• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

Article on TB- Steeler game

"leave it to the Steelers to play down to the competition"

same as it ever was
 
Hope the Rooneys get that emailed from every Steeler fan.
 
Maybe im in the minority around here but i think its past time for LeBeau to move on......
 
One point that caught my eye and that perhaps many overlooked is the fact that the New England Cheatriots have had 47 games against an opponent with a losing record since 2009. Out of 84 Games, 63% of thier wins have been against teams with a losing record. Graphic below.


5+ Point Favorite vs. Non-Winning Team Since 2009 (Min. 18 Games)



Rk

Team

Straight Up

Pct.

Games

ATS

Pct.

Rk



1

Atlanta Falcons

21-1

0.955

22

13-8-1

0.614

4



2

Seattle Seahawks

17-1

0.944

18

13-5

0.722

1



3

New England Patriots

43-4

0.915

47

25-21-1

0.543

9



4

San Francisco 49ers

20-2-1

0.891

23

16-6-1

0.717

2



5

Baltimore Ravens

23-3

0.885

26

13-13

0.500

11



6

Green Bay Packers

32-4-1

0.878

37

24-12-1

0.662

3



7

Dallas Cowboys

20-3

0.870

23

9-14

0.391

14



8

Denver Broncos

19-3

0.864

22

12-10

0.545

8



9

Indianapolis Colts

17-3

0.850

20

12-8

0.600

5



10

Chicago Bears

16-3

0.842

19

8-11

0.421

13



11

Houston Texans

16-5

0.762

21

11-9-1

0.548

7



12

New York Giants

16-5

0.762

21

10-10-1

0.500

12



13

San Diego Chargers

22-7

0.759

29

16-13

0.552

6



14

New Orleans Saints

28-10

0.737

38

19-18-1

0.513

10



15

Pittsburgh Steelers

21-8

0.724

29

10-19

0.345

16



16

Philadelphia Eagles

13-7

0.650

20

7-13

0.350

15
 
And the HC and OC. Clean house time.
 
Like I said in the other thread I believe if Tomlin can't turn it around this year it is time to clean house when it comes to the coaches and front office. I would like an innovating head coach whether defensively or offensively minded. I want a GM who works with the head coach and take his opinion into consideration BUT first and foremost has the steelers best interest in mind and uses his knowledge and perception of players first. I want the offense to build around Ben, Bell, and Brown and cater to their own skillset. I want the defense to put the best 11 on the field and be aggressive. I want sacks and turnovers.
 
Maybe im in the minority around here but i think its past time for LeBeau to move on......


Ive said this for 2-3 years...What he has done can not be overlooked....but his defense has become predictable and get exploited by any team that can come up with a few plays. Part of it is lack of talent, but he has not adapted for what he's got to work with...


I can watch the game on TV and predict what the other team will do to his defenses......its time to step away LeBeau.
 
This thread basically sums up all my thoughts this week on this pathetic defense scheme. How can anyone argue with this articles logic? I hate to say bad things about a legend, but its time for new blood on the defensive side of things.
 
what magic scheme should Lebeau use with no pass rushers and no good cover men?
 
if he isn't going to get any pass rush,, he should rush 2 or 3 play the dime and cover man to man.. the 8 yd cushions are ridiculous..

they don't have any man cover CBs. Dime? You want 6 DBs on the field? Right now they are having trouble with 4 on the field.

Everybody hates the cushion. Does it occur to anybody that cushion makes it easier for the CB? I don't understand the logic that the key to fixing the defense is having the secondary do something even more difficult than what they are currently doing.

When you play man coverage it is much easier to run the ball against you because your DB's backs are to the play, so they don't even know it's a run until the RB has 10 yards. You better have a great fron 7 and some good cover CBs to play man. The steelers have neither.
 
what magic scheme should Lebeau use with no pass rushers and no good cover men?

I think tape sums it up well here. The article listed above attacked lots of coaching issues and scheme issues but I don't believe it adequately addressed the personel issue. The bad drafts of the last few years are really begining to show their faces now. Jones a first rounder is out and not missed. A franchised player is not noticed when he is in there. The offensive line is very hit or miss and seems like more miss than hit. WRs do not seem to be focused on anything but celebrations. Running backs play like they are stoned. We have brought back from retirement or kept players past their prime and they are still better than anything behind them.

Lots of valid points in the article but somethings can not be fixed with scheme. I dont know if a good scheme is out there for what ever eleven we trot out on the field.
 
they don't have any man cover CBs. Dime? You want 6 DBs on the field? Right now they are having trouble with 4 on the field.

Everybody hates the cushion. Does it occur to anybody that cushion makes it easier for the CB? I don't understand the logic that the key to fixing the defense is having the secondary do something even more difficult than what they are currently doing.

When you play man coverage it is much easier to run the ball against you because your DB's backs are to the play, so they don't even know it's a run until the RB has 10 yards. You better have a great fron 7 and some good cover CBs to play man. The steelers have neither.

