Example of why gun control laws are almost always stupid

[Tibs]

I thought you were a progressive. welwala

You thought wrong. Mostly a centrist who leans left on social issues, and leans right on foreign policy. But you guys needs a boogeyman to keep your fragile egos afloat, so....

 

[Iron95]

Much like Supe, you too, paint with too broad a brush. No surprise there, that's a MAGA staple. Oversimplifaction and overgeneralization of basically all issues.

By accusing MEGA of painting with a broad brush, you yourself are painting with a broad brush. "No surprise there".

 

[Iron95]

You thought wrong. Mostly a centrist who leans left on social issues, and leans right on foreign policy. But you guys needs a boogeyman to keep your fragile egos afloat, so....

I never think wrong. You must be in error.

 

[Superman]

Never for a second have I agreed with defunding or disarming the police. You paint with too wide a brush (to insert a gratuitous Tomlinism).

really? you've not said a word in disagreement with your party's desire to defund the popo.
notice, no one said disarm the popo - that's inserting something that wasn't said, stating it as a fact and arguing against it.

nice swerve and deflection, though.

so you want a disarmed population. gee, wonder if there's any history that we can draw upon to determine if this is a good or bad idea.

 

[Tibs]

really? you've not said a word in disagreement with your party's desire to defund the popo.
notice, no one said disarm the popo - that's inserting something that wasn't said, stating it as a fact and arguing against it.

nice swerve and deflection, though.

so you want a disarmed population. gee, wonder if there's any history that we can draw upon to determine if this is a good or bad idea.

Nope, no prob with responsible gun ownership. Would like to see tighter controls on semi-automatic weapons, high capacity ammo, background checks, crackdown on criminals & illegal weapons. That's pretty much it. Find it laughable - and disappointing - that the notion of ANY type of restriction or regulation on guns is met with complete and utter hysteria on the right. But, what's new?

 

[Superman]

Nope, no prob with responsible gun ownership. Would like to see tighter controls on semi-automatic weapons, high capacity ammo, background checks, crackdown on criminals & illegal weapons. That's pretty much it. Find it laughable - and disappointing - that the notion of ANY type of restriction or regulation on guns is met with complete and utter hysteria on the right. But, what's new?

so, do tell what you propose to make "tighter controls on semi-automatic weapons, high capacity ammo, background checks, crackdown on criminals & illegal weapons"

 

[Tibs]

so, do tell what you propose to make "tighter controls on semi-automatic weapons, high capacity ammo, background checks, crackdown on criminals & illegal weapons"

Why pretend you give two ***** about what I have to say? Let's not kid ourselves.

 

[diver]

Nope, no prob with responsible gun ownership. Would like to see tighter controls on semi-automatic weapons, high capacity ammo, background checks, crackdown on criminals & illegal weapons. That's pretty much it. Find it laughable - and disappointing - that the notion of ANY type of restriction or regulation on guns is met with complete and utter hysteria on the right. But, what's new?

Not hysteria...just the absolute realization that restrictions and regulations will not, have never, and will never, stop criminals from doing what they want to do. There is nothing new in that statement, there doesn't have to be. It is an undeniable fact.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

so, do tell what you propose to make "tighter controls on semi-automatic weapons, high capacity ammo, background checks, crackdown on criminals & illegal weapons"

Sensible guns laws of course! Don't expect anything cognitive from the left, it all about optics, guns are bad, bad.

Ever notice that with the libs, depression is a competitive sport?

 

[Superman]

Why pretend you give two ***** about what I have to say? Let's not kid ourselves.

gave you the floor. open yourself up and say what you feel is best.

 

[Iron95]

Why pretend you give two ***** about what I have to say? Let's not kid ourselves.

I agree with Tibs. I don't give 2 ***** what he has to say.

 

[Confluence]

I dare you to show me the correlation between the new law and this event. Try.

same state, same year!!!

 

[Confluence]

Have it your way. A general population armed to the teeth, ammo packed to the ceiling, everyone's carrying heat, easy access to semi-automatic weapons & high capacity ammo.... let the American Killing Fields commence! Shoot your way though your day at work, at school, dinner at restaurants, night out on town, trip to beach or the park. Shoot, shoot, shoot first and ask questions later. What a life! What a country!

Hey Tibtard, Do you know where the Killing Fields were, and how the name came to be? Communists, led by Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge:

The Killing Fields (Khmer: វាលពិឃាត, Khmer pronunciation: [ʋiəl pikʰiət]) are a number of sites in Cambodia where collectively more than one million people were killed and buried by the Khmer Rouge regime (the Communist Party of Kampuchea) during its rule of the country from 1975 to 1979, immediately after the end of the Cambodian Civil War (1970–1975). The mass killings were part of a broad state-sponsored genocide (the Cambodian genocide).

