You were saying?
For those who'd lump all religions together
- Thread starter Tim Steelersfan
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You were saying?
I knew it would be stunning.
The most stupendous beauty of Dolezal's recent cosmic melt down is that this thread is pointedly about stopping the comparisons between Christianity and Islam. Nothing more.
In psychotic style, Elfie delivers one of her/his classic "beat downs" about how Christianity isn't beautiful.
Another rage-filled, racist diatribe, this time about...nothing we are covering.
Aaaannndddd...thank you for playing.
In psychotic style, Elfie delivers one of her/his classic "beat downs" about how Christianity isn't beautiful.
Another rage-filled, racist diatribe, this time about...nothing we are covering.
Aaaannndddd...thank you for playing.
Wow. Nazis were bad. Who knew.
Ooh! Look a gerbil!
Hey another gerbil! This one even takes selfies!
Instead of denigrating Christianity (indeed "Look, a squirrel"), why don't you address the topic at hand in this thread? Do you see fundamental differences between Islam and Christianity, or are you one of the fools who lump them together, overlooking the obvious fundamental differences?
Christianity is about 700 years older than Islam and has gone through its period of reformation already. It's era of brutality is over.
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You have really gone off the rails.
Yes, you have posted a lot of stuff that shows that Nazis tried to link Christianity with white supremacy. No one denies that.
What you have not done is show that they were mostly motivated by religious fervor, church teachings, church leadership or Biblical teaching.
What you have basically shown is exactly what I said...the Nazis were Aryan supremacists and eugenicists who employed Christian symbolism and vague references to Christianity to justify their hatred. You have shown nothing that proved Nazism was related in any way shape or form to any sort of organized religion. If Nazism = Christianity why did the Nazis persecute Catholics?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Germany
The Roman Catholic Church suffered persecution in Nazi Germany. As a totalitarian ideology, the Nazis claimed jurisdiction over all collective and social activity, interfering with Catholic schooling, youth groups, workers' clubs and cultural societies.[1] Nazi ideology could not accept an autonomous establishment, whose legitimacy did not spring from the government. It desired the subordination of the church to the state.[2] The Nazi leadership hoped to dechristianise Germany in the long term.[3] Aggressive anti-Church radicals like Propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels, Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler and Hitler's "deputy" Martin Bormann saw the kirchenkampf campaign against the Churches as a priority concern, and anti-church and anticlerical sentiments were strong among grassroots party activists.[4][5] Hitler himself also held radical instincts on the Church Question, but was prepared to restrain his anticlericalism out of political considerations, seeing dangers in strengthening the church through persecution.[6][7]
A threatening, if initially mainly sporadic persecution of the Church followed the Nazi takeover. Hitler moved quickly to eliminate Political Catholicism, and thousands were arrested. Despite continuing molestation of Catholic clergy, and organisations following the appointment of Hitler as Chancellor by President von Hindenburg, the Vatican was anxious to reach a legal agreement with the new government, in order to protect the rights of the Church in Germany.[8] The resulting Reich concordat was violated almost immediately. The Nazis moved to dissolve the Catholic youth leagues and clergy, nuns and lay leaders began to be targeted, leading to thousands of arrests over the ensuing years, often on trumped up charges of currency smuggling or "immorality". Catholic aligned political parties in Germany, along with all other parties, were outlawed in 1933, and Catholic lay leaders were targeted in Hitler's 1934 Night of the Long Knives purge. By 1937, Pope Pius XI's Mit brennender Sorge encyclical was accusing the regime of sowing "fundamental hostility to Christ and his Church".
By 1940, a dedicated clergy barracks had been established by the Nazis at Dachau Concentration Camp. Of a total of 2,720 clergy recorded as imprisoned at Dachau, the overwhelming majority, some 2,579 (or 94.88%) were Catholic - among them 400 German priests. Catholic schools in Germany were phased out by 1939 and Catholic press by 1941. With the expansion of the war in the East from 1941, there came also an expansion of the regime's attack on the Church in Germany. Monasteries and convents were targeted and expropriation of Church properties surged. The Jesuits were especially targeted.[9] The German bishops accused the Reich Government of "unjust oppression and hated struggle against Christianity and the Church".
In the Polish areas annexed by Nazi Germany a severe persecution was launched from 1939. Here the Nazis set about systematically dismantling the Church - arresting its leaders, exiling its clergymen, closing its churches, monasteries and convents. Many clergymen were murdered. At least 1811 Polish clergy died in Nazi concentration camps. Hitler's plans for the Germanization of the East saw no place for the Christian Churches. The Church was also harshly treated in other annexed regions such as in Austria under the Gauleiter of Vienna, Odilo Globocnik, who confiscated property, closed Catholic organisations and sent many priests to Dachau; and in the Czech lands where religious orders were suppressed, schools closed, religious instruction forbidden and priests sent to concentration camps.
