Bob Woodward's New Book - Fear: Trump in the White House

[madinsomniac]

He's running "the show" indeed. I don't think he's running the government really.

Like I said, if I ever see him have an intelligent in-depth discussion about anything (that isn't a prepared speech) I will be very relieved and happily admit I'm wrong.

And I realize people like that about him...he's simplistic. That appeals to people. It's just not my thing.

95% of the Presidentsy is delegation anyhow... there wouldn’t be enough time in a month to focus on half what needs done otherwise...its all administrative so people can laude or blame him all they want... if he died tomorrow the only thing that would change dramatically is who gets the blame or credit for this ****... same with obama and bush and clinton... outside of a few things and of course deciding whom things are delegated to, Presidents aren’t exactly always in the forefront of their accomplishments... or often their failures either

 

[oneforthebus]

95% of the Presidentsy is delegation anyhow... there wouldn’t be enough time in a month to focus on half what needs done otherwise...its all administrative so people can laude or blame him all they want... if he died tomorrow the only thing that would change dramatically is who gets the blame or credit for this ****... same with obama and bush and clinton... outside of a few things and of course deciding whom things are delegated to, Presidents aren’t exactly always in the forefront of their accomplishments... or often their failures either

I agree with you. I'm not criticizing him for relying on advisors. My issue is I sense is he doesn't have a strong grasp of much of what is going on. Honestly as long as they are doing the right things and he is appealing to people in his way, it works.

As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, I think a lot of the anonymous reporting is exaggerated. But there is at least a kernel of truth to some of it, just based on my own observations of him. That was my original point.

For some reason some people are unwilling to even consider that he might not be the most amazing guy who ever walked the planet in some ways. I try to take a realistic view of him.

 

[IndySteel]

Well, Elfie got the PERMANENT Ban Hammer...so don't expect a response until he/she/it comes back under PoloMalu43 or some other alias she/he/it uses.

I missed this. Did the pig throw the race card around too much? That must be why Tibs has been mourning in his safe space. Kind of hard to have a circle jerk with just Flog.

 

[madinsomniac]

I always figured Elfie was an alt for one of you super conservatives.... a parody of liberal extremist or something... in any case I don’t think the elf will be on the shelf for long....

 

[Steelworth]

Elfie will find a way. Trolls need to eat too.

 

[Tibs]

I doubt Woodward would put four decades of credibility on the line to make stuff up in this book. He's on record stating everything he's written is substantiated by recordings, emails or other written evidence. He is arguably the most credible, experienced and thorough investigative journalist we have in this country. Dismiss the contents of this book at your own peril.

A bit off topic, but to the same points Woodward makes, comes this Op-Ed from the NY Times today. Again, dismiss it if you will. I find it alarming that we're hearing the same message repeated over and over. That Trump is unhinged and things are teetering out of control in the WH, which is a perilous situation, regardless what you think of politics or political parties.

I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

I work for the president but like-minded colleagues and I have vowed to thwart parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

The Times today is taking the rare step of publishing an anonymous Op-Ed essay. We have done so at the request of the author, a senior official in the Trump administration whose identity is known to us and whose job would be jeopardized by its disclosure. We believe publishing this essay anonymously is the only way to deliver an important perspective to our readers. We invite you to submit a question about the essay or our vetting process here.

---

President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

<aside class="css-14jsv4e"></aside>The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.

Although he was elected as a Republican, the president shows little affinity for ideals long espoused by conservatives: free minds, free markets and free people. At best, he has invoked these ideals in scripted settings. At worst, he has attacked them outright.

In addition to his mass-marketing of the notion that the press is the “enemy of the people,” President Trump’s impulses are generally anti-trade and anti-democratic.

Don’t get me wrong. There are bright spots that the near-ceaseless negative coverage of the administration fails to capture: effective deregulation, historic tax reform, a more robust military and more.

But these successes have come despite — not because of — the president’s leadership style, which is impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.

From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.

Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.

“There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.

The erratic behavior would be more concerning if it weren’t for unsung heroes in and around the White House. Some of his aides have been cast as villains by the media. But in private, they have gone to great lengths to keep bad decisions contained to the West Wing, though they are clearly not always successful.

It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.

The result is a two-track presidency.

Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.

This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state. It’s the work of the steady state.

Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right direction until — one way or another — it’s over.

The bigger concern is not what Mr. Trump has done to the presidency but rather what we as a nation have allowed him to do to us. We have sunk low with him and allowed our discourse to be stripped of civility.

