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Kenny states he "learned nothing" from the sidelines in Cinci game.

Nobody in their right mind thinks Mason Rudolph can have two good games in a row. Everyone will be crying for a healthy Kenny come the Ravens game.
 
My point is, that some guy's take longer to make it then others and I do understand that a large number of QB's just never get there at the pro level. But to call someone a bust or say that he is never going to make it in just a year and a half into their pro career, especially under these conditions, is ridiculous. He deserves more time to prove himself. If it turns out that he not going to get any better than it is what it is. But I would hate to give up on him after this short of time, have him go someplace else and become a franchise QB. And no one can set here and say that he will never be a franchise QB after only a year and a half of playing time, nobody can possibly know that yet! Just for the record, I did not want them to pick KP, I wanted them to wait another year for a what I thought was a better crop of QB's coming out of college. Just think if Knoll would have given up on Bradshaw after just one and a half years of playing. Would we have 4 super bowl wins or had been the team of the decade in the 70's? Probably not, be careful of what you wish for. People need to get out of that "we should be in the super bowl every year" thought process. It's Dam hard to get to a super bowl in the NFL let alone win it! especially with the "me first" attitude a fair number of these young players today have. The game has changed so much, I miss the old days, when tackle football was tackle football! When you could hit the QB without a flag being thrown just about every time you do it. The game is driven by all the money made off of fantasy football now and it's going to ruin this sport, if it hasn't already.
 
BLITZ said:
Still want him to succeed and be our franchise QB. Would love it if Mason kills it this week. whomever is our QB I want them to do well. I think most on here are like that
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Of course I'd like to see all our draft picks to succeed, especially 1st rounders. But Kenny is just not on that path, whether I want him to be or not. And if he wants to throw a hissy fit on being benched, after sucking incredibly awful, then that's just too bad. And he's 25 yo going on 26, not some 21 yo just out of college, which everyone treats him as. It would be a great idea if he chose to grow up about right now. He ain't "big man on campus" anymore. But his fragility may be causing him to fear contact too much for him to become a legit starting NFL QB - causing him to not really look at the entire field and find an open man. Kenny locks onto one target and that's it; you can't be a legit NFL QB operating in such a manner.
 
Arcticmanzr said:
My point is, that some guy's take longer to make it then others and I do understand that a large number of QB's just never get there at the pro level. But to call someone a bust or say that he is never going to make it in just a year and a half into their pro career, especially under these conditions, is ridiculous. He deserves more time to prove himself. If it turns out that he not going to get any better than it is what it is. But I would hate to give up on him after this short of time, have him go someplace else and become a franchise QB. And no one can set here and say that he will never be a franchise QB after only a year and a half of playing time, nobody can possibly know that yet! Just for the record, I did not want them to pick KP, I wanted them to wait another year for a what I thought was a better crop of QB's coming out of college. Just think if Knoll would have given up on Bradshaw after just one and a half years of playing. Would we have 4 super bowl wins or had been the team of the decade in the 70's? Probably not, be careful of what you wish for. People need to get out of that "we should be in the super bowl every year" thought process. It's Dam hard to get to a super bowl in the NFL let alone win it! especially with the "me first" attitude a fair number of these young players today have. The game has changed so much, I miss the old days, when tackle football was tackle football! When you could hit the QB without a flag being thrown just about every time you do it. The game is driven by all the money made off of fantasy football now and it's going to ruin this sport, if it hasn't already.
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People seeing Kenny's play as not acceptable are not all "We need to win the SB every year" types, not even close. Nor are we driven by fantasy football #s. We are simply fans who can spot a decent QB and can see obvious signs when a QB doesn't have "it."Kenny isn't some 21 yo kids just out of college; he's a 25 yo who has been through two camps, an off-season and well over a season of play. Experts often cite a QB's 2nd season, after Thanksgiving, as the time when a payer will show if he's gonna cut it in the NFL. Well, Thanksgiving has come and went, and Kenny still sucks. There is just no disputing that, his #s are in the cellar. In most metrics, he's worse than the 32nd QB in the NFL, there are only 32 teams.

