We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[bermudasteel]

Goddamn you're stupid.

Hide behind your computer, little one. Hide behind it...

 

[Drink IRON City]

This record was broken in 2011 by the 95 yarder mike wallace had against arizona

OK, I meant at the time of his playing, but of coarse I didn't convey that very well. Sometimes my brain speaketh faster than my fingers can typeth. Hey Omar, does it rain much where you live? Here we get a lot of snow.



Salute the nation

 

[Vader]

When you came home w/ a "C" or, if you child does, how is it interpreted??? Failure or mediocre???

A "C" allows you to move to the next grade. An 8-8 season the past 2 years doesn't allow the Steelers to go to the playoffs. So they failed.

 

[bermudasteel]

First Black Coach. Sarcasm.

Thanks for explainin'...no hard feelings

 

[SteelBuckeye]

A "C" allows you to move to the next grade. An 8-8 season the past 2 years doesn't allow the Steelers to go to the playoffs. So they failed.

I get where you're coming from but the ultimate goal is winning the Super Bowl. In that respect, every team in the NFL except for the Seahawks failed last season. Some failed worse than others.

 

[bermudasteel]

you mean facts such as Tombert is a complete and total imbecile incapable of spotting a trend and addressing it? Or that Tombert is a clueless simpleton on the sidelines who only cares about how he looks while in his patented Ray-Bans?

One could gloss over all the silly facts and say all that is true, or one could invest a little more time and look at the true facts and stats that really do not lie.

I'm on record as saying that I'd let Tomlin go. Though, now, I'm not so sure.

In 2011, we were 12-4. Much hand-wringing was going on about Arians not developing Ben and pretty much "winging it" week in and week out. That was the same year that Tebow torched us in Denver. You know, our alleged #1 defense. That was the same year we lost Willie Colon, Chris Hoke and Aaron Smith to the IR. Add in that even Mewelde Moore missed the last three games with a knee.

So Arians was let go. To the elation of much of the Steeler fanbase. FINALLY we can get our best out of Ben and the offense!!!!!

2012
8-8, Tomlin's first non-winning season.

Offense finished 14th in passing
Offense finished 26th in rushing
Offense finished 22nd in scoring.
Defense dropped to 6th overall.

Of course, Aaron Smith retired, which was a big loss to our D, despite his lack of play time the previous season - since his backup, Hood, was overall ineffective. James Farrior also retired. We drafted DeCastro, Adams and Spence. Two of which were lost to the IR for all but one game that season, with DeCastro listed as "out" the first game (so, essentially two of three high draft picks were lost). Colon again found his way to IR. To compound that, Marcus Gilbert was also lost to IR for the last five games of the season and was "out" for three others previously. Ike Taylor also missed the last four games. So, yes, Injuries played a big toll on this team. Not an excuse, but those are facts.With DeCastro and Gilbert gimpy/out, our OL was a mess. Mendenhall was also not at 100% for the majority of the season, and even was suspended for one game.

Significant Retirements: Smith, Farrior
Draft: DeCastro, Adams, Spence
IR: DeCastro, Gilbert, Colon, Spence, Taylor

2013
8-8, again
Offense finished 12th in passing
Offense finished 27th in rushing
Offense finished 16th in scoring.
Defense dropped to 9th overall.

We started out 0-4, including a nice drubbing by the Vikings in London. Tomlin's seat was warming. Fans were jumping from bridges. Bandwidth was blistering. Thankfully, a bye in Week 4 allowed us to right the ship some as we went 8-4 the rest of the season. Despite losing to the Raiders, we were just a couple inches from making the playoffs (had Brown not stepped on the sideline vs the Dolphins). The team faced adversity, losing Pouncey in Game 1 and our rookie RB didnt make his debut due to injury as well. To address some OL deficiency, we traded for Levi Brown...who also promptly went on IR. Later in the season, still eyeing a glimmer of playoff hope, we bring in Fernando Velasco, who checked in to the IR ward for the last four games of the season.

Draft: Jarvis Jones, Bell, Wheaton
Free Agents/Players Lost/Released: Harrison, Foote, Wallace, Mendenhall, Lewis, Colon
IR: Levi Brown, Pouncey, Foote, Spence, Stephens-Howling, Velasco

Currently, our offense is 8th overall (5th passing, 10th rushing). The defense is the anchor, weighing in at 19th.