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To reiterate:
At least 1811 Polish clergy died in Nazi concentration camps. Hitler's plans for the Germanization of the East saw no place for the Christian Churches. The Church was also harshly treated in other annexed regions such as in Austria under the Gauleiter of Vienna, Odilo Globocnik, who confiscated property, closed Catholic organisations and sent many priests to Dachau; and in the Czech lands where religious orders were suppressed, schools closed, religious instruction forbidden and priests sent to concentration camps.
What they said and claimed to the public about being motivated by Christianity was very different from what they actually practiced.
At least 1811 Polish clergy died in Nazi concentration camps. Hitler's plans for the Germanization of the East saw no place for the Christian Churches. The Church was also harshly treated in other annexed regions such as in Austria under the Gauleiter of Vienna, Odilo Globocnik, who confiscated property, closed Catholic organisations and sent many priests to Dachau; and in the Czech lands where religious orders were suppressed, schools closed, religious instruction forbidden and priests sent to concentration camps.
What they said and claimed to the public about being motivated by Christianity was very different from what they actually practiced.
I was going to save some of that scripture to use on steeltime, but i hate to beat a dead jackass.
/ drops mic yet again and heads to his comfy bed with a big smirk on face/
Again, I'm going to assume you didn't read the earlier post where Gall in the first quote from a Nazi leader clearly states before hand that it was a private memo sent out to that region. It was not public.
Also as far as what they claimed and what they were....I'm assuming you are arrogant enough to believe you are better informed than Gall because....yes you skimmed a wikipedia article and he has only spent years researching the subject.
Once again:
Indeed, none of the Nazis who proclaimed a positive attitude toward Christianity in public revealed themselves as anti-Christian in private. Therefore the insistence that the Nazis practiced "sheer opportunism" or placed a "tactical restraint" on their supposed hatred for Christianity "which had been imposed during the years of struggle to achieve power" cannot be sustained--- From the book, The Holy Reich, Richard Steigmann-Gall[/I]
That they killed polish priests could have been just because they were Slavic. If they killed them because they were political enemies it still doesn't nullify their Christianity.
Homophobe!
Aaaand, surprise, you still don't get it. Could it have been that pharaoh's atrocious treatment of the Jews and his unwillingness to stop BY HIS OWN CHOICE that God hardened his heart? Free will does NOT mean unlimited free **** ups.......especially when it leads to so many innocents dead. I swear you must be ******* retarded to not grasp this.....whatever you are, "rational" does not apply. As for the "educated" part of your self descriptors, the world is rife with "educated" idiots. Welcome to their ranks.
They were, and never will be the same. But your premise that we as people still "learn" at the same rate we did 600 years ago is flawed.
Hey, I can cut and paste too!
<header class="article_header module" style="margin: 0px 10px 6px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 10px; vertical-align: baseline; box-sizing: border-box; position: relative; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; background: 0px 0px;">
Why Hitler Wished He Was Muslim
The Führer admired Atatürk’s subordination of religion to the state—and his ruthless treatment of minorities.
It’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion,” Hitler complained to his pet architect Albert Speer. “Why did it have to be Christianity, with its meekness and flabbiness?”Islam was a Männerreligion—a“religion of men”—and hygienic too. The “soldiers of Islam”received a warrior’s heaven, “a real earthly paradise” with“houris” and “wine flowing.” This, Hitler argued, was much more suited to the “Germanic temperament” than the “Jewish filth and priestly twaddle” of Christianity.
For decades, historians have seen Hitler’s Beer Hall Putsch of 1923 as emulating Mussolini’s 1922 March on Rome. Not so, says Stefan Ihrigin “Atatürk in the Nazi Imagination.” Hitler also had Turkey in mind—and not just the 1908 march of the Young Turks on Constantinople, which brought down a government. After 1917, the bankrupt, defeated and cosmopolitan Ottoman Empire contracted into avigorous “Turanic” nation-state. In the early 1920s, the new Turkey was the first “revisionist” power to opt out of the postwar system, retaking lost lands on the Syrian coast and control over the Strait of the Dardanelles. Hitler, Mr. Ihrig writes, saw Turkey as the model of a “prosperous and völkisch modern state.”
