Guns have been legal here for 243 years and that horse isn't going back in the barn. That said, in Europe where guns have historically NOT been widely available, the Muzzies will just run groups of folks over with a truck.
El Paso TX Mass Shooting; 19 Dead, 40 Injured at Walmart
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Guns have been legal here for 243 years and that horse isn't going back in the barn. That said, in Europe where guns have historically NOT been widely available, the Muzzies will just run groups of folks over with a truck.
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This is exactly what you get in a culture where anything goes and nothing matters.
https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/hold-the-teddy-bears-and-candles/
Hold the Teddy Bears and Candles
August 5, 2019 | Clusterfuck Nation
In a nation afflicted by fads, crazes, manias, and rages, mass murder is the jackpot for nihilists — begging the question: why does this country produce so many of them? Answer: this is exactly what you get in a culture where anything goes and nothing matters. Extract all the meaning and purpose from being here on earth, and erase as many boundaries as you can from custom and behavior, and watch what happens, especially among young men trained on video slaughter games.
For many, there is no armature left to hang a life on, no communities, no fathers, no mentors, no initiations into personal responsibility, no daily organizing principles, no instruction in useful trades, no productive activities, no opportunities for love and affection, and no way out. This abyss of missing social relations is made worse by the everyday physical settings for everyday lives based on nothing: the wilderness of parking lots that America has turned itself into. Such is the compelling myth of the New World as a wilderness that we obliged ourselves to re-enact it, minus nature, including human nature, especially what may be noble and sacred about human nature.
The old truism sticks: when nothing is sacred, everything is profane, and what could be more profane than slaughtering your fellow humans en masse, for no good reason? Just because you felt like it at the time? Another time, you might feel like scarfing some tacos, or checking in on the free porn sites, or tweaking some crushed-up oxycontin. One message from the culture of anything-goes-and-nothing-matters comes through loud and clear: if it feels good, do it! And if you feel bad, do something to make yourself feel better.
The wonder is that the way we live these days hasn’t turned more people into homicidal maniacs, considering how many are out there feeling bad in this grotesque landscape of incessant motoring, vivid purposelessness, and lost aspiration — unless these bloody skirmishes are the precursor to some more general outbreak of murderous havoc. It’s not hard these days to imagine the political animus ratcheting up to something like a new civil war. If it works out that way, it will be the most psychologically confused political event of modern history.
The Walmart is the perfect setting for these ceremonies of nihilist wrath. The sheer size of these places makes the “consumers” inside feel small, and informs them that they are at the mercy of colossal forces for their pitiful daily needs, their Hot Pockets, their disposable diapers, their roach spray. The shooter is just a momentary concentration of everything else grinding the dignity and meaning out of American lives. The bad karma in these dynamics compels some periodic release. Cue some young man jacked on his own hormones and a comic book conception of human power relations.
I’m not persuaded that a ban on gun sales will do anything to prevent more of these deadly episodes because there are already too many firearms loose in America. But it is probably necessary to make some kind of statement, say a ban on military-type weapons, and I rather expect that will happen. But the political process of recognizing what really ails this society is mired in bad faith, idiocy, and neuroticism. And the political actors are signaling their ineptitude clearly, which only adds to the sweeping demoralization of everybody else.
We await a restructuring of American life into real communities of people working together at things that matter, and it will require the demise of the things that have worked so hard to destroy all that, namely, the tyranny of the giants, the town-killing Walmarts, the suffocating monster of government, the media manipulators of reality, the too-big-to-fail banks. The people alone won’t loosen the grip of these monsters and, honestly, they lack the will to even imagine life without all that. But history onrushing will do it for them, first in the form of a financial fiasco that upsets the meaning of what “money” is, and all the instruments calibrated in it; and then with an economic collapse of supply lines and activities that we can’t afford to carry on anymore.