So you can throw all this at the feet of Tomlin. Right?!?!? Pitchforks! Trash on his lawn! Loot! Pillage! Rape the landside! He doesnt know what he's doing. He's laying waste to our franchise QB's prime years!! He's incapable of challenging plays!! I get it. I understand. Though look at the roster upheaval. Compounded by retirements and injuries. While absolutely no one thinks an 8-8 season is a successful one, we're also just outside of being in playoff contention. As 2005 showed, anyone can sneak in and win. Aside from that, in Tomlin's pretty successful on his challenges. He's made 49 challenges, having 26 overturned.

Now that I consider all of that, I'm not so sure that I'd want him gone. What I do expect is a large emphasis on defense in the next draft. The trend of our defense getting worse is obvious. That will have to be addressed further. Though, that is a role between Tomlin and Colbert.

Some how - I would rate the information above as factual...

A "C" allows you to move to the next grade. An 8-8 season the past 2 years doesn't allow the Steelers to go to the playoffs. So they failed.

You can't be serious?!? - A "C" is a mediocre grade, IMO (there will probably be many who agree and/or disagree) that, yes, it does allow one to pass the test/class. The key is they "pass". Your comparison, however, implies that a team does not pass unless the season results in a playoff appearance. I'm I correct with that assessment?

 

[SteelBuckeye]

If a 6 or 7 win team from the NFC South makes the playoffs, does that mean they "pass" and had a better season than an 8-8 team or a 9-7 team that fails to make the playoffs?

 

[Vader]

You can't be serious?!? - A "C" is a mediocre grade, IMO (there will probably be many who agree and/or disagree) that, yes, it does allow one to pass the test/class. The key is they "pass". Your comparison, however, implies that a team does not pass unless the season results in a playoff appearance. I'm I correct with that assessment?

You're the one who brought up the school grading system. Which has nothing to do with the NFL. I just pointed out that 8-8= no playoffs while a "C" letter grade allows you to pass from one grade to another. I don't agree at all that you can correlate a "C" with an 8-8 record. But that's what you did.

Ask any coach what their goals are for the year. Their first goal is to win their division and get into the playoffs. How can anything less than their 1st goal be successful? I don't care about grades. Ask Tomlin what his first goal was for this year and it isn't 8-8.

 

[Vader]

If a 6 or 7 win team from the NFC South makes the playoffs, does that mean they "pass" and had a better season than an 8-8 team or a 9-7 team that fails to make the playoffs?

I didn't shoehorn the grading system into the conversation. I don't think it applies at all. Teams can't help what division they are in. Would you consider a 6 win Steeler playoff team a success?

 

[Omar10213245]

OK, I meant at the time of his playing, but of coarse I didn't convey that very well. Sometimes my brain speaketh faster than my fingers can typeth. Hey Omar, does it rain much where you live? Here we get a lot of snow.



Salute the nation

haha the only reason I remember that, is because I remember watching a steelers podcast the Monday after that game, and they mentioned that Mark Malone factoid and how the record now belongs to Wallace, and it stuck in my ol' gray matter.

It rains here, most definitely; snows quite a bit, too (SW Ohio)

 

[Superman]

I didn't shoehorn the grading system into the conversation. I don't think it applies at all. Teams can't help what division they are in. Would you consider a 6 win Steeler playoff team a success?

since your logic above suggests making the playoffs equates to success, then we would have to use your logic in answering your question.
therefore, yes, that would be successful.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I didn't shoehorn the grading system into the conversation. I don't think it applies at all. Teams can't help what division they are in. Would you consider a 6 win Steeler playoff team a success?

Nope. I wouldn't consider 6 wins a success whether the playoffs were made or not. As a fan, I'd be embarrassed by making the playoffs with only 6 wins. I sure wouldn't expect a deep run. On the other hand, if I'm a fan of that 9-7 team, I'm also not satisfied as the team didn't make the playoffs. However, I've probably got more hope for the future than the fan of the 6 win playoff team. Heck, 6 wins and they don't even get the prime draft spot that should come with that level of futility.

 

[Vader]

since your logic above suggests making the playoffs equates to success, then we would have to use your logic in answering your question.
therefore, yes, that would be successful.

Like usual you cherry pick my thoughts. Would you consider a 6 win playoff team successful? Or do you consider an 8-8 season with no playoff successful?

 

[Steeltime]

When you came home w/ a "C" or, if you child does, how is it interpreted??? Failure or mediocre???