So what's your answer to defend the 3rd and 2 when the CBs are 10 yds. off the line? The article cited in this thread has a still shot of this very problem.
 
they don't have any man cover CBs. Dime? You want 6 DBs on the field? Right now they are having trouble with 4 on the field.

Everybody hates the cushion. Does it occur to anybody that cushion makes it easier for the CB?

I agree with your first paragraph in its entirety.

I agree that the cushion helps a DB avoid getting beat deep.

However, if the Steelers don't have the personnel to play man, then play true zone. That means Polamalu needs to play safety, not whatever-the-hell he is doing now. Play safety and cover your portion of the field.

By having that deep help, the CB's can get on the receivers. Jam them even a bit, and those short patterns to find a hole the zone are eminently more difficult to complete.

Zone is very difficult to play. It requires a very intelligent and well-prepared team, to know what the receiver is going to do, when to move up on the receiver in your zone, when to let him go to the next defender, when to make a play on the receiver, etc. But if the defense can play good zone coverage - not "cover a portion of lawn" but instead actual zone where the defender locks onto receivers in his zone - then the CB's can get a hell of a lot closer to the receivers, and make a play on the ball.
 
The article shows the 3rd and 2 defense:

Wk4PITCush.jpg


Yeah, that type of lock-down coverage is going to mess with a QB's mind on 3rd and short.
 
Could someone teach Badcat to properly cut and paste? Holy **** man.

Sorry man, I copied the table and the formatting didn't follow it.

As to Lebeau's defense, there is no magic pill and I dont believe that anyone here is suggesting that. As the screen shots point out, the Steeler's DBs cannot give up 8-10 yard cussions on a 3rd and 2. NONE of your 3-4 DL are big enough, strong enough, or tenacious enough to demand a double team and leave a nice gap for a blitz. And when you DO blitz, how about making sure that the middle of the field isn't WIDE OPEN for the opposing team to make a 20+ yard play. It's just embarrasing.
 
I love LeBeau and I understand he doesn't have the players to play straight press man on man. I wish he would explain how he is going to stop a 3rd and 2 with all 3 CBs playing between 6 and 20 yards off of the WRs. I just don't understand that. You don't have to have the CB standing 3 feet away but how about 3 yards off? Hell how about just staying in the 20 yard camera frame?
 
Cushions are applicable when you have the pass rush to enforce it. Football always has and always will start in the trenches. We had two HoF-caliber players in Casey Hampton and Aaron Smith, with a very solid third option in Kimo and then Keisel. On top of that, we always had one or two elite pass rushers at OLB.

Tomlin has slowly degraded that front 7 by plugging in players that do not fit our scheme or players that are just not that great, such as Ziggy Hood, Jason Worilds, Jarvis Jones, Cam Thomas and Steve McClendon. Heyward looks good and Tuitt has potential, but is not seeing the field (35 ******* snaps, meanwhile worthless Cam Thomas has notched 164). Until the DL can be the powerhouse 2-gap wonder it was last decade, the pass rush is going to look like a pile of ****, especially with our perceived lack of talent at OLB.

The DL and the pass rush have degraded, but the coverage is still being schemed as if we have the best 3-4 DL in the league. We enjoy our big, physical corners, so why not play some press and adjust the scheme for the failings on the DL? Or, better yet, why not trot the promising rookie out there and sit the **** out of Cam Thomas?
 
The article shows the 3rd and 2 defense:

Wk4PITCush.jpg


Yeah, that type of lock-down coverage is going to mess with a QB's mind on 3rd and short.

If the coverage is a cover 3 then the short route by the WR is not the responsibility of the outside CB. His responsibility is to drop and cover a deep third. The inside CB has the short outside zone and the ILB or possibly the DE on this play would likely have responsibility to cover the other WR in the short area.

The defense WANTS the QB to make that quick throw. The philosophy is that the DB can make the tackle before the line to gain.

The nickel CB is in position to take away a quick slant from the outside WR.

If it is a bubble screen, then the outside CB has to read that and come up for the tackle.


I just watched the replay and you know what's funny? The play that happened before that picture was 21 yard gain on 2nd and 23 by the TE and the steelers were in press coverage.

WHat happened on the play in the picture? Nothing. Moats jumped offsides to give them a first down.

People look at these pictures as if it's man defense. You see Gay playing way off and assume he is supposed to cover Jackson on the short routes but that may not be his responsibility. It may be a LB who is supposed to flash into that passing lane.

This guy botches about Lebeau not doubling Jackson by the goal but on the winning TD, he was doubled. Gay had helo from Troy to the inside. Jackson faked inside and broke outside and Gay bit on the fake so Jackson beat him outside. That should have never happened. Gay never should have reacted to the inside fake because he had help. If he doesn't bite, he would have been in position to pick that off.