The people may have to be dragged kicking and screaming into that new disposition of things, just because it’s so hard to let go of what you’re used to. Something like this appears to be underway now in global business and markets. For a while, it will only add to the confusion. Clarity is a lagging effect.
https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/hold-the-teddy-bears-and-candles/
Hold the Teddy Bears and Candles
August 5, 2019 | Clusterfuck Nation
In a nation afflicted by fads, crazes, manias, and rages, mass murder is the jackpot for nihilists — begging the question: why does this country produce so many of them? Answer: this is exactly what you get in a culture where anything goes and nothing matters. Extract all the meaning and purpose from being here on earth, and erase as many boundaries as you can from custom and behavior, and watch what happens, especially among young men trained on video slaughter games.
For many, there is no armature left to hang a life on, no communities, no fathers, no mentors, no initiations into personal responsibility, no daily organizing principles, no instruction in useful trades, no productive activities, no opportunities for love and affection, and no way out. This abyss of missing social relations is made worse by the everyday physical settings for everyday lives based on nothing: the wilderness of parking lots that America has turned itself into. Such is the compelling myth of the New World as a wilderness that we obliged ourselves to re-enact it, minus nature, including human nature, especially what may be noble and sacred about human nature.
The old truism sticks: when nothing is sacred, everything is profane, and what could be more profane than slaughtering your fellow humans en masse, for no good reason? Just because you felt like it at the time? Another time, you might feel like scarfing some tacos, or checking in on the free porn sites, or tweaking some crushed-up oxycontin. One message from the culture of anything-goes-and-nothing-matters comes through loud and clear: if it feels good, do it! And if you feel bad, do something to make yourself feel better.
The wonder is that the way we live these days hasn’t turned more people into homicidal maniacs, considering how many are out there feeling bad in this grotesque landscape of incessant motoring, vivid purposelessness, and lost aspiration — unless these bloody skirmishes are the precursor to some more general outbreak of murderous havoc. It’s not hard these days to imagine the political animus ratcheting up to something like a new civil war. If it works out that way, it will be the most psychologically confused political event of modern history.
The Walmart is the perfect setting for these ceremonies of nihilist wrath. The sheer size of these places makes the “consumers” inside feel small, and informs them that they are at the mercy of colossal forces for their pitiful daily needs, their Hot Pockets, their disposable diapers, their roach spray. The shooter is just a momentary concentration of everything else grinding the dignity and meaning out of American lives. The bad karma in these dynamics compels some periodic release. Cue some young man jacked on his own hormones and a comic book conception of human power relations.
I’m not persuaded that a ban on gun sales will do anything to prevent more of these deadly episodes because there are already too many firearms loose in America. But it is probably necessary to make some kind of statement, say a ban on military-type weapons, and I rather expect that will happen. But the political process of recognizing what really ails this society is mired in bad faith, idiocy, and neuroticism. And the political actors are signaling their ineptitude clearly, which only adds to the sweeping demoralization of everybody else.
We await a restructuring of American life into real communities of people working together at things that matter, and it will require the demise of the things that have worked so hard to destroy all that, namely, the tyranny of the giants, the town-killing Walmarts, the suffocating monster of government, the media manipulators of reality, the too-big-to-fail banks. The people alone won’t loosen the grip of these monsters and, honestly, they lack the will to even imagine life without all that. But history onrushing will do it for them, first in the form of a financial fiasco that upsets the meaning of what “money” is, and all the instruments calibrated in it; and then with an economic collapse of supply lines and activities that we can’t afford to carry on anymore.
The people may have to be dragged kicking and screaming into that new disposition of things, just because it’s so hard to let go of what you’re used to. Something like this appears to be underway now in global business and markets. For a while, it will only add to the confusion. Clarity is a lagging effect.
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the Dem's response since these tragedies to be purely political and despicable? Trump had no more responsibility for El Paso, than Bernie Sanders had for the shooting of Steve Scalise, or Pocahontas has for Dayton. But the Dem talking points spread like wildfire, to the rank and file, as well as their MSM propaganda machine.Their rhetoric is excessive and hate filled. They are stoking the fires of hate on both sides.
But then again, after watching the shameful spectacle that was the Kavanaugh hearings, I shouldn't be shocked. It just seems to get worse.
But then again, after watching the shameful spectacle that was the Kavanaugh hearings, I shouldn't be shocked. It just seems to get worse.
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Well yeah but I'm not the least bit surprised by it. It was easy to see it coming a mile away. They will do anything to get a political advantage, even if it's taking advantage of a tragedy.
