What are the odds Cam proves worth $22 mill in 2024?

[Drink IRON City]

Home page article about Cam Heyward and missing OTAs. You can find it here STEELERNATION.COM

https://www.steelernation.com/2024/05/21/steelers-mike-tomlin-the-truth-cam-heyward

Doesn't have anything surprising in it, the usual team leader talk. Friend of the Tomlin, over 10,000 snap count.

I thin k he should have been there regardless of reasoning, it shows the rookies and younger players the importance of team participation, regardless of being a vet or not.



Salute the nation

 

[Greg Lloyd]

 

[Drink IRON City]

I think one of two options

1). Pay him this year, as is. No extension, dead man walking. Let him hold out if he feels he needs to.

2) 2 yr. Extension making cut and cap friendly, loaded with incentives, snap count, hits, hurries, etc..

I think he plays this year but it could get a little ugly, gone next season.

TEST his theory of taking a pay cut, similar to BEN.


Salute the nation

 

[Greg Lloyd]

Well, we got to keep the "most expensive defense" moniker going without the most expensive results.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Managing a roster is not a jigsaw puzzle where you fit all the pieces to complete the picture. It's Tetris where the puzzle keeps changing and you have to just fit pieces as they come.

you can't look at individual contracts and determine "worth" for each. Cam has been underpaid most of his career. Maybe he will now be somewhat overpaid for the last few. That more than balances out. But that's still not how the game works.

If a GM looks at every contract and refuses to "overpay" any player, you will end up with a team that is constantly rebuilding. Letting proven vets go, in hopes that the young replacement is just as good. That works on paper but not in real life.

Tennessee replaced an expensive AJ Brown with 1st round draft pick Treylon Burks. On paper, that works. You replaced a high priced veteran with a cheaper player that's a similar body type and skillset. In reality, that single move destroyed the Titans offense.

a good GM worries about getting the best team possible under the cap. Maybe you "overpay" for Cam but that is offset by other players that are underpaid. JPJ will be underpaid for years, same with Benton. You are paying almost nothing for the QB position.

Cam may be slowing down some but he will still be able to play above the line for a few years. DL needs depth. It is far worse to have no depth than to "overpay" a guy.

 

[Greg Lloyd]

you can't look at individual contracts and determine "worth" for each. Cam has been underpaid most of his career.

Forgive me, but under what matrix do you figure this? OK, for his rookie contract, we can all agree MOST NFL players are underpaid during their rookie contract years, but even there Cam didn't start producing until his 3rd year, so even in his rookie contact, not so much there. Look for yourself.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HeywCa01.htm

And by 2020 he started hitting the $ train hard, no one can claim he was underpaid since.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/7746/cameron-heyward

Sorry if I don't "feel sorry" for the $ Cam has been making, he's been cleaning up big time. No "woe for me" can come out of what's he's been taking home. That's total nonsense claiming he's been underpaid his entire career.

 

[stillwright]

Forgive me, but under what matrix do you figure this? OK, for his rookie contract, we can all agree MOST NFL players are underpaid during their rookie contract years, but even there Cam didn't start producing until his 3rd year, so even in his rookie contact, not so much there. Look for yourself.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HeywCa01.htm

And by 2020 he started hitting the $ train hard, no one can claim he was underpaid since.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/7746/cameron-heyward

Sorry if I don't "feel sorry" for the $ Cam has been making, he's been cleaning up big time. No "woe for me" can come out of what's he's been taking home. That's total nonsense claiming he's been underpaid his entire career.

Yep...Cam can't complain about the money he has banked over his career from the Steelers.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Managing a roster is not a jigsaw puzzle where you fit all the pieces to complete the picture. It's Tetris where the puzzle keeps changing and you have to just fit pieces as they come.

you can't look at individual contracts and determine "worth" for each. Cam has been underpaid most of his career. Maybe he will now be somewhat overpaid for the last few. That more than balances out. But that's still not how the game works.

If a GM looks at every contract and refuses to "overpay" any player, you will end up with a team that is constantly rebuilding. Letting proven vets go, in hopes that the young replacement is just as good. That works on paper but not in real life.

