90, you halve these allowances. If it’s blowing 20 mph, you double them.

Point: Wind is a factor. From the photo I showed originally, they would have had to adjust more than a foot if the winds were 18MPH depending on the angle of the wind.

Now consider the grain. This rule of thumb is for a 180 grain bullet. The M16A now uses a 62 grain bullet as standard, if my sources are correct. That's 1/3 the weight of the .30/06 bullets mentioned above, which means they'd suffer even MORE variance from the wind.

Yep. Shooting an M16 towards the hotel, even with 5MPH winds...colossally stupid

...and you have to factor in the rotation of the round as well.

But I'm sure if master marsksman Elfie who works for the DoD, shoots guns we can only dream of ever shooting, and has a brother who was in Germany during Vietnam says to spray the ******* hotel with an M-16 then what the hell were trained professionals waiting for? Elfie master marksman says spray, spray away!!

 

[hamster]

I'll save you some time dumbass. I just spoke to my brother who was In Germany during Vietnam (oldest brother was killed in the central highlands in 66)
He told me an average marksman can hit a man sized target at 600 yards with iron sights and clear line of sight easily.

He also said that is with the version they used back then, says new barrels and ammo are much better. There is no excuse for not being able to put rounds through the hole that prick knocked in the windows.

Having said all that I could still be completely wrong. It's just an idea.

What unit was your brother with in Vietnam?

 

[Elfiero]

What unit was your brother with in Vietnam?

He wasn't in a unit. He was assigned to the 1st cav. but he wasn't in the Army. He was working with the Degar.

 

[Booted]

..., I didn't use any real information when I registered as Elfiero, .....

False info. Check.

... He told me something you would only tell a woman or a gay person, I am neither.

False info. Check.

 

[hamster]

He wasn't in a unit. He was assigned to the 1st cav. but he wasn't in the Army. He was working with the Degar.

Wtf is Degar?

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[tapeANaspirin2it]

I have a feeling this guy THOUGHT there would be a second shooter and he was part of a bigger plan, then he realized he was set up as a patsy.

 

[Sarge]

Wtf is Degar?

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They are indigenous people of the central highlands in Vietnam. Also referred to as Montagnards or "mountain people."

 

[Sarge]

As an aside, the Degars were on our side in the Vietnam War.

 

[hamster]

As an aside, the Degars were on our side in the Vietnam War.

I know who the Yards were, and I also know they were usually led by Special Forces personnel. Never heard them called Degars. Not being army, was Elfie's brother CIA?

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