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But Tomlin said if ya have weapons ya don’t need OL???
Are you saying ya have to use the weapons too???
Why is Matt Canada employed?
- Thread starter maowv
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Are you saying ya have to use the weapons too???
livingthrudying
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tape, nice find with the passing charts for Tua and Flacco. Single coverage all game on Pickens, and no deep balls to let him battle for a catch or perhaps even nab one on the fly and put up 6.
livingthrudying
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Funny I didn't see much of that offense in Arian's other stints since he left. In fact Arians loves the deep ball more than anything else. So again what's the common denominator? This crap has been going on since 2007 with 4 different OC's and not much change (except for it getting worse). Who do you think really likes and wants this short game BS? ill give you a clue, he came out and said last week that it was by design to minimize risk (seems the opposite of the forced retired no risk it no biscuit offense creator. It really is time to start putting the pieces together of how much of a stamp Tomlin has on this crap.
steelreeling
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Um Arians had a few incredible seasons with the Colts and Cardinals, even won the SuperBowl with the Bucs.
Arians' super-power some say is his ability to stay-the-f*ck away from good players and let them win the game.
He sure does, against Belechick anyway.
Here is what I don't quite understand. It seems like the general consensus has been over the years that the Steelers have been the more talented team but the Patriots are better coached...they will "scheme" you as Heyward said during the week. It seems lie the Steelers get paralyzed by that. If you think you are more talented, don't worry about what he's gonna do to you. Go out there and attack, let your athletes beat theirs.
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Honestly I'd say bring back Todd Haley. He was our best OC and really kept Big Ben upright for the first time in his career he really didn't take a pounding. During his tenure our offense could put up points. Our Defense was sub par because all the guys from the Super Bowl years retired so that hurt his win percentage but they could put up points!
I've been reading that it is now obvious Ben wasn't the problem with what we have been seeing. I agree with that to an extent. The truth many times is somewhere in between though. The two best OCs when Ben was here were Whiz and Haley, but he chaffed with them because they didn't kiss his ***.
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I kinda equate it out to Terry's relationship with Chuck Noll. They never connected or saw eye to eye but they really gave us some great Steeler moments. I know Ben was an Arians fan but Ben was getting KILLED with Arians as our OC. Sacked multiple seasons with 50+ sacks and more hits than a QB should ever take and I remember a reporter asking Bruce Arians after a game....might have been a loss vs Philly about using 3 step drops to help avoid the pass rush and Arians was quoted as saying "I prefer a 5 step or 7 step drop because I like yards in bunches". That was all I needed to read to know that Bruce Arians was a Round Peg, Square Hole kinda guy. Arians was terrible! I still don't know how we won a Super Bowl with him as our OC.
So a few things… first off the issues with arians isnt at all anything about the short passing game, outside of the lack of it… he loved the deep game. He designed great routes to clear out the safeties and linebackers on his plays, but he hated the middle of the field and refused to utilize slants and quick crosses to beat the pass rush
He would have had ben retired by 33 the way he was going… the sacks were piling up, so they opted to bring haley in for a more stable run game and short passing game.
The issues we have on O have little to do with the OC these days… its a staff wanting to play 1970 type super conservative football without an oline.. all the major issues are transcendent to the Tomlin era… lack of a fullback… Derek watt played for Canada… Canada always used fullbacks and hbacks through his offense… a lackluster conservative O that looks best in 2 minute and no huddle type situations…
I thought Canada would be enough of an ******* to deviate our trajectory, but im afraid this might be something from even higher than Tomlin… it might just be a franchise trying to reinvoke its glory years in an era that doesn’t really translate to it…
I just don’t think we are seing the same bullshit for the past four years over two OC’s and multiple qbs by accident… i think they want the O not to lose games and let the D win it… it’s utterly gutless and frankly, stupid as ****…
He would have had ben retired by 33 the way he was going… the sacks were piling up, so they opted to bring haley in for a more stable run game and short passing game.