Senator John McCain put it best in his farewell letter. All Americans should heed his words and break free of the tribalism trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

We may no longer have Senator McCain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue. Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.

There is a quiet resistance within the administration of people choosing to put country first. But the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one: Americans.

The writer is a senior official in the Trump administration.

 

[Stewey]

My issue is I sense is he doesn't have a strong grasp of much of what is going on..

Going on as far as what? Foreign affairs I assume?

Remember the idiot who said that ISIS was a JV team.

I think a lot of the anonymous reporting is exaggerated. But there is at least a kernel of truth to some of it, just based on my own observations of him. That was my original point.

"At least a kernel" truth? If is only a kernel, then why ***** about it? That's what liberals do, ***** about the kernels.

For some reason some people are unwilling to even consider that he might not be the most amazing guy who ever walked the planet in some ways. I try to take a realistic view of him.

No one is saying he's the most amazing guy that ever walked the planet, but what we can say is that what he has been able to accomplished thus far has been amazing.

 

[madinsomniac]

I doubt Woodward would put four decades of credibility on the line to make stuff up in this book. He's on record stating everything he's written is substantiated by recordings, emails or other written evidence. He is arguably the most credible, experienced and thorough investigative journalist we have in this country. Dismiss the contents of this book at your own peril.

A bit off topic, but to the same points Woodward makes, comes this Op-Ed from the NY Times today. Again, dismiss it if you will. I find it alarming that we're hearing the same message repeated over and over. That Trump is unhinged and things are teetering out of control in the WH, which is a perilous situation, regardless what you think of politics or political parties.

I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

I work for the president but like-minded colleagues and I have vowed to thwart parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

Here is the problem with that... its still anonymous. Personally id believe that much of this is true, but the news has given us so much bull crap associated with these anonymous sources that turn out to be utter bs that nobody who doesn’t want to believe it has to.... this is written with to many triggers to be taken at fave value... it is what it is... the times blew all of its credibility with inane crying pieces with no real substance and often lies it had to backtrack on for this to have the impact you want it to

 

[Tibs]

Here is the problem with that... its still anonymous.

More than anything, this senior official in the Trump adminstration is a coward. He/she should resign immediately and offer to testify under oath in front of a congressional hearing to lay bare what's happening at the highest levels of government. If you feel things are so bad that the Republic is in dire straights, take specific steps to save the Republic. It's interesting the article states there are multiple people - maybe dozens? - in the cabinet and administration that are basically running a 'shadow' government. These are people Trump interacts with on a daily basis. I don't think anything like this has ever happened in the history of our country. How this ends up nobody knows, but damn...it's ****** up.

 

[TDX27]

The book is pure fiction. There is not a relevant or factual piece of information in it.

 

[oneforthebus]

Going on as far as what? Foreign affairs I assume?

Remember the idiot who said that ISIS was a JV team.

Did I say I think Obama was more well-versed in foreign affairs? In fact I think his foreign policy was a disaster. What does that have to do with my feelings about Trump?

"At least a kernel" truth? If is only a kernel, then why ***** about it? That's what liberals do, ***** about the kernels

Bitching about it? I was commenting about my thoughts on Woodward's book, which is the topic of this thread. I think I've said a few times that I'd rather have it this way than have Hillary, that the way things are being handled is not necessarily a bad thing, etc. etc. No, I don't worship at the Trump altar just because he's on my team. I try to look at things objectively. That seems to make some of you defensive and angry. That's ok, you don't have to agree with me.

No one is saying he's the most amazing guy that ever walked the planet, but what we can say is that what he has been able to accomplished thus far has been amazing.

I would agree that his administration has been able to accomplish some very good things. I've never disputed that. My question is whether that's largely because of him or in spite of him. It's probably a little of both if I had to guess.

 

[oneforthebus]

More than anything, this senior official in the Trump adminstration is a coward. He/she should resign immediately and offer to testify under oath in front of a congressional hearing to lay bare what's happening at the highest levels of government.

I agree this person should resign. Cowardly is exactly right.

And he destroys his credibility on all the "Trump is not upholding conservative ideals" with all the McCain stuff. I mean, I don't think McCain is a terrible person but he's certainly no loyal conservative. This feels like it was written by a McCain ally and is one more payback for Trump from him.

Will be interesting to find out who it is.

 

[Tibs]

The book is pure fiction. There is not a relevant or factual piece of information in it.

TDX27 you may want to read up a bit on this before you dismiss it out of hand. Btw, there is word today that Trump has started looking for a replacement for Gen. Mathis.