Through the 1920s and 1930s, Nazi publications lauded Turkey as a friend and forerunner. In 1922, for example, the Völkischer Beobachter, the Nazi Party’s weekly paper, praised Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, the“Father of the Turks,” as a “real man,” embodying the “heroic spirit” and the Führerprinzip,or führer principle, that demanded absolute obedience. Atatürk’s subordination of Islam to the state anticipated Hitler’s strategy toward Christianity. The Nazis presented Turkey as stronger for having massacred its Armenians and expelling its Greeks. “Who,”Hitler asked in August 1939, “speaks today of the extermination of the Armenians?”
http://www.wsj.com/articles/book-review-ataturk-in-the-nazi-imagination-by-stefan-ihrig-and-islam-and-nazi-germanys-war-by-david-motadel-1421441724
</header>
<header class="article_header module" style="margin: 0px 10px 6px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 10px; vertical-align: baseline; box-sizing: border-box; position: relative; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; background: 0px 0px;">
Why Hitler Wished He Was Muslim
The Führer admired Atatürk’s subordination of religion to the state—and his ruthless treatment of minorities.
It’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion,” Hitler complained to his pet architect Albert Speer. “Why did it have to be Christianity, with its meekness and flabbiness?”Islam was a Männerreligion—a“religion of men”—and hygienic too. The “soldiers of Islam”received a warrior’s heaven, “a real earthly paradise” with“houris” and “wine flowing.” This, Hitler argued, was much more suited to the “Germanic temperament” than the “Jewish filth and priestly twaddle” of Christianity.
For decades, historians have seen Hitler’s Beer Hall Putsch of 1923 as emulating Mussolini’s 1922 March on Rome. Not so, says Stefan Ihrigin “Atatürk in the Nazi Imagination.” Hitler also had Turkey in mind—and not just the 1908 march of the Young Turks on Constantinople, which brought down a government. After 1917, the bankrupt, defeated and cosmopolitan Ottoman Empire contracted into avigorous “Turanic” nation-state. In the early 1920s, the new Turkey was the first “revisionist” power to opt out of the postwar system, retaking lost lands on the Syrian coast and control over the Strait of the Dardanelles. Hitler, Mr. Ihrig writes, saw Turkey as the model of a “prosperous and völkisch modern state.”
Through the 1920s and 1930s, Nazi publications lauded Turkey as a friend and forerunner. In 1922, for example, the Völkischer Beobachter, the Nazi Party’s weekly paper, praised Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, the“Father of the Turks,” as a “real man,” embodying the “heroic spirit” and the Führerprinzip,or führer principle, that demanded absolute obedience. Atatürk’s subordination of Islam to the state anticipated Hitler’s strategy toward Christianity. The Nazis presented Turkey as stronger for having massacred its Armenians and expelling its Greeks. “Who,”Hitler asked in August 1939, “speaks today of the extermination of the Armenians?”
http://www.wsj.com/articles/book-review-ataturk-in-the-nazi-imagination-by-stefan-ihrig-and-islam-and-nazi-germanys-war-by-david-motadel-1421441724
</header>
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You're either deliberately being obtuse or you just don't have reading comprehension skills. I never said the Nazis were "anti-Christianity", either publicly or privately. I said they weren't motivated by Christianity. They were motivated by eugenics. As you just reinforced, by saying the priests could have been killed because they were Slavic. Christianity did not matter to them except mainly as tool to incite hatred against Jews. They preyed upon anti-Semitic sentiment among Christians of the time in justifying their persecution of Jews, to be sure. The primary motivation of the Nazis was the creation of a pure, superior Aryan nation, a National Socialist State, it was not world domination of the Christian religion. Where Christian institutions interfered with that goal they were persecuted and destroyed. Where they could be used to advance it they were embraced.
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2007/11/the_nazis_and_christianity.html
Our resident JewFrican Indian schizophrenic is employing the Steel Vanguard, Lefty approach. Change the subject, argue the new point he/she introduces, then claim everyone else is changing the subject.
The original topic of the thread was dispelling the notion that Christianity and Islam are similar/violent teaching religions. That is the debate.
Dolezal has tried to change the subject away from this discussion to convince us all that Christianity "isn't beautiful." Religion, bad pass me club, ugggh, ugggh...grunt grunt.
You're correct OFTB, btw. Christianity influenced the Nazis to the same degree Liberalism, Socialism, and Nationalism did, and just as as much as PMS, the flu, the climate, and education affected what we now know as the Nazi movement. Hitler and the Nazis were not, as you indicate OFTB, driven by Christianity. Influenced by? Sure. To what degree? Up for debate. Hell, Islam influenced the Nazis too. There were tens of thousands of influences.
Then again, that isn't the point of the thread.
But as the JewFrican Indian likes to say, in her/it's attempts to divert the discussion, "Hey, look, squirrel!" This is his tactic.