The issues we have on O have little to do with the OC these days… its a staff wanting to play 1970 type super conservative football without an oline.. all the major issues are transcendent to the Tomlin era… lack of a fullback… Derek watt played for Canada… Canada always used fullbacks and hbacks through his offense… a lackluster conservative O that looks best in 2 minute and no huddle type situations…
I thought Canada would be enough of an ******* to deviate our trajectory, but im afraid this might be something from even higher than Tomlin… it might just be a franchise trying to reinvoke its glory years in an era that doesn’t really translate to it…
I just don’t think we are seing the same bullshit for the past four years over two OC’s and multiple qbs by accident… i think they want the O not to lose games and let the D win it… it’s utterly gutless and frankly, stupid as ****…
So in 1992 the Steelers hired a Guy named William Laird Cowher, a young and promising coach with a background in defense and special teams… helping him construct his first staff, the Steelers brought in Ron Erhardt as OC. Erhardt’s offensive template would be used for the entirety of the Cowher era, though Erhardt himself was replaced in 1996.
In 94 Chan Gailey’s multiple wr sets were incorporated into the mix.. eventually the Steelers would promote Gailey because Erhardt was simply too conservative in the 90’s.. despite a huge collection of good wrs, he wanted to run the ball, throw screens, and throw to fullbacks and tes almost exclusively…
In 95 , when the team had to open up the offense because of catastrophic losses to the D, the offense showed it was extremely potent and the hold up was Erhardt being conservative…
Cowher recognized this the previous years and utilized Gailey in the offense more in 95, though Erhardt was allowed to stay on the staff until his contract expired… eventually, despite wanting to stay on, Erhardt was officially removed from the staff… the Steelers would continue to utilize many of his concepts and schemes, but they would expand from his very small playbook into a much more modern version by 05…
The point is, if its the OC and not a bigger organizational issue, he can simply be quietly removed from playcalling… the Steelers don’t have to break character and fire him midseason
I just don’t think he is all of the issue though…
In 94 Chan Gailey’s multiple wr sets were incorporated into the mix.. eventually the Steelers would promote Gailey because Erhardt was simply too conservative in the 90’s.. despite a huge collection of good wrs, he wanted to run the ball, throw screens, and throw to fullbacks and tes almost exclusively…
In 95 , when the team had to open up the offense because of catastrophic losses to the D, the offense showed it was extremely potent and the hold up was Erhardt being conservative…
Cowher recognized this the previous years and utilized Gailey in the offense more in 95, though Erhardt was allowed to stay on the staff until his contract expired… eventually, despite wanting to stay on, Erhardt was officially removed from the staff… the Steelers would continue to utilize many of his concepts and schemes, but they would expand from his very small playbook into a much more modern version by 05…
The point is, if its the OC and not a bigger organizational issue, he can simply be quietly removed from playcalling… the Steelers don’t have to break character and fire him midseason
I just don’t think he is all of the issue though…
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Field goal Bruce
Yeah the issue with the arians offense was that it worked great from their own zone to the opposite 20 , but when the coverage got tight in the red zone they needed those plays over the middle occasionally and they didn’t have them…
You needed a better run game and more quick passes, not 5 second slow developing things
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Could not agree more with you. People want to fire Canada but this **** will keep happening until that narcissist Tomlin is told to keep his hands off the Offense just like they had to tell him for the defense. Stop handcuffing your coordinators and then firing them for coming up short
To me, regardless of who is coordinating, the problem is the Steelers seem to be so intent on being "multi-dimensional" that they don't do anything well. I get the need to be multi-dimensional. I think one of the issues with Cowher's early teams was they could run very well, but the passing game just wasn't as sophisticated as some of the teams they had to compete against come playoff time. So I get it. But the Cowher teams did do something well, which was run the ball. Until they commit to doing something well, it is gonna be some form of what we see right now. Maybe a little better some weeks, but never really good in any phase.
Maybe they are not as skilled as advertised?
I’m not impressed at this point of their careers.
Right. Harris has a tendency to run to darkness on occasion. Pickens is just a kid at this point. Claypool...who knows really.
