What are the odds Cam proves worth $22 mill in 2024?

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

My insights can seem shocking for those not in the know; I realize this. But in time most come to terms that my foreknowledge being 20-20. Hopefully you will realize this.

dude you have downs,,,, there i said it outloud. Now you know. Im sorry to be the guy to tell you.

you right now:

https://tenor.com/bEvxf.gif

 

[SteelerFan448]

Thank you and Cam is gonna want paid more than any of those guys, just because he won the Walter Payton award and he is best buddies with Shades.

If Cam gets paid along the lines he should moving forward it should be a very quick deal to get done. It's also possible that Khan doesn't want to sign older players to a deal.

I know what Cam is at this point. He's not as good as he used to be but he's still the best DL the steelers have. That's just true.

Let Cam walk and it means you are OK with having either Loudermilk, Dean lowery, or Leal starting. That's insane. You are already deficient at an extremely important position. And that's assuming they stay healthy. What if the best of that lot gets injured and now you are playing their backup?

But it doesn't. There's the option to draft or sign a free agent.

 

[Steelmann]

My insights can seem shocking for those not in the know; I realize this. But in time most come to terms that my foreknowledge being 20-20. Hopefully you will realize this.

Are you FordFairLane’s twin brother?

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

But it doesn't. There's the option to draft or sign a free agent.

I expect they will draft a DL high next year, but Cam will still be needed. It takes time to get up to speed in the 3-4. Benton was promising last year but was inconsistent. Cam took time to develop. So did Tuitt. I can't think of a DE that was good from day 1 for the steelers.

They absolutely need Cam to start this year and likely next as well. At the least they will need Cam as depth next year. His game has always been strength, not speed. I think he can be effective for a few more years like Calais Campbell was.

Omar is great with the cap. I expect he'll hammer out a deal that is fair to both sides and allows the steelers to get out of it after 2 years without a huge cap hit.

 

[topseed]

You are confusing Salary and Cap hit. Cam’s salary for 24 is 16 mil. The 22mil is the cap hit. If he is released, they have a 6 mil dead money hit, or 3 mil twice.

Yeah, you got me. Their salaries were 10 mill vs. 16 mill. Since you're getting technical here, let me rephrase:

Calais Campbell's cap hit in 2021 was 13 million, nearly 10 million less than Heyward's cap hit here in 2024 at the same age.

Is that specific enough? Does it make you feel better that the Steelers have already invested that 6.4 million in Heyward whether he plays or not?

 

[topseed]

I know what Cam is at this point. He's not as good as he used to be but he's still the best DL the steelers have. That's just true.

Let Cam walk and it means you are OK with having either Loudermilk, Dean lowery, or Leal starting. That's insane. You are already deficient at an extremely important position. And that's assuming they stay healthy. What if the best of that lot gets injured and now you are playing their backup?

You need depth for a rotation at DL. Take Cam out and bump evereyone up a notch and now you are relying on a 2nd string caliber guy to start and a 3rd string caliber guy to play significant minutes in rotation. Maybe Loudermilk or Leal will improve or the 6th round rookie will prove to be a late round steal like Nick Herbig was but you can't plan on that. That's how you lie to yourself that you'll be fine with Kendrick Green or Mason Cole starting.

See, that's the problem. Dean Lowry is a "bum" that nobody's ever heard of, yet his stats in 2022 (when he had a similar snap count) are comparable to Heyward's production last season:

Heyward: 443 snaps, 2 sacks, 33 tackles, 6 TFLs, and 3 QB hits.
Lowry: 482 snaps, 1/2 a sack, 43 tackles, 1 TFL, and 5 QB hits.

Lowry's cap hit in 2024? $1.875 million. Or 20+ million less than Heyward.

You can lie to yourself and pretend Cam is 28 or even 33, but he just isn't. That's just true. His numbers suggest that he isn't first-string caliber anymore, and certainly not worth anywhere near $16 million here in 2024.

