We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[BLITZ]

May I ask what he does well? Not asking for the team's record, but some specific skills he brings to the table.

He's always had high-profile coordinators and position coaches, so he's not an Xs and Os guru. (I hope not, anyway, as our defense and specifically DBs have gotten awful under his watch.)

He's not some talent evaluation guru, as we've drafted poorly under him.

He's not a brilliant gameday coach, as his many comical flubs would attest to.

He's not some efficiency guru. He's not a special teams guy. He doesn't crack the whip on his coaching staff. So what does he do well?

He is not good at a lot of things as you mentioned. you are correct. I would love it if cowher came back to coach the steelers. But my fear would be to replace Tomlin with another Tomlin. Everyone says he should be gone. who replaces him? " Fire Tomlin" is easy to say. tomlin sucks is easy to say. But the fact of the matter is, Tomlin really is not that bad compared to other coaches out there.

12-4 8-8 8-8 that is a dream for a lot of teams. and I get we are not a lot of teams, But it could be a lot worse.

 

[Idioteque]

it cants be both either he is the best dc ever or he is the dc responsible for 8-8 seasons and he is also responsible for the tebow debacle. you guys blame tomlin for the losses but argue that the coord. are responsible for the wins.

I don't blame Tomlin solely for losses. I blame him (and Colbert) for the current climate of the team in general.

Who's the boss of the coordinators? Who signs off on gameplans? You can't have it both ways either. Either Tomlin has steered the ship into mediocrity, or he's a coach-in-name-only who's not allowed to be involved with the gameplans.

as far as what he as done. he has failed at several draft picks and also personnel choices. but he has also gotten some right.

Some, sure. But seven drafts (not counting this season) is just too long of a span to only produce two All Pro-caliber players. Antonio and Bell were slam dunks. Wallace, Pouncey and Woodley were/are productive, yet inconsistent players and both got BADLY overpaid. Lewis developed into a stud and was cut loose in favor of Cortez. Timmons, DeCastro and Heyward talented but inconsistent. Beachum was a very good value pick. I just don't see how those successes were enough to offset the many, many failures. And it looks even worse on Tomlin considering that the previous coach - with the same GM - put together the best core in the league from 1998-06.

in his second year we won a championship. 2 out of the 4 linebackers Woodley and Harrison where ot among cowhers starters and a 3rd linebacker Timmons played a lot in that game. my guess is without those 3 players we are not in the superbowl that year and we certainly do not win.

To be fair, Harrison had started several games for Cowher. Tomlin came along, kept Harrison on the bench, and drafted Timmons to play ROLB. When that failed, he was forced to start Harrison.

 

[obxsteeler]

This is another misconception that I HATE continues to get spewed by the pro-Tomlin supporters.

From 1997-2000 changes WERE MADE!!! Before 1998 Ray Sherman was hired as OC to replace Chan Gailey. Before 1999, Ray Sherman was FIRED and replaced with Kevin Gilbride. Before 2000, the GENERAL MANAGE was fired AND we had to replace defensive coordinator Jim Hasslett with Tim Lewis. Before 2001, Kevin Gilbride was FIRED and replaced with Mike Mularkey.

That's a hell of a lot of decision making by Cowher to try and right the ship! Maybe Cowher's head didn't roll, but god dam the GM's and a couple high level assistants did!

Again. STOP COMPARING. And second, if you do, get your facts straight. After and during Cowher's 3 losing seasons, TONS of changes were made. Significant changes to GM and a complete overhaul (taking a couple attempts) of offensive and defensive coordinators. At least Cowher recognized the seasons were below standard and tried to make some significant changes to fix it. Tomlin looks like he's on cruise control.

Are you comparing Cowher and Tomlin?

 

[ark steel]

this is true. I'm inundated with the Tomlin love-fest each time I watch a game with ark. it's downright embarrassing the man-love he has for Tomlin.

You don't even want to know what happened to my Tombert bobble head doll.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

This is another misconception that I HATE continues to get spewed by the pro-Tomlin supporters.

