Immigration Crisis at the border

[Roy92040]

Sounds like someone is calling for a lot of un-American activity.


Sent from my iPad using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Spike]

Democrats = The La Raza Party

Republicans = The American Party


Majority of voters blame parents, not Trump administration, for child separation at border

A majority of voters blame the parents of the separated children at the southwestern border for the current immigration crisis, not the federal government, according to a new poll.

“When families are arrested and separated after attempting to enter the United States illegally, 54 percent of likely U.S. voters say the parents are more to blame for breaking the law,” says a Rasmussen Reports survey released Thursday.

“A closer look shows that 82 percent of Republicans and 56 percent of voters not affiliated with either major political party feel the parents are more to blame for breaking the law. But 60 percent of Democrats say the government is more to blame for enforcing the law,” the poll said.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/21/majority-of-voters-blame-parents-not-the-federal-g/

 

[Buster]

Democrats = The La Raza Party

Republicans = The American Party


Majority of voters blame parents, not Trump administration, for child separation at border

A majority of voters blame the parents of the separated children at the southwestern border for the current immigration crisis, not the federal government, according to a new poll.

“When families are arrested and separated after attempting to enter the United States illegally, 54 percent of likely U.S. voters say the parents are more to blame for breaking the law,” says a Rasmussen Reports survey released Thursday.

“A closer look shows that 82 percent of Republicans and 56 percent of voters not affiliated with either major political party feel the parents are more to blame for breaking the law. But 60 percent of Democrats say the government is more to blame for enforcing the law,” the poll said.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/21/majority-of-voters-blame-parents-not-the-federal-g/

Of course. It is the minority who have nothing productive to do that shout their message the loudest and get the media attention.

 

[Steeltime]

LOL, always a sure sign of your mental depravity that you point to your alt-right heroes Orban & Putin as they're ******* **** up elsewhere in the world as if that somehow makes Trump's policies more palatable or legitimate. Everyone knows you hate democracy & freedom of the press and wish to live under an oppressive State regime run by your deranged King.

Because he wants to actually enforce our border security and laws? Seriously, Tibs, that is all this is about - securing our borders.

Further, only a liar would dispute the fact that if these illegals were likely to register as Republicans in coming years, Obama and Biden would have built the ******* wall in 2009.

 

[JMM]

Of course. It is the minority who have nothing productive to do that shout their message the loudest and get the media attention.

A mouse fart is loud enough to get the media's attention, so long as the mouse is a Democrat.

 

[Steeltime]

Before you call anyone a dumb ****, you might want to check your own facts. There is no stipulation that immigrant children be separated from their parents.

During the Obama administration, immigrant children who were not accompanied by parents (older children) were detained. That’s very different than toddlers being separated from their parents. It is you who is buying into spin.

You are wrong, Trog. I posted the a fairly recent 9th Circuit opinion holding that the most recent immigration laws did NOT change the existing settlement/order, mandating that minors (accompanied or unaccompanied - read what I posted earlier) not be held for more than 20 days (a number reached in further litigation/settlement). If the government wishes to prosecute the parent for illegal entry (they do, and the parents indeed entered illegally), then the children cannot be put in captivity with the parents.

Read the case I cited, Trog.

If the parents were genuinely concerned about separation, they could agree to be deported and be re-united with children RIGHT NOW. But I guess American taxpayers should have more concern for these kids THAN THEIR PARENTS, and pay to house and take care of them until the immigration proceedings grind to a conclusion and the parents are sent home - with their kids.

 

[IndySteel]

Schumer and Pelosi are pathetic. Keep calling them out, Trump.

President Donald Trump continued criticizing Democrats on Thursday for refusing to support any Republican-led immigration reform legislation.
“We need two to tango,” Trump said during a Cabinet meeting, citing the Democratic filibuster in the Senate that was blocking any legislation from moving forward.

The president called for a new effort on immigration, inviting them to the White House to discuss more details with this problem the country has faced for 50 years.

“They don’t care about the children. They don’t care about the injury. They don’t care about the problems. All they do is obstruct,” Trump said about the current crisis at the border.

Trump’s comments come as the House of Representatives prepares to vote on two immigration proposals offering amnesty to children of illegal immigrants in exchange for border security funding and visa lottery reforms.