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Remember those 7 game winning comebacks last year. (almost 8 if Freiermuth hangs on to a perfect td pass vs MN) That was the offense without Canada or Tomlin interfering with their coaching prowess. We as fans always blame the low man on the totem pole but in reality this is where the fault should lie.
#1- Art Roony II
He's the top man. This is his coach and his team. In my opinion nothing changes until he steps down and takes his agenda with him.
#2- Tomlin
He's the head coach. We have been through a slew of coordinators and position coaches on both sides of the ball with the same issues never getting fixed.
#3- Canada
He in reality never should have been hired as offensive coordinator. Can't blame him for taking the job. Hell, if they offered it to me I'd take it too. Doesn't mean I am qualified.
#4- Trubisky
I am not sure what control he has on the offense. The first few series are always scripted and considering we haven't scored a first quarter TD since Mason Rudolph vs the Lions I would say the script sucks. But after that sometimes you have to grow a set and change the play in the huddle or at least audible at the line. If you are steering the titanic and the captain tells you keep on course and you see an ice berg do you not disobey and turn the freaking ship?
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1 & 2 are here for life. Nothing we can do about that.
Seems our defense was rolling fine last week until TJ got hurt.
Canada - 100% correct on all four sentences.
Trubisky's in a hard spot. if he audibles and throws a pick, or the run is jammed behind the line, then he has to account for why he changed the play. I'm sure he'd be hammered by the coaching staff for that, too. He's most likely over-thinking every play - scripted or not. The scripted plays should allow him to get a feel for how the defense is going to play, as well as how the refs are going to "call" the game. I commend the coaching staff for that, especially in away games. But, we also need to be able to adjust per play. Which brings us back to Mitch and audibling. Mitch is playing not to lose the game and his job, while the fans are chanting Kenny Kenny Kenny, and rightfully so. Mitch is in a bad spot, but his play and over-thinking is putting the team in a bad spot. Sometimes I wonder how Mitch would be if we hadn't drafted Kenny. Would he have more confidence in his skills and what he's seeing?
at any rate, I'd fire Canada yesterday.
****, I'd even send a 6th to Cleveland to bring back Dobbs and let him call the plays.
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Mitch has to know if the offense keeps playing like this he won't be the starting QB much longer. At this point his only recourse is to ignore Canada and Tomlin and call the plays he feels will work. At least if you go down you should go down doing what you want. It's not like he has anything to lose at this point. I feel if we get monkey stomped (very likely) on Thursday night football on national TV and he has a poor performance, he isn't the starting QB vs the Jets in October. That is just my gut feeling. I think if he doesn't perform the Steelers put him on the injury report with a fictitious rib or arm injury.
livingthrudying
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My whole point was that Arian's was not the one turning this offense into the short dump offense it has become. Arian's is capable and has proven so. If i honestly had to guess the real reason he was (retired) was cause him and Ben got along to well and left Tomlin out in the cold and Tomlin didn't like that.
I agree with ya. But also was the issue of ben taking hits ,, trying to go deep a lot, Haley brought more ball control passing.
Wasn't Arians already here?
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I had to throw his in to. Daniel Martin Rooney is likely next in line to be President of the Steelers. Unlike Art the Deuce, Dan is a football guy. Art is a CPA and has no business owning a professional football team. None. He should sit back and collect his checks and let people that know football run his team for him. That said, Dan was a QB at Dartmouth, four year backup but still a college QB. But he's a football guy. He isn't going to penny pinch and force start Artie Burns, Jarvis Jones and Devin Bush because of their draft status and signing bonus. And if you think those guys didn't start because of that you are sorely mistaken. He will put the team first. Art the piece of Deuce is 70 and I feel will hang on as president for another 5ish years. Likely take a step back and remain owner for years longer. So Dan probably doesn't get full control anytime soon but when he gets to make some decisions I feel that is the second coming of this franchise. Dan Rooney hired Cowher and Chuck Noll. That gave us two of the best coaches this franchise has ever seen. Tomlin is the Emmitt Smith of coaches. He might have the numbers but no one thinks he's the best ever.