Tennessee replaced an expensive AJ Brown with 1st round draft pick Treylon Burks. On paper, that works. You replaced a high priced veteran with a cheaper player that's a similar body type and skillset. In reality, that single move destroyed the Titans offense.

a good GM worries about getting the best team possible under the cap. Maybe you "overpay" for Cam but that is offset by other players that are underpaid. JPJ will be underpaid for years, same with Benton. You are paying almost nothing for the QB position.

Cam may be slowing down some but he will still be able to play above the line for a few years. DL needs depth. It is far worse to have no depth than to "overpay" a guy.

While true, there is a difference where a player is at in their respective careers. Moving AJ Brown was kind of dumb on Tennessee's part. He's an elite receiver still early in his career and that was a team in transition with a QB, so having a stud WR makes sense. Heyward is 35 and, by the sounds of it, wants paid for what he's done in the past opposed to the player he'll be over the next couple of seasons. GMs really shouldn't be giving that type of money to a player for a fourth contract. Again, if he wants to sign a deal for a player who is on the decline and will have reduced snaps, that's fine. He just can't be paid like an elite interior pass rusher anymore.

Cam is a tough decision and the decision has to be if his price is too much, would those cap dollars be better allocated to younger talent opposed to a veteran on the decline.

 

[topseed]

Managing a roster is not a jigsaw puzzle where you fit all the pieces to complete the picture. It's Tetris where the puzzle keeps changing and you have to just fit pieces as they come.

you can't look at individual contracts and determine "worth" for each. Cam has been underpaid most of his career. Maybe he will now be somewhat overpaid for the last few. That more than balances out. But that's still not how the game works.

If a GM looks at every contract and refuses to "overpay" any player, you will end up with a team that is constantly rebuilding. Letting proven vets go, in hopes that the young replacement is just as good. That works on paper but not in real life.

Tennessee replaced an expensive AJ Brown with 1st round draft pick Treylon Burks. On paper, that works. You replaced a high priced veteran with a cheaper player that's a similar body type and skillset. In reality, that single move destroyed the Titans offense.

a good GM worries about getting the best team possible under the cap. Maybe you "overpay" for Cam but that is offset by other players that are underpaid. JPJ will be underpaid for years, same with Benton. You are paying almost nothing for the QB position.

Cam may be slowing down some but he will still be able to play above the line for a few years. DL needs depth. It is far worse to have no depth than to "overpay" a guy.

Cam Heyward, at the age of 35, is nothing like AJ Brown in his prime. Not remotely similar.

 

[Greg Lloyd]

Heyward is 35 and, by the sounds of it, wants paid for what he's done in the past opposed to the player he'll be over the next couple of seasons.

That's why it's not a tough decision at all.

 

[Drink IRON City]

James Harrison, as big a name as Heyward, was in this situation. They let him walk, only to return a year later, after the Bengals stint.

Cam is a tough decision, but I don't think you extend the guy unless it's a cap friendly extension.

16 million signing bonus, 8 mil per season, total two seasons.


Salute the nation

 

[stillwright]

James Harrison, as big a name as Heyward, was in this situation. They let him walk, only to return a year later, after the Bengals stint.

Cam is a tough decision, but I don't think you extend the guy unless it's a cap friendly extension.

16 million signing bonus, 8 mil per season, total two seasons.


Salute the nation

I would not shell out $16 mill SB to Cam at 35 years of age. That is crazy. Heck....his last contract they only gave him $17.5 mill SB on a 4 year deal. Now he is breaking down and has more wear and tear on his old body.

 

[Litos]

James Harrison, as big a name as Heyward, was in this situation. They let him walk, only to return a year later, after the Bengals stint.

Cam is a tough decision, but I don't think you extend the guy unless it's a cap friendly extension.

16 million signing bonus, 8 mil per season, total two seasons.


Salute the nation

Little guaranteed though

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Cam Heyward, at the age of 35, is nothing like AJ Brown in his prime. Not remotely similar.

that's not the point. The point is that Tenn made a move assuming they could just fill that hole with a cheaper younger player. Similarly, the steelers could let Cam leave and not have a replacement. Benton looks promising. But who else?