Analysis of 20,000 mass grave sites by the DC-Cam Mapping Program and Yale University indicates at least 1,386,734 victims of execution.[1][2] Estimates of the total deaths resulting from Khmer Rouge policies, including death from disease and starvation, range from 1.7 to 2.5 million out of a 1975 population of roughly 8 million. In 1979, Vietnam invaded Democratic Kampuchea and toppled the Khmer Rouge regime, ending the genocide.

The Cambodian journalist Dith Pran coined the term "killing fields" after his escape from the regime.[3]

Apparently you do not get the irony that a well-armed population could not have been rounded up and genocided for political reasons. Maybe Pol Pot thought they were rednecks, or faith based folks, or they just didn't vote the way he wanted....

And you have the nerve to obsequiously post, continually, about the need for censorship of ideas you do not like, cut and pasted from your daily email from your Lord Georg's more important minions.

It was obvious years ago that your TDS and illiberal mental disorder ruled all you post here.

 

[Confluence]

@Tibs - your beloved Democrats want to defund the popo and replace them with community something or another fairies.
if guns are outlawed right now, as you read this, then won't these community service fairies then be under-equipped to confront a school shooter, or do all guns magically ******* vanish off American soil when guns are banned? also, how do you intend to get guns from the gangs, and criminals? additionally, by banning guns, you're putting a good sized segment of the population out of business, thereby unable to pay taxes, which can also lead to bankruptcies and foreclosures.

Say, if you were going to get rid of all the guns, for whatever reason, wouldn't you be sure to get the ones the bad guys have, first?

 

[Confluence]

really? you've not said a word in disagreement with your party's desire to defund the popo.
notice, no one said disarm the popo - that's inserting something that wasn't said, stating it as a fact and arguing against it.

nice swerve and deflection, though.

so you want a disarmed population. gee, wonder if there's any history that we can draw upon to determine if this is a good or bad idea.

Supe, I'll take "Cambodian History" for $200

 

[Superman]

I am genuinely interested in how @Tibs proposes to make "tighter controls on semi-automatic weapons, high capacity ammo, background checks, crackdown on criminals & illegal weapons".

though i know that he doesnt have the intestinal fortitude to divulge that and as such have a conversation.

 

[Tibs]

I am genuinely interested in how @Tibs proposes to make "tighter controls on semi-automatic weapons, high capacity ammo, background checks, crackdown on criminals & illegal weapons".

Not *my* proposals. These will do.


H.R.4423 Gun Theft Prevention Act
To require firearms dealers to fulfill minimum security standards, require the ATF to inspect dealers every three years, and provide for more staffing to the ATF.

H.R. 3088 Untraceable Firearms Act
To prohibit the possession of any firearm that is undetectable by airport-level detection devices.

H.R. 2510 Keep Americans Safe Act
To limit ammunition magazines to no more than 10 rounds and prohibit their future production for civilian use.

H.R. 8 Bipartisan Background Checks Act
To require background checks on every gun sale or transfer.

H.R. 1752 COOL OFF Act
To require three-day waiting period before a person may receive a gun after making a purchase.

H.R. 748 Ethan’s Law
To allow for the injury or death of a minor resulting from unsafe storage of a firearm to be made a crime and punishable with prison time.

H.R. 1808 Assault Weapons Ban
To ban the sale, transfer, manufacture, and importation of military-style assault weapons and high capacity ammunition magazines.

H.R. 4118 Break the Cycle of Violence Act
To build safer, thriving communities and save lives by investing in effective, community-based violence reduction initiatives.

H.R. 3509 The Safe Gun Storage Act
To direct Consumer Product Safety Commission to establish firearm storage safety standards.

H.R. 3480 Extreme Risk Protection Act
To encourage states to enact extreme risk laws to support law enforcement and protect families.

H.R. 3929 Disarm Hate Act to Reduce Gun Violence and Prevent Hate Crimes
To ensure dangerous individuals are prohibited from purchasing or owning firearms.

H.R. 825 Gun Violence Prevention Research Act
To authorize the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to conduct critical, life-saving gun violence research.

H.R. 5678 Firearm Retailer Code of Conduct Act
To establish basic business practices and certification requirements for gun shop owners and employees.

H.R. 1560 Resources for Victims of Gun Violence Act
To establish an interagency advisory council that would gather and distribute resources for victims of gun violence.