 

[MT~Forged]

Yeah, you got me. Their salaries were 10 mill vs. 16 mill. Since you're getting technical here, let me rephrase:

Calais Campbell's cap hit in 2021 was 13 million, nearly 10 million less than Heyward's cap hit here in 2024 at the same age.

Is that specific enough? Does it make you feel better that the Steelers have already invested that 6.4 million in Heyward whether he plays or not?

That 6.4mil was from previous years kicking the can down the road. yes it helps keep you under the cap, but always comes due even.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Just typical with most people, always want YOU to do something that would benefit them, but would never do it themselves. Cam being a hypocrite would not surprise me in the slightest. I still wouldn’t take less than my contract, and wouldn’t ask anyone else to do it either.

Many people are indeed hypocritical

It’s like Lloyd saying emphatically over and over even after the dead horse has been beaten, thrown down the stairs, tossed out a window, ran over by a Mac truck and tossed through a wood chipper that Cam needs to take a pay cut to benefit “the team”…anyone think hypocrite Lloyd went into his employer and offered to take a paycut (because Ben is the lord our savior and his actions must be mimicked)?

Makes zero sense for an employee to voluntarily offer their services for less than market value

 

[stillwright]

Many people are indeed hypocritical

It’s like Lloyd saying emphatically over and over even after the dead horse has been beaten, thrown down the stairs, tossed out a window, ran over by a Mac truck and tossed through a wood chipper that Cam needs to take a pay cut to benefit “the team”…anyone think hypocrite Lloyd went into his employer and offered to take a paycut (because Ben is the lord our savior and his actions must be mimicked)?

Makes zero sense for an employee to voluntarily offer their services for less than market value

Agreed. Management should approach the given player. I find it odd that the Steelers to date haven't asked Heyward about a cut in pay but Heyward has numerous times stated he wouldn't take less. Screenshot evidences to prove the naysayers wrong. Why say anything about his salary? Why take the screenshots? Is he reading to many message boards? Read to many written articles about the subject? Heyward is a 35 yo vet. You think at this point of his career he could easily block out the noise and or simply ignore the stupid stuff.

 

[Drink IRON City]

I think a lot of Cam’s reaching out is for Proxy intentions. Start bold upfront, allowing higher settlement pricing.

Not the first player to use this tactic. I seriously doubt he will hold out for long, but he doesn’t have near the leverage he thinks he does.

The Tomlin can only protect him for so long and I think Kahn is a master at navigation around contracts.

The Colbert would bend where as the Kahn will do his defined job.


Salute the nation

 

[Steelmann]

Heyward is a 35 yo vet. You think at this point of his career he could easily block out the noise and or simply ignore the stupid stuff.

I think he is definitely part of the podcast/media world now. And obviously he is in training for his life’s work after his playing days are over. He’s one of the guys creating noise now. Listen to his podcasts.
I’ve always liked Cam, it I must admit that lately he has started to piss me off.……..$115,582,735 is what his career earnings are. Someone said that he should get his 16 million because he has been underpaid for his good years. I disagree. Whenever he signed his contract extensions he always got paid top dollars in his position ……salaries just exploded during his years under contract.Heyward has a $22.4 million cap hit in 2024, the final year of a four-year contract that set a record for a defensive player over age 30 when he signed it in 2020.


To me,of late,since Kahn took over they have decidedly got rid of players causing distraction. Shall be interesting to see how far Cam wants to take this. Many players are asked to take a pay cut in today’s NFL. Especially when you’ve been injured as much asCam has the last few years. Yet Cam wants a pay raise? I actually find this quite disappointing from Cam. He’s been one of my favorite players from this era of the Steelers. It’s very obvious his play on the field does not equate his current salary….never mind a raise. For those that say we can’t get rid of Cam because we have no one to take his place….what a dangerous precedent to set. Let’s move on from that type of thinking. He’s still under contract. If Cam wants to **** around….play the other guys. Don’t bend Mr.Kahn. If there is an extension signed with any type of raise I would be quite disappointed. I am assuming Cam wants a fully guaranteed contract like the Jordan signing in New Orleans.

