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Tomlin....he's driving a proud organization straight in to the ground.

I used to think Kordell had blackmail pictures on Cowher because he started 2 years longer then he should have. Cowhers teams at least came ready to smash. They didn't play down to garbage teams either, they ******* stomped them. I haven't completely given up on Tomlin,but i'm close.
 
I used to think Kordell had blackmail pictures on Cowher because he started 2 years longer then he should have. Cowhers teams at least came ready to smash. They didn't play down to garbage teams either, they ******* stomped them. I haven't completely given up on Tomlin,but i'm close.


I was close to then the Tampa game cemented it. Three years of the same result has me thinking he is what he is a mediocre coach. Good for a team fanbase that is used to their team winning three to four games a year, but bad for a fanbase that expects more than a .500 record.
 
Just curious. Were some of you guys this supportive of Cowher when he lost the '01 AFCC after telling his team during the week before to make their Super Bowl arrangements?

I think some of you are being very disingenuous. I remember being on the board in those years. I was one of the few still supporting Cowher. I remember making a smart *** remark about the fact they found that Cowher was on the grassy knoll, too, what with all the blame he got for everything. You woulda thought I slept with a few of those guys wives the way they came at me. Much like the heat the guys are getting now that show even the slightest support for Tomlin.

They get heat now because they have no support for their reasoning. When pressed for Tomlin's strengths, almost all of them ignore the question. The ones who do answer say stuff about "leadership" despite the team going down the toilet under that leadership. Then they say Tomlin's improving, it's only been 7+ years, there are glimmers of hope, cut him some slack. Then they talk about Cowher. Then they say we're all just racist and peace out from the discussion.
 
If we spoiled, impatient douchebags would just be patient, we'll see Tomlin's Plan. It takes roughly 8 years to materialize, but it will all make sense someday.

And after 8 years is up, then it will be ten years, fifteen years,...we just don't see the brilliance that is Mr. Obvious. Obviously.

We have a bad team with bad coaches with bad habits and bad attitudes sucking up to a bad commissioner.

The arrow is trending downward.
 
The present situation with the Steelers reminds me more of the early '80s.

Now, I know Noll was one of the greatest, and I am not comparing Tomlin to Noll, However, the Steelers didn't draft great talent from about '75 to '86. I mean great talent. They got some solid players here and there. Which brings me to my point, which is I just think organizations go through this here and again. Slumps. Noll didn't forget how to coach. This is why I don't run around calling for Tomlin's head. However, if they do fire him, I won't lose any sleep.

A theory advanced here is that maybe bringing in a new face in to coach, a new outlook may change things. It very well may. The question I have if we could go back, would you have shown Noll the door at about 1985? I know one response may be that Noll earned the right and so on. That is a crock of ****, though. As we all know it is about winning, right? And Noll wasn't winning. And don't forget how bad an inept a few of those years looked.
 
The present situation with the Steelers reminds me more of the early '80s.

Now, I know Noll was one of the greatest, and I am not comparing Tomlin to Noll, However, the Steelers didn't draft great talent from about '75 to '86. I mean great talent. They got some solid players here and there. Which brings me to my point, which is I just think organizations go through this here and again. Slumps. Noll didn't forget how to coach. This is why I don't run around calling for Tomlin's head. However, if they do fire him, I won't lose any sleep.

A theory advanced here is that maybe bringing in a new face in to coach, a new outlook may change things. It very well may. The question I have if we could go back, would you have shown Noll the door at about 1985? I know one response may be that Noll earned the right and so on. That is a crock of ****, though. As we all know it is about winning, right? And Noll wasn't winning. And don't forget how bad an inept a few of those years looked.

Now,

Noooowww...now what?
 
The present situation with the Steelers reminds me more of the early '80s.

Now, I know Noll was one of the greatest, and I am not comparing Tomlin to Noll, However, the Steelers didn't draft great talent from about '75 to '86. I mean great talent. They got some solid players here and there. Which brings me to my point, which is I just think organizations go through this here and again. Slumps. Noll didn't forget how to coach. This is why I don't run around calling for Tomlin's head. However, if they do fire him, I won't lose any sleep.

A theory advanced here is that maybe bringing in a new face in to coach, a new outlook may change things. It very well may. The question I have if we could go back, would you have shown Noll the door at about 1985? I know one response may be that Noll earned the right and so on. That is a crock of ****, though. As we all know it is about winning, right? And Noll wasn't winning. And don't forget how bad an inept a few of those years looked.

Noll had done it before, so he had proven he could do it.

Tomlin has never done close to "it," so it's only assumption to believe he can do it.

You asked earlier why Tomlin-lovers take so much heat. No offense, but this post is the reason. No description of Tomlin's strengths.. no reasoning as to why we should believe Tomlin can turn things around.. no rebuttals of any of the anti-Tomlin arguments.. just "Well, maybe he can do it, so he deserves as long as it takes!"
 
I don't think Tomlin is a good head coach, but how much does Rooney care?

May be just about coin at this point and nothing else...hope I'm wrong but just asking/saying
 
Noll had done it before, so he had proven he could do it.

Tomlin has never done close to "it," so it's only assumption to believe he can do it.

You asked earlier why Tomlin-lovers take so much heat. No offense, but this post is the reason. No description of Tomlin's strengths.. no reasoning as to why we should believe Tomlin can turn things around.. no rebuttals of any of the anti-Tomlin arguments.. just "Well, maybe he can do it, so he deserves as long as it takes!"

No offense taken. But let me ask you this. In 1986, the Steelers started 1-6 if I remember correctly. At that time, if you were around then (don't know how old you are) I don't think too many people were stating Noll's strengths. In fact, he made the front cover of SI around that time with Don Shula asking if the game had passed them by. In other words, maybe at one time he had them, but they went away was the theory. I think to be fair you have to put yourself in the context of the time.