From 1997-2000 changes WERE MADE!!! Before 1998 Ray Sherman was hired as OC to replace Chan Gailey. Before 1999, Ray Sherman was FIRED and replaced with Kevin Gilbride. Before 2000, the GENERAL MANAGE was fired AND we had to replace defensive coordinator Jim Hasslett with Tim Lewis. Before 2001, Kevin Gilbride was FIRED and replaced with Mike Mularkey.

That's a hell of a lot of decision making by Cowher to try and right the ship! Maybe Cowher's head didn't roll, but god dam the GM's and a couple high level assistants did!

Again. STOP COMPARING. And second, if you do, get your facts straight. After and during Cowher's 3 losing seasons, TONS of changes were made. Significant changes to GM and a complete overhaul (taking a couple attempts) of offensive and defensive coordinators. At least Cowher recognized the seasons were below standard and tried to make some significant changes to fix it. Tomlin looks like he's on cruise control.

Where did I once say changes weren't made. Until they sucked *** those 3 straight years, he had been to playoffs 5 straight years, lost 2 AFCG's and lost 1 SB. Then it still took 4 years to win the SB. By the way FU I will compare whenever I want to. Been a fan for over 40 years, we have had 3 coaches in those 40 years so I will compare them when I damn well please. Don't like it don't read it. So I will give our coach a few more years. Because I know the Rooneys will.

 

[BLITZ]

Some, sure. But seven drafts (not counting this season) is just too long of a span to only produce two All Pro-caliber players. Antonio and Bell were slam dunks. Wallace, Pouncey and Woodley were/are productive, yet inconsistent players and both got BADLY overpaid. Lewis developed into a stud and was cut loose in favor of Cortez. Timmons, DeCastro and Heyward talented but inconsistent. Beachum was a very good value pick. I just don't see how those successes were enough to offset the many, many failures. And it looks even worse on Tomlin considering that the previous coach - with the same GM - put together the best core in the league from 1998-06.



To be fair, Harrison had started several games for Cowher. Tomlin came along, kept Harrison on the bench, and drafted Timmons to play ROLB. When that failed, he was forced to start Harrison.[/QUOTE]

we could be here all day arguing draft picks from tomlins and cowhers time. both had good and bozo moments. Bottom line to me is for all the guys that say "fire tomlin" I say and replace with who?

 

[Idioteque]

we could be here all day arguing draft picks from tomlins and cowhers time. both had good and bozo moments. Bottom line to me is for all the guys that say "fire tomlin" I say and replace with who?

The winner of an exhaustive coaching search, I guess

 

[Idioteque]

So I will give our coach a few more years. Because I know the Rooneys will.

And their way is always the correct way, right?

 

[Omar10213245]

Where did I once say changes weren't made. Until they sucked *** those 3 straight years, he had been to playoffs 5 straight years, lost 2 AFCG's and lost 1 SB. Then it still took 4 years to win the SB. By the way FU I will compare whenever I want to. Been a fan for over 40 years, we have had 3 coaches in those 40 years so I will compare them when I damn well please. Don't like it don't read it. So I will give our coach a few more years. Because I know the Rooneys will.

*SCSteeler4life eagerly awaits his pat on the head from Dan Rooney*

 

[diver]

And their way is always the correct way, right?

Who's way is better?

If you say the Pats, for example, well hell, they have fashioned themselves after the Steelers as it pertains to stability. Well, they have Belechick, you will say, best coach there is. That is disingenuous. If Belechick was here and hadn't won a Super Bowl since 2004, while having perhaps the best QB of the modern era, there would be threads like this one about firing him. What kind of a coach would waste going on 11 years of a HOF QB and not win more championships?

Funny, I agree with some of your assertions, like what has Tomlin really done? And when you think about it, you are right. What impact has Tomlin had? Any on the defense? Not really, that's LeBeau's. Nothing on the offense. Special teams? It is hard to find. Maybe that he stayed out of the way early and allowed them to win the one they did in '08? But then you up and say something dumb about the Rooney way. Maybe it isn't perfect, but it is certainly the way to ensure more consistent success.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

And their way is always the correct way, right?