He ripped Democrats for refusing to participate in any deal on immigration.

“Their policies stink. They are no good. They have no ideas. They have no nothing. All they can do is obstruct,” he said.

Trump indicated he would be willing to support a narrower bill that would address the problem of family separation.

He said he was “ready, willing, and able” to sign any kind of bill Congress could get passed.

 

[deljzc]

Schumer and Pelosi are pathetic. Keep calling them out, Trump.

President Donald Trump continued criticizing Democrats on Thursday for refusing to support any Republican-led immigration reform legislation.
“We need two to tango,” Trump said during a Cabinet meeting, citing the Democratic filibuster in the Senate that was blocking any legislation from moving forward.

The president called for a new effort on immigration, inviting them to the White House to discuss more details with this problem the country has faced for 50 years.

“They don’t care about the children. They don’t care about the injury. They don’t care about the problems. All they do is obstruct,” Trump said about the current crisis at the border.

Trump’s comments come as the House of Representatives prepares to vote on two immigration proposals offering amnesty to children of illegal immigrants in exchange for border security funding and visa lottery reforms.

He ripped Democrats for refusing to participate in any deal on immigration.

“Their policies stink. They are no good. They have no ideas. They have no nothing. All they can do is obstruct,” he said.

Trump indicated he would be willing to support a narrower bill that would address the problem of family separation.

He said he was “ready, willing, and able” to sign any kind of bill Congress could get passed.

Sounds an awful a lot like the liberals on this board. Nothing to add. No compromise. No discussion. Just name calling and "How could you be so cruel!?" fake tears....

 

[Superman]

with such an uptick in the number of people seeking asylum, we have to wonder why, suddenly, are these people seeking asylum instead of coming here legally.
we also have to review these people to see if they've tried coming here prior, received a misdemeanor and were deported.
that, in itself, takes time to review.
then, add in the massive number of people coming to the border instead of to a US Consulate and seeking asylum.
there are a LOT of questions raised. We're not talking about 15-20 people/families coming here per week, either.
additionally, with the "families" coming here, isn't it just to ensure that these people are all related, and that the kids were not kidnapped or coached up to call the adults mommy/daddy?

though, i do wonder why the LGBTQQK2JPRUNBASWEABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ isn't screaming for their queerthren to come across the border.
in fact, I've never seen a single member of the alphabet community attempt to cross the border. isn't that interesting?

further, these people attempting to come here are proving Trump correct. as are the people up in arms about the immigration laws.
these people are 100% coming from shithole countries who see this country as being better than where they were or are coming from.

it's a goddamn wonder the left even wants them here, citing that.

****, if that was dropped by Trump or Sanders in a Press Conference, there would be so many Caterpillars on the border moving dirt and concrete that the plants in Illinois would be on a hiring spree and the stock would shoot through the roof.

 

[Tibs]

with such an uptick in the number of people seeking asylum, we have to wonder why, suddenly, are these people seeking asylum instead of coming here legally.

I wonder if the long term solution may be working closer with Mexico, trying to help them solve their issues (crime, drugs et al). May be money well spent. If I'd build a wall or border fence anywhere, it would be deep down along Mexico's southern border. That's what the EU does w Hungary. The wall/industrial fence serves as the outer border of the Shengen zone, thus enforcing it makes sense for all of Europe. And the costs are split accordingly. If the Mexicans had tighter border control that could help solve - or at least limit - inflow from central American, Nicaragua, El Salvador, etc.. Seems right now most anyone can just waltz right through Mexico with impunity.

I'd also work with Mexico (and other countries) on implementing better, more efficient foreign worker programs for agriculture, food services, etc.. Given the labor shortages, makes no sense to not figure out a legitimate way for migrants to come and work legally, to support their families and provide much needed services. Whatever they have on the books now needs to be improved significantly, with this many illegals coming over. This would not involve citizenship or anything close to it. Just have better, broader migrant labor agreements between two neighboring countries.

