We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[CharlesDavenport]

See, I like this. I may not agree with all the finer points and implications, but it is a well thought out and articulated statement of Del's opinions. Some of which I do agree with.

Me too, but you could have gone back 75 pages and gotten the CliffsNotes - Tomlin sucks.

 

[awboatguy]

1001st reply! Yeah. Tomlin sucks! He really really sucks!

Go Steelers!

 

[deljzc]

Yes, the Tebow game was certainly the beginning of the end. He was the first (and only, as far as I know) quarterback since the merger to throw three separate 50-yard passes in a single playoff game.

Your statistics basically outline what I've been saying: There is talent on offense (yardage numbers are great, but redzone problems persist), but the defense has gone downhill. What concerns me is the sheer loss of defensive depth to replace the players who have retired, and the guys getting injured this year are either not that good to begin with (Jarvis), or shells of their former selves (Ike and Troy). The cupboard is pretty much bare on defense. Let's take a look at what "Tombert," as you like to say, has done in the draft with defensive players:

2007: Timmons, Woodley, Ryan McBean, Gay
2008: Bruce Davis, Mike Humpal, Mundy
2009: Hood, Keenan Lewis, Joe Burnett, RaShon Harris
2010: Worilds, Thad Gibson, Crez Butler, Stevenson Sylvester, Doug Worthington
2011: Heyward, Curtis Brown, Cortez Allen, Chris Carter
2012: Spence, Alameda Ta'amu, Terrence Frederick
2013: Jarvis, Shamarko, Terry Hawthorne, Vince Williams, Nick Williams
2014: Shazier, Tuitt, Shaquille Richardson, Jordan Zumwalt, McCullers

Who on this list is really worth a damn? Timmons is good, not great. Woodley had a couple of splash years, and is essentially done. Gay has been a barely-serviceable player his whole career. Mundy is average at best. You described Hood yourself as ineffective. Keenan Lewis is the best player they drafted, IMO, and yet they let him walk without an offer. Worilds is average at very best. Heyward is good, not great.

I'll give the last draft a pass until further determination, but EVERYBODY else on that list has never amounted to anything. Do I consider Tomlin responsible for these poor choices? Yes. Shouldn't I? He was a defensive back coach and a defensive coordinator, but look again at the DBs there. A lot of them are mid-round picks, but besides Lewis, THEY ALL STINK. What free agents have replaced guys like Aaron Smith and Farrior? NOBODY. They sign guys like Cam Thomas and Arthur Moats now.

Who else do you think deserves to be held accountable for these eight years of ****** drafts and worthless free agent signings?

Antonio Brown is the best player they've drafted. And it's really not even close.

 

[ark steel]

Antonio Brown is the best player they've drafted. And it's really not even close.

That was my first reaction, but I think he meant Defensive player.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

I'll take Tomlin over Jay Gruden. What a toolbag.

 

[Wingman]

I'll take Tomlin over Jay Gruden. What a toolbag.

Hell I'd take Joe Biden over Jay Gruden.

 

[topseed]

If you know any one of these mythical people, maybe you can have them explain that there are not just two options.

Plenty of people here are in the middle about Tomlin. You just don't happen to be one of them.

Please, show me all the negatives you've posted about the guy. There should be a bunch available, right? Since you're so objective and all?

 

[topseed]

I love the IGNORE feature...Peace and hair grease!!!

I think it's a "piss pour" feature, myself. It lets little cowards run away from the arguments they're losing.

 

[topseed]

Antonio Brown is the best player they've drafted. And it's really not even close.

Of course Brown is the best player they've drafted. I'd put Bell in the "pretty close" category, as well.

Thought it was pretty clear that I was referring to defensive players. Even ark steel was able to figure that out...without any response to the subject matter, of course.

 

[Idioteque]

Plenty of people here are in the middle about Tomlin. You just don't happen to be one of them.

Please, show me all the negatives you've posted about the guy. There should be a bunch available, right? Since you're so objective and all?

Like many here, I think Tomlin is maybe a good coach, maybe.

I also agree with them that Marcus Gilbert and Cortez Allen have all the promise in the world and just need to put it all together.

It's a marathon, not a sprint.

A penny saved is a penny earned.

 

[Idioteque]

I think it's a "piss pour" feature, myself. It lets little cowards run away from the arguments they're losing.

LOL. Now how is his "son" going to "laugh at me daily"?

 

[obxsteeler]

It is not as black or white as moron vs. genius.

That's the problem some here seem to want to argue, just like this country seems to argue about everything. Black or white. Good or bad. Success or failure.

The truth is Tomlin's not stupid and no one is really saying he is (at least not seriously).

But the NFL is a fine line business. There are thousands of decisions (some more important that other, but still all factors to some degree) that go into winning an losing football games and even more over the course of a season and even more that affect the course of eight seasons.

