We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[Omar10213245]

I am not playing coy nor am I a tomlin lover. But it does have to be one or the other. either he is horrible at talent evaluation and a pretty decent coach, or maybe not so bad at drafting and a bad coach.

12-4 8-8 8-8 that is some good coaching for a team that hasn't drafted well in 7 years.

12-4, 8-8 and 8-8 are teams built and influenced by the former coach who were reaching the end of their road. For Godsakes, we still rely on guys from the previous regime to stay above water. Look, I give tomlin credit in the fact that he didnt **** around too much with what was working, and he was able to keep this team on the same sheet of music for another trophy, as well as another appearance in the big game. But beyond that, I cant really of anything positive to say about the guy

 

[BLITZ]

12-4, 8-8 and 8-8 are teams built and influenced by the former coach who were reaching the end of their road. For Godsakes, we still rely on guys from the previous regime to stay above water.

I don't get this argument either. keisel,troy,ike,ben,Harrison are alltime great steelers. why couldn't they be a part of the next coaches success? cowher didn't draft woodson,lake,Lloyd, dawson, foster etc but I am sure he benefitted from them . cowher relied on guys from the previous regime up until most of their retirements. or he let them go to other teams and play well.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Because people don't want a middle ground. I blame that mostly on the Tomlin haters.

Before I go on, Tomlin has lost me, I will admit, in the sense that if they fired the guy, I wouldn't care. I am not actively advocating his firing, however.

However, how the **** do you argue with a guy who states, if a player fumbles, that it is all on Tomlin? Or so many of the player mistakes that end up "all on Tomlin." And I don't want to hear this **** that nobody ever said that.

I wonder if the difference is age or upbringing. I grew up in a time in which if you ****** up when you played, it was on you. My parents didn't come running to my defense when I screwed up and ***** out the coach, they told me it was incumbent on my to be better. All I can figure is some of these "it's all on Tomlin" guys must have never really been responsible when they ****** up. Mommy and Daddy wiped their little noses all the time.

That's deep. Tomlin sucks.

 

[Superman]

I don't get this argument either. keisel,troy,ike,ben,Harrison are alltime great steelers. why couldn't they be a part of the next coaches success? cowher didn't draft woodson,lake,Lloyd, dawson, foster etc but I am sure he benefitted from them . cowher relied on guys from the previous regime up until most of their retirements. or he let them go to other teams and play well.

damn you for bringing facts into the conversation! we will have none of that!!!!!

 

[SteelBuckeye]

It's the nature of the NFL and the way the draft is set up that more often than not successful teams will have a down period following a period of sustained success. (notice I said "more often than not" Pats* nut huggers). Picking from the middle to the end of the draft each year for most of a decade will guarantee that you do not acquire the same level of talent as the teams picking in the top 10 for that same decade.

That said, the Steelers brain trust (Tomlin, Colbert, Art II and the scouts) have made some horrendous picks along the way, and that doesn't help. What's funny to me is that no one but Tomlin gets the blame for these picks. The reasoning as I understand it is that "Colbert all of the sudden didn't forget how to draft". Well, maybe he did. Maybe Colbert's draft success was a product of having the input of a well seasoned coach in Bill Cowher and when paired with a coach with less head coaching experience, he wasn't able to produce the same results. It is entirely possible also that Tomlin himself sucks at talent evaluation. That also means that the rest of the brain trust either sucks just as badly, or is spineless and doesn't have the balls to challenge him when he's making one of those horrible picks.

At this point, I wouldn't bat an eye if Tomlin were fired or quit. It would be interesting to see who they brought in, and if that person was held to the same standard as Tomlin. I mean he'd be coming into a situation with a HOF QB in his prime who has a top RB and WR at his disposal along with an up and coming star in Bryant. He would have to continue the rebuilding process on defense. But, if Tomlin is expected to produce 12-4 season with that defense, the new coach should to.

 

[Idioteque]

man I just try and stay away from tomlin threads. He is definitely not my favorite coach, but if he is so horrible at drafting and evaluating talent as everyone thinks, yet he keeps on winning , that would mean he is a fairly decent coach right? 7-4 with marginal talent would mean good coaching right?

Err what? We haven't won a playoff game since 2010. We're 23-20 over that span and are regularly beaten down by the dregs of the NFL.