 

[Superman]

Not *my* proposals. These will do.

@Tibs - I know you havent lived in this country for more than 2-3 decades, so humor my response to this:

H.R.4423 Gun Theft Prevention Act
To require firearms dealers to fulfill minimum security standards, require the ATF to inspect dealers every three years, and provide for more staffing to the ATF.

• More government power and oversight. Why? Have you ever been to a firearms dealer's warehouse or seen their inventory? I have and I speak from experience that it's harder to squeeze a free nickel out of Fort Knox than it is to get something out of those places. Why is that, you may ask - because firearms dealers are in the gun industry to turn a profit. It's why they have FFLs. An FFL is a government document that allows dealers to handle and distribute firearms to the population. Those with FFLs have undergone rigourous background checks - moreso than the gun buyer. Though this is not going to "prevent" any gun from being stolen. This is paperwork and "doing something" that is already being done.

H.R. 3088 Untraceable Firearms Act
To prohibit the possession of any firearm that is undetectable by airport-level detection devices.

• Isnt this already illegal? This seems redundant in the mere wording of it. In fact, it is nothing but a word salad in the form of a bill. Please, read on:
  
  
  
• This bill establishes a federal statutory framework to regulate the manufacture, sale, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, and receipt of ghost guns (i.e., guns without serial numbers).
  
  Additionally, the bill revises the federal statutory framework regulating the manufacture, possession, sale, import, shipment, delivery, receipt, and transfer of undetectable firearms. Among the revisions, the bill defines undetectable firearm as a firearm without a major component wholly made of detectable material.
  
  
• Keep in mind it's already illegal to file down/off serial numbers on a gun. And what is a "major component wholly made of detectable material"? Oh, that's those made from 3D printers. Which are not exactly trustworthy to shoot.
  

H.R. 2510 Keep Americans Safe Act
To limit ammunition magazines to no more than 10 rounds and prohibit their future production for civilian use.

This bill states:

This bill establishes a new criminal offense for the import, sale, manufacture, transfer, or possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device (LCAFD).

The bill does not prohibit certain conduct with respect to an LCAFD, including the following:

• importation, sale, manufacture, transfer, or possession related to certain law enforcement efforts, or authorized tests or experiments;
• importation, sale, transfer, or possession related to securing nuclear materials; and
• possession by a retired law enforcement officer.

The bill permits continued possession of, but prohibits sale or transfer of, a grandfathered LCAFD.

Newly manufactured LCAFDs must display serial number identification and the date of manufacture.

Additionally, the bill allows a state or local government to use Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Grant Program funds to compensate individuals who surrender an LCAFD under a buy-back program.

What it doesnt state is what specifically is a LCAFD. Specific. Not some generic pull from the wild blue sky any definition that meets your wants. Is large capacity 500? 1000? 50? 75? 10? Specifically what is large capacity? On its face it appears to be something, but it's another word salad that is meaningless and without a clear definition.

H.R. 8 Bipartisan Background Checks Act
To require background checks on every gun sale or transfer.

This bill states:

This bill establishes new background check requirements for firearm transfers between private parties (i.e., unlicensed individuals).

Specifically, it prohibits a firearm transfer between private parties unless a licensed gun dealer, manufacturer, or importer first takes possession of the firearm to conduct a background check.

The prohibition does not apply to certain firearm transfers or exchanges, such as a gift between spouses in good faith.

Now, specifically how is this going to work? I cannot say, sell my own personal handgun to you, @Tim Steelersfan, or anyone else without a background check... which puts more of this in government control. Creeps right into violation of the 4th Amendment ("The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects...from searches..."). And, again, how is this going to prevent anything? How is this bill going to even be enforced? Bloating government. More taxes. Again, it sounds great that it would or could potentially keep handguns off the street, but can we see how many private sales have occurred that led to a shooting? I do get that this is a way to circumvent the law that prohibits felons to owning a gun, but in doing so this is another redundant law/proposal.

H.R. 1752 COOL OFF Act
To require three-day waiting period before a person may receive a gun after making a purchase.

On it's face, I can agree with this.

This bill establishes a three-day waiting period for certain handgun transfers.

Specifically, the bill makes it unlawful for a licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer to sell or transfer a handgun to an unlicensed individual unless three business days have elapsed since the licensee initiated a background check. A violator is subject to criminal penalties—a fine, up to one year in prison, or both.

