Well, I respectfully disagree, as in my opinion, it's painfully clear that Ike is the weak link in the entire defense. He struggled the last few years because his speed is dwindling, he can't tackle, and he's being abused by opposing QBs like a rented mule. Besides, if Ike starts, it's most likely his last season with the team anyway. I think Flowers, even if not supplanting Ike,would held the defensive backfield big time, and make the transition smoother.
CB Brandon Flowers cut by the Chiefs
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You can disagree all you want, I don't think you are seeing my point however. I never said we shouldn't go after Flowers, or that he wouldn't upgrade the unit. I said if you swap Ike for Flowers you would not upgrade the unit. Ike is starting this year, but even he knows he's not the number 1 CB anymore. Gay is still your slot/nickel guy, and after that it's a bunch of unknowns. Their plan right now is to use Thomas a lot in the nickel and dime situations as a corner. Bringing in Flowers COULD push Gay down a spot on the depth chart and keep Thomas in his safety position (although he wouldn't see the field and get the experience these young guys need).
So Flowers would help improve the unit short term, but at what cost? But he couldn't replace Ike because he can't play on the outside, he struggles in man to man. In our system, he is a slot/nickel/dime CB only.
So Flowers would help improve the unit short term, but at what cost? But he couldn't replace Ike because he can't play on the outside, he struggles in man to man. In our system, he is a slot/nickel/dime CB only.
I would agree with you, it certainly depends on the cost. If he's looking for big money (which is probably is, making it a moot point anyway), then it wouldn't be worth it. Though I think he should start over Ike, I know it wouldn't happen. I guess more than anything, I'm disappointed in the lack of preparation to improve the CB spot the past few years. I like Allen a lot, and think he will continue to get better. Gay played surprisingly well, but can that be counted on to happen again. Beyond that, I see an aging, slower, below average starter in Ike, and virtually nothing else. Does Shamarko have the necessary skillset to play CB?
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Thomas played quite a bit of CB last year, but like Flowers is limited to where he can play due to his size and coverage skills. Right now, we need to hope that Shaq Richardson is the guy to take over for Ike next year. I think an improved pass rush, having an ILB next to Timmons, and Troy back in his safety spot along with Mitchell replacing Clark is going to make Ike look much better than he did last year. Yes Ike is no longer the player he once was, age is catching up. But what we saw last year was not solely on Ike. We had no pass rush, no help over the top, and Allan was playing thru nagging injuries or not playing at all. I think the plan LAST year was to have Allan out there as the #1 CB, but his injury put it back on Ike's shoulders.
Flowers might not be looking to get paid however. He had his big contract, and will still be getting some money from the chiefs. We still probably won't go after him tho. I don't think the coaches are that concerned about the CB spot, at least not as much as the fans are. That was evident in the draft in that we waited until the 5th round to address that position at all.
Flowers might not be looking to get paid however. He had his big contract, and will still be getting some money from the chiefs. We still probably won't go after him tho. I don't think the coaches are that concerned about the CB spot, at least not as much as the fans are. That was evident in the draft in that we waited until the 5th round to address that position at all.
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I agree with you-
The pundits and fans saw the CB's getting torched and assumed "hey, we need new corners". When in actuality it is a much more complex question...
We've never really had a Revis or Sherman in the defense, nor have we needed it- because we normally had a solid pass rush, and solid LB and Safety play. Almost everyone one of those facets of our defense took a nose dive last year. Hopefully our strategy works out, but I see no reason to start stockpiling on CB's, when that was never really our M.O.
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The idea I get from the Steelers coaching staff is that they don't like established guys. They like guys they can mold towards their system. Brice McCain, Antwon Blake, Cam Thomas. Flowers could be a guy like that, but they already have McCain, who has similar measurables. Flowers would be a redundant signing, therefore I don't see it happening.
Also, getting him in here to replace Ike is silly. Steelers want bigger more physical corners on the edge to handle the AJ Green's and Demayrius Thomas' of the NFL. Ike is 6'1". Cortez is 6'. Shaq Richardson is 6'. Flowers would be abused on the edges.
Also, getting him in here to replace Ike is silly. Steelers want bigger more physical corners on the edge to handle the AJ Green's and Demayrius Thomas' of the NFL. Ike is 6'1". Cortez is 6'. Shaq Richardson is 6'. Flowers would be abused on the edges.
Fair enough Insaniti, I hope you're right. I have lost faith in Ike over the last three years (even before Tebow/Thomas beat him to win in the playoffs) with his declining play, but hopefully he bounces back and proves me wrong. If he does, it will go a long way to making us a Super Bowl contender.
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Even the Tebow play could not be blamed entirely on Ike...
It was stated that Ike assumed he had safety coverage over the top.
With Ryan Clark unable to play in Den, the backup safety scoffed the play and left Ike on an unsuspected island...
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I agree with you up until your last sentence. Just because he is smaller than our preferred ideal CB size doesn't mean he would be abused on the edges. He wasn't in KC and he wouldn't be here.