Steelers are starting Ogunjobi, Benton and Heyward

Here's the "depth" Loudermilk, Montravis Adams, Dean Lowry, Fehoko, Leal and 6th round rookie Logan Lee

You can afford to overpay Cam because you are saving money at other spots, namely the entire offense.

What's the bigger cost, overpaying 1 guy, or being bad on the DL and sinking a season?

So yes, you overpay Cam until you have somebody proven to take his place.

 

[Drink IRON City]

I would not shell out $16 mill SB to Cam at 35 years of age. That is crazy. Heck....his last contract they only gave him $17.5 mill SB on a 4 year deal. Now he is breaking down and has more wear and tear on his old body.

I hear yaz, but something has to be done amicably.

That 16 mil breaks down to 2-yrs 8 mill each, That’s a total of 16 million (1/2 signing bonus and year salary) this year, 8 mil next because you cut him. So for two years you are paying a total of 24 mil as opposed to paying him 22 million this single season.

It’s amicable and lets both sides off.

I know Cam is saying no pay cut and actually wants more $$$money$$$, but I’d never do that due to as you say……. He is at the end, twilight of his career.

They are not going to just cut him, so they need to find a way for this season only.


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[Greg Lloyd]

https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2024/05/23/steelers-cam-heyward-nfl-otas-contract/

Shades tries to temper the truth of the issue, BS as usual.

 

[topseed]

that's not the point. The point is that Tenn made a move assuming they could just fill that hole with a cheaper younger player. Similarly, the steelers could let Cam leave and not have a replacement. Benton looks promising. But who else?

Steelers are starting Ogunjobi, Benton and Heyward

Here's the "depth" Loudermilk, Montravis Adams, Dean Lowry, Fehoko, Leal and 6th round rookie Logan Lee

You can afford to overpay Cam because you are saving money at other spots, namely the entire offense.

What's the bigger cost, overpaying 1 guy, or being bad on the DL and sinking a season?

So yes, you overpay Cam until you have somebody proven to take his place.

Sink the season? You must be joking. Cam had a grand total of 33 tackles and 3 QB hits in 443 snaps last year. Which was only 64% of the team's defensive snaps in the eleven games he actually played in. This kind of "production" can't be replaced? Bullshlt.

Yeah, I'm saving 16 mill and taking my chances with Loudermilk and Adams. I'm sure they could muster three hits on the quarterback between them.

 

[keslerclan]

I don't know what all the fuss is about Cam. He has really only had 2 injury marred seasons since he's been a Steeler AND if he were just a few years younger, he might be making 30 million a year like Chris Jones (who doesn't have half of the tackles that Cam usually has) or Madubuike at 24mil/season.

Cam, when/if healthy is a top 5-10 defensive lineman. His stats are solid and he is always running down the field (unlike most DL). IF he stays healthy, 16m/yr is super cheap in 2024. He is paid at about the 17-18th highest DL in the league but his play is typically top 10. He should be fine this year and next year if he takes care of his body. Is it a risk? Yes, but not anymore risk than paying TJ Watt 30 million/yr. He's missed 11 games in 4 years from age 26-29 and Cam has missed 8 games over the past 4 years from age 30-34.

If we really want something valid to complain about, let's look at Minkah's huge money at 18m/yr whose missed 11 games in the last 4 years and went from 6 Ints in 2022 to zero last year with only 64 combined tackles after having 124 in 2021. What's the value in that?

As tape already said, having a bunch of mopes as back-ups to any of these high paid positions leaves you no choice...you pay and then pray.

We are one injury away from relevancy at some of our positions. That's what happens when you have superstar payers.

 

[Drink IRON City]

We only have 1 or 2 years left of this “HIGH” priced defense because the offense is going to catch up.

No BEN here to cover things up. Will the defense be able to operate with-in the normal range of cap $$$$ ?

It took 10 first rounders, in the past, to become relevant………….. ?

The Russ or the Justine will command bigger pay next year, that money has to come from somewhere. Rookies will be coming off rookie contracts………


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[Poobah]

We only have 1 or 2 years left of this “HIGH” priced defense because the offense is going to catch up.

