We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[obxsteeler]

Ladies,

3-4 player? 4-3 players?

Who cares? We have it all, the new 3-4/4-3 hybrids.

EoD.

I do think all of the front 7 on the 85 team were 4-3 players in college.

 

[Stryker]

Perhaps the reason why it's harder to draft 3-4 talent is the majority of the league now runs the 3-4, so we can't get our starting LBs (converted from DEs) in the 5-7th rounds anymore?

It was a lot easier to draft when we cornered the market on 3-4 talent evaluation.

 

[deljzc]

Hood did not have the "body" to play 3-4 DE.

If you think his body is what 3-4 defensive coordinators ask for when writing up their wish list, you are completely ignorant of the differences in the systems and what the players are asked to do.

Timmons had to change his body. He's gained weight and muscle, lost some of the weight again, became more of a fire hydrant shape as opposed to the "leaner" edge defender he was in college. The weight gain came a lot as part of "growing up" from age 21 to late 20's. The change in body shape was forced by his new position.

If Shazier wants to survive, he'll have to change his body shape too. Worilds has gained stockiness. Jarvis Jones is maxed out other than losing body fat and increasing functional strength, he's stuck with what he looks like.

Overall, we lack length a LOT in the front-7. Heyward and Tuitt are good, McLendon lacks length (but McCullers has it), I think Jones and Worilds aren't really long enough. I think Timmons and Shazier aren't big enough naturally or coming out of college.

Big changes from Cowher front-7 players to Tomlin front-7 players. There is NO DOUBT about this is you scout the college players they've been drafting.

 

[Superman]

So basically who are these 4-3 players we have continually taken. Hood and Timmons? Hood had the body to play in a 3-4. Just never was able to convert over to a 3-4 scheme. Its not like he was smallish like Aaron Donald and we tried to convert him. Hood had the body just didnt work out. Timmons has done just fine here. Am I missing anyone else?

are you kidding? use your eyeballs.

 

[Superman]

Perhaps the reason why it's harder to draft 3-4 talent is the majority of the league now runs the 3-4, so we can't get our starting LBs (converted from DEs) in the 5-7th rounds anymore?

It was a lot easier to draft when we cornered the market on 3-4 talent evaluation.

nah, i pointed that out before and it was viciously attacked.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Hood is 6-3 300

No he wasnt Aaron Smith. But Ray Seals was 6-3 300. Kimo 6-4 300 Brentson Buckner 6-2 310. It wasnt his body type that made him an issue it was his preferred style of play. Hood wanted to penetrate. I know what the differences in the two schemes are.

 

[21STEELERS21]

Actually I don't think our front 7 is the biggest problem with this defense. Our 3-4 worked very well when Ike was able to take the top receiver
on the opposing team and shut him down going one on one. Ike has aged past the ability to do that. Put two decent starting DB's on this team
with Gay as the 3rd and you'd see the #1 defense again.

Mitchell might even be a decent FS if he was matched up with decent CB's. Right now he is looking to cover CB mistakes than being a true FS.

 

[GMC]

OK, lets assume that is what and how it happens. I keep saddling my IT department head with COBOL (anyone still use that?) programmers when we don't use that anywhere. In addition, my other decisions are widely considered to be dubious. My IT department head who could get a job the very next day and is financially well off with or without a job, stays with me for eight years and does everything I say.

Why would you assume that his decision to stay is based soley on the head coach's actions? I'd assume "Coach Dad" has more loyalty to his players and the organization then to the head coach. I'm not saying he doesn't agree with coach T, but I don't think he would leave the Steelers just because he doesn't have enough draft input or agree with everything he is doing. Numerous time he's stated: "I'm not coaching anywhere but here". I'm not sure how much draft input he's ever had as a DC, but he seems to enjoy coaching the Steelers and getting the most out the players he's provided more than anything else. If I'm not hurting for money, I love my job, the organization that employs me and the employees in my charge why would I go elsewhere just because I don't get to sign off on all the new hires?