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But he was abused in KC when he played on the edges. One of the reasons he was let go. You can't pay a nickel/slot CB top CB money.
From rotoworld:
The Baltimore Sun reports the Patriots are also interested in free agent CB Brandon Flowers.
They join the Chargers, Ravens, Falcons, and Vikings as teams with known interest in the 28-year-old. The Patriots have one of the deepest cornerback groupings on paper, but Brandon Browner will be suspended to start the year, Alfonzo Dennard is coming off shoulder surgery and is an off-field distraction at times, and Darrelle Revis is two years removed from a torn ACL. Flowers would be a luxury addition and is likely commanding significant money.
The Baltimore Sun reports the Patriots are also interested in free agent CB Brandon Flowers.
They join the Chargers, Ravens, Falcons, and Vikings as teams with known interest in the 28-year-old. The Patriots have one of the deepest cornerback groupings on paper, but Brandon Browner will be suspended to start the year, Alfonzo Dennard is coming off shoulder surgery and is an off-field distraction at times, and Darrelle Revis is two years removed from a torn ACL. Flowers would be a luxury addition and is likely commanding significant money.
blitzburghv5
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Lee (Lethon)"I call em Paper Champions" Flowers ?
Look at the source. This guy could predict Christmas in December and I would have doubts. Blanket Statement the Steelers and all the rest of the league is always monitoring the free agent pool to see who is there. This guy is short does not cover well and not all that fast. Doubtful he could beat William Gay for a spot.
I'm monitoring that situation, too.
doesn't mean ****.
doesn't mean ****.
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he left San Diego without signing...coming to see us this weekend.
Count ravens out. They just signed Franks & Ross.
So, after reading the entire thread (just 3 pages SMH)...
The ANSWER is - Daniel McCullers and our LB'ing corp. IF they, the front seven can produce a pass rush, from the past, ANY CB will look good back there. Yes, even, Ike "I'm too old" Taylor for one more year...
The ANSWER is - Daniel McCullers and our LB'ing corp. IF they, the front seven can produce a pass rush, from the past, ANY CB will look good back there. Yes, even, Ike "I'm too old" Taylor for one more year...
Just who does he replace. Who do we have that is short and slow and can only play zone that is not eligible for the practice squad and makes several million per year. I think there is a reason the chiefs let him go. What does he add to the team?
We would be better off putting Archer back there and teaching him to cover. He is faster, has better change of direction, and likely jumps higher, and is only an inch shorter.
We would be better off putting Archer back there and teaching him to cover. He is faster, has better change of direction, and likely jumps higher, and is only an inch shorter.
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Cute but NO.
As stated, Flowers ranks in the TOP TEN CBs in a zone coverage system. He was in the wrong system in KC apparently. Not stating he can even REPLACE William Gay; but, he would add to the CB unit - no doubt.
Here's what I'd like to see - Antwon Blake, the new kid (FA) from the Jags turn into something special. He's super fast and can play both CB and S. We're not coaches or staffers for the Steelers - we're fans - I'm sure once the front seven gets fixed - we can trot out some of the arm-chair analysts to replace Ike.
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It's an interesting development on the CB market. He does fit the zone concepts the Steelers like to use. And while we are 3-deep this year at CB, next year is pretty bleak.
I suspect that as Flowers and his agent explore the market, he is not impressed with the long term money and will be advised to look for a 1-year, "prove-it" type deal so he can enter the free agent market next March. That obviously doesn't suit the Steelers' needs.
If we'd like a 3-year or 4-year deal and he wants a 1-year deal, the middle ground is a 2-year deal. Hard to pin down money after that give-and-take.
I suspect that as Flowers and his agent explore the market, he is not impressed with the long term money and will be advised to look for a 1-year, "prove-it" type deal so he can enter the free agent market next March. That obviously doesn't suit the Steelers' needs.
If we'd like a 3-year or 4-year deal and he wants a 1-year deal, the middle ground is a 2-year deal. Hard to pin down money after that give-and-take.
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Per Scott Brown of ESPN, there is no visit scheduled with the Steelers as of now.
Maybe the front office does not want the guy, or it could be the coaches, there maybe hope for those talent evaluators yet. I wonder how if he is one of the top ten corners in a zone coverage system they did not want to have a visit. There should be at any one time 64 corner backs needed at a minimum and that is with only two playing. I think the guy is a lot of hype right now and does not have lots of upside for us. He did intercept some passes though so he must have some qualities of value, unless they think those were an anomaly.
he has scheduled visit with us still per steelerdepot.
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2014/06/flowers-fertilizer/
If he shows interest a 2 year deal would be perfect, this year in the nickel on the and the outside Taylor and flowers and allen in the slot.
in the dime mccain comes in.
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2014/06/flowers-fertilizer/
If he shows interest a 2 year deal would be perfect, this year in the nickel on the and the outside Taylor and flowers and allen in the slot.
in the dime mccain comes in.