“Everybody on the Inside Knows It’s True”: Woodward’s Reality Bomb Is Blowing Up the West Wing
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/201...-blowing-up-the-west-wing?mbid=social_twitter

“Pandemonium” reigns as Trump cancels meetings, a top aide bemoans “Judas” colleagues, Jared and Ivanka try to talk sense into the president, and Gary Cohn wonders how he came off.

The West Wing came to a virtual standstill yesterday after The Washington Post published the first excerpts of Bob Woodward’s upcoming book, Fear. The book by the veteran White House chronicler portrays Donald Trump as an unhinged and ill-informed commander in chief surrounded by aides who doubt his intelligence and question his fitness for office. “It’s pandemonium. He literally isn’t talking to anyone. He’s canceled meetings and is on the phone calling up his friends,” one source said. Current and former staffers, meanwhile, pointed fingers in all directions as they sought to deflect blame for the damaging leaks. “I’d rather be an unapologetic defender of Donald Trump than Judas,” one West Wing official told me.

Woodward’s book triggered Trump’s wrath on several levels. Two sources told me Trump is furious at the portions of the book that describe administration officials questioning his intelligence and emotional stability. Woodward reports that Chief of Staff John Kelly called Trump “an idiot” and the West Wing “Crazytown”; Defense Secretary Jim Mattis compared Trump to a “fifth- or sixth-grader”; and Trump’s former personal lawyer called Trump a “******* liar” who would end up in “an orange jumpsuit” if he testified to special counsel Robert Mueller.

Trump is also outraged that the book portrays aides as believing they are the grown-ups protecting the country from his dangerous impulses. Two sources said Trump is particularly angry with former economic adviser Gary Cohn, who is revealed in the book to have snatched a letter off Trump’s desk to protect “national security.” “He hates that people are leaking. They think they can take things off the Resolute desk because of this idea they’re ‘saving’ the country,” one senior West Wing official said. “I mean, who does that?” One source said Cohn called up his former colleagues to ask them how he came off in the book. “Gary wanted to make sure he didn’t compromise himself that much,” a source who spoke with Cohn said. (Cohn declined to comment.)

Sources also said Trump blames the White House communications staff and Kellyanne Conway for not bringing Woodward’s interview requests to him. “I’m just hearing about it. So we’re going to have a very inaccurate book,” Trump told Woodward in a phone call last month, a transcript of which the Post published yesterday. (Whether aides in fact failed to tell Trump about Woodward’s interview requests is unclear. Conway declined to comment.)

Woodward’s book isn’t officially on sale until next week, and aides fear how Trump will react as more embarrassing bits are reported. “It’s bad and it’s going to get worse,” a former West Wing staffer said. An outside adviser added, “Everybody on the inside knows it’s true. It’s just Fox News people who don’t want to admit how crazy he is.” Kelly and Mattis issued strong statements denying the quotes attributed to them, but two former administration officials said the book has rekindled Trump’s desire to fire both officials after the midterms. “That’s back on the table,” one said. Trump’s advisers also worry about how the president will respond to the increasing pressure of Mueller’s probe and the growing likelihood that Democrats will win back the House in November, thereby making impeachment a real possibility. “You can normally only do 10 percent of what he tells you to do. Ninety percent is ******* crazy,” a former West Wing official said, fretting about what Trump may instruct aides to do.

Even Trump’s family is concerned the president is in deep trouble. After attending John McCain’s funeral, Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump told Trump he needs to get control of himself. A person briefed on the conversation recalled, “Jared told him if they’re going to last in Washington they can’t be this far off the mark with the establishment.”

The White House declined to comment.

 

[Tibs]

The book is pure fiction. There is not a relevant or factual piece of information in it.

Also, there's this, from the man himself.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Only the Obama WH can get away with attacking Bob Woodward.</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/307582196196188160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 1, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Steeltime]

I doubt Woodward would put four decades of credibility on the line to make stuff up in this book.

