El Paso TX Mass Shooting; 19 Dead, 40 Injured at Walmart

[DBS1970]

define "well regulated militia". I am not saying to take guns away. Also im tired of the second amendment argument. When that was written look at the weapons they had. Give the dayton shooter a 1776 infantry rifle and see how far he gets. He would be lucky to get more then 1 shot off. I don't think the forefathers could have ever imagined the type of weaponry we have today. Like i said before whether you have a 100 round mag or single shot gun it is not going to help against true military power. You may as well be throwing pebbles. The main point is if the govt decided to use the military to oppress people and the military followed through "the people" would be dead or surrender. If the military turned on the govt then the govt wouldn't stand a chance regardless of the weapons civilians had. I have 0 issue with people having guns. I have guns and i grew up around many mamy guns. I enjoy shooting them, but i certainly never think "this gun is going to save me from a govt raid or takeover". I guess we will agree to disagree i just hope none of you lose a son/daughter/grandchild/ friend/ relative to something that could have possibly been prevented.

For ***** sake.

God deliver me from people that have never served and have no clue about how war fighting works and have no knowledge of history on top of it.

The militia is EVERY able bodied man over the age of 16 capable of bearing arms. The meaning of well regulated in the parlance of the time meant when called up they were not a rabble, they were disciplined and ably lead. There are muster sheets from the War of 1812 that describe the equipment to be carried the place to meet and directions to bring your rifle or musket and sufficient ammunition. For the love of God read the writings of the founders themselves and what they said about the vital need of the government to be counterbalanced by an armed citizenry. After that read the history of the Vietnam War, the current wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and see how a decentralized militia is tying down the strongest, most technically advanced Army the world has ever seen. Understand it is resolve that wins wars. Finally learn about how wars are waged what is needed to field a standing military and how a military would fair if tries to wage war on an armed populace that is the same populace that would theoretically be the country that was paying and supplying it.

There are still men among you who will not be disarmed, who will not be ruled and will die on their feet rather than live on their knees. If you attempt to remove the right to keep and bear arms by legislation you will be tempting a civil war.

 

[jitter77]

So you believe that a person who planned a mass murder would not dare break the law and have a high capacity magazine.

They had a so called assault weapons ban under Clinton and it was allowed to expire because it had absolutely no effect on crime stats. Why? Because crimes are done by criminals, not the law abiding.

They should just make murder illegal and then there wouldn't be any.

They possibly could, but most of these mass shooters are younger males who purchase these things legally. If your talking about gang / drug violence then thats a whole different issue. Anything that makes gun / high cap magazines etc etc harder for psychos to obtain the better. The assault weapon "ban" did have an effect for my family personally. Ammo / some guns about tripled in price and my uncle who had upwards of 20 guns decided to switch to paintball instead. Before the ban my SKS cost me $99. Last time I was at a gun show they were around $300. The Dayton shooter had a hit list and was suspended from school. This is the kind of stuff that needs to go onto peoples permanent records and they should not be allowed to purchase weapons. I am not sure how anyone could be against that? If there were no restrictions on the right to bear arms then every weapon ever made would be available to all. I just think something more needs to be done. All we have not is a bunch of political back and forth non-sense

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

They possibly could, but most of these mass shooters are younger males who purchase these things legally. If your talking about gang / drug violence then thats a whole different issue. Anything that makes gun / high cap magazines etc etc harder for psychos to obtain the better. The assault weapon "ban" did have an effect for my family personally. Ammo / some guns about tripled in price and my uncle who had upwards of 20 guns decided to switch to paintball instead. Before the ban my SKS cost me $99. Last time I was at a gun show they were around $300. The Dayton shooter had a hit list and was suspended from school. This is the kind of stuff that needs to go onto peoples permanent records and they should not be allowed to purchase weapons. I am not sure how anyone could be against that? If there were no restrictions on the right to bear arms then every weapon ever made would be available to all. I just think something more needs to be done. All we have not is a bunch of political back and forth non-sense

Should they be allowed to drive? What other rights are you comfortable taking from people who have been charged with no crime and not diagnosed with any mental disorders? Who gets to decide what is deemed bad enough to take your rights?

