We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[Idioteque]

Troy was already a bona fide superstar before Tomlin even arrived, let alone when he won DPOY.

Lewis stated himself that the Steelers NEVER offered him a deal at all. Oh, I forgot, he was let go because he was a prick in the locker room. LOL

Goddamn. I wonder how many more corrections I could make to that long-winded pussyfest if I actually read it.

 

[Idioteque]

8 starts, not 5. There were 4 starts in 2004, not one.

http://m.pfref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXHXXHarrJa23.htm&t=1

 

[Wingman]

8 starts, not 5. There were 4 starts in 2004, not one.

http://m.pfref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXHXXHarrJa23.htm&t=1

One other thing to keep in mind regarding Harrison. When he was early in his career he was having lots of trouble learning the defense. He was also behind Porter and Hagens who were playing rather well at linebacker. The issue with him having problems with the defense was from an interview with him that was done during the season. He ,Harrison, discussed how hard it was to learn the defense and how he had made flash cards and would spend all of his free time in training camp studying them till he finally got it down. In his case not starting indicates one, good players in front of him on the depth chart, and two he did not yet know the defense as well as a starter should. After lots of hard work he became the player that became a defensive player of the year.

 

[Superman]

well, idiot got it right for once.

one would think that if a bona fide goddamn stud at any position had made his case known even at the expense of proven, established players in front of him - that the coaching staff would have jettisoned that starter out and played the guy. I mean, Cowher did that. right? right? right? 8-9 starts is a guarantee that a guy is going to do exceedingly well.

16 tackles, 1 sack in 2004
16 tackles, 1 sack in 2005
4 tackles, 0 sacks in 2006

those were during his starts...when he was emphatically stating and demonstrating to all that had eyeballs that he was the best man on the field at all times.

yet Cowher didn't start him over Haggans, nor over Porter.
Tomlin is supposed to eye talent?

hypocritical wow

 

[Idioteque]

1. Those stats are, again, incredibly wrong:

2004 - 36 tackles, 1 sack
2005 - 36 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 INT
2006 - 14 tackles

Some of those tackles probably came on special teams, but good gawd. It's not hard to find player statistics on the interweb. Much better than making up yourself.

2. Cowher has nothing to do with Tomlin's coaching

3. Tomlin drafted Timmons to replace Porter and keep Harrison on the bench, so it's hard to give him credit for UNLEASHING ALL THAT IS JAMES HARRISON!!!!

 

[Idioteque]

One other thing to keep in mind regarding Harrison. When he was early in his career he was having lots of trouble learning the defense. He was also behind Porter and Hagens who were playing rather well at linebacker. The issue with him having problems with the defense was from an interview with him that was done during the season. He ,Harrison, discussed how hard it was to learn the defense and how he had made flash cards and would spend all of his free time in training camp studying them till he finally got it down. In his case not starting indicates one, good players in front of him on the depth chart, and two he did not yet know the defense as well as a starter should. After lots of hard work he became the player that became a defensive player of the year.

I remember his second career start, against Baltimore in late 2004. He LIVED in the backfield, just destroyed their RT and harassed Boller all game - but couldn't get to him to save his life. Seemed like every snap he was in Boller's face, but Boller got by him. It was thrilling and frustrating all at once, and we could see plain as day the talent he had.

While Cowher is irrelevant to a discussion of Mike Tomlin's coaching abilities, it's beyond laughable to knock the guy for NOT benching All-Pro Joey Porter for him.

 

[Superman]

but since tackles don't matter - per some here - he had 2 sacks in those starts spread out over three years of spotty starting.

 

[Idioteque]

but since tackles don't matter - per some here - he had 2 sacks in those starts spread out over three years of spotty starting.

Again - 4 sacks, not 2.

Damn!

Tackles matter, but don't paint the whole picture. Besides, I didn't bring them up.

 

[BLITZ]

I remember his second career start, against Baltimore in late 2004. He LIVED in the backfield, just destroyed their RT and harassed Boller all game - but couldn't get to him to save his life. Seemed like every snap he was in Boller's face, but Boller got by him. It was thrilling and frustrating all at once, and we could see plain as day the talent he had.