Tibs, Woodward has made up stuff for other books. For example:

This being the Woodward end of that Woodstein team, how is it at all different from the controversy Woodward ginned up for himself back in 1987, when he claimed to have gotten a "deathbed confession" from the dying former Reagan-era CIA director, Bill Casey, who allegedly said he knew about arms-trafficking during the Iran contra scandal because "I believed"? Casey's widow said that was an utter fabrication, something he made up to sell books.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blo..._of_bob_woodwards_new_book_is_a_disgrace.html

In 2010, a former C.I.A. employee, who was part of Casey’s security detail, claimed Woodward “fabricated” the story after being turned away from Casey’s room at Georgetown University Hospital.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/bob-woodward-throws-an-interception

Seriously, Casey was dying of brain cancer, and had a massive brain tumor being treated with substantial amounts of pain medication, and Woodward claims to have had a conversation with him right before the massive brain tumor killed him?!? Anybody who has seen the very unfortunate ravages of brain cancer and a brain tumor on a loved one knows that Woodward's claim is absolute bullshit - a lie. Casey's wife, daughter, and son-in-law, all of whom were actually there when Casey died, say that Woodward is lying. A member of Casey's security detail says that Woodward is lying. The family say that Casey was so ravaged by cancer and insentient due to the pain medication that he could not speak.

So who's lying here - Woodward while trying to sell a book and make money, or Casey's wife, daughter, son-in-law, and security, none of whom profits a penny from refuting Woodward??

Now we have more of the same from "deathbed confession" Woodward, claiming that President Trump's chief of staff, General John Kelly, called Trump an "idiot" and said he had a terrible job. Weird, because Kelly just signed up for two more years. Why is an anonymous source more credible than Kelly?

It gets worse. Supposedly, defense secretary General Jim Mattis said President Trump knows little about foreign policy, but Mattis obviously didn't tell Woodward that.

What we have is another gossip book from cowards too cowardly to come out and say what they want to say, probably fearing they'd get the slander and libel lawsuits they'd deserve. But since the book trashes Trump, the media treat it as the truth.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blo...rds_new_book_is_a_disgrace.html#ixzz5QGo48o2w

Yep. That about sums it up.

 

[Tibs]

Yep. That about sums it up.

I see you're really reaching for straws trying to wish this all away. Steeltime, I respect you and think your heart is in the right place. But I encourage you to think outside the bubble from time to time. You can't possibly believe Bob Woodward just made this all up to belittle the President. The writing is on the wall, there is some serious **** going down inside the WH, and we may just be seeing the tip of the iceberg.

 

[oneforthebus]

Woodward is reporting things he's heard. That doesn't mean everyone's telling him the truth.

 

[IndySteel]

The corrupt D.C. establishment (swamp) is in full panic mode. They’re rolling out ancient libtards like Woodward & Bernstein because they are so desperate to hide the real corruption. There’s no turning back now, it will be exposed and Washington will be changed for the better. We the people, not we the congress...

 

[IndySteel]

The rats are squealing. Fake news, fake books, fake polls, screaming during the Kavanaugh interviews....it’s just pathetic, embarrassing and proof that the left is dying on the vine. And it’s awesome.

 

[Steeltime]

I see you're really reaching for straws trying to wish this all away.

Huh? You specifically wrote,

I doubt Woodward would put four decades of credibility on the line to make stuff up in this book.

I posted very powerful evidence he has done exactly that.

Therefore, your belief that he is a reliable historian and truthteller is very much in question. Instead, Woodward has been proved to have made up an entire supposed deathbed confession that never happened.

Fact. Supported by witnesses and links.

Oh, and identified witnesses, not the usual anonymous bullshit.

 

[Steeltime]

Woodward is reporting things he's heard.

But as I showed above, sometimes he is just making up stuff.

As in, lying about a conversation with a dying Bill Casey that never took place.

I suspect his increasing reliance on anonymous sources is in large part to avoid getting ripped to shreds again when the person who supposedly told him something says, "False" and provides witnesses to back up the denial.

 

[Tibs]

Oh, and identified witnesses, not the usual anonymous bullshit.

I'll be curious to see Woodward's book fact-checked once it's released, given he gives names, dates and specifics of everything in the book. He has written or taped evidence of it all. Checked, cross-referenced, annotated.

As I've read elsewhere, if 10% of what's written in this book is factual, we are in a world of trouble. My guess is that number is closer to 85-90%.

 

[Steeltime]

As I've read elsewhere, if 10% of what's written in this book is factual, we are in a world of trouble.

Well that would certainly be true, as we would be in a society where somebody who claims to be credible finds a publisher for material that is 90% false, and neither is held to account for lying 90% of the time.

 

[madinsomniac]

Yeah im sorry, anonymous sources should be ignored at this point... have something to say, say it publicly or shut up... enforce the whistleblower laws that get ignored too often and its not a problem

 

[madinsomniac]

The response to the times article is exactly what I expected... you cannot cry wolf about nonsense until your credibility is tattered then publish an anonymous opt ed piece and expect it to be taken seriously