 

[Wingman]

I am not playing coy nor am I a tomlin lover. But it does have to be one or the other. either he is horrible at talent evaluation and a pretty decent coach, or maybe not so bad at drafting and a bad coach.

12-4 8-8 8-8 that is some good coaching for a team that hasn't drafted well in 7 years.

There are more than two choices see Omar's post above it makes it very clear.

 

[Idioteque]

Because people don't want a middle ground. I blame that mostly on the Tomlin haters.

Before I go on, Tomlin has lost me, I will admit, in the sense that if they fired the guy, I wouldn't care. I am not actively advocating his firing, however.

However, how the **** do you argue with a guy who states, if a player fumbles, that it is all on Tomlin? Or so many of the player mistakes that end up "all on Tomlin." And I don't want to hear this **** that nobody ever said that.

Well, they're constant mistakes. We've been horrible in the turnover battle, and several other key phases of the game throughout Tomlin's whole tenure. Different players, different schemes... same mistakes.

I wonder if the difference is age or upbringing. I grew up in a time in which if you ****** up when you played, it was on you. My parents didn't come running to my defense when I screwed up and ***** out the coach, they told me it was incumbent on my to be better. All I can figure is some of these "it's all on Tomlin" guys must have never really been responsible when they ****** up. Mommy and Daddy wiped their little noses all the time.

That's a very cute piece of out-of-nowhere psychoanalysis, but I truly cannot recall one instance of anyone saying "That fumble was Tomlin's fault!" More along the lines of, "The fact that we **** up all the time and have for years and years is Tomlin's fault."

 

[Idioteque]

I don't get this argument either. keisel,troy,ike,ben,Harrison are alltime great steelers. why couldn't they be a part of the next coaches success? cowher didn't draft woodson,lake,Lloyd, dawson, foster etc but I am sure he benefitted from them . cowher relied on guys from the previous regime up until most of their retirements. or he let them go to other teams and play well.

Because they ARE the next coach's success. Without them, we'd have been a 6-10 team consistently under Tomlin.

 

[Idioteque]

It's the nature of the NFL and the way the draft is set up that more often than not successful teams will have a down period following a period of sustained success. (notice I said "more often than not" Pats* nut huggers). Picking from the middle to the end of the draft each year for most of a decade will guarantee that you do not acquire the same level of talent as the teams picking in the top 10 for that same decade.

That said, the Steelers brain trust (Tomlin, Colbert, Art II and the scouts) have made some horrendous picks along the way, and that doesn't help. What's funny to me is that no one but Tomlin gets the blame for these picks. The reasoning as I understand it is that "Colbert all of the sudden didn't forget how to draft". Well, maybe he did. Maybe Colbert's draft success was a product of having the input of a well seasoned coach in Bill Cowher and when paired with a coach with less head coaching experience, he wasn't able to produce the same results. It is entirely possible also that Tomlin himself sucks at talent evaluation. That also means that the rest of the brain trust either sucks just as badly, or is spineless and doesn't have the balls to challenge him when he's making one of those horrible picks.

I don't know where you got this from. Numerous posters have ripped Colbert to shreds over the last few years, even very recently. Even the Rooneys have gotten a good chunk of venom.

At this point, I wouldn't bat an eye if Tomlin were fired or quit. It would be interesting to see who they brought in, and if that person was held to the same standard as Tomlin.

Why do you wonder that? Noll and Cowher were both held to the fire by the fanbase during their lean years. Now Tomlin is, too. And I'm sure the next guy will be.

He would have to continue the rebuilding process on defense. But, if Tomlin is expected to produce 12-4 season with that defense, the new coach should to.

No. But defensive guru that he is and all, he's expected to help draft/develop a few usable and/or star players along the way. Our defensive drafting since, oh, 2007 or so has been god-awful.

 

[BLITZ]

Because they ARE the next coach's success. Without them, we'd have been a 6-10 team consistently under Tomlin.

sorry I disagree. they are a PART of the next coaches success. just like nolls guys where a part of cowhers success. I am not a tomlin fan, but you gotta give the guy a bit of credit. without brown and bell we might be a 6-10 team this year. I guess we will never know but since he has never been a 6-10 winning coach, probably cant say he would be.

 

[Idioteque]

sorry I disagree. they are a PART of the next coaches success. just like nolls guys where a part of cowhers success. I am not a tomlin fan, but you gotta give the guy a bit of credit.