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A few random thoughts....
The last few days I've seen an awful lot of hateful rhetoric from people who claim to be against hateful rhetoric.
My son has played Call of Duty for years and is one of the kindest, most docile teenage boys you'd ever want to meet. His friends all play it too and I can virtually guarantee that none of them will shoot anyone.
I don't like being in the position of defending Trump necessarily but to blame him for this cultural phenomenon that has been going on for decades is ludicrous.
Both of these people would have passed any background check.
Both of these guys were over 21 so "raising the age" wouldn't have made a difference.
There probably should be some kind of "red flag" system so for example a kid who has been suspended from school twice for keeping a list of people he wants to kill and people he wants to sexually assault should not be able to buy a gun. Making threats or advocating violence online should also be a "red flag".
It might behoove Trump politically to push for one or more of these completely ineffective meaningless laws so he can say he "did something". I don't like that idea too much but it would prevent Dems from using this issue as a political hammer, especially considering their holier than thou self righteous hero Obama made not a shred of progress towards this issue.
The last few days I've seen an awful lot of hateful rhetoric from people who claim to be against hateful rhetoric.
My son has played Call of Duty for years and is one of the kindest, most docile teenage boys you'd ever want to meet. His friends all play it too and I can virtually guarantee that none of them will shoot anyone.
I don't like being in the position of defending Trump necessarily but to blame him for this cultural phenomenon that has been going on for decades is ludicrous.
Both of these people would have passed any background check.
Both of these guys were over 21 so "raising the age" wouldn't have made a difference.
There probably should be some kind of "red flag" system so for example a kid who has been suspended from school twice for keeping a list of people he wants to kill and people he wants to sexually assault should not be able to buy a gun. Making threats or advocating violence online should also be a "red flag".
It might behoove Trump politically to push for one or more of these completely ineffective meaningless laws so he can say he "did something". I don't like that idea too much but it would prevent Dems from using this issue as a political hammer, especially considering their holier than thou self righteous hero Obama made not a shred of progress towards this issue.
Yet the Dayton shooter was a self-avowed socialist and lover of Elizabeth Warren, and not a peep about that. But you know what, I'm kind of glad most (at least I hope most) conservatives aren't blaming Elizabeth ******* Warren because she had nothing to do with this piece of **** monster doing what he did. I believe a rational mind, who once they get past the emotions of all of of this, see the repugnant way these politicians have acted and vote accordingly at the booth.
And speaking of Pocahontas, she actually blamed Fox News for the shooting in El Paso. Disgusting.
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I grew up on video games. Played all kinds of violent games, Games by themselves are not an issue. The issue is when there is no parental guidance and no group of friends to play with. I know that games today all have chat features so you can talk to your opponent. While that may be technically "social" it's far different than having some friends who actually come over to your house and laugh and play games and make fart jokes and eat hot pockets.
So many of today's social interactions are empty. You don't get a human connection from tweets or from talking on a headset to a guy who lives 100 miles away.
It is proven that the "Likes" on many internet sites can become addictive. Humans crave validation. It doesn't take long to learn the type of Tweets or Facebook posts or Youtube clips that go viral. It is usually going to be a Hot Take on some subject. The competition to stand out means getting more and more extreme.
That's how you get to Kathy Griffin holding a severed head and Samantha B calling Ivanka Trump a **** and being praised for it as if she just made a witty observation worthy of the Algonquin round table.
To me, the gun is the least part of this equation.
I think these past 2 killers would have still murdered people even if they couldn't get a gun. They would have used a homemade bomb, or drove a car through a crowd. There's no way you get to that breaking point and a law will stop you.
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I also think a big part of this is that male behavior is now being stifled and declared "Toxic". Boys should be aggressive. It is in male nature. That doesn't mean being a bully and beating up the weird kid at lunch. It does mean having a wrestling match break out during pick up hoops game, or stupid horseplay like kicking your best friend in the *** for no reason then snickering about it, knowing he is just planning his moment to get you back.
Schools now will not allow any horseplay. If they see any play that is the least bit rough, they will stop it. Again, I don't mean fighting. I mean rough play. It's now being shut down. Anything physical or aggressive is punished. You end up with a lot of males who have pent up aggression with no outlet.