I have admittedly soured a bit from Cam. Mostly from watching his podcasts. The one I posted where he has Warren on and talks about the fines Warren incurred last season and how someone should start a Go Fund me page to pay his fines. Then his cohost basically said….hey,you’ve made lots of bank over the years with the Steelers,maybe you could help him out.
Crickets After that.
These guys are so out of touch with reality it’s sickening.

 

[Greg Lloyd]

Yeah, you got me. Their salaries were 10 mill vs. 16 mill. Since you're getting technical here, let me rephrase:

Calais Campbell's cap hit in 2021 was 13 million, nearly 10 million less than Heyward's cap hit here in 2024 at the same age.

Is that specific enough? Does it make you feel better that the Steelers have already invested that 6.4 million in Heyward whether he plays or not?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, wallyWOPP gazooks! That overhand right connected! Pick up the pieces.

 

[Greg Lloyd]

I think he is definitely part of the podcast/media world now. And obviously he is in training for his life’s work after his playing days are over. He’s one of the guys creating noise now. Listen to his podcasts.
I’ve always liked Cam, it I must admit that lately he has started to piss me off.……..$115,582,735 is what his career earnings are. Someone said that he should get his 16 million because he has been underpaid for his good years. I disagree. Whenever he signed his contract extensions he always got paid top dollars in his position ……salaries just exploded during his years under contract.Heyward has a $22.4 million cap hit in 2024, the final year of a four-year contract that set a record for a defensive player over age 30 when he signed it in 2020.


To me,of late,since Kahn took over they have decidedly got rid of players causing distraction. Shall be interesting to see how far Cam wants to take this. Many players are asked to take a pay cut in today’s NFL. Especially when you’ve been injured as much asCam has the last few years. Yet Cam wants a pay raise? I actually find this quite disappointing from Cam. He’s been one of my favorite players from this era of the Steelers. It’s very obvious his play on the field does not equate his current salary….never mind a raise. For those that say we can’t get rid of Cam because we have no one to take his place….what a dangerous precedent to set. Let’s move on from that type of thinking. He’s still under contract. If Cam wants to **** around….play the other guys. Don’t bend Mr.Kahn. If there is an extension signed with any type of raise I would be quite disappointed. I am assuming Cam wants a fully guaranteed contract like the Jordan signing in New Orleans.

I have admittedly soured a bit from Cam. Mostly from watching his podcasts. The one I posted where he has Warren on and talks about the fines Warren incurred last season and how someone should start a Go Fund me page to pay his fines. Then his cohost basically said….hey,you’ve made lots of bank over the years with the Steelers,maybe you could help him out.
Crickets After that.
These guys are so out of touch with reality it’s sickening.

So well said that just hitting the "like" button wasn't giving the post enough credit; you put my thoughts into words starting with the dishonest concept that Cam has been "underpaid" his career. That's hogwash. I view his latest attempt at a pay raise to coincide with his receiving the Walter Payton award - what fan can be against a recipient of THAT not getting a pay raise? Well, count YOU and me amongst them. It's nice award and everything, but it doesn't mean a 35-year-old should be getting a new contract and raise. It's simply not an appropriate way to run a team.

I used to really like Cam, but his latest act sickens me. His hypocritical stance of didactically lecturing Ben to take less $ for the team and then yet pulling off this act is repulsive. It's pure greed. And he thinks his "yes man" status with Shades get him a "get out of jail free card" as already seen my Tomlin's comments on Cam's hold out. ("Oh, it makes things easier not harder.")

Kahn, DO NOT fold like a beach chair. Do what is right, Walter Payton award and all.