Additionally, the bill makes it unlawful for an unlicensed individual to receive a handgun from another unlicensed individual unless at least three business days have elapsed since the recipient most recently offered to take possession of the handgun. A violator is subject to criminal penalties—a fine, up to five years in prison, or both.

The three-day waiting period does not apply to certain handgun transfers, such as for a loan between spouses for a lawful purpose.

Yet all this is stating is that people will need to get a concealed carry license. Even though half the country does not or will not require any license for carrying a gun. This is called federal overreach.

https://www.statista.com/chart/20047/gun-carry-laws-in-us-states/

H.R. 748 Ethan’s Law
To allow for the injury or death of a minor resulting from unsafe storage of a firearm to be made a crime and punishable with prison time.

This bill states:

This bill establishes a framework to regulate the storage of firearms on residential premises at the federal, state, and tribal levels.

At the federal level, the bill establishes statutory requirements for firearms on residential premises to be safely stored if a minor is likely to gain access without permission or if a resident is ineligible to possess a firearm.

An individual who violates the requirements is subject to criminal penalties. A firearm stored in violation of the requirements is subject to seizure and forfeiture.

At the state and tribal levels, the bill requires the Department of Justice to award grants to implement functionally identical requirements for the safe storage of firearms.

Again, how is this going to be enforced? Will we now have peeping toms calling the popo on people leaving guns out of a safe? Again, exceedingly close to a 4th Amendment encroachment. ("The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects...from searches...")

H.R. 1808 Assault Weapons Ban
To ban the sale, transfer, manufacture, and importation of military-style assault weapons and high capacity ammunition magazines.
Before I even review this one, tell me the definition of an Assault Weapon. Clear and concise definition.

 

[Superman]

H.R. 4118 Break the Cycle of Violence Act
To build safer, thriving communities and save lives by investing in effective, community-based violence reduction initiatives.

This bill establishes federal grant programs and related entities to support violence intervention initiatives.

Specifically, the bill directs the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to award grants for coordinated community violence intervention initiatives in communities disproportionately impacted by homicides and community violence. HHS must also establish several related entities, including

• an Office of Community Violence Intervention to administer programs and activities related to violence intervention;
• the Community Violence Intervention Advisory Committee to advise and assist the office and HHS; and
• the National Community Violence Response Center to provide training and technical assistance, coordinate research, and develop data collection policies.

Additionally, the bill directs the Department of Labor to award grants for job training and workforce programs in communities disproportionately affected by gun violence to connect youth ages 16 to 24 to in-demand occupations.

"Violence intervention" - rather broad topic, ain't it? Sounds like they want to gentrify the poor communities to allow for playgrounds, basketball courts, etc so that kids have things to do and stay out of trouble. All while finding them jobs, which would also keep them out of trouble.

Nice idea and one that can be done - but how will you keep the money going where it is supposed to, without politicians grifting from those funds? Also, how will this be paid? More taxes? More bloated government? Why not just push for more family-based initiatives so that kids grow up with both parents? Again, another meaningless word salad.

H.R. 3509 The Safe Gun Storage Act
To direct Consumer Product Safety Commission to establish firearm storage safety standards.

• This is redundant and another "doing something" idea.

H.R. 3480 Extreme Risk Protection Act
To encourage states to enact extreme risk laws to support law enforcement and protect families.

• LOL - from the same party that wants to defund the popo, remove firearms from homes and thus make families and people more vulnerable to criminals??

H.R. 3929 Disarm Hate Act to Reduce Gun Violence and Prevent Hate Crimes
To ensure dangerous individuals are prohibited from purchasing or owning firearms.

The bill expands the categories of persons who are prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm.

Specifically, it prohibits firearm sale or transfer to and receipt, possession, shipment, or transport by a person (1) who has been convicted of a misdemeanor hate crime, or (2) who has received an enhanced hate crime misdemeanor sentence.

This is - at its face a nice idea - but you can just look at the past decade to see that the definition of hate crime has been modified, changed, altered and neglected to be charged, enforced or even acknowledged depending on the particular person perpetuating the crime. Another word salad that sounds good, but has no teeth.

H.R. 825 Gun Violence Prevention Research Act
To authorize the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to conduct critical, life-saving gun violence research.

This bill authorizes the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to conduct or support research on firearms safety or gun violence prevention.

Taxpayer wasted money. This data and information can already be retrieved from the internet that Al Gore created while melting ice bergs with his private jets.

H.R. 5678 Firearm Retailer Code of Conduct Act
To establish basic business practices and certification requirements for gun shop owners and employees.
ummm.... review this on your end, Sparky. No such thing is currently being considered. It was last reviewed in 2022.