Yes, but ask yourself honestly how our recent seasons would have ended up without Ben, Troy, & Co. Imagine Flacco or Kaepernick or Dalton under center. With a decent safety in place of the incomparable Troy. Any chance whatsoever we'd have played in those Super Bowls? Would we even have hit 8-8 the last two years with Tomlin's core in place?

without brown and bell we might be a 6-10 team this year. I guess we will never know but since he has never been a 6-10 winning coach, probably cant say he would be.

An awesome RB/WR combo isn't enough to serve as the core of your team. Besides, there are a lot of awesome RBs/WRs out there whose teams are crappy. The positions that best correlate to winning - QB, o-line, d-line, pass rush, secondary - are either major weaknesses or holdovers (Ben).

 

[Vader]

I don't get this argument either. keisel,troy,ike,ben,Harrison are alltime great steelers. why couldn't they be a part of the next coaches success? cowher didn't draft woodson,lake,Lloyd, dawson, foster etc but I am sure he benefitted from them . cowher relied on guys from the previous regime up until most of their retirements. or he let them go to other teams and play well.

Cowher benefited a very short time. He had only a handful of players from Noll after 3 years. Tomlin has Ben, Miller, Troy, Ike, Harrison and Keisel 8 YEARS after he took over. Cowher had to replace almost the entire team in 3 years. He was left with aged vets like Tunch and FAs that he couldn't afford like Nickerson who all left soon after Cowher took over. He was also left with a QB who was 2-6 the year before and was only in his 2nd year. Tomlin was left with a franchise QB 12 months removed from a SB in the prime of his career.

All coaches rely some of previous coaches. But almost no coach comes into a situation where they benefited from a previous coach the way Tomlin has.

 

[BLITZ]

Cowher benefited a very short time. He had only a handful of players from Noll after 3 years. Tomlin has Ben, Miller, Troy, Ike, Harrison and Keisel 8 YEARS after he took over. Cowher had to replace almost the entire team in 3 years. He was left with aged vets like Tunch and FAs that he couldn't afford like Nickerson who all left soon after Cowher took over. He was also left with a QB who was 2-6 the year before and was only in his 2nd year. Tomlin was left with a franchise QB 12 months removed from a SB in the prime of his career.

All coaches rely some of previous coaches. But almost no coach comes into a situation where they benefited from a previous coach the way Tomlin has.

If Cowher came back to the Steelers next year as head coach I would be ecstatic. But that being said... Cowher benifetting greatly from "nolls players" The great defenses that he put together all through the 90s where from those players. there is no 95 super bowl visit without those players.


Tomlin is not the best coach out there. but he is much better than what people on this board give him credit for. .

 

[BLITZ]

Yes, but ask yourself honestly how our recent seasons would have ended up without Ben, Troy, & Co. Imagine Flacco or Kaepernick or Dalton under center. With a decent safety in place of the incomparable Troy. Any chance whatsoever we'd have played in those Super Bowls? Would we even have hit 8-8 the last two years with Tomlin's core in place?

its been 8 years. tomlins core is in place. tomlins core has gone 8-8 the last few years. that's sucks for us. we are used to so much more. but as far as nfl standards go not to bad.

 

[Idioteque]

its been 8 years. tomlins core is in place. tomlins core has gone 8-8 the last few years. that's sucks for us. we are used to so much more. but as far as nfl standards go not to bad.

For a team with a HOF QB still in his prime.. the best DC ever, leading a defense that was perennially #1 just a couple short years ago.. 8-8 is way below the line. HOF QBs rarely go 8-8, especially nowadays.

I ask myself what records we would post without the many Cowher holdovers, and in my mind it's not good. I think if you swap Ben/Troy/Harrison for above-average players at their positions, we'd be a 6-10 team or worse every year. We haven't developed an o-line, a d-line, a pass rush, a LB corps, or a secondary.

 

[Wingman]

For a team with a HOF QB still in his prime.. the best DC ever, leading a defense that was perennially #1 just a couple short years ago.. 8-8 is way below the line. HOF QBs rarely go 8-8, especially nowadays.

I ask myself what records we would post without the many Cowher holdovers, and in my mind it's not good. I think if you swap Ben/Troy/Harrison for above-average players at their positions, we'd be a 6-10 team or worse every year. We haven't developed an o-line, a d-line, a pass rush, a LB corps, or a secondary.

Yeah, but other than that whats your point?