As far as detaining illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, what I ask for is we find a decent, humane way to handle the families involved, especially women and children. Our basic humanity can't escape us, because we're dealing with immigrants. To say they're all criminals - their crime being crossing the border illegally - is a pretty harsh representation of the facts. It dehumanizes them. It is unbecoming of any decent person to speak of others like that, generalizing large groups of people. That's a huge point of contention for me with Trump, how sadistic he is in describing these people. It's like he has spit & venom coming out of his mouth, so much hatred. That sucks, coming from the President of the United States. Say what you want about past presidents, we've never had one this crude and cynical.

Dealing with crime and criminals, MS13, smugglers, drug dealers, that's a separate issue for me that should be dealt with forcefully. Here too I'd work much closer with and give more support to Mexican police and border control. Negotiate the terms to create a joint border force, have much closer cooperation on surveillance, apprehension. Would seem to me the most effective way and keeps things in equilibrium at the border, for both sides.

A physical wall could help on certain stretches, but the length of the border is outrageous. Seems we'd be playing wack-a-mole with smugglers and would take forever to build, at great cost. May have been a good idea in the 14th century, lugging huge stone slabs around with horses. Not saying it shouldn't be done, just not sure how practical it is in this day and age.

Del asks for solutions. I don't have any, so go ahead and ridicule me. My simplistic answer would be to work more closely with Mexico economically and tackle criminal/drug/illegals issues with a joint border security force.

 

[Roy92040]

Democrats = The La Raza Party

Republicans = The American Party


Majority of voters blame parents, not Trump administration, for child separation at border

A majority of voters blame the parents of the separated children at the southwestern border for the current immigration crisis, not the federal government, according to a new poll.

“When families are arrested and separated after attempting to enter the United States illegally, 54 percent of likely U.S. voters say the parents are more to blame for breaking the law,” says a Rasmussen Reports survey released Thursday.

“A closer look shows that 82 percent of Republicans and 56 percent of voters not affiliated with either major political party feel the parents are more to blame for breaking the law. But 60 percent of Democrats say the government is more to blame for enforcing the law,” the poll said.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/21/majority-of-voters-blame-parents-not-the-federal-g/

I've noticed that most of the parents seem to only be the mothers of the children. How are we to believe that this is not going to be an economic drain on our society? Oh yeah the mother is going to immediately find a job making beds at your nearest Motel 6.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

I wonder if the long term solution may be working closer with Mexico, trying to help them solve their issues (crime, drugs et al). May be money well spent. If I'd build a wall or border fence anywhere, it would be deep down along Mexico's southern border. That's what the EU does w Hungary. The wall/industrial fence serves as the outer border of the Shengen zone, thus enforcing it makes sense for all of Europe. And the costs are split accordingly. If the Mexicans had tighter border control that could help solve - or at least limit - inflow from central American, Nicaragua, El Salvador, etc.. Seems right now most anyone can just waltz right through Mexico with impunity.

I'd also work with Mexico (and other countries) on implementing better, more efficient foreign worker programs for agriculture, food services, etc.. Given the labor shortages, makes no sense to not figure out a legitimate way for migrants to come and work legally, to support their families and provide much needed services. Whatever they have on the books now needs to be improved significantly, with this many illegals coming over. This would not involve citizenship or anything close to it. Just have better, broader migrant labor agreements between two neighboring countries.

As far as detaining illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, what I ask for is we find a decent, humane way to handle the families involved, especially women and children. Our basic humanity can't escape us, because we're dealing with immigrants. To say they're all criminals - their crime being crossing the border illegally - is a pretty harsh representation of the facts. It dehumanizes them. It is unbecoming of any decent person to speak of others like that, generalizing large groups of people. That's a huge point of contention for me with Trump, how sadistic he is in describing these people. It's like he has spit & venom coming out of his mouth, so much hatred. That sucks, coming from the President of the United States. Say what you want about past presidents, we've never had one this crude and cynical.

Dealing with crime and criminals, MS13, smugglers, drug dealers, that's a separate issue for me that should be dealt with forcefully. Here too I'd work much closer with and give more support to Mexican police and border control. Negotiate the terms to create a joint border force, have much closer cooperation on surveillance, apprehension. Would seem to me the most effective way and keeps things in equilibrium at the border, for both sides.