You are the one suggesting things that won't work. Guns are not the issue. It's psych issues that are behind these shootings.

People who look to do more gun laws are just looking for the easy answer.

BTW, there were some rapid fire weapons available at the time of the Constitution. Various states allowed people to own cannons. So yes, it was the intent that the people are allowed to own whatever weapons they want.

Also on the topic of armed citizens not standing up to a real army, perhaps you should read up on how Vietnam went for the US or how Falujah went, or how the Russians fared in Afghanistan

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

If you take the gun control argument to it's logical conclusion, then you should also want to ban Muslims from the country completely. You should also want to not allow any black people to own guns because of street crime.

I mean if you are going to pass laws that strip rights from the law abiding due to the bad actions of a small minority of that group, then where do you stop with that?

 

[Spike]

Remember when Congress banned those evil 5 shot bolt action surplus army rifles in 1968 because they were "military weapons of war"?

Yeah we just need to pass one more law to end these killings

 

[Booted]

I don't think the forefathers could have ever imagined the type of weaponry we have today.

I dobt think the forefathers could have ever imagined the internet and it's ability to spread hate, divisiveness and lies. We need restrictions on the 1st A.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

This nutjob's dad was on ADHD meds -

Patrick Crusius’ dad, John Bryan Crusius, is a licensed professional counselor who once advocated for a gun violence victim.

Crusius, who goes by Bryan, treats people who are struggling with PTSD, substance abuse, alcohol addiction and co-dependence. He wrote a book about his own dependence on prescription drugs after he was diagnosed with adult ADHD and prescribed benzodiazepines and antidepressants.

If his dad believes in adult ADHD and took meds for it, he would have no problem putting his kid on those meds. IMO adult ADHD is generally bullshit. Daddy sounds like a nut job himself.

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/patrick-crusius-dad-john-bryan-crusius/

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Now I read that the Dayon shooter's girlfriend says they bonded over their mental illness. She had ADD, anxiety, and depression.

A woman purporting to be the former girlfriend of Connor Betts — the gunman shot dead by police after killing nine people in Dayton, Ohio, early Sunday morning — says he exhibited mental illness and disturbing behavior during the course of their relationship.

In a blog post shared to Medium, Adelia Johnson writes she met Betts in a Social Psychology class at Sinclair College in January 2019 and quickly bonded over their “mental illnesses.” According to Johnson, Betts told her that he suffered from bipolar disorder and possibly Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD), while she revealed her own battle with depression, anxiety, and Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD). Johnson indicates by March 2019 that she and Betts began dating while she was engaged to her fiancée — and that all three were aware of the polyamorous arrangement.

If there is an investigation springing from these murders, it better include the medication history of these shooters.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...etts-details-mental-illnesses-dark-behaviors/

 

[Sarge]

The problem is white people. Didn't you know?

 

[thesteelcity]

The problem is white people. Didn't you know?

white people on dope. It's amazing the people on presciption(and non) medication walking among us. I take vitamins every day. That is it.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

white people on dope. It's amazing the people on presciption(and non) medication walking among us. I take vitamins every day. That is it.

You make an interesting observation. I wonder what the ratio of kids on ADD/ADHD/anxiety/depression medications is between lower class and middle/upper class populations. It seems like a suburban thing.