 

[Idioteque]

If Cowher came back to the Steelers next year as head coach I would be ecstatic. But that being said... Cowher benifetting greatly from "nolls players" The great defenses that he put together all through the 90s where from those players. there is no 95 super bowl visit without those players.


Tomlin is not the best coach out there. but he is much better than what people on this board give him credit for. .

May I ask what he does well? Not asking for the team's record, but some specific skills he brings to the table.

He's always had high-profile coordinators and position coaches, so he's not an Xs and Os guru. (I hope not, anyway, as our defense and specifically DBs have gotten awful under his watch.)

He's not some talent evaluation guru, as we've drafted poorly under him.

He's not a brilliant gameday coach, as his many comical flubs would attest to.

He's not some efficiency guru. He's not a special teams guy. He doesn't crack the whip on his coaching staff. So what does he do well?

 

[SCSteeler4life]

May I ask what he does well? Not asking for the team's record, but some specific skills he brings to the table.

He's always had high-profile coordinators and position coaches, so he's not an Xs and Os guru. (I hope not, anyway, as our defense and specifically DBs have gotten awful under his watch.)

He's not some talent evaluation guru, as we've drafted poorly under him.

He's not a brilliant gameday coach, as his many comical flubs would attest to.

He's not some efficiency guru. He's not a special teams guy. He doesn't crack the whip on his coaching staff. So what does he do well?

Every ******* thing else. Sorry that was to easy.

 

[deljzc]

It's pretty clear no one could ever present a compelling argument to you. Least of all me because I've never met the man, watched his practices, or talked to his players/peers. All I have is record. Wikipeda-which I grant you is not the end all in sports- says there have been 470 NFL coaches. 94 have won 50 games. 26 of those have a 60 % or better W/L record. Cowher is one of them and so is Tomlin. That leads me to believe that if you're going to replace him and get something better you need to be damn careful. That's just my opinion but over a lot of years of watching football I feel I've seen more bad coaching changes than good ones and a lot of reasons to trust the Rooney's.

How many times do I have to keep telling people that COMPARISONS DON'T MATTER.

No two situations are the same, so why do I care what 26 our of 94 coaches did and when? Half the coaches on that list played when there were only 12 games a year. What makes 50 wins so fantastic you decided THAT's the cutoff? What hogwash, irrelevant drivel.

Obviously, you are SO worried the Rooney's will screw up the next hiring choice to continue to give mediocre Mike 10 more years. That makes no sense. If you trust the Rooney's so much, you don't think they could improve the chances to find someone better than Tomlin? You are talking yourself in a circle.

You are just blindly justifying Tomlin's job performance. You keep saying "I don't know this and I don't know that". Okay. Then shut up and don't offer ANY OPINION. Not for or against. Because you have qualified yourself as not knowing. Period. You don't know and I don't want to hear you again state your support for the man.

If you don't think you have enough facts to have an opinion, then don't have an opinion. The self righteousness of having an opinion (which you do) then criticize those that don't have your opinion because they don't have enough information is insulting.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

How many times do I have to keep telling people that COMPARISONS DON'T MATTER.

No two situations are the same, so why do I care what 26 our of 94 coaches did and when? Half the coaches on that list played when there were only 12 games a year. What makes 50 wins so fantastic you decided THAT's the cutoff? What hogwash, irrelevant drivel.

Obviously, you are SO worried the Rooney's will screw up the next hiring choice to continue to give mediocre Mike 10 more years. That makes no sense. If you trust the Rooney's so much, you don't think they could improve the chances to find someone better than Tomlin? You are talking yourself in a circle.

You are just blindly justifying Tomlin's job performance. You keep saying "I don't know this and I don't know that". Okay. Then shut up and don't offer ANY OPINION. Not for or against. Because you have qualified yourself as not knowing. Period. You don't know and I don't want to hear you again state your support for the man.

If you don't think you have enough facts to have an opinion, then don't have an opinion. The self righteousness of having an opinion (which you do) then criticize those that don't have your opinion because they don't have enough information is insulting.

I think we need to be patient. If we would have fired Bill after 98-00 where we went 7-9,6-10 and 9-7 we may have not ever won number 5 in 2005. Now that most of Bill's players have cycled through you have to see what he can do with his guys. I don't want us to be like most NFL franchises that fire coaches every 2-3 years. If he doesn't show anything in the next 2 years then **** can him. That is just my opinion.