 

[SteelerFan448]

I expect they will draft a DL high next year, but Cam will still be needed. It takes time to get up to speed in the 3-4. Benton was promising last year but was inconsistent. Cam took time to develop. So did Tuitt. I can't think of a DE that was good from day 1 for the steelers.

They absolutely need Cam to start this year and likely next as well. At the least they will need Cam as depth next year. His game has always been strength, not speed. I think he can be effective for a few more years like Calais Campbell was.

Omar is great with the cap. I expect he'll hammer out a deal that is fair to both sides and allows the steelers to get out of it after 2 years without a huge cap hit.

I just don't think you overpay him no matter how valuable his veteran presence is. This team doesn't even sign all its young, talented players to second contracts anymore. They can't overpay a lineman in his mid 30s, instead at a salary reflective of his future contributions.

 

[Ike Kelly]

So well said that just hitting the "like" button wasn't giving the post enough credit; you put my thoughts into words starting with the dishonest concept that Cam has been "underpaid" his career. That's hogwash. I view his latest attempt at a pay raise to coincide with his receiving the Walter Payton award - what fan can be against a recipient of THAT not getting a pay raise? Well, count YOU and me amongst them. It's nice award and everything, but it doesn't mean a 35-year-old should be getting a new contract and raise. It's simply not an appropriate way to run a team.

I used to really like Cam, but his latest act sickens me. His hypocritical stance of didactically lecturing Ben to take less $ for the team and then yet pulling off this act is repulsive. It's pure greed. And he thinks his "yes man" status with Shades get him a "get out of jail free card" as already seen my Tomlin's comments on Cam's hold out. ("Oh, it makes things easier not harder.")

Kahn, DO NOT fold like a beach chair. Do what is right, Walter Payton award and all.

More **** shoveling into your pie hole Coach. Your delusional takes place you on Hank the Tank level of imbecile. Cam “tells Ben to take a paycut”, he’s “greedy“ for asking for an extension, thinks he deserves one because he won WPMOY, or it’s solely because of Tomlin….ad nauseam. “Get out of jail free card”? Gheez, your nonsense is asinine. Cam and/or Tomlin lives in your head. Post the article link about Cam telling Ben to take a paycut, otherwise you are full of it. Ben was asked to Re-structure to alleviate the cap when it was frozen due to COVID. On his own, he took a $5 mil paycut (replaced with incentive and a void clause). So get a new Tomlin poster for your darts Lois Einhorne.

 

[BLITZ]

More **** shoveling into your pie hole Coach. Your delusional takes place you on Hank the Tank level of imbecile. Cam “tells Ben to take a paycut”, he’s “greedy“ for asking for an extension, thinks he deserves one because he won WPMOY, or it’s solely because of Tomlin….ad nauseam. “Get out of jail free card”? Gheez, your nonsense is asinine. Cam and/or Tomlin lives in your head. Post the article link about Cam telling Ben to take a paycut, otherwise you are full of it. Ben was asked to Re-structure to alleviate the cap when it was frozen due to COVID. On his own, he took a $5 mil paycut (replaced with incentive and a void clause). So get a new Tomlin poster for your darts Lois Einhorne.

So we'll spoken that just hitting the "like" wasnt giving the post enough credit.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Many people are indeed hypocritical

It’s like Lloyd saying emphatically over and over even after the dead horse has been beaten, thrown down the stairs, tossed out a window, ran over by a Mac truck and tossed through a wood chipper that Cam needs to take a pay cut to benefit “the team”…anyone think hypocrite Lloyd went into his employer and offered to take a paycut (because Ben is the lord our savior and his actions must be mimicked)?

Makes zero sense for an employee to voluntarily offer their services for less than market value

Well, Coach is infatuated with his dead horse.