Nothing is always better. You can't speak in absolutes concerning the NFL. But I will take our teams history over anybody else. I just think your generation of fan is way to spoiled.

 

[stillwright]

I don't blame Tomlin solely for losses. I blame him (and Colbert) for the current climate of the team in general.

Who's the boss of the coordinators? Who signs off on gameplans? You can't have it both ways either. Either Tomlin has steered the ship into mediocrity, or he's a coach-in-name-only who's not allowed to be involved with the gameplans.



Some, sure. But seven drafts (not counting this season) is just too long of a span to only produce two All Pro-caliber players. Antonio and Bell were slam dunks. Wallace, Pouncey and Woodley were/are productive, yet inconsistent players and both got BADLY overpaid. Lewis developed into a stud and was cut loose in favor of Cortez. Timmons, DeCastro and Heyward talented but inconsistent. Beachum was a very good value pick. I just don't see how those successes were enough to offset the many, many failures. And it looks even worse on Tomlin considering that the previous coach - with the same GM - put together the best core in the league from 1998-06.



To be fair, Harrison had started several games for Cowher. Tomlin came along, kept Harrison on the bench, and drafted Timmons to play ROLB. When that failed, he was forced to start Harrison.

Ahhhh.....is that how it happened? If i remember correctly it was always Harrison's job....i could be wrong though. i memory isnt the best any more.

 

[Idioteque]

Who's way is better?

If you say the Pats, for example, well hell, they have fashioned themselves after the Steelers as it pertains to stability. Well, they have Belechick, you will say, best coach there is. That is disingenuous. If Belechick was here and hadn't won a Super Bowl since 2004, while having perhaps the best QB of the modern era, there would be threads like this one about firing him. What kind of a coach would waste going on 11 years of a HOF QB and not win more championships?

Funny, I agree with some of your assertions, like what has Tomlin really done? And when you think about it, you are right. What impact has Tomlin had? Any on the defense? Not really, that's LeBeau's. Nothing on the offense. Special teams? It is hard to find. Maybe that he stayed out of the way early and allowed them to win the one they did in '08? But then you up and say something dumb about the Rooney way. Maybe it isn't perfect, but it is certainly the way to ensure more consistent success.

I'm not talking about some mystical Rooney "way." I'm talking about the silly POV that the Rooney's ALWAYS make the right decisions, therefore Tomlin is the best coaching option. They hired him 7 years ago, so he's The Man For The Job until the Rooneys say otherwise.

 

[Idioteque]

Nothing is always better. You can't speak in absolutes concerning the NFL. But I will take our teams history over anybody else. I just think your generation of fan is way to spoiled.

Yes, you've said that already. I think you're the type who is fine with mediocrity and assumes everything will work out because it did before, which is a silly way to look at things in any industry.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

Yes, you've said that already. I think you're the type who is fine with mediocrity and assumes everything will work out because it did before, which is a silly way to look at things in any industry.

That's funny no Steelers fan I know has ever accepted mediocrity. Guys your age just don't get it. You have some over inflated expectations that we are suppose to win every year, every game by 50 points. But us guys with some years on us know that isn't the case and never will be. So you keep bitching and whining about the Steelers and make yourself sick. And I will continue to support them and enjoys my years I have left being a fan of the greatest NFL franchise ever.

 

[Idioteque]

Shouldn't the goal be to, I don't know, work your way out of mediocrity? Or do you just accept that it's inevitable and revel in it?

I hate to interrupt the NFL Films music playing in the background of your post, but I don't feel spoiled at all. I just think that improvement should be the goal always, not just rolling with crappiness out of sentimentality. And that's my philosophy going far beyond Steeler football.

I'll add this to the list of "you're not a REAL fan because you don't REALLY support the team" posts that get cranked out here daily. I can assure you, I'm a fan. And I support the team just as well as you do.

I expect us to win every game by 50? No, I just expect us to beat the ******* Jets and Raiders, to slow down Zach Mettenberger to less-than-HOF status, and to draft an All-Pro here and there.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

Shouldn't the goal be to, I don't know, work your way out of mediocrity? Or do you just accept that it's inevitable and revel in it?