While Cowher is irrelevant to a discussion of Mike Tomlin's coaching abilities, it's beyond laughable to knock the guy for NOT benching All-Pro Joey Porter for him.

on a side note. in 2007 before porter was cut, I recall thinking haggans was going to be the odd man out. Harrison and Porter were to start. when Porter got cut I think everyone knew Harrison was going to start at rolb. Timmons was not drafted in 2007 to start in 2007.

 

[Superman]

on a side note. in 2007 before porter was cut, I recall thinking haggans was going to be the odd man out. Harrison and Porter were to start. when Porter got cut I think everyone knew Harrison was going to start at rolb. Timmons was not drafted in 2007 to start in 2007.

I believe he was drafted to start at olb, but like you said, probably not in 2007. I also believe that Deebo learned the defense over the summer of 06-07 well enough to give the coaches confidence in him starting so as to not rush Timmons into that role.

Then Deebo came on and the rest is history. To Timmons' credit he was able to move to ILB and not be the complete and total bust some want him to be.

 

[Idioteque]

on a side note. in 2007 before porter was cut, I recall thinking haggans was going to be the odd man out. Harrison and Porter were to start. when Porter got cut I think everyone knew Harrison was going to start at rolb. Timmons was not drafted in 2007 to start in 2007.

Probably so. What some folks can't and/or don't want to grasp is that he was drafted to play ROLB long-term, not Harrison. Woodley was taken to play LOLB long-term, not Harrison. So it's hard for me to credit Tomlin for seeing the dominance of Harrison and molding him into a superstar. Hard to believe Harrison was his protege considering Tomlin took OLBs in the first AND second rounds that year. Harrison was brought in way, way, way, way before Tomlin came along, and he ultimately started because Timmons couldn't play outside.

 

[BLITZ]

Probably so. What some folks can't and/or don't want to grasp is that he was drafted to play ROLB long-term, not Harrison. Woodley was taken to play LOLB long-term, not Harrison. So it's hard for me to credit Tomlin for seeing the dominance of Harrison and molding him into a superstar. Hard to believe Harrison was his protege considering Tomlin took OLBs in the first AND second rounds that year. Harrison was brought in way, way, way, way before Tomlin came along, and he ultimately started because Timmons couldn't play outside.

I could see it both ways. that year the 2 guys that we wanted were willis and revis. jets jumped up and took revis at 14 and we took Timmons. I could see us drafting him for the inside. but honestly we will never know.

 

[stillwright]

Probably so. What some folks can't and/or don't want to grasp is that he was drafted to play ROLB long-term, not Harrison. Woodley was taken to play LOLB long-term, not Harrison. So it's hard for me to credit Tomlin for seeing the dominance of Harrison and molding him into a superstar. Hard to believe Harrison was his protege considering Tomlin took OLBs in the first AND second rounds that year. Harrison was brought in way, way, way, way before Tomlin came along, and he ultimately started because Timmons couldn't play outside.

So you really think that Timmons was bought in to start from day one in this defense that takes 3 plus years to learn? Hmmm...Dicky must of really seen something in him then because we all know Tomlin doesnt know nothing.

 

[Idioteque]

I could see it both ways. that year the 2 guys that we wanted were willis and revis. jets jumped up and took revis at 14 and we took Timmons. I could see us drafting him for the inside. but honestly we will never know.

Tomlin stated numerous times after the draft that Timmons was drafted to play outside. Then he was immediately inserted at ROLB in camp.

So you really think that Timmons was bought in to start from day one in this defense that takes 3 plus years to learn? Hmmm...Dicky must of really seen something in him then because we all know Tomlin doesnt know nothing.

Re-read my post and the one it was responding to.

 

[BLITZ]

Tomlin stated numerous times after the draft that Timmons was drafted to play outside. Then he was immediately inserted at ROLB in camp.

I Believe you. I would guess he got into camp saw what he had with Harrison and all of that changed. But this is why I generally stay away from these threads. here we are debating 1st drafts when the thread is about " fire Tomlin now" My original point was he is not as bad as coach as we let on. I don't want him as a head coach I would like cowher back. But the reason I want cowher back is We know what we have with him. "fire Tomlin now" makes no sense, without a plan. Lets here a plan.