Went to blame the horrific OC and offense-deflating head coach? Sure, that's part of it. But is it really "all" of the explanation for the repellent QB play? The weak OL play?

Well, how about this? How about plays where Kenny does have time to pass? They exist yea know? How about pays where he does have time to read the field, and there ARE open receivers? What about those plays? We've all seen them, what happens at those times?

1.) He locks onto only one target, and refuses to read the rest of the field, telegraphing where he is going to throw and the target is tightly covered. That's one option of what Kenny does.

2.) He takes off running for his life, before he really needs to and almost never finds an open player afterwards.

3.) He actually finds an open target but misfires and radically under- or over-shoots his pass to an open receiver.

That's actually what Kenny does, this QB you're defending. Is there any reason for his historically low success rate in TD passes? In passing yards? He's at the cellar of the league in both, and no, it can't all be blamed on an incompetent OC and/or head coach who suffers from pee-your-pants turnover fears. Kenny himself is a large part of the cause for our offensive futility. And he can be as angry as he wants to about it, but he's angry at the wrong people: Try being mad at yourself or God.
 
If Kenny is so bad how did he have one of the highest 4th Q ratings in the league along with being at the top or near the top in game winning drives? I think he was playing more freely in those situations and not as hindered by terrible coaching. Look at the bomb to Pickens in the Ravens game. Canada looked disgusted at that play. Pickett also usually only has time to look at one WR. The common theme in the Cincy games is we held the pass rush in check.
 
Steelmann said:
Well. Plus the fact their defense is atrocious. Any good defense turns Kenny into pudding. At least,so far.
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And for all the hoopla of Kenny's play that game, he put up 16 points; nothing to write home about. Mason gouged them for 30+.
 
Greg Lloyd said:
And for all the hoopla of Kenny's play that game, he put up 16 points; nothing to write home about. Mason gouged them for 30+.
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So ******* sick of this argument. I don't know how many times it needs brought up...DJ dropped a prefectly thrown TD pass, and the very next play Warren fumbled. That's points off the board right there.

Their first drive started off with a bullet to Muth in the middle of the field, then a 3 yard run, an attempted WR screen to DJ that went for -5 yards.

Meanwhile Mason throws a simple slant to Pickens (who was limited in practice the first Bengals game with a shin injury), the safety takes one of the worst angles possible, and not only misses Pickens but takes out his own player.

Mason didn't make that play happen, poor defense did. Mason got lucky that was his first pass. The numbers for Pickett and Mason against the Bengals weren't that different. The Bengals were actually missing MORE players from their d in the second game.
 
insaniti said:
So ******* sick of this argument. I don't know how many times it needs brought up...DJ dropped a prefectly thrown TD pass, and the very next play Warren fumbled. That's points off the board right there.

Their first drive started off with a bullet to Muth in the middle of the field, then a 3 yard run, an attempted WR screen to DJ that went for -5 yards.

Meanwhile Mason throws a simple slant to Pickens (who was limited in practice the first Bengals game with a shin injury), the safety takes one of the worst angles possible, and not only misses Pickens but takes out his own player.

Mason didn't make that play happen, poor defense did. Mason got lucky that was his first pass. The numbers for Pickett and Mason against the Bengals weren't that different. The Bengals were actually missing MORE players from their d in the second game.
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I couldn't say it any better than this. Spot on.👍
 
Greg Lloyd said:
People seeing Kenny's play as not acceptable are not all "We need to win the SB every year" types, not even close. Nor are we driven by fantasy football #s. We are simply fans who can spot a decent QB and can see obvious signs when a QB doesn't have "it."Kenny isn't some 21 yo kids just out of college; he's a 25 yo who has been through two camps, an off-season and well over a season of play. Experts often cite a QB's 2nd season, after Thanksgiving, as the time when a payer will show if he's gonna cut it in the NFL. Well, Thanksgiving has come and went, and Kenny still sucks. There is just no disputing that, his #s are in the cellar. In most metrics, he's worse than the 32nd QB in the NFL, there are only 32 teams.