The bottom line is Lebeau does mix up his coverages. It's failing because no pass rushers are winning matchups and DBs are blowing coverages, like Mike Mitchell biting on an underneath route and leaving Louis Murphy wide open.
 
Here is the play before the picture in the article. No cushion. Lebeau is mixing it up but i guess this pic didn't fit the author's misleading premise so he did not include it.

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • Pitt TB.jpg
    Pitt TB.jpg
    89.2 KB · Views: 33
If the coverage is a cover 3 then the short route by the WR is not the responsibility of the outside CB. His responsibility is to drop and cover a deep third. The inside CB has the short outside zone and the ILB or possibly the DE on this play would likely have responsibility to cover the other WR in the short area.
Look, there is no way - NO WAY - that the DE or ILB could POSSIBLY, conceivably, under any series of events, cover the WR in time to stop the 1st down.

The defense WANTS the QB to make that quick throw. The philosophy is that the DB can make the tackle before the line to gain.

Again, it is absolutely, completely, totally impossible for the CB to take the receiver short of the first down - the CB is 6 to 12 yards from the receiver. Receiver goes forward 3 yards, ball is out, WR catches it and is tackled IMMEDIATELY - 1st down. If the WR takes 2 steps, 5 yard gain. If he breaks a tackle, 10-yard gain.

The coverage is designed to give up 5-10 yards. That should have been the ******* coverage on 2nd and 23.

I just watched the replay and you know what's funny? The play that happened before that picture was 21 yard gain on 2nd and 23 by the TE and the steelers were in press coverage.

See above.

WHat happened on the play in the picture? Nothing. Moats jumped offsides to give them a first down.
It was the WRONG coverage for 3rd and 2. The fact that a penalty on the Steelers prevented the inevitable defensive failure is not a compelling argument. Or even a good argument. Or frankly, much of an argument at all.

If the Steelers had lined up in a goal line offense with no RB, no WR, just a bunch of lineman and TE's on the 3rd and 5, and were getting ready to run a QB sneak to get the 5 yards, the fact that somebody committed a penalty does NOT make the formation or play calling appropriate.

It just doesn't.

People look at these pictures as if it's man defense. You see Gay playing way off and assume he is supposed to cover Jackson on the short routes but that may not be his responsibility. It may be a LB who is supposed to flash into that passing lane.

Again, tape, there is simply no way a LB'er can prevent a 5-yard gain by the WR. Further, there is literally nobody within 12 yards of the WR on the bottom of the picture. If the QB immediately fires the ball to that WR, then he has the 1st down and is one broken tackle away from a 15 yard gain ... on 3rd and effing 2.

This guy ******* about Lebeau not doubling Jackson by the goal but on the winning TD, he was doubled. Gay had helo from Troy to the inside. Jackson faked inside and broke outside and Gay bit on the fake so Jackson beat him outside. That should have never happened. Gay never should have reacted to the inside fake because he had help. If he doesn't bite, he would have been in position to pick that off.

You are describing man coverage by Gay, and zone by Troy. That certainly may have been the coverage, but if so, then Gay is single covering on a move to the corner. Troy cannot cover that area, for God's sake, unless the play takes 4 seconds.

It is 2nd and goal on the 4. It won't take 4 seconds. So yes, Gay is expected to provide man-coverage on the play run, and he failed.

The bottom line is Lebeau does mix up his coverages. It's failing because no pass rushers are winning matchups and DBs are blowing coverages, like Mike Mitchell biting on an underneath route and leaving Louis Murphy wide open.

But you point out two clearly bad coverage calls - press coverage on 2nd and 23 and way off-man on 3rd and 2.

As well as the TD, where any move to the outside by the WR leave Gay 1-on-1.
 
you keep thinking of it in terms of man cover. Obviously an OLB or DE can't run out to the WR in time but that's not necessary. A DE or OLB doesn't have to "cover" the outside WR to take away the throw, he just has to get in the throwing lane. That's the concept. You are giving those short throws but trying to make it a tough throw so hopefully your help can arrive and make the tackle for short gain,

I don't understand your point on Gay. I said Gay messed up. He knew he had help from Troy inside so when Jackson fakes the in cut, he never should have bit on it because he knew he had to cover on the out or the corner. You're right, Troy had no chance to cover outside. They had Jackson bracketed. Gay was in great position to play the out or the fade but then he bit inside and Jackson cut out and got the separation for the catch. The coverage should have worked or at least forced a tough throw and catch.

This is not a scheme issue. The players are making mistakes. The article implies Lebeau has them playing off on every play and that's not true.

You also have to look at your opponent. Jackson and Evans are big WRs who have deep speed but they are not quick twitch guys. You want them throwing quick passes to a stationary Jackson rather than deep bombs. Ike was the only tall DB the steelers had. How often would you want to press them without a pass rush to force a quick throw?
 
Sorry tape but there is no way anybody gets into the passing lane on the bottom WR in that shot. He can just stand there, get the pass and it's an easy 1st down.
 
Top