If you study very hard, and are a very intelligent person, and have a fundamental understanding of the subject matter, and a very good teacher, a "C" is a failure.

Tomlin has had a HOF defensive coordinator, a franchise QB, elite talent at WR, a HOF safety, stellar running backs, and went 8-8 two years in a row with those assets. I think he is not a very good coach, based on his team's inability to put forth reasonable effort and performance against some of the worst teams in the NFL. His losses to the Raiders x 3, Browns a couple of years ago, Buccaneers, Kansas City, and on and on cost the Steelers playoff spots and playoff seeding.

He is responsible for the trend of poor play and poor effort against inferior opponents. He is the man in charge. The buck stops with him.

If one wants to say, "He didn't fumble" or "He didn't throw the interception," then okay, fine. It's all about the players.

In that case, why not fire his ***? It doesn't matter, right?

 

[Superman]

Like usual you cherry pick my thoughts. Would you consider a 6 win playoff team successful? Or do you consider an 8-8 season with no playoff successful?

I'd be elated to make the playoffs if I were a fan of the 6-win team.
I'd not equate 8-8 with a successful season, no. I've stated that already.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

If you study very hard, and are a very intelligent person, and have a fundamental understanding of the subject matter, and a very good teacher, a "C" is a failure.

Tomlin has had a HOF defensive coordinator, a franchise QB, elite talent at WR, a HOF safety, stellar running backs, and went 8-8 two years in a row with those assets. I think he is not a very good coach, based on his team's inability to put forth reasonable effort and performance against some of the worst teams in the NFL. His losses to the Raiders x 3, Browns a couple of years ago, Buccaneers, Kansas City, and on and on cost the Steelers playoff spots and playoff seeding.

He is responsible for the trend of poor play and poor effort against inferior opponents. He is the man in charge. The buck stops with him.

If one wants to say, "He didn't fumble" or "He didn't throw the interception," then okay, fine. It's all about the players.

In that case, why not fire his ***? It doesn't matter, right?

To be fair:

1. Over the last 3 years (even prior to being Tebowed) many have called for the retirement of that HOF defensive coordinator. stating things such as "the game has passed him by"
2. He's had more than just a franchise QB; he's had a HOF caliber QB
3. During the two 8-8 years, only AB can be called an "elite talent at WR". When he was here, Sanders didn't produce at the level he's now producing at in Denver.
4. Troy is definitely a HOF safety, but I don't think anyone can honestly say that the Troy that's been on the field for the last 3 years has been playing at a HOF level.
5. "Stellar running backs"? You must have forgotten that Mendenhall played like crap after returning from the knee injury and that the backups were Dwyer and Redman. Last year Bell was hurt early, started flashing towards the middle of the season and the backups were Dwyer, Redman and Felix Jones. Not exactly a "Stellar" group.

Tomlin bears a good portion of the blame for the pissy showing against poor teams. You also can not, as you seem to want to, blithely discount the players' parts in these performances. Tomlin bears responsibility for preparation and game planning and things like traveling to London on the Friday before a Sunday game. However, I keep seeing him blamed for the players "not being up" or "poor effort". I don't get it. Team preparation, practice, game planning those are some of the things that fall on the HC and his coaching staff. "Effort" and "being UP for the game"? These are professionals, not high school players. They as individuals are responsible for their own effort, individual preparation and motivation. If they need a coach "rah rahing" them to victory, we might as well get 'em some cheerleaders on the sideline.

 

[Idioteque]

I really need to pray for you...

You did NOT mention "race" you "implied it" by utilizing ebonics. Clear enough. Just stop.

I cannot "stay involved" in the discussions because I actually try to perform my duties at work...

I used ebonics? YOU used the phrase! All I did was point out how goddamned stupid it is.

Yes, I know, you see alllllll of the racial implications of my posts. But get this: white idiots, black idiots, Hispanic idiots, and Eskimo idiots use the phrase "Haters gonna hate" - repeating the phrase says nothing about any race in particular. Nothing. Zero. Your race-baiting is pathetic; either you truly read racial overtones in everything you see, or you're trying desperately to steer away from a stupid argument. Given your history, I'm sure it's a mixture of the two.

Pray for me, do a dance, whatever works for ya. But stop telling me I'm racist. I've posted here for many years and have never once denigrated any race whatsoever.

Race-baiting. LOL.

 

[Idioteque]

When you came home w/ a "C" or, if you child does, how is it interpreted??? Failure or mediocre???