Then add in that their teachers then tell them that the world will end in 10 years and you have a powder keg of emotions, rage, and desperation.
Schools now will not allow any horseplay. If they see any play that is the least bit rough, they will stop it. Again, I don't mean fighting. I mean rough play. It's now being shut down. Anything physical or aggressive is punished. You end up with a lot of males who have pent up aggression with no outlet.
Then add in that their teachers then tell them that the world will end in 10 years and you have a powder keg of emotions, rage, and desperation.
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So you are asking why didn’t they kill the white guy, when they always kill the unarmed black guy, right?
To ease your mind, the guy in Dayton was killed by police. There is video of it. He was following a crowd of people into a bar and 3 cops killed him at the door. Not sure what you are watching or reading, but nearly every news outlet I have seen show the guy in Dayton getting killed. As far as the guy is n El Paso, I have no idea.
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And for the record, it appears the guy in Dayton was mentally ill. I mean, what I have read, he was ****** in the head. Just a sick, sick man.
It appears the guy in El Paso was a xenophobic or racist. I would say wait for the facts, but I doubt we’ll see those.
It appears the guy in El Paso was a xenophobic or racist. I would say wait for the facts, but I doubt we’ll see those.
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Yeah it sounds like the guy in Dayton Ohio was a real mentally ill psychopath. His HS principal comes out and says he was suspended for talking about raping and skinning people? There's a glaring red ******* flag people.
The guy in El Paso had a manifesto that was quite reasoned, articulate and intelligent. A real ******* evil monster if you ask me. Police say he's been more than cooperative, offering even more than just 'yes' or 'no' answers to their questions. Really wish they took that ****** out same as the Dayton lunatic.
They apparently killed him (Dayton guy) within 30 seconds of his first shot being fired. They were very nearby apparently, and we should all be glad for that.
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Isn't this also a big reason for the explosion in homeless? I've read that a large portion of them have various mental illnesses. Years ago, they would have been treated and "cured" to the point they could manage their illness and lead a normal life. But now they are getting dumped by the system and they end up on the streets.
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Reading up on the guy, this wasn’t a racist hate crime in Dayton. That dude was just sick. He had issues with people, not races of people. Not that it matters. Anyone who does this **** has issues that go deeper than race, even if the crime was racially motivated. I couldn’t kill anyone just to kill them. Even if I hated them. I couldn’t. I could kill in self defense. Pretty sure. Hope I never find out.
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Social media has been an open sewer for the past couple of days, lots of people showing their true colors. I actually had one minority 'friend' claim that she has experienced white supremacy at the hands of white peoples who were 'prideful' in her presence. 'Prideful'?!? Like white men are supposed to walk around with our heads down, staring at the ground out of some perceived shame we're supposed to feel for being white? If we hold our heads high and show any pride in ourselves then we're racist, promoters of white supremacy? Seriously, WTF?
**** like that will lead to more ******** like the Walmart shooter.
I missed it, Sarge.
I was only making a comparison of the threatening events. Nothing to see...
I don't understand. What did we miss and what comparison were you making?
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Absolutely. No doubt about it. Even if they are placed somewhere and "treated", 3 days of counseling before their release isn't going to do jack ****.
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This seems to be the way society is in general. People are released from hospitals too soon only to end back a couple days later. I work in a nursing home and I cant tell you how many times Drs released people to go home and w/ in a week they were in a hospital or back in our home. Just last week we had a guy leave Thursday evening was admitted back in the hospital Friday afternoon. Same with someone if they get 302ed after a few days they are magically fixed up. Seems like in the long run it would cost less to fix people properly than release them too soon only to have them come in and out...
So, my understanding is that the El Paso shooter was taken into custody without incident. While the world would be a better place without him, when you comply with authorities, you usually don’t get shot, or tased or beaten. Seems like a simple concept but many fail to understand this and then cry police brutality.
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Why in the hell isn't anyone outraged over the gang and gun violence that occurs every damn day in every major American city? Young men, mostly African American, are killing each other by the hundreds, but no one ever suggests taking care of those problems. No, they are going to come after me, the law abiding citizen. Easiest target, low hanging fruit. That way they can say they "did something" without actually addressing real issues.