H.R. 1560 Resources for Victims of Gun Violence Act
To establish an interagency advisory council that would gather and distribute resources for victims of gun violence.

This bill establishes the Advisory Council to Support Victims of Gun Violence.

Among other things, the advisory council must assess the needs of victims of gun violence and disseminate information about helpful resources.

"assess the needs of victims of gun violence"
if that doesnt just SCREAM to push more money in politicians' pockets, then what does?

 

[suncitysteel]

I can't believe I'm saying this but, when I see the wild youth in the streets, rioting, looting, violence, I think maybe a little dose of Sharia law or China-like law would set their a$$es straight. Unfortunately, it's a terrible system under which everyone suffers.

Is the Scared Straight program still around? You know, the intervention program from back in the 80s for problem teens well on their way to a life of recidivism, where they were taken to prisons to face hardened convicts who'd try to "scare" them "straight".

That's when it pays to have invested heavily in, ahem, a family protection plan. And anyone who infringes on that plan can go f the hell off. May they overrun your place first.

Family Protection Plan...

Me: "I'll take your bundled plan"

"Frontier towns by and large prohibited the “carrying of dangerous weapons of any type, concealed or otherwise, by persons other than law enforcement officers.
Let's get back to this true & tested, great American tradition.

How's this "tried & tested great American tradition" working out in Chicago? You know, where gun regulations are some of the most restrictive in the nation?

 

[Confluence]

But Supe, how can Tibtard possibly respond to your quick and thoughtfull criticisms, bill by bill, when he just did the cut/paste thing from an email/website?

I do not think he can enter into a meaningful discussion on the actual facts, unless he gets it spoonfed by his Lord Georg or minions.

You should give him permission to cut/paste your responses so that he can email them upward to someone capable of responding.

 

[Tibs]

On it's face, I can agree with this.

Glad we've found some common ground.

Let me ask you this. What, if anything, can be done to address rising gun violence?

Are you comfortable with the amount of mass shootings - and school shootings - happening across America?

Thanks, and kudos for taking the time to respond to the various pieces of legislature sitting in Congress, gathering dust.

 

[Superman]

Glad we've found some common ground.

Let me ask you this. What, if anything, can be done to address rising gun violence?

Are you comfortable with the amount of mass shootings - and school shootings - happening across America?

Thanks, and kudos for taking the time to respond to the various pieces of legislature sitting in Congress, gathering dust.

what can be done?

well, first off, you need to look at the data being reported. not the pie charts, graphs, etc
a lot of the data is not the same as the category being placed in.

we've said this before - and will continue saying it - suicide is the foremost leading driver of "gun violence". I don't have the numbers handy, and its irrelevant to do so, but there's something like 70% of "gun violence" as suicides. While suicide is awful and hurts more people than just the person killing themselves, its not beyond the imagination to consider that someone who puts a gun to their head would not find another way to go out if guns were not available. Suicide by gun is the quickest and "easiest" for them - as awful as it is.

Then with the absolute number remaining, look at that data. it's been broken down here before, and likely will again. Mass shootings are not what the average person considers a mass shooting. Just the two words together conjure mental images of a person with a gun blazing, pushing out bullet after bullet while that person screams in glee. Yet that's not what it is. 2-3 people shot is a "mass shooting".

I cannot get to the site you retrieved your screen shot from:
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Though the stats they have cannot be much different than here:

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/security-safety/crime-and-justice/firearms/firearm-deaths/

So we should want to focus on homicide, since that is really what this is about, despite all the other numbers thrown in.

And as has been stated before, if you remove the homicides by gun from the biggest cities in this country - suddenly the nation falls far, far behind other countries. So "gun violence" is an urban thing, mostly. Who populates those environments the most? Then focus on where most of these homicides occur, as it is completely and totally impossible to prevent every homicide situation. The inner city is where most occur. Why is that? What is causing this? What can be done?

As one of the bills you posted said, to present options for the younger crowd and detour them from a life of crime/incarceration would be most beneficial. Yet, in all seriousness, do we want to trust the goobermint to resolve this? "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" - still scary today.

 

[Iron95]

Glad we've found some common ground.

Let me ask you this. What, if anything, can be done to address rising gun violence?

Are you comfortable with the amount of mass shootings - and school shootings - happening across America?

Thanks, and kudos for taking the time to respond to the various pieces of legislature sitting in Congress, gathering dust.

I know I am not the one you asked, but better mental health is a must.

 

[Tibs]

Thanks for the responses, Superman & Iron95.