A physical wall could help on certain stretches, but the length of the border is outrageous. Seems we'd be playing wack-a-mole with smugglers and would take forever to build, at great cost. May have been a good idea in the 14th century, lugging huge stone slabs around with horses. Not saying it shouldn't be done, just not sure how practical it is in this day and age.

Del asks for solutions. I don't have any, so go ahead and ridicule me. My simplistic answer would be to work more closely with Mexico economically and tackle criminal/drug/illegals issues with a joint border security force.

Thank you, that is a post I can work with and debate about reasonably. I have said for decades our solution in Mexico is to help them set up real labor laws and better criminal justice system and police. Reduce crime and do what we did in the past unionize there. While I feel that private unions here are more bad than good, they did serve a purpose at point in our history. That is what Mexico needs to keep people from wanting to leave the country. I don't want to subsidize this process but we can certainly help. Modernization of labor, police and infrastructure would go a long way towards making Mexico a livable place. Also they need to grow a spine and end the cartels.

Why don't liberals go where they are needed like they did here in the past to protect workers. Here they look for problems that don't exist or try to create new ones. There are many parts of the world where these problems actually exist so go fix them!

 

[deljzc]

Mexico is in deep trouble that I'm not sure the U.S. can or should fix.

I heard on NPR that since last November 120+ elected or running politicians have been murdered before this fall's upcoming elections. Can you imagine that in this country at all? One hundred and twenty!

We talked about this when we debated funding the wall. We send $300 million in aid to Mexico PER YEAR of which about 1/4th is for their supposedly "fight against drugs" and that's not doing anyone any good. If the politicians are all paid for and protected by the crime lords, sending the government money is the same as sending the cartels money. Yet when many here debated spending $10 billion on a wall, Tibs and his ilk say it's "wasting money". Again, no sense of scale in the big picture. Only emotions that say "WALL BAD, GIFT GOOD".

And Mexico already HAS a southern border wall. Hell, many here debated you Tibs when you defended the Mexican President vs. Trump on this very subject. President Nieto was complaining about us building our wall while all the while building HIS WALL. Yet you said nothing during that debate Tibs either. Just told us we were all wrong to want to build a wall. Maybe this current "crisis" (and I laugh at that current language because this problem has existed for two decades) has finally woken some of you liberals up that illegal crossings into this country are a big ******* problem with the only real solution is finding ways to prevent them and reduce attempts. Because dealing with them once they cross the border is a fiasco, especially if we have to treat them better than we treat our own homeless because "we are cruel otherwise" liberal whining gets all the media's attention.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I wonder if the long term solution may be working closer with Mexico, trying to help them solve their issues (crime, drugs et al). May be money well spent. If I'd build a wall or border fence anywhere, it would be deep down along Mexico's southern border. That's what the EU does w Hungary. The wall/industrial fence serves as the outer border of the Shengen zone, thus enforcing it makes sense for all of Europe. And the costs are split accordingly. If the Mexicans had tighter border control that could help solve - or at least limit - inflow from central American, Nicaragua, El Salvador, etc.. Seems right now most anyone can just waltz right through Mexico with impunity.

I'd also work with Mexico (and other countries) on implementing better, more efficient foreign worker programs for agriculture, food services, etc.. Given the labor shortages, makes no sense to not figure out a legitimate way for migrants to come and work legally, to support their families and provide much needed services. Whatever they have on the books now needs to be improved significantly, with this many illegals coming over. This would not involve citizenship or anything close to it. Just have better, broader migrant labor agreements between two neighboring countries.

As far as detaining illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, what I ask for is we find a decent, humane way to handle the families involved, especially women and children. Our basic humanity can't escape us, because we're dealing with immigrants. To say they're all criminals - their crime being crossing the border illegally - is a pretty harsh representation of the facts. It dehumanizes them. It is unbecoming of any decent person to speak of others like that, generalizing large groups of people. That's a huge point of contention for me with Trump, how sadistic he is in describing these people. It's like he has spit & venom coming out of his mouth, so much hatred. That sucks, coming from the President of the United States. Say what you want about past presidents, we've never had one this crude and cynical.

Dealing with crime and criminals, MS13, smugglers, drug dealers, that's a separate issue for me that should be dealt with forcefully. Here too I'd work much closer with and give more support to Mexican police and border control. Negotiate the terms to create a joint border force, have much closer cooperation on surveillance, apprehension. Would seem to me the most effective way and keeps things in equilibrium at the border, for both sides.