Went to blame the horrific OC and offense-deflating head coach? Sure, that's part of it. But is it really "all" of the explanation for the repellent QB play? The weak OL play?

Well, how about this? How about plays where Kenny does have time to pass? They exist yea know? How about pays where he does have time to read the field, and there ARE open receivers? What about those plays? We've all seen them, what happens at those times?

1.) He locks onto only one target, and refuses to read the rest of the field, telegraphing where he is going to throw and the target is tightly covered. That's one option of what Kenny does.

2.) He takes off running for his life, before he really needs to and almost never finds an open player afterwards.

3.) He actually finds an open target but misfires and radically under- or over-shoots his pass to an open receiver.

That's actually what Kenny does, this QB you're defending. Is there any reason for his historically low success rate in TD passes? In passing yards? He's at the cellar of the league in both, and no, it can't all be blamed on an incompetent OC and/or head coach who suffers from pee-your-pants turnover fears. Kenny himself is a large part of the cause for our offensive futility. And he can be as angry as he wants to about it, but he's angry at the wrong people: Try being mad at yourself or God.
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you need to go on youtube and watch some of Terry Bradshaw's early games as a pro. You think KP is bad, check out some of those games and then come back and tell me what you think.
 
insaniti said:
Mason didn't make that play happen, poor defense did. Mason got lucky that was his first pass. The numbers for Pickett and Mason against the Bengals weren't that different. The Bengals were actually missing MORE players from their d in the second game.
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You have excuses all lined up for one game Kenny played, where he only put up 16 points? Did you know that 16 points is the AVERAGE POINT PER GAME THIS ENTIRE SEASON? Please go ahead and detail while every other game he only averaged 16 PPG, ON AVERAGE. Maybe throw in why he only passed in the low 100's other games. Or why his QBR is so in the cellar for the season. His pathetic production carries on for the entire season, not just one game. But he's just now getting angry over his sitting down.
 
Arcticmanzr said:
you need to go on youtube and watch some of Terry Bradshaw's early games as a pro. You think KP is bad, check out some of those games and then come back and tell me what you think.
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And of course the 70's was basically a different game. But OK. For a more accurate comparison, compare Kenny to Ben. I don't see any Kenny defenders wanting to do that.
 
Kenny did play well and if Tomlin wasn't an idiot Kenny would have had 300 and a TD. If you can not see Kenny played well in the first Cincy game then you are either blind, ignorant, or just plain trolling. Cincys defense stinks, both QBs looked good against them there is 0 to argue here. Pickett has a knack to pull through in the 4th just like Ben did. All the QBs are hindered due to the line and coaching. Mason had the luxury of going against one of the worst Ds in his first game. If Seattle brings a pass rush it will be interesting to see how he handles it.
Greg Lloyd said:
And for all the hoopla of Kenny's play that game, he put up 16 points; nothing to write home about. Mason gouged them for 30+.
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Arcticmanzr said:
you need to go on youtube and watch some of Terry Bradshaw's early games as a pro. You think KP is bad, check out some of those games and then come back and tell me what you think.
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You seriously aren't going back 50 years for a comparison are you? How about looking at Pickett's historically bad TD%. He was bottom five all time the last I saw. It's probably worse now.
 
So just so I'm understanding this whole thread. We can't use the fact that Pickett has had a historically bad OC his first two years in the league, an OC that made our HOF QB look pretty average until he would go backyard ball in the 4th quarter, an OC that didn't have a single game over 400 yards his entire tenure with the steelers, we can't use that at all to defend the fact that they were asking Pickett to not lose games, therefore preventing him from being aggressive, no. Can't use that at all.

Mason comes in, plays well against one of the worst defense teams in the league, a team we had our first 400 yard game in 58 games against, in the first game without said OC, and he is suddenly the savior, and Pickett, in his second year, not even thru his second year is just a bum who is the sole reason his stats are how they are.