It is my opinion Tomlin is not "above the line". That doesn't mean he is stupid of completely moronic or a complete failure or utterly over his head. That means he has not made enough proper decisions to keep this team "above the line" and continue to uphold the standards and talent of what I think he was given. Is he alone in every decision? Is every decision effecting the team his and his alone? Of course not. Colbert bares a lot of the responsibility (to the point I've wanted him fired way before Tomlin). Art Rooney bares responsibility. The coaching staff bares responsibility. And yes, even the players bare responsibility.

But just because a person is PART of a group decision or outcome doesn't give him a free pass to not be evaluated on his work. You can't hind behind the group when it fails to reach expectations. Is it all Tomlin's fault? Of course not. But evaluation of his job performance can and should still be done.

It is my opinion, based on what I expect of a head coach's contributions to the success/failure (however you want to define it) of the franchise, that Tomlin's job performance is not very good. And certainly not good enough to doubt the idea the grass can and could be greener over the fence (with another coach). This decision has been based on ALL EIGHT YEARS of his tenure here. It is based on the TOTALITY of his contributions. Not one game. Not one decision. When a coach is as much a part of the success/failure of a team, there are many good decisions and many bad decisions. Every coach can't be right all the time. I have never expected that (nor has anyone else here).

But the truth is the team is underachieving and the head coach's decisions and contributions are a major part of that (not ALL).

We have gotten to a point where I can not be convinced WHY TO KEEP TOMLIN. For all the bickering and comparisons, I have yet to see an intelligent, compelling argument on why Tomlin is best for this team moving forward. What makes him superior to other coaches. Or why firing him would increase the likelihood we would stay the same or get worse. I just don't see it.

It's pretty clear no one could ever present a compelling argument to you. Least of all me because I've never met the man, watched his practices, or talked to his players/peers. All I have is record. Wikipeda-which I grant you is not the end all in sports- says there have been 470 NFL coaches. 94 have won 50 games. 26 of those have a 60 % or better W/L record. Cowher is one of them and so is Tomlin. That leads me to believe that if you're going to replace him and get something better you need to be damn careful. That's just my opinion but over a lot of years of watching football I feel I've seen more bad coaching changes than good ones and a lot of reasons to trust the Rooney's.

 

[Steelr4evr]

I think it's a "piss pour" feature, myself. It lets little cowards run away from the arguments they're losing.

Cowards?..hahaha. It's more like weeding out ********* who annoy you.I could give two ***** about arguing with someone on a internet message board.

 

[Idioteque]

It's pretty clear no one could ever present a compelling argument to you. Least of all me because I've never met the man, watched his practices, or talked to his players/peers. All I have is record. Wikipeda-which I grant you is not the end all in sports- says there have been 470 NFL coaches. 94 have won 50 games. 26 of those have a 60 % or better W/L record. Cowher is one of them and so is Tomlin. That leads me to believe that if you're going to replace him and get something better you need to be damn careful. That's just my opinion but over a lot of years of watching football I feel I've seen more bad coaching changes than good ones and a lot of reasons to trust the Rooney's.

But aren't those team records? Why do they tell The Story on Tomlin's coaching?

And if you do go by team wins/losses, why not examine when they won/lost those games? If a coach starts his career with back-to-back 14-2 seasons, then goes 7-9 for three straight years, has he done a good job? The raw numbers say so; he's 49-31, which is pretty strong. Do we ignore that his team has trended horribly? What if he starts the year 9-1, then goes 1-5 during that playoff push? Did he have a good season?

Check out the all-time coaching W-L numbers and you'll see it paints a ****** picture of coaching quality. Your line of reasoning means Mike Martz > Chuck Noll.

 

[obxsteeler]

But aren't those team records? Why do they tell The Story on Tomlin's coaching?

And if you do go by team wins/losses, why not examine when they won/lost those games? If a coach starts his career with back-to-back 14-2 seasons, then goes 7-9 for three straight years, has he done a good job? The raw numbers say so; he's 49-31, which is pretty strong. Do we ignore that his team has trended horribly? What if he starts the year 9-1, then goes 1-5 during that playoff push? Did he have a good season?

Check out the all-time coaching W-L numbers and you'll see it paints a ****** picture of coaching quality. Your line of reasoning means Mike Martz > Chuck Noll.

They are! But so many keep saying the coach is responsible for everything. Is that only when it's bad? My line of reasoning only says you don't find many people considered great coaches without great records. You'd have to show me the preponderance of coaches with great records who were "******".

 

[Superman]

Plenty of people here are in the middle about Tomlin. You just don't happen to be one of them.