But my question is, how is confiscating my guns or limiting my access to guns going to solve the gun violence in the inner cities? How is it going to stop mass shootings at Wal Mart in El Paso? Address the problems in the inner cities with what I can only assume are mostly illegal weapons, then come talk to me.
But my question is, how is confiscating my guns or limiting my access to guns going to solve the gun violence in the inner cities? How is it going to stop mass shootings at Wal Mart in El Paso? Address the problems in the inner cities with what I can only assume are mostly illegal weapons, then come talk to me.
until the end of time, it's going to a gun issue, not a mentally unstabe issue. All of this is 100% pollitically charged. It's like watching warthogs feasting on a carcass. Just waiting for the pounce to occur.
I ask the same question with little answers, "how are we going to stop the people with blind hate or mental issues?" We can give them all the background checks, waiting periods, blah, blah, blah we want, but their intent is to kill and be killed. LIfe, as they know it doesn't matter to them. All three response times(CA, TX, OH) were in the matter of seconds, if not mere minutes that LEO were there on the scene to save more lives. THe NRA is getting a lot of crap pointed in their direction, but I don't recall one of their members committing mass murder. I could be wrong , though. This problem is a lot deeper than less guns and background checks. If I pass the background checks today and go off the reservation tomorrow, how would I be stopped?
to bermudas point, the El Paso shooter surrendered immediately w/o incident. I don't know how the Tree of Life or Brighton Heights shooters, as well many others survive the gun fights or are taken in without incident. They survived SWAT teams. Even though the El Paso shooter survived, he should be put down immediately. Get all the info they want from him and then see ya, start making examples of these sickos. They are never getting out and they don't deserve to be rehabed.
I ask the same question with little answers, "how are we going to stop the people with blind hate or mental issues?" We can give them all the background checks, waiting periods, blah, blah, blah we want, but their intent is to kill and be killed. LIfe, as they know it doesn't matter to them. All three response times(CA, TX, OH) were in the matter of seconds, if not mere minutes that LEO were there on the scene to save more lives. THe NRA is getting a lot of crap pointed in their direction, but I don't recall one of their members committing mass murder. I could be wrong , though. This problem is a lot deeper than less guns and background checks. If I pass the background checks today and go off the reservation tomorrow, how would I be stopped?
to bermudas point, the El Paso shooter surrendered immediately w/o incident. I don't know how the Tree of Life or Brighton Heights shooters, as well many others survive the gun fights or are taken in without incident. They survived SWAT teams. Even though the El Paso shooter survived, he should be put down immediately. Get all the info they want from him and then see ya, start making examples of these sickos. They are never getting out and they don't deserve to be rehabed.
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While I understand your sentiment and even kind of agree with it, we simply cannot do that. It removes due process rights, and to me, that is far more dangerous than a crazy person or racist with a gun. Now once they are tried, convicted and have exhausted their appeals, I can't see a point in keeping them alive in prison for 35 years.
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Yep, this is the crux of the problem. Back when I could still have rational gun control discussions with my liberal friends (which I don't even attempt anymore) I would point out that most of these shooters would pass any background check, don't buy the gun the day before the attack, some of them got their guns illegally through straw purchases, some used guns owned by other people. These shootings happen in places where certain guns or magazines are banned, they happen with illegal modifications made to the guns, hello...these folks aren't interested in obeying laws.
But even if we were able to eliminate all guns tomorrow, people who want to kill and don't mind dying themselves have a myriad of other options from explosives to vehicles to doing something really horrific like poisoning a water supply or something.
The only way I think we can reduce this problem is identifying these people and trying to intervene before it happens. The common threads seem to be they are loners and outcasts, they've mostly shown signs of rage and hatred before, many of them come from dysfunctional, broken families. Where does the rage and hate come from, that's what we need to focus on. Find these people and try to treat them, but most of all, monitor their activities. If a kid has hitlists and talks about raping and skinning people that kid should be compelled to be in some kind of ongoing treatment and monitoring or else face confinement. We aren't going to stop this simply by eliminating the current weapons of choice.
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