No BEN here to cover things up. Will the defense be able to operate with-in the normal range of cap $$$$ ?

It took 10 first rounders, in the past, to become relevant………….. ?

The Russ or the Justine will command bigger pay next year, that money has to come from somewhere. Rookies will be coming off rookie contracts………


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per overthecap.com 2025 projected cap space for Steelers is 83M. I dont know if that includes roll over money from this year. We are 18M under now and dont imagine we will spend all of that. Of course, there will be opportunity for restructures as well. That is a lot to work with even if they sign a pricy qb. The list of FA QB's is not that impressive with Love, Tua and Dak being the biggest names. No chance those guys will open market between renewals and F-tags.

 

[slashsteel]

per overthecap.com 2025 projected cap space for Steelers is 83M. I dont know if that includes roll over money from this year. We are 18M under now and dont imagine we will spend all of that. Of course, there will be opportunity for restructures as well. That is a lot to work with even if they sign a pricy qb. The list of FA QB's is not that impressive with Love, Tua and Dak being the biggest names. No chance those guys will open market between renewals and F-tags.

Steelers had some interest in Dak when he was drafted. I would think they would look his way if oddly available.

 

[Poobah]

Steelers had some interest in Dak when he was drafted. I would think they would look his way if oddly available.

Perhaps. If Dallas doesn't get a deal done with him before FA and the don't franchise him.

 

[Drink IRON City]

per overthecap.com 2025 projected cap space for Steelers is 83M. I dont know if that includes roll over money from this year. We are 18M under now and dont imagine we will spend all of that. Of course, there will be opportunity for restructures as well. That is a lot to work with even if they sign a pricy qb. The list of FA QB's is not that impressive with Love, Tua and Dak being the biggest names. No chance those guys will open market between renewals and F-tags.

I’m sure they 83 mil includes the expected cap increase for next year as well.

Thanks for the input, appreciated.

The offense won’t continue to be as cheap in that the large discrepancy between the two. That gap will have to narrow sooner or later due to the Rookies currently coming due.


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[Poobah]

I’m sure they 83 mil includes the expected cap increase for next year as well.

Thanks for the input, appreciated.

The offense won’t continue to be as cheap in that the large discrepancy between the two. That gap will have to narrow sooner or later due to the Rookies currently coming due.


Salute the nation

Yes, that is with the project cap increase.
I don't disagree the gap will move toward the offense. Just saying taht we are not currently in a cap crisis. They are okay at the moment unless Russ or Justin light it up and want 300M guaranteed (and we are dumb enough to pay it)

 

[topseed]

I don't know what all the fuss is about Cam. He has really only had 2 injury marred seasons since he's been a Steeler AND if he were just a few years younger, he might be making 30 million a year like Chris Jones (who doesn't have half of the tackles that Cam usually has) or Madubuike at 24mil/season.

Cam, when/if healthy is a top 5-10 defensive lineman. His stats are solid and he is always running down the field (unlike most DL). IF he stays healthy, 16m/yr is super cheap in 2024. He is paid at about the 17-18th highest DL in the league but his play is typically top 10. He should be fine this year and next year if he takes care of his body. Is it a risk? Yes, but not anymore risk than paying TJ Watt 30 million/yr. He's missed 11 games in 4 years from age 26-29 and Cam has missed 8 games over the past 4 years from age 30-34.

If we really want something valid to complain about, let's look at Minkah's huge money at 18m/yr whose missed 11 games in the last 4 years and went from 6 Ints in 2022 to zero last year with only 64 combined tackles after having 124 in 2021. What's the value in that?

As tape already said, having a bunch of mopes as back-ups to any of these high paid positions leaves you no choice...you pay and then pray.

We are one injury away from relevancy at some of our positions. That's what happens when you have superstar payers.

I don't know what you're smoking. First of all, Cam isn't "just a few years younger," he's 35, which is ancient for a defensive lineman. Secondly, Chris Jones had 29 QB hits last season. Cam had 3.

Cam is NOT a "top 5-10 defensive lineman" anymore. You're kidding yourself. He's much closer to a "mope" than a top ten player at his position at this point.