Please, show me all the negatives you've posted about the guy. There should be a bunch available, right? Since you're so objective and all?

this is true. I'm inundated with the Tomlin love-fest each time I watch a game with ark. it's downright embarrassing the man-love he has for Tomlin.

oh, wait... that doesnt happen except here, on this board, where you either fully hate Tomlin and everything the man stands for OR you're a Tomlin-lover and he can do no wrong. There is NO middle-ground at all, whatsoever.

 

[Superman]

I think it's a "piss pour" feature, myself. It lets little cowards run away from the arguments they're losing.

that could be one way to look at it. it could also be seen as a way to avoid arguing with whiny piss-ant ******* who only want to whine and argue.

 

[Superman]

They are! But so many keep saying the coach is responsible for everything. Is that only when it's bad? My line of reasoning only says you don't find many people considered great coaches without great records. You'd have to show me the preponderance of coaches with great records who were "******".

well, that's just silly talk. Tomlin is easily replaceable to some here. eazzily.

 

[Idioteque]

They are! But so many keep saying the coach is responsible for everything. Is that only when it's bad?

Well of course not, which is why I pointed out that these are TEAM records. But just because "it isn't ALL Tomlin's fault" doesn't make him a good coach.

My line of reasoning only says you don't find many people considered great coaches without great records. You'd have to show me the preponderance of coaches with great records who were "******".

Mike Smith of the Falcons, universally regarded as an awful coach, is ahead of Noll, So is Jim Caldwell. Parcells, Stram, and Jimmy Johnson in win%. Barry Switzer is #24 all-time in win%, ahead of Walsh, Landry,Gibbs, and Cowher. Mike Martz is #25. Marvin Lewis and Jason Garrett are ahead of Weeb Ewbank.

 

[Idioteque]

well, that's just silly talk. Tomlin is easily replaceable to some here. eazzily.

I'd say anyone who (a) knows the difference between two scores and three scores and (b) can lead a defense that only falls 10-15 spots over a three-year span.

 

[BLITZ]

man I just try and stay away from tomlin threads. He is definitely not my favorite coach, but if he is so horrible at drafting and evaluating talent as everyone thinks, yet he keeps on winning , that would mean he is a fairly decent coach right? 7-4 with marginal talent would mean good coaching right?

 

[Superman]

man I just try and stay away from tomlin threads. He is definitely not my favorite coach, but if he is so horrible at drafting and evaluating talent as everyone thinks, yet he keeps on winning , that would mean he is a fairly decent coach right? 7-4 with marginal talent would mean good coaching right?

I pointed out Tomlin's stats a few pages back. I can only think the Tomlin Haters are ignoring that and sharpening their pitchforks.
because, Cowher.

 

[diver]

this is true. I'm inundated with the Tomlin love-fest each time I watch a game with ark. it's downright embarrassing the man-love he has for Tomlin.

oh, wait... that doesnt happen except here, on this board, where you either fully hate Tomlin and everything the man stands for OR you're a Tomlin-lover and he can do no wrong. There is NO middle-ground at all, whatsoever.

Because people don't want a middle ground. I blame that mostly on the Tomlin haters.

Before I go on, Tomlin has lost me, I will admit, in the sense that if they fired the guy, I wouldn't care. I am not actively advocating his firing, however.

However, how the **** do you argue with a guy who states, if a player fumbles, that it is all on Tomlin? Or so many of the player mistakes that end up "all on Tomlin." And I don't want to hear this **** that nobody ever said that.

I wonder if the difference is age or upbringing. I grew up in a time in which if you ****** up when you played, it was on you. My parents didn't come running to my defense when I screwed up and ***** out the coach, they told me it was incumbent on my to be better. All I can figure is some of these "it's all on Tomlin" guys must have never really been responsible when they ****** up. Mommy and Daddy wiped their little noses all the time.

 

[Omar10213245]

man I just try and stay away from tomlin threads. He is definitely not my favorite coach, but if he is so horrible at drafting and evaluating talent as everyone thinks, yet he keeps on winning , that would mean he is a fairly decent coach right? 7-4 with marginal talent would mean good coaching right?

I know you havent just started watching steeler football THIS season, so lets not play coy about his work these last few seasons. 7-4 would be fine and dandy if we had a 1st or 2nd place schedule to play, but of course, thats not the case. I dont want to hear **** about "any given Sunday", this team has lost too many bullshit games against garbage *** teams over the last 4-5 seasons for me to ignore it. We should be 9-2 right now

 

[BLITZ]

I know you havent just started watching steeler football THIS season, so lets not play coy about his work these last few seasons

I am not playing coy nor am I a tomlin lover. But it does have to be one or the other. either he is horrible at talent evaluation and a pretty decent coach, or maybe not so bad at drafting and a bad coach.

12-4 8-8 8-8 that is some good coaching for a team that hasn't drafted well in 7 years.