I hate to interrupt the NFL Films music playing in the background of your post, but I don't feel spoiled at all. I just think that improvement should be the goal always, not just rolling with crappiness out of sentimentality. And that's my philosophy going far beyond Steeler football.

I'll add this to the list of "you're not a REAL fan because you don't REALLY support the team" posts that get cranked out here daily. I can assure you, I'm a fan. And I support the team just as well as you do.

I expect us to win every game by 50? No, I just expect us to beat the ******* Jets and Raiders, to slow down Zach Mettenberger to less-than-HOF status, and to draft an All-Pro here and there.

You will at least get some of that this year. Bell and Brown are All-Pros. You are spoiled, and you can thank the Rooney's for that.

 

[Vader]

If Cowher came back to the Steelers next year as head coach I would be ecstatic. But that being said... Cowher benifetting greatly from "nolls players" The great defenses that he put together all through the 90s where from those players. there is no 95 super bowl visit without those players.


Tomlin is not the best coach out there. but he is much better than what people on this board give him credit for. .

First off Cowher took over a team that hadn't won **** in a decade. Yea, they were so great Noll couldn't even make the playoffs with them. Second, almost every pro-bowl player from Noll didn't make the pro-bowl WITH Noll coaching.

The fact is there is NO comparison between the two. Cowher took over a team that hadn't won **** with no QB and an offense that ranked 17th in points and 20nd in yards. The defense with all those great players ranked 22nd in PPG and 22nd in YPG. Cowher's team had a lot of retiring players and FAs that he couldn't afford. Tomlin took over a team 12 months removed from a SB and won his SB with 10 of 11 players on defense from the previous coach. And on offense he had 8 of 11. His 3 players on offense were horrible players like Stapleton who was out of the league the next year and Hartwig who was out of the league the year after.

So again, comparing them is just ridiculous. Tomlin has had an easy ride for a HC. No worries about losing great players to FA, not having to find a franchise QB, no worries about the defense, no worries about the offense and no issues with the GM. For a HC in the NFL he has had it made.

 

[bermudasteel]

Mr. Goodell reinstated "Rock 'Em Sock 'Em" Ray Rice - went isn't there a 150 pages on this transgression?

 

[Omar10213245]

Mr. Goodell reinstated "Rock 'Em Sock 'Em" Ray Rice - went isn't there a 150 pages on this transgression?

Why dont you go ahead and get the first 149 pages rolling and we'll all catch up from there?

 

[Idioteque]

You will at least get some of that this year. Bell and Brown are All-Pros. You are spoiled, and you can thank the Rooney's for that.

Good rebuttal there. More "spoiled" ****.

 

[BLITZ]

First off Cowher took over a team that hadn't won **** in a decade. Yea, they were so great Noll couldn't even make the playoffs with them. Second, almost every pro-bowl player from Noll didn't make the pro-bowl WITH Noll coaching.

The fact is there is NO comparison between the two. Cowher took over a team that hadn't won **** with no QB and an offense that ranked 17th in points and 20nd in yards. The defense with all those great players ranked 22nd in PPG and 22nd in YPG. Cowher's team had a lot of retiring players and FAs that he couldn't afford. Tomlin took over a team 12 months removed from a SB and won his SB with 10 of 11 players on defense from the previous coach. And on offense he had 8 of 11. His 3 players on offense were horrible players like Stapleton who was out of the league the next year and Hartwig who was out of the league the year after.

So again, comparing them is just ridiculous. Tomlin has had an easy ride for a HC. No worries about losing great players to FA, not having to find a franchise QB, no worries about the defense, no worries about the offense and no issues with the GM. For a HC in the NFL he has had it made.[/QUOTE

again we can go on all day everyday regarding Cowher/Tomlin etc. If I felt it was worth anyones time I would argue that cowher didn't have to worry about a complete change in how a defense could play like Tomlin has had to. but what is the point? " Fire Tomin now" is much much easier to say thread in and thread out. who cares about who replaces him. "fire tomlin now" will make everything better

 

[Superman]

Ahhhh.....is that how it happened? If i remember correctly it was always Harrison's job....i could be wrong though. i memory isnt the best any more.

yes. you are correct. I cannot see that *******'s posts, but to jog everyone's memory...