I just can't fathom the ******* thought process here. There is no ******* way to fully evaluate Pickett yet, zero. Depending on who they bring in as OC, then maybe next year we find out, but to just give up on him not even thru his second year is just asinine, borderline retarded.

And when I read things like, "Mason made plays Pickett can only dream of" I have to laugh. Pickett has a 72 yard TD pass this year, Pickett hit Pickens for the go ahead, have sealing 41 yard TD, he hit him in the first Cleveland game for a 71 yard TD. He has made plays just like Mason did.

Let's give him an OC, figured upgrading the OL, THEN we can evaluate Pickett.
 
I've read a few times about Mason putting up 30 + against a bad defense doesn't prove anything.

Well, isn't that what good QB's do?....put up 30+ against bad defenses?
 
Arcticmanzr said:
I sure am glad that some of you were not around when they first drafted Terry Bradshaw. A lot of you would have torn him apart on message boards like this! It took him 3 to 4 years to get it figured out and then all he did was win 4 super bowls and became one if the greatest QB's in NFL history. I am not saying by any means that KP is Terry Bradshaw, but for goodness sakes can we just take a step back, take a breath and see what happens with KP's Devlopment. And don't say you have seen everything you need to see in KP, no we haven't, he still has some learning to do. People will bring up Brock Purdy, but I am willing to bet that Kyle Shanahan could take just about any QB and make him succeed in his system. Remember what his dad did with RB's! Mike Shanahan could turn any RB into a 1000 yard back in his system. Kyle has figured out the right offence to run in todays NFL. (although he still has not won a Super Bowl with it). By the way I would love to steal the 49'rs OC and QB coach and bring that system to the Steelers! This is the 50th year that I have been a Steelers fan, so I have seen all of the high's and low's of this team's history from the late 60's till now. This reminds me of the 80's (the end of Knoll and the start of Cower) They will right the ship at some point I have trust in Khan and Weidl and I am willing to give KP some more time to develop before I call him a bust. The person within the organization that I have the least amount of confidence in at this point is Art Rooney 2! He has nowhere near the football mindset that his Dad or Grandfather had. That is where the real problem lies. I love Mike Tomlin and he has been a great head coach here, and he took us to two super bowls, winning one of them, but like Knoll and Cower his time here has come to an end and it's time for a change. Maybe that change needs to come at the Art Rooney 2 level first!
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Very nice post, good sir.

I'm sure you've read the whole thread and the theme(s) on Kenny are crystal clear...

The fella plays scared and that means he can't see the whole field. I've watched every one of his games twice and cannot recall one game that Kenny saw the second or third option.

I hope you're right, but, I challenged the draft pick when he was selected (not like I have any influence on picks) because I watched his collegiate career and he took too long to "get it" in college...
 
insaniti said:
So ******* sick of this argument. I don't know how many times it needs brought up...DJ dropped a prefectly thrown TD pass, and the very next play Warren fumbled. That's points off the board right there.

Their first drive started off with a bullet to Muth in the middle of the field, then a 3 yard run, an attempted WR screen to DJ that went for -5 yards.

Meanwhile Mason throws a simple slant to Pickens (who was limited in practice the first Bengals game with a shin injury), the safety takes one of the worst angles possible, and not only misses Pickens but takes out his own player.

Mason didn't make that play happen, poor defense did. Mason got lucky that was his first pass. The numbers for Pickett and Mason against the Bengals weren't that different. The Bengals were actually missing MORE players from their d in the second game.
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DJ didn't drop the pass. He caught it and had three feet contact the ground. The refs phucked the play up and Coach Tomlin should've have challenged it.

That still doesn't save Kenny "One Read" though...

Mason threw a dart to George on the slant. Perfect pass and better effort by George to take it all the way for a TD. Rudy isn't the answer for the franchise but the fact that Kenny "hasn't learned anything" while being on the sideline is just ludicrous...
 
bermudasteel said:
Very nice post, good sir.

I'm sure you've read the whole thread and the theme(s) on Kenny are crystal clear...