 

[Steelz]

So I'm confused, do we fire Tomlin now? Or wait? I don't know how much longer I can wait from pressing my fire Tomlin button here.

 

[Superman]

So I'm confused, do we fire Tomlin now? Or wait? I don't know how much longer I can wait from pressing my fire Tomlin button here.

well, we have janitors installing cobol on apples while driving tanks and eating pie(charts). that's about all that can be gleaned from this thread.

 

[ark steel]

Why would you assume that his decision to stay is based soley on the head coach's actions? I'd assume "Coach Dad" has more loyalty to his players and the organization then to the head coach. I'm not saying he doesn't agree with coach T, but I don't think he would leave the Steelers just because he doesn't have enough draft input or agree with everything he is doing. Numerous time he's stated: "I'm not coaching anywhere but here". I'm not sure how much draft input he's ever had as a DC, but he seems to enjoy coaching the Steelers and getting the most out the players he's provided more than anything else. If I'm not hurting for money, I love my job, the organization that employs me and the employees in my charge why would I go elsewhere just because I don't get to sign off on all the new hires?

Even if you know that the new hires are, specifically, suited for jobs that you do not employ? As still said, if he loves the organization so much and they seem intent on drafting 4-3 talent he can't use properly, isn't he holding back the organization that he loves so much?

I'm not saying you can't be right, just that it would make no sense to me.

 

[ark steel]

So I'm confused, do we fire Tomlin now? Or wait? I don't know how much longer I can wait from pressing my fire Tomlin button here.

That is always an acceptable opinion here.

 

[deljzc]

So I'm confused, do we fire Tomlin now? Or wait? I don't know how much longer I can wait from pressing my fire Tomlin button here.

I think most of the anti-Tomlin supporters just hope the Rooney's don't give him a contract extension after this season.

That would be a HUGE win for the fans skeptical of Tomlin's accomplishments to date and his ability to lead us over the next 5 seasons.

I am part of this crowd by the way.

 

[Steelerfan]

So I'm confused, do we fire Tomlin now? Or wait? I don't know how much longer I can wait from pressing my fire Tomlin button here.

You'll have to wait another 71 pages to find out. Patience, grasshopper.

 

[Litos]

I think most of the anti-Tomlin supporters just hope the Rooney's don't give him a contract extension after this season.

That would be a HUGE win for the fans skeptical of Tomlin's accomplishments to date and his ability to lead us over the next 5 seasons.

I am part of this crowd by the way.

I think only another Conference Finals appearance or better would give him an extension

 

[GMC]

Even if you know that the new hires are, specifically, suited for jobs that you do not employ? As still said, if he loves the organization so much and they seem intent on drafting 4-3 talent he can't use properly, isn't he holding back the organization that he loves so much?

I'm not saying you can't be right, just that it would make no sense to me.

I don't see where he's hurting the organization, I think he's doing pretty damn good with what's been provided to him. I don't give him credit or blame for drafting Cowher's or Tomlin's player. I don't believe a DC has anything more than a voice in the draft room. Maybe I'm wrong in this case, but your assistants/coordinators are normally advisors not decision makers when it comes to personnel. Is he to pack up and move everytime a head coach overrules him on a personnel decision? All of the players (and there haven't really been that many) may not have been a perfect fit for his system, but for the most part they did have talent. Talent you can work with. Some have worked out, others not so much.

If they are going to make a change so be it, I'm just tired of people trying to convince everyone that Lebeau suddenly can't coach anymore. If that's the case, half the league wouldn't be running a version of his defense.

 

[Superman]

I don't see where he's hurting the organization, I think he's doing pretty damn good with what's been provided to him. I don't give him credit or blame for drafting Cowher's or Tomlin's player. I don't believe a DC has anything more than a voice in the draft room. Maybe I'm wrong in this case, but your assistants/coordinators are normally advisors not decision makers when it comes to personnel. Is he to pack up and move everytime a head coach overrules him on a personnel decision? All of the players (and there haven't really been that many) may not have been a perfect fit for his system, but for the most part they did have talent. Talent you can work with. Some have worked out, others not so much.