This whole scenario is getting blown out of proportion because of Gerry Dulac and Madden’s tweet about Cam boycotting OTAs and hasn’t been in touch with the team. Of which he blasted both of them for it. Stated he has been in contact with the team/GM and the contract situation will work itself out. OTAs are purely voluntary (TJ missed some days) and are for rookies, new signees and vets wanting to get back in the groove if they were IR’d last year.

It’s all going to be a moot point anyway, when the NFLPA submits their request in a month or so to modify the offseason program. It’s been discussed by a couple insiders (NFL Network & ESPN) that the union will request the elimination of OTAs (there are 3) and allow two additional weeks to training camp. Which basically takes it back to what it was 25 years ago. Longer offseason, and players get in game shape during training camp.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Well, Coach is infatuated with his dead horse.

This whole scenario is getting blown out of proportion because of Gerry Dulac and Madden’s tweet about Cam boycotting OTAs and hasn’t been in touch with the team. Of which he blasted both of them for it. Stated he has been in contact with the team/GM and the contract situation will work itself out. OTAs are purely voluntary (TJ missed some days) and are for rookies, new signees and vets wanting to get back in the groove if they were IR’d last year.

It’s all going to be a moot point anyway, when the NFLPA submits their request in a month or so to modify the offseason program. It’s been discussed by a couple insiders (NFL Network & ESPN) that the union will request the elimination of OTAs (there are 3) and allow two additional weeks to training camp. Which basically takes it back to what it was 25 years ago. Longer offseason, and players get in game shape during training camp.

Could this also coincide with the introduction of the 2-game preseason and 18-game regular season?

 

[Greg Lloyd]

Could this also coincide with the introduction of the 2-game preseason and 18-game regular season?

Sorry, I nuked Ike's nonsensical comments so I don't know.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

See, that's the problem. Dean Lowry is a "bum" that nobody's ever heard of, yet his stats in 2022 (when he had a similar snap count) are comparable to Heyward's production last season:

Heyward: 443 snaps, 2 sacks, 33 tackles, 6 TFLs, and 3 QB hits.
Lowry: 482 snaps, 1/2 a sack, 43 tackles, 1 TFL, and 5 QB hits.

Lowry's cap hit in 2024? $1.875 million. Or 20+ million less than Heyward.

You can lie to yourself and pretend Cam is 28 or even 33, but he just isn't. That's just true. His numbers suggest that he isn't first-string caliber anymore, and certainly not worth anywhere near $16 million here in 2024.

talk about cherry picking. You compared Heyward 2023 when he played injured to Lowry 2022

Let's do more apples to apples

2022
Heyward 17 games 74 tackles 10.5 sacks 14 TFL 23 QB hits
Lowry 15 games 43 tackles 1/2 sack 1 TFL 5 QB hits

Lowry did miss 2 games. Maybe he would have had 5 sacks each in those and matched Cam

2023 - both injured and Cam came back and played while injured
Heyward 11 games 33 tackles 2 sacks 6 TFL 3 QB hits
Lowry 9 games 14 tackles 0 sacks 0 TFL 0 QB hits

You say I'm the one lying to myself and then you try to pass off Lowry as just as good as Cam at this point. A guy who will be 30 this year and coming off injury.

Cam's worst season while battling injury matches up with the about the best Lowry can do. Lowry is a good depth player, but again, if he's your starter, it's a potential weak spot against run heavy teams like Cleveland and Baltimore.

I just don't get why people are acting like Cam is dog crap and the Steelers are in cap trouble. The Steelers have over $18 Mill in cap space and they will have even more space if they give Cam a new deal because it will spread out his contract.

The steelers are paying their kicker more than both of their QBs. Russel Wilson is making less than the long snapper.

 

[slashsteel]

I have to agree with Lowry not being on the same level as Cam. In an injury infested season sure we could probably make a lot of comparisons. It is up to Cam to bounce back like he has in other injury moments.

But weighing the options for this season it just wouldn’t make sense to move on. Free agency has already been combed over, draft is in the rear view mirror. And the Steelers arguably have greater depth concerns without creating another.