 

[Superman]

define "well regulated militia". I am not saying to take guns away. Also im tired of the second amendment argument. When that was written look at the weapons they had. Give the dayton shooter a 1776 infantry rifle and see how far he gets. He would be lucky to get more then 1 shot off. I don't think the forefathers could have ever imagined the type of weaponry we have today. Like i said before whether you have a 100 round mag or single shot gun it is not going to help against true military power. You may as well be throwing pebbles. The main point is if the govt decided to use the military to oppress people and the military followed through "the people" would be dead or surrender. If the military turned on the govt then the govt wouldn't stand a chance regardless of the weapons civilians had. I have 0 issue with people having guns. I have guns and i grew up around many mamy guns. I enjoy shooting them, but i certainly never think "this gun is going to save me from a govt raid or takeover". I guess we will agree to disagree i just hope none of you lose a son/daughter/grandchild/ friend/ relative to something that could have possibly been prevented.

ah, so we're going to avoid reading this on the internet until you have dutifully sent via pony express a handwritten letter on papyrus by quill pen. or have expressed your beliefs from atop a soap box in the town square.

 

[Vader]

You make an interesting observation. I wonder what the ratio of kids on ADD/ADHD/anxiety/depression medications is between lower class and middle/upper class populations. It seems like a suburban thing.

I'm a teacher and I see it everyday. It isn't just a suburban thing. I teach in a minority district. Tons of black kids are on it as well.

 

[Superman]

If you do not like the second amendment and want it to be changed, there is a process in the Constitution for doing that. It's called amending the Constitution.That's a difficult thing to accomplish and that is by design. We don't lightly and casually deprive people of rights that thousands of people died to preserve.

Will your guns save you from a government takeover? Maybe not. Will they save you and your family from a major civil unrest, gangs of looters, people who've decided that they have a right to punish you for some grievance? Maybe. Do you want to be able to only fire off 6 rounds at a time if they show up at your house?

I don't even own guns, but no restriction on the right to bear arms should be taken lightly or laughed off. Mitch McConnell just had people at his home who wanted to stab him. Castro just tweeted out the names of San Antonio's largest Trump donors.

I believe we were told on this very forum, repeatedly, that the Left is Peace. Love. Tolerance. Non-violent.

oh, and "stab the ************ in the heart"

https://pjmedia.com/trending/anti-g...UILTSHmPg_hOGYGVuTflnMfv9z5ktbItPltHYY​​​​​​​

 

[ark steel]

I'm a teacher and I see it everyday. It isn't just a suburban thing. I teach in a minority district. Tons of black kids are on it as well.

I woukd have expected it to be more so with minorities.

 

[jitter77]

Should they be allowed to drive? What other rights are you comfortable taking from people who have been charged with no crime and not diagnosed with any mental disorders? Who gets to decide what is deemed bad enough to take your rights?

You are the one suggesting things that won't work. Guns are not the issue. It's psych issues that are behind these shootings.

People who look to do more gun laws are just looking for the easy answer.

BTW, there were some rapid fire weapons available at the time of the Constitution. Various states allowed people to own cannons. So yes, it was the intent that the people are allowed to own whatever weapons they want.

Also on the topic of armed citizens not standing up to a real army, perhaps you should read up on how Vietnam went for the US or how Falujah went, or how the Russians fared in Afghanistan

If you are making threats and saying your going to rape and skin people then sorry you lose your right to buy weapons. Just like these kids who think its cool to make bomb threats. If you want to be a moron then there are consequences. Someone mentioned about free speech. Sure you can yell fire in a movie theater, but there will be consequences. Look at the comedian with the Trump cartoon. She got visited by the secret service.
As for the army vietnam had an army and home turf, plus we could have destroyed vietnam if we wanted to, but we played mostly by the rules. Same goes for the other examples you mentioned. Russia could wipe Afghanistan off the map, but would be killing many innocent people in the process.
As for weapons your saying its ok for normal civilians to own tanks, fighter jets, bazookas, nuclear bombs etc etc according to the second amendment.... That is just non-sense.

 

[Supersteeler]

You make an interesting observation. I wonder what the ratio of kids on ADD/ADHD/anxiety/depression medications is between lower class and middle/upper class populations. It seems like a suburban thing.

Upper/middle class parents are probably more likely to actually take their kid to a psychologist to have them evaluated for a possible diagnosis and / or medication. But like Vader said, there are still tons of poor kids taking meds for ADHD, depression, and other behavioral issues.