 

[Omar10213245]

How many times do I have to keep telling people that COMPARISONS DON'T MATTER.

No two situations are the same, so why do I care what 26 our of 94 coaches did and when? Half the coaches on that list played when there were only 12 games a year. What makes 50 wins so fantastic you decided THAT's the cutoff? What hogwash, irrelevant drivel.

Obviously, you are SO worried the Rooney's will screw up the next hiring choice to continue to give mediocre Mike 10 more years. That makes no sense. If you trust the Rooney's so much, you don't think they could improve the chances to find someone better than Tomlin? You are talking yourself in a circle.

You are just blindly justifying Tomlin's job performance. You keep saying "I don't know this and I don't know that". Okay. Then shut up and don't offer ANY OPINION. Not for or against. Because you have qualified yourself as not knowing. Period. You don't know and I don't want to hear you again state your support for the man.

If you don't think you have enough facts to have an opinion, then don't have an opinion. The self righteousness of having an opinion (which you do) then criticize those that don't have your opinion because they don't have enough information is insulting.

I was told to spread karma, but you sir, deserve it. Well said

 

[diver]

Well, they're constant mistakes. We've been horrible in the turnover battle, and several other key phases of the game throughout Tomlin's whole tenure. Different players, different schemes... same mistakes.



That's a very cute piece of out-of-nowhere psychoanalysis, but I truly cannot recall one instance of anyone saying "That fumble was Tomlin's fault!" More along the lines of, "The fact that we **** up all the time and have for years and years is Tomlin's fault."

Is it?

I don't know, man. I don't remember in the 70s blaming Noll when Bradshaw threw interceptions, and he threw a lot of them. Hell, I think for his career he only threw 2 more TDs than picks. Different game, but still. I guess I am trying to figure out the root of it. What is it, then? I've actually thought about it. Is it that back in the 70s, we understood that players play? Only when guys like Bill Walsh came around and anointed themselves geniuses as ******* football coaches did it start to change?

 

[deljzc]

I think we need to be patient. If we would have fired Bill after 98-00 where we went 7-9,6-10 and 9-7 we may have not ever won number 5 in 2005. Now that most of Bill's players have cycled through you have to see what he can do with his guys. I don't want us to be like most NFL franchises that fire coaches every 2-3 years. If he doesn't show anything in the next 2 years then **** can him. That is just my opinion.

This is another misconception that I HATE continues to get spewed by the pro-Tomlin supporters.

From 1997-2000 changes WERE MADE!!! Before 1998 Ray Sherman was hired as OC to replace Chan Gailey. Before 1999, Ray Sherman was FIRED and replaced with Kevin Gilbride. Before 2000, the GENERAL MANAGE was fired AND we had to replace defensive coordinator Jim Hasslett with Tim Lewis. Before 2001, Kevin Gilbride was FIRED and replaced with Mike Mularkey.

That's a hell of a lot of decision making by Cowher to try and right the ship! Maybe Cowher's head didn't roll, but god dam the GM's and a couple high level assistants did!

Again. STOP COMPARING. And second, if you do, get your facts straight. After and during Cowher's 3 losing seasons, TONS of changes were made. Significant changes to GM and a complete overhaul (taking a couple attempts) of offensive and defensive coordinators. At least Cowher recognized the seasons were below standard and tried to make some significant changes to fix it. Tomlin looks like he's on cruise control.

 

[BLITZ]

For a team with a HOF QB still in his prime.. the best DC ever, leading a defense that was perennially #1 just a couple short years ago.. 8-8 is way below the line. HOF QBs rarely go 8-8, especially nowadays.

I ask myself what records we would post without the many Cowher holdovers, and in my mind it's not good. I think if you swap Ben/Troy/Harrison for above-average players at their positions, we'd be a 6-10 team or worse every year. We haven't developed an o-line, a d-line, a pass rush, a LB corps, or a secondary.

it cants be both either he is the best dc ever or he is the dc responsible for 8-8 seasons
and he is also responsible for the tebow debacle. you guys blame tomlin for the losses but argue that the coord. are responsible for the wins.

as far as what he as done. he has failed at several draft picks and also personnel choices. but he has also gotten some right. in his second year we won a championship. 2 out of the 4 linebackers Woodley and Harrison where ot among cowhers starters and a 3rd linebacker Timmons played a lot in that game. my guess is without those 3 players we are not in the superbowl that year and we certainly do not win.