They should be focusing in at WR and CB adding to the team not taking away from it. They can tweak his pay with a few options and should . But beyond that you ride the pine and then address it next offseason if need be.

Then there is also giving him the opportunity to bounce back after surgery. If he doesn’t you have your answer for next season.

 

[topseed]

Many people are indeed hypocritical

It’s like Lloyd saying emphatically over and over even after the dead horse has been beaten, thrown down the stairs, tossed out a window, ran over by a Mac truck and tossed through a wood chipper that Cam needs to take a pay cut to benefit “the team”…anyone think hypocrite Lloyd went into his employer and offered to take a paycut (because Ben is the lord our savior and his actions must be mimicked)?

Makes zero sense for an employee to voluntarily offer their services for less than market value

I get a kick out of guys like you and @diver who try to compare the occupations of NFL football players and average workers like they're even slightly analogous.

 

[topseed]

talk about cherry picking. You compared Heyward 2023 when he played injured to Lowry 2022

Let's do more apples to apples

2022
Heyward 17 games 74 tackles 10.5 sacks 14 TFL 23 QB hits
Lowry 15 games 43 tackles 1/2 sack 1 TFL 5 QB hits

Lowry did miss 2 games. Maybe he would have had 5 sacks each in those and matched Cam

2023 - both injured and Cam came back and played while injured
Heyward 11 games 33 tackles 2 sacks 6 TFL 3 QB hits
Lowry 9 games 14 tackles 0 sacks 0 TFL 0 QB hits

You say I'm the one lying to myself and then you try to pass off Lowry as just as good as Cam at this point. A guy who will be 30 this year and coming off injury.

Cam's worst season while battling injury matches up with the about the best Lowry can do. Lowry is a good depth player, but again, if he's your starter, it's a potential weak spot against run heavy teams like Cleveland and Baltimore.

I just don't get why people are acting like Cam is dog crap and the Steelers are in cap trouble. The Steelers have over $18 Mill in cap space and they will have even more space if they give Cam a new deal because it will spread out his contract.

The steelers are paying their kicker more than both of their QBs. Russel Wilson is making less than the long snapper.

I'm not cherry picking, guy. I choose those two recent seasons because the snap counts were comparable. Heyward was on the field nearly twice as much as Lowry in each of those years which you're supposedly doing "apples to apples."

I never said Lowry was hot shlt, or even starting material. What I indicated was how pedestrian Cam's numbers were in 2023...similar to those of a "depth player" such as Lowry. Again: Cam had 3 QB HITS IN 443 SNAPS. Now, you and others can continue to make excuses for Heyward and say he was playing on one leg and all the other bullshlt, but the fact remains that Cam's production went in the crapper last season. But now he's going to be all better and perform like he did when he was completely healthy and two years younger? For a full season at the age of 35? Yeah, OK. Let's just go ahead and overpay the guy and throw away 16 million more dollars. Just because. Sounds like a great plan.

 

[slashsteel]

I But now he's going to be all better and perform like he did when he was completely healthy and two years younger? For a full season at the age of 35? Yeah, OK.

I think Cam has bounced back better than I anticipated before. Sure his age is a factor I still like to give this guy the chance at proving he can bounce back. He wasn’t just the average player. Can he be the Cam of two years ago? I dunno. But perhaps some middle ground between that and last season. Which would probably be better play than any other DE on the roster. For me the state of the position has to factor in this season at this time. As I mentioned they should tweak his cap hit but I don’t think replacing the guy at this point is an option….

 

[diver]

I get a kick out of guys like you and @diver who try to compare the occupations of NFL football players and average workers like they're even slightly analogous.

Nah, not really comparing. Just making the observation that if you would be unwilling to go to your employer and ask for reduction in salary, stop with all the righteous indignation because Cam Heyward won't. It's really pretty simple.