 

[Roy92040]

Upper/middle class parents are probably more likely to actually take their kid to a psychologist to have them evaluated for a possible diagnosis and / or medication. But like Vader said, there are still tons of poor kids taking meds for ADHD, depression, and other behavioral issues.

Maybe the government should develop a web site for parents to visit if they think their children are a little out of it. I think it's important to realize when their children are having a problem in that area. I think most parents don't want to believe there is something wrong with their children. The web site could answer questions parents might have about their children's strange behavior. It could tell them when it's time to worry. It could also discuss treatments and resources available.

 

[thesteelcity]

If you are making threats and saying your going to rape and skin people then sorry you lose your right to buy weapons. Just like these kids who think its cool to make bomb threats. If you want to be a moron then there are consequences. Someone mentioned about free speech. Sure you can yell fire in a movie theater, but there will be consequences. Look at the comedian with the Trump cartoon. She got visited by the secret service.
As for the army vietnam had an army and home turf, plus we could have destroyed vietnam if we wanted to, but we played mostly by the rules. Same goes for the other examples you mentioned. Russia could wipe Afghanistan off the map, but would be killing many innocent people in the process.
As for weapons your saying its ok for normal civilians to own tanks, fighter jets, bazookas, nuclear bombs etc etc according to the second amendment.... That is just non-sense.

There is clearly a disconnect somewhere. It's hard to believe that no flags came up in his background. If he's never been arrested or had a psych evaluation, what would come up from him? Do schools report this behavior of his Hit List to the police? And, it should go into some data base for the FBI. I'm asking because I really don't know what really is in a background check.

 

[21STEELERS21]

Don't think the forefathers imagined a President that spreads hate either or uses it for political gain.

 

[Superman]

Don't think the forefathers imagined a President that spreads hate either or uses it for political gain.

please catch up to the rest of the class. Donald J Trump is POTUS now, not Barack Obama.

 

[Superman]

If you are making threats and saying your going to rape and skin people then sorry you lose your right to buy weapons. Just like these kids who think its cool to make bomb threats. If you want to be a moron then there are consequences. Someone mentioned about free speech. Sure you can yell fire in a movie theater, but there will be consequences. Look at the comedian with the Trump cartoon. She got visited by the secret service.

the problem with this is that the Left is so readily wanting to forgive criminal pasts of people convicted in a court of law and reinstate their rights after serving their time.
Compare that to your scenario. Kid makes a list or calls in a bomb threat when he's 13 or 14 thinking he's funny and cool. Gets caught and for the rest of his life is unable to have a gun. I dont believe any kid 13 or 14 years old is capable of making life-altering decisions. It's not like he's 16 and the Left want to give him the opportunity to vote.

 

[Spike]

THEY aren't gonna like this


Dayton gunman was fan 'of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren'

Donald Trump can't resist pointing out that Dayton gunman was fan 'of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren' as he and Melania mourn weekend's mass shootings and meet survivors in Dayton

'I would like to stay out of the political fray. As I was saying and just came out, the Dayton situation, he was a fan of ANITFA. He was a fan of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Nothing to do with Trump, but nobody ever mentions that. No, I don't blame Elizabeth Warren and I don't blame Bernie Sanders in the case of Ohio.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...g-left-wing-leanings-Dayton-mass-shooter.html

----------------------------

Blowing the cover off
can't hide it now

 

[oneforthebus]

There is clearly a disconnect somewhere. It's hard to believe that no flags came up in his background. If he's never been arrested or had a psych evaluation, what would come up from him? Do schools report this behavior of his Hit List to the police? And, it should go into some data base for the FBI. I'm asking because I really don't know what really is in a background check.

From what I understand only a felony criminal conviction or being involuntary committed for violent mental illness will come up on any background check.

 

[Sarge]

Well, here before long, neighbors are going to start ratting out neighbors in an effort to have guns confiscated. It has bipartisan support. Better not tell anyone that you own guns.