No... Absolutely not.
First, in the second part that I highlighted red you admit that Christianity can be used as a tool for inciting hatred, bravo!
Second, in that same part you regress because of your Christian bias ,and say that" They preyed upon anti-Semitic sentiment among Christians of the time "
NO I have shown unequivocally that German anti-semitism goes back at least to the time of Luther who got it from the New Testament.
Do I need to post all of Luther's " On the Jews and Their Lies " ? Do i need to repeat the new testament passages that incite hatred toward jews? Or will you just ignore it again?
Below is the first post of your interaction with me ,which is on page 4 of this thread.
Why would Hitler need faux(that means fake for you CONservatives) Christianity as an excuse to persecute jews when you clearly tell us above that " They preyed upon anti-Semitic sentiment among Christians of the time " ?
An agnostic,.. faux Christianity?
I proved without a "shadow of a doubt "that Hitler and the Nazis were "real Christians" according to new testament doctrine.
Here's a bonus quote for the slow learners here as far as your claim of Hitler rejecting Catholiscm:
“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”
Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941
What is the only requirement to be a "real christian"? It's believing isn't it? I clearly showed that earlier; in Galatians and Romans.
Did he believe? Oh yeah....
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders----Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922
By the way when is the Catholic church planning to excommunicate Hitler?
They excommunicated Goebbels just for marrying a Protestant..........
Hitler inciting violence against the Jews....its all good for Pius XII, but marrying a protestant...oh no.
Why did the Catholic church smuggle Nazis to South America AFTER the war had come to an end?
Why if they were so persecuted by the Nazis and were fully aware of the great evils they had committed, and knowing the Nazis could no longer hurt them ,would they help them escape???????
You won't answer of course , so I will:
Birds of a feather flock together.................
So then you ran to this:
Again, no. I've shown exactly that as I stated above.
Why did the Nazis persecute catholics?
Again, the implication being that if Christians act immorally against Christians, then they can't be Christians. See below......
I clearly showed you that Christians persecute Christians every day, again how did some of the 90% american prison population end up there? Was it by killing only atheists?
Are they no longer christians.?
What more of an idiotic statement can you declare than " You have shown nothing that proved Nazism was related in any way shape or form to any sort of organized religion."
The Nazis by an overwhelming majority belonged to organized religion. How can you say that?
They started their own denomination , the
Deutsche Christen.
With Nazi support, the Deutsche Christen won two thirds of the vote in the 1932 church elections, claimed a membership of 600,000 pastors, bishops, professors of theology, religion teachers, and laity, and were aiming to supplant the Catholic and Protestant churches
As far as eugenics; I will get to that next as you are under the illusion that following that course will save Christianity from being associated with the Nazis.
Actually the eugenics the Nazis speak of COME FROM THE BIBLE!
/drops mic, mic is now completely bent and mangled from beating in the empty skulls of S.N. CONservatives......walks off smirk still intact/
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I haven't gotten anywhere near to the "Christianity is beautiful" nonsense yet because first I had to dismiss the " Nazis weren't christian" nonsense.
Don't worry Skippy/bigot you'll get the reaming you're craving soon.
I've been consistent from my first post:The Muslim fascist resurgence was rekindled by the association with
their christian brethren in the third reich.
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Radical Islam has been going on for thousands of years prior to the Nazis. The Crusades were a retaliation for centuries of Muslim attacks on Christianity.
Save your breath trying to somehow tie today's radical Islam to the 1940s. Radical Islam is many centuries old. Why? Because it's Islam's teaching.
When you Liberals wake up to the fact that Islam teaches its followers to BE violent, you can save yourself the time and energy of trying to parse history to make it fit your ****** up modern narrative.
They are the same. Just because secular humanism has dragged American Christians kicking and screaming toward semi-decency doesn't mean the recent past is forgotten.
Just 60 years ago american Christians were burning, lynching, shooting, etc. Black people by night then showing up for service on Sunday morning. All supported by their cherry picking of scripture. Many times pastors and local law enforcement involved.
All religion is f**** up. Period.
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Hey, dumbfuck, your references are solely to the old testament.
You want to know the clear demarcation between Christians and non-Christians? "Christ." It's right there in the name of the religion, asslick.
You want to know where Christ is referenced in the Bible? The New Testament. So as I asked more than a week ago:
Still waiting ...
[Picks up mic, rams it up elfiePolo's ***, and sends him to bed]
so elfie is now transgender?
transgender indian/african-american/jewish?
gotta be some kind of record.
transgender indian/african-american/jewish?
gotta be some kind of record.
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