The fella plays scared and that means he can't see the whole field. I've watched every one of his games twice and cannot recall one game that Kenny saw the second or third option.

I hope you're right, but, I challenged the draft pick when he was selected (not like I have any influence on picks) because I watched his collegiate career and he took too long to "get it" in college...
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•His presnap reads are bad
•He exits clean pockets frequently-skittish
•Has accuracy issues needing better footwork, compounded problem by his skittishness
•Locks onto a target and stays locked on-poor field vision
•Anticipation and “throwing guys open” almost non-existent
•Average arm strength/talent when not throwing off back foot
•Decent Mobility
•A bit frail/gets hurt too often


What’s not to like Berm???
Sounds like you’re seeing the same guy I see out there, and that ain’t a franchise QB
 
Arcticmanzr said:
I sure am glad that some of you were not around when they first drafted Terry Bradshaw. A lot of you would have torn him apart on message boards like this! It took him 3 to 4 years to get it figured out and then all he did was win 4 super bowls and became one if the greatest QB's in NFL history. I am not saying by any means that KP is Terry Bradshaw, but for goodness sakes can we just take a step back, take a breath and see what happens with KP's Devlopment. And don't say you have seen everything you need to see in KP, no we haven't, he still has some learning to do. People will bring up Brock Purdy, but I am willing to bet that Kyle Shanahan could take just about any QB and make him succeed in his system. Remember what his dad did with RB's! Mike Shanahan could turn any RB into a 1000 yard back in his system. Kyle has figured out the right offence to run in todays NFL. (although he still has not won a Super Bowl with it). By the way I would love to steal the 49'rs OC and QB coach and bring that system to the Steelers! This is the 50th year that I have been a Steelers fan, so I have seen all of the high's and low's of this team's history from the late 60's till now. This reminds me of the 80's (the end of Knoll and the start of Cower) They will right the ship at some point I have trust in Khan and Weidl and I am willing to give KP some more time to develop before I call him a bust. The person within the organization that I have the least amount of confidence in at this point is Art Rooney 2! He has nowhere near the football mindset that his Dad or Grandfather had. That is where the real problem lies. I love Mike Tomlin and he has been a great head coach here, and he took us to two super bowls, winning one of them, but like Knoll and Cower his time here has come to an end and it's time for a change. Maybe that change needs to come at the Art Rooney 2 level first!
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Pretty much spot on.
 
Fiji Mariner said:
•His presnap reads are bad
•He exits clean pockets frequently-skittish
•Has accuracy issues needing better footwork, compounded problem by his skittishness
•Locks onto a target and stays locked on-poor field vision
•Anticipation and “throwing guys open” almost non-existent
•Average arm strength/talent when not throwing off back foot
•Decent Mobility
•A bit frail/gets hurt too often


What’s not to like Berm???
Sounds like you’re seeing the same guy I see out there, and that ain’t a franchise QB
Click to expand...

What concerns me the most about Kenny is his field vision. I don't know how much of that is bad WR route concepts or happy feet but he has some things that need to be cleaned up. Not locked into if it can or can't be, that for me is still a wait and see.

I am really interested in what he could look like in a different set of circumstances. In a situation that that he can be coached up. If that means a new OC or HC or both.

I feel he has some attributes that look like they could be special as well as well as ones that look troubling. In a green QB I feel you just have to see it through. See how it unfolds. I point to his slow college development. He could take longer than desired or simply just not be up to the task. We know there is fans that think one way or the other.

Waiting and seeing doesn't prevent you from bringing in competition nor should it. If Kenny isn't the answer we know the majority feel no other QB on the roster is.

So you draft a QB and bring in a competent offensive mind.

I prefer this than to bringing a free agent QB. Why? I am looking for the next franchise not looking for .500 ball competitors.
 
It would be interesting to see what a good HC/OC combo could do with him cuz he, like the last several QBs here, is playing at a disadvantage every time he takes the field

Unfortunately I fear KP’s time here ends before Mike’s does and that is an indictment of Rooney not an endorsement of Kenny
 
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