Mediocre... and I wouldn't hold it up as proof that my child is an elite student.

 

[Vader]

I'd be elated to make the playoffs if I were a fan of the 6-win team.
I'd not equate 8-8 with a successful season, no. I've stated that already.

That isn't what I asked. I asked if you considered a 6 win playoff team successful.

 

[Steeltime]

To be fair:

1. Over the last 3 years (even prior to being Tebowed) many have called for the retirement of that HOF defensive coordinator. stating things such as "the game has passed him by"

3. During the two 8-8 years, only AB can be called an "elite talent at WR". When he was here, Sanders didn't produce at the level he's now producing at in Denver.

4. Troy is definitely a HOF safety, but I don't think anyone can honestly say that the Troy that's been on the field for the last 3 years has been playing at a HOF level.

5. "Stellar running backs"? You must have forgotten that Mendenhall played like crap after returning from the knee injury and that the backups were Dwyer and Redman. Last year Bell was hurt early, started flashing towards the middle of the season and the backups were Dwyer, Redman and Felix Jones. Not exactly a "Stellar" group.

However, I keep seeing him blamed for the players "not being up" or "poor effort". I don't get it. Team preparation, practice, game planning those are some of the things that fall on the HC and his coaching staff. "Effort" and "being UP for the game"? These are professionals, not high school players. They as individuals are responsible for their own effort, individual preparation and motivation. If they need a coach "rah rahing" them to victory, we might as well get 'em some cheerleaders on the sideline.

1. Lebeau did not become less of a coach from 2008 to now. His talent level declined, and Tomlin bears considerable responsibility for that fact. He drafted players that really don't fit - Hood, Timmons - and basically ignored the NT position. He drafted CB's quite late.

3. The fact that Sanders was an elite talent who did not realize his potential until immediately after leaving the Steelers does not detract from his skill level.

4. Troy played well in 2012. He was playing pretty well in 2014 before being hurt. Blaming Troy for the decline in the defense is not a legitimate approach, IMO.

5. Tomlin also had Willie Parker and ran him into the ground, and had Bell for most of last year. He has had better RB's than the majority of NFL teams during his tenure. 2 thin seasons and 6 with outstanding talent at the position, as far as I am concerned.

Finally, one off game against a crappy opponent can be blamed on the players. Maybe 2. Possibly 3.

But 12 times?? That is a pattern that reflects on the head coach.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Finally, one off game against a crappy opponent can be blamed on the players. Maybe 2. Possibly 3.

But 12 times?? That is a pattern that reflects on the head coach.

In the 70's Chuck Noll was something like 58-1 against teams with a losing record.

 

[Superman]

That isn't what I asked. I asked if you considered a 6 win playoff team successful.

they made the playoffs, which is every team's goal. so they had a shot at the Super Bowl. now, are you going to change the parameters of the question to specify how many games they played? if they had a strike-shortened season? or maybe they had a 6-game season. things of this nature are paramount in my answering so as to not "cherry pick" your mindset upon asking such a question.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

This ain't college ball where a sub -500 record can get you a bowl game. Well, unless you're in the NFC South.

 

[Vader]

they made the playoffs, which is every team's goal. so they had a shot at the Super Bowl. now, are you going to change the parameters of the question to specify how many games they played? if they had a strike-shortened season? or maybe they had a 6-game season. things of this nature are paramount in my answering so as to not "cherry pick" your mindset upon asking such a question.

Nobody said anything about strike shortened seasons. Now your just spinning. SteelBuckeye talked specifically about the NFC South division this year and I quoted him. Did you not see that? Of course you did and you know exactly what we're talking about. Of course you still didn't answer the question. Is it a successful season?

 

[Superman]

Nobody said anything about strike shortened seasons. Now your just spinning. SteelBuckeye talked specifically about the NFC South division this year and I quoted him. Did you not see that? Of course you did and you know exactly what we're talking about. Of course you still didn't answer the question. Is it a successful season?

ah. ok. now we're getting somewhere.
so we're critiquing the NFC South.

As a Steelers fan, no, I would never consider a 6-win season a success. Glaring flaws are obvious in these teams. Yet, they make the playoffs, which is what you want as a fan and player. Even you would have to admit that's a difficult stance to take. If you consider it a failure, then what happens if they pull it together and win the Super Bowl? if you consider it a success, what if they're bounced in the first round? Many ways to look at it....without spinning.