James Harrison
2004 – NO stats
2005 – 45 combined tackles
2006 – 20 combined tackles
2007 – 98 combined tackles, 8.5 sacks

and since the disillusioned think that Timmons was handed the OLB job and only after failing miserably at it, was Harrison grudgingly placed into the role...

Lawrence Timmons
2007 – 13 combined tackles

For those who want to cry about Tomlin not doing anything, and Cowher's players are the bestest of the bester ever, that Tombert is merely babysitting a woulda-been dynasty and hasn't a clue how to coach...

Defensive Players of the Year under Tomlin
2008 – James Harrison – undrafted free agent, bounced around a few years. Played sparingly under Cowher.
2010 – Troy Polamalu – drafted by Cowher in 2003, and was only drafted - ONLY - after Dexter Jackson spurned us in Free Agency and went to Arizona.

Defensive Players of the Year under Cowher
1993 – Rod Woodson – drafted by Noll in 1987.

So either Noll didn't know how to coach up Woodson, or Cowher didn't know how to coach up Deebo and Troy.

I mean, Noll drafted Woodson, Hardy Nickerson, Greg Lloyd, Carnell Lake, Barry Foster, Merrill Hoge, Eric Green...
the modern-day logic that Tomlin needn't tinker much but only add a few pieces here and there can/could also have been said about Cowher...despite a **** record. I've been told by people on the street that if a coach turns around a roster that is "loaded" with players, but has a ****** record, then that is only indicative of either the previous regime if criticism is allowed, or only given to the current coach if criticism is tempered. There are quite a few instances of that in this very thread, if anyone would care to scroll back 9,000 pages.

and, still, for the record - I'm indecisive about Tomlin. I don't think he's baked **** on a sidewalk in June, but I also don't think he's the most cerebral coach there has ever been.

I mean, for ****'s sake, coaches like Mariucci, Seifert and Switzer owe a ****-ton of their overall coaching win/loss record to the talent they inherited. They also are directly responsible for the talent lost.

Speaking of losing talent - Keenan Lewis is often tossed around here. Has anyone taken time to consider that the majority of the Young Money Crew is gone? Maybe they were a distraction to the team, overall? Wallace is gone. Lewis is gone. Sanders is gone. Only Brown remains. Of those four, Brown is arguably the hardest worker and IMO, the one who puts team-first, despite his own personal records. When Lewis left, if memory serves correctly, while we all were somewhat worried about the future, we trusted that the coaches, and our own eyeballs, suggested Cortez Allen (albeit not from a high-caliber NCAA school) was on par with the talent Lewis demonstrated - and it was more frugal to let Lewis leave since we had pretty much the same guy in Allen. Now, we have some whiny ******* crying how we let Lewis leave and always "without a contract offer". Well, is it also possible that Lewis was either a ******* prick in the locker room (despite this not being made public), or that maybe Lewis told the staff he wanted to play closer to home - which is where he signed? Or maybe a combination of the two? Nah. the current coaching staff just hasn't a goddamn clue what they're doing, so they're winging it left and right.

Sounds. Legit.

 

[Idioteque]

Harrison started 8 games for Cowher, and Tomlin drafted Timmons to keep Harrison on the bench.

Oh whoopsie!

 

[Superman]

oh, forgot to add:
in 2004, Harrison got his first career start when Joey Porter was ejected for fighting with William Green before the game began. He also started three games at the end of the season when Clark Haggans was injured.
In 2005, Deebo started three games, and had one sack.
In 2006, he started the final game of the season.

In all, that is a whopping grand goddamn ******* total of:
2004 - 1 game started
2005 - 3 games started
2006 - 1 game started

not using Common Core math, that computes to 1+3+1 = 5 total regular season games started in three consecutive seasons.