 

[Idioteque]

I Believe you. I would guess he got into camp saw what he had with Harrison and all of that changed. But this is why I generally stay away from these threads. here we are debating 1st drafts when the thread is about " fire Tomlin now" My original point was he is not as bad as coach as we let on. I don't want him as a head coach I would like cowher back. But the reason I want cowher back is We know what we have with him. "fire Tomlin now" makes no sense, without a plan. Lets here a plan.

Like I said, my plan would involve a coaching search. I'm confident there are better coaching options on this earth than Tomlin, so if I were running the team, I'd go looking for them.

 

[Wingman]

Like I said, my plan would involve a coaching search. I'm confident there are better coaching options on this earth than Tomlin, so if I were running the team, I'd go looking for them.

Oh no, not logic again. Next you will want to be examining their experience, looking at resumes, and heaven forbid, hiring the most qualified! eeeahgad what is this place coming to?

 

[stillwright]

Like I said, my plan would involve a coaching search. I'm confident there are better coaching options on this earth than Tomlin, so if I were running the team, I'd go looking for them.

The only problem with looking for a new coach is will they make the new coach hold on to a certain DC? How much say has Tomlin had on who he can hire and who he can't? This is one reason i personally wouldn't mind a change...but it would have to be a complete change across the board. While a lot want to blame just Tomlin(who should get blame) i will put blame also on DL...then even some on the Rooney's for doing there best Al Davis impersonality by getting to invovled in who Tomlin hires and doesn't hire.

 

[BLITZ]

Oh no, not logic again. Next you will want to be examining their experience, looking at resumes, and heaven forbid, hiring the most qualified! eeeahgad what is this place coming to?

at the very least better than "fire tomlin now"

 

[bermudasteel]

Because people don't want a middle ground. I blame that mostly on the Tomlin haters.

Before I go on, Tomlin has lost me, I will admit, in the sense that if they fired the guy, I wouldn't care. I am not actively advocating his firing, however.

However, how the **** do you argue with a guy who states, if a player fumbles, that it is all on Tomlin? Or so many of the player mistakes that end up "all on Tomlin." And I don't want to hear this **** that nobody ever said that.

I wonder if the difference is age or upbringing. I grew up in a time in which if you ****** up when you played, it was on you. My parents didn't come running to my defense when I screwed up and ***** out the coach, they told me it was incumbent on my to be better. All I can figure is some of these "it's all on Tomlin" guys must have never really been responsible when they ****** up. Mommy and Daddy wiped their little noses all the time.

Love it....plus the ignore feature too - thread is so clean now

 

[topseed]

Cowards?..hahaha. It's more like weeding out ********* who annoy you.I could give two ***** about arguing with someone on a internet message board.

Sure. Why have an engaging football-related argument, when you can hold hands and sing Kumbaya with all the same ******** who agree with you all the time?

Don't forget to "pray" for the guys you put on your ignore list.

 

[topseed]

this is true. I'm inundated with the Tomlin love-fest each time I watch a game with ark. it's downright embarrassing the man-love he has for Tomlin.

oh, wait... that doesnt happen except here, on this board, where you either fully hate Tomlin and everything the man stands for OR you're a Tomlin-lover and he can do no wrong. There is NO middle-ground at all, whatsoever.

I don't fully hate Tomlin and everything he stands for. He seems like a nice enough fellow; I just think he's a ****** NFL head coach. He was in way above his head at the time of his hire, and as we've moved further away from the time of his inheritance, the quality of play and depth of the Steelers (especially defensively) continues to wane.

There is most certainly middle ground on this board about Tomlin...in fact, I've seen it from you. I can't speak for anything that happens outside of this board; I simply asked for some objective examples from ark steel. He defends Tomlin all the time, so I'd like to see some evidence to the contrary.

 

[topseed]

I pointed out Tomlin's stats a few pages back. I can only think the Tomlin Haters are ignoring that and sharpening their pitchforks.
because, Cowher.

I didn't ignore your "stats" post. I replied in direct response to it right there on page 50. Maybe you were too busy defending ark steel's honor, and somehow missed it.

 

[Idioteque]

I didn't ignore your "stats" post. I replied in direct response to it right there on page 50. Maybe you were too busy defending ark steel's honor, and somehow missed it.

To some, "Tomlin's stats" consist of won-loss record. That's it. Seriously.

 

[topseed]

But my fear would be to replace Tomlin with another Tomlin.

Now that is a classic line.

Scary, indeed.