A physical wall could help on certain stretches, but the length of the border is outrageous. Seems we'd be playing wack-a-mole with smugglers and would take forever to build, at great cost. May have been a good idea in the 14th century, lugging huge stone slabs around with horses. Not saying it shouldn't be done, just not sure how practical it is in this day and age.

Del asks for solutions. I don't have any, so go ahead and ridicule me. My simplistic answer would be to work more closely with Mexico economically and tackle criminal/drug/illegals issues with a joint border security force.

Not a bad post and I won't debate all of the points, many of which I agree with.

But I will ask, how does this work for other illegals coming THROUGH Mexico to the USA?

There is a fundamental problem with Mexico allowing and funneling illegals from other countries through Mexico into the USA. They don't work to stop it. They don't care to stop it. Dare I say I believe they are rewarded for allowing it to happen.

So this isn't as simple as focusing on Mexico and Mexico's economy. It's Mexico's entire government and police force that need an overhaul. They are the underground railroad for illegal immigration into the USA.

Your suggestions could be a part of a start, but this problem goes well beyond.

 

[deljzc]

Tibs, also as far as "sending more money to Mexico", that was Obama's policy.

Here is the website of Aid to Mexico by year:

https://www.foreignassistance.gov/explore/country/Mexico

The last year of Bush (2007) was $65M... then Obama got into office and look what happens:

2008 - $405M
2009 - $432M
2010 - $757M
2011 - $262M
2012 - $413M
2013 - $265M
2014 - $210M
2015 - $165M
2016 - $160M
2017 (Trump) - $138M
2018 (Trump) - $87M (planned)

So I ask Tibs, in your opinion did that IMMENSE increase in aid to Mexico help anything? If anything, the violence and criminal element and corruption in their government/cartels has gotten WORSE over the last decade. If you want to debate, let's debate. I see those statistics and my logical conclusion is "sending more aid to Mexico does not help". Do you agree or disagree?

And per capita, we actually send MORE aid to Guatamala, Honduras and El Salvador as well. Again, that money was more during Obama than what Trump/Congress now propose and I have a hard time arguing with them when we have gained so little for our investment.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Thank you, that is a post I can work with and debate about reasonably. I have said for decades our solution in Mexico is to help them set up real labor laws and better criminal justice system and police. Reduce crime and do what we did in the past unionize there. While I feel that private unions here are more bad than good, they did serve a purpose at point in our history. That is what Mexico needs to keep people from wanting to leave the country. I don't want to subsidize this process but we can certainly help. Modernization of labor, police and infrastructure would go a long way towards making Mexico a livable place. Also they need to grow a spine and end the cartels.

Why don't liberals go where they are needed like they did here in the past to protect workers. Here they look for problems that don't exist or try to create new ones. There are many parts of the world where these problems actually exist so go fix them!

Mexico sadly, is 10 times as corrupt as Washington DC. I'm not sure anything short of annexing them as our 51st state will cure that.
Oh, and a little something for the asylum seekers.

 

[Tibs]

I see those statistics and my logical conclusion is "sending more aid to Mexico does not help". Do you agree or disagree?

Based on those figures, it seems you are correct. I wonder what that money was sent for, what type of joint projects and levels of cooperation were implemented, or was it just a blank check, here is money, do with it what you want.

And per capita, we actually send MORE aid to Guatamala, Honduras and El Salvador as well. Again, that money was more during Obama than what Trump/Congress now propose and I have a hard time arguing with them when we have gained so little for our investment.

Again, I agree throwing money at the problem is not a viable solution. I suggested working out a new strategy of cooperation, specific border projects, etc not simply sending money with nothing attached. So it seems we agree on this aspect of it.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

People are crossing the border illegally so we need to "help" Mexico. No. That is a typical liberal reaction, along the lines of blaming poverty for inner city crime and looking to tax dollars to "fix' the wrong root cause. I also chuckle at the idea of making new immigration laws while the current ones are being ignored. The fix isn't to somehow make the criminals not want to commit the crime, or change the laws so its easier to not break the law. Enforcement is the only first step that makes sense. If we could train the idiot left to understand the difference between legal immigration and illegal border crossing, and understand why countries have to control their borders, that would help; but it seems unlikely so we just need to forge ahead.