If they are going to make a change so be it, I'm just tired of people trying to convince everyone that Lebeau suddenly can't coach anymore. If that's the case, half the league wouldn't be running a version of his defense.

that is what ark said, but vader religiously refutes.

 

[GMC]

that is what ark said, but vader religiously refutes.

Check. I guess the point I was trying to get across is drafting has been poor across the board lately. I don't know exactly who is to blame, but I'm pretty confident it's not Lebeau's fault. Just like it's not Haley's fault that 3/5 of the o-line is average to below average.

 

[ark steel]

I don't see where he's hurting the organization, I think he's doing pretty damn good with what's been provided to him. I don't give him credit or blame for drafting Cowher's or Tomlin's player. I don't believe a DC has anything more than a voice in the draft room. Maybe I'm wrong in this case, but your assistants/coordinators are normally advisors not decision makers when it comes to personnel. Is he to pack up and move everytime a head coach overrules him on a personnel decision? All of the players (and there haven't really been that many) may not have been a perfect fit for his system, but for the most part they did have talent. Talent you can work with. Some have worked out, others not so much.

If they are going to make a change so be it, I'm just tired of people trying to convince everyone that Lebeau suddenly can't coach anymore. If that's the case, half the league wouldn't be running a version of his defense.

I doubt anyone agrees 100% with their boss. However, what I have bolded is what I was getting at, essentially. If they asked his input (and I can't believe they don't) he must have said "OK" for most. If I were in the same position and I said "No" and was overruled every time? You are damn straight I would bail.

 

[insaniti]

So how about some positive things in the Tomlin thread? Remember when we started the year out leading the league in penalties? We have since dropped into a tie for 9th place with 95 total penalties. Seattle now leads the league with 115 penalties. There had to have been some adjustments made to make such a drastic improvement in that category.

 

[Wingman]

So how about some positive things in the Tomlin thread? Remember when we started the year out leading the league in penalties? We have since dropped into a tie for 9th place with 95 total penalties. Seattle now leads the league with 115 penalties. There had to have been some adjustments made to make such a drastic improvement in that category.

There have been some others based on a given game or in game decision just most of them only focus on the win loss record.

 

[Vader]

that is what ark said, but vader religiously refutes.

Oh bullshit. I get weary of you constantly butting your stupid *** into conversations without offering anything more than attacking certain posters. I made it clear as day that DL probably has input but he isn't responsible for drafting players. See "input" is different from "decision making". I know that's hard for you to grasp but perhaps a 2nd grade lesson in language would help your many issues. BTW here is EXACTLY what I said:

You can't explain that because you know good and well Tombert are the ones who do the drafting. DL may give some input but obviously he either forgot what type of defense he is coaching OR he doesn't have much input on the actual players but on the type of players he wants and Tombert puts their own spin on it.

Notice how I said he may not have much input OR he doesn't have much input on the actual players but on the type of players he wants. I never said he didn't have any input at all. But keep spouting your bullshit.

 

[Superman]

Pardon me for ruffling your fluffy panties and making you weary.

so, in your own words, DL tells Tombert that he wants "Big dude, solid, strong, smart, quick, athletic"

and Tombert ***** that up royally. each and every year.
i mean, that IS the definition of the "type of player" DL should want.

 

[Vader]

Pardon me for ruffling your fluffy panties and making you weary.

so, in your own words, DL tells Tombert that he wants "Big dude, solid, strong, smart, quick, athletic"

and Tombert ***** that up royally. each and every year.
i mean, that IS the definition of the "type of player" DL should want.

So according to you DL tells Tombert I want Hood even though he is clearly a penetrating 4-3 DE? I mean that is what you think happened right?

 

[Superman]

I'd guess that is a more likely scenario than you assuming that DL, awoken from a nap in the draft room, just says "sure, whatever. doesnt matter to me. yeah."