 

[RollRed]

The ******** here are the parents who break the law. Families are broken up every day when some idiot mom or dad goes to jail. No outrage about that?

Many of the “********” to which you are referring are just people trying to get themselves and their families out of danger. Try to put yourself in their shoes for a minute.... if you can. Imagine how bad things would have to get that you would rather just gather up your children with nothing but the clothes on your backs and start trekking north for hundreds and hundreds of miles instead of staying where you are.... not even being sure that you’re gonna get in once you get there.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Many of the “********” to which you are referring are just people trying to get themselves and their families out of danger. Try to put yourself in their shoes for a minute.... if you can. Imagine how bad things would have to get that you would rather just gather up your children with nothing but the clothes on your backs and start trekking north for hundreds and hundreds of miles instead of staying where you are.... not even being sure that you’re gonna get in once you get there.

There are procedures for asylum, and the majority of the illegal entries are not about fleeing danger. A lot of people in jail feel like they had good reason for committing the crime. This is like all crimes, people do it because they think they can get away with it and they don't fear the consequences, and a lot of that comes from liberal left in this country. You know, people who make up a sad story and then try to characterize the whole problem that way to make it seem cruel to enforce immigration laws.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Based on those figures, it seems you are correct. I wonder what that money was sent for, what type of joint projects and levels of cooperation were implemented, or was it just a blank check, here is money, do with it what you want.

Again, I agree throwing money at the problem is not a viable solution. I suggested working out a new strategy of cooperation, specific border projects, etc not simply sending money with nothing attached. So it seems we agree on this aspect of it.

We could eliminate those programs and use the money to pay for the wall.

There are procedures for asylum, and the majority of the illegal entries are not about fleeing danger. A lot of people in jail feel like they had good reason for committing the crime. This is like all crimes, people do it because they think they can get away with it and they don't fear the consequences, and a lot of that comes from liberal left in this country. You know, people who make up a sad story and then try to characterize the whole problem that way to make it seem cruel to enforce immigration laws.

You can get asylum if you are being persecuted for whatever reason. Well, unless you're a Christian in Syria and Bomma is President. Simply being an economic refugee because your home country is a shithole does not qualify as asylum. Of course everyone in Central and South America is coached to say they need asylum.

 

[83fan]

We could eliminate those programs and use the money to pay for the wall.



You can get asylum if you are being persecuted for whatever reason. Well, unless you're a Christian in Syria and Bomma is President. Simply being an economic refugee because your home country is a shithole does not qualify as asylum. Of course everyone in Central and South America is coached to say they need asylum.

I only have one question...what happened to Mexico paying for the wall as promised in his campaign?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I only have one question...what happened to Mexico paying for the wall as promised in his campaign?

It's easily doable a number of ways. Tariffs, a tax on money transfers to Mexico which is a huge part of their GDP, top it with solar panels to appease the greenies and sell the electricity to Mexico.

 

[Sarge]

It's easily doable a number of ways. Tariffs, a tax on money transfers to Mexico which is a huge part of their GDP, top it with solar panels to appease the greenies and sell the electricity to Mexico.

Better sell it to California. Isn't it about the time of year that the rolling blackouts start in earnest out there?

 

[83fan]

It's easily doable a number of ways. Tariffs, a tax on money transfers to Mexico which is a huge part of their GDP, top it with solar panels to appease the greenies and sell the electricity to Mexico.

But is this happening? If that's going to happen then fine, but I don't want to be responsible paying for a wall. We're going to Mexico in a few weeks, a place I love. We have good, kind friends there and I just can't wait to hear what their opinions are (or maybe I can wait) and what their news is there. You know what side of the aisle I'm on and I'm good with that, but my wish is that the pubs and dems get their **** together, quit the fighting and figure it out. They're the ones with the experience in this stuff. It's a complex issue that W and Obama couldn't fix. The pics of those kids killed me then as they do now. I like what Tibs said, which is more of a solution than I could ever come up with, then again it's not our jobs.