As it pertains to a coaches strengths, I just look at it differently. Noll's strength, Cowher's, Tomlin's when they won, Lombardi's, Walsh, whoever you want to pick, their strength was good players. They have all looked ordinary when the overall talent of the team was lacking.

I think what has caught up to the Steelers, among other things, is they made Tomlin keep what was there as it pertains to coaches and philosophies, at least defensively. It surely worked out, with two SBs and one championship. But now it has caught them. Tomlin is going to be here. Better get used to it. As such, I think they should allow him to implement on defense what he knows best, and see if the guy can really coach.

Lastly, what are you trying to prove? What are we willing to do? Those of you who are so against Tomlin, are you going to stop watching and going to games? What can we do to have an impact on who they keep as head coach? Anything? Even if you change everybody's opinion on this board it will have no impact on what the Steelers do. So what is your agenda?
 
What caught up to them was drafting poorly. Tomlin has had 8 years to try and restock what he was given and he has failed. Two draft classes entirely gone. Draft busts like Hood and underachievers like Worilds have caught up to him.
 
No offense taken. But let me ask you this. In 1986, the Steelers started 1-6 if I remember correctly. At that time, if you were around then (don't know how old you are) I don't think too many people were stating Noll's strengths. In fact, he made the front cover of SI around that time with Don Shula asking if the game had passed them by. In other words, maybe at one time he had them, but they went away was the theory. I think to be fair you have to put yourself in the context of the time.

None of that is relevant, because Noll had already done it. Besides, Noll's coaching strengths were very evident. He built a team from scratch, turning the league's worst into the greatest of all-time in his very first attempt at doing so. He swept clean the trash of the previous era (in a harsh, matter-of-fact way) and built the team HE wanted.

Noll of course floundered in acquiring talent from the late 70s to mid-80s. But that happens to everyone. The reason Tomlin doesn't get a free pass (while Noll, Shula, and even many of today's good coaches do) is because Tomlin has NEVER done it. Ever. He's never come close. The only great player he's drafted is Antonio Brown; no others, not even the ultra-promising ones like Woodley/Wallace/Pouncey, ever reached the next level. In fact, most of them regressed. And when you compare that minimal success to the extraordinary failures at the top of his drafts, it's even worse. There's no denying we had a top-level roster in 2007, that it's fallen apart since, and that now it's starved for talent. No denying that our stance in the league has gone from perennial SB contender to playoff contender to non-playoff team to poor team.

That's why Tomlin doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, or the assumption that he'll wake up tomorrow and do it successfully. If you work your job for 7-8 years and suck at it, and your boss calls you out, can you tell him "Just trust me bro! I can totally do it"?

As it pertains to a coaches strengths, I just look at it differently. Noll's strength, Cowher's, Tomlin's when they won, Lombardi's, Walsh, whoever you want to pick, their strength was good players. They have all looked ordinary when the overall talent of the team was lacking.

That's misleading. Most of the great coaches had great players because they acquired and developed them. You can't hold Noll's playing talent against him, because he's the one who implemented that talent. That'd be like saying "Joe Montana was only a great QB because he won some MVPs and all of his Super Bowls."

Besides, there have been plenty of coaches who have won with good, though not top-notch, talent. And Tomlin has overseen some spectacular failures even with great offensive and defensive talent in its prime. A HOF QB in his prime, great receivers, a punishing D, etc.

I think what has caught up to the Steelers, among other things, is they made Tomlin keep what was there as it pertains to coaches and philosophies, at least defensively. It surely worked out, with two SBs and one championship. But now it has caught them. Tomlin is going to be here. Better get used to it. As such, I think they should allow him to implement on defense what he knows best, and see if the guy can really coach.

Seems to me after 7+ years that the team doesn't trust him to do that. Not a good sign, considering the Rooneys gave Cowher full reign to create his own team as he saw fit. With Tomlin, either (a) the team doesn't trust him to implement his own systems, or (b) he's possibly the only coach in history with an ownership so rigid he doesn't get ANY gameplanning freedom IN HIS EIGHTH SEASON.

And why should they trust him like that? Dude had one year of DC experience, and his Viking D was bad that year. His in-game coaching flubs are so glaring they'd be comical if I weren't a Steeler fan. And his raggedy attempts at adding defensive talent - Hood, Worilds, Jarvis, Bruce Davis, his CB pet projects, etc. - don't inspire much confidence. What track record does the guy have that the Steelers should be banking on?

Lastly, what are you trying to prove? What are we willing to do? Those of you who are so against Tomlin, are you going to stop watching and going to games? What can we do to have an impact on who they keep as head coach? Anything? Even if you change everybody's opinion on this board it will have no impact on what the Steelers do. So what is your agenda?

Why the hell does this board even exist?
 
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Even if you change everybody's opinion on this board it will have no impact on what the Steelers do. So what is your agenda?

Agenda??...um...i guess to discuss Steelers football?

"Agenda", he says. Christ.
 
No offense taken. But let me ask you this. In 1986, the Steelers started 1-6 if I remember correctly. At that time, if you were around then (don't know how old you are) I don't think too many people were stating Noll's strengths. In fact, he made the front cover of SI around that time with Don Shula asking if the game had passed them by. In other words, maybe at one time he had them, but they went away was the theory. I think to be fair you have to put yourself in the context of the time.

As it pertains to a coaches strengths, I just look at it differently. Noll's strength, Cowher's, Tomlin's when they won, Lombardi's, Walsh, whoever you want to pick, their strength was good players. They have all looked ordinary when the overall talent of the team was lacking.

I think what has caught up to the Steelers, among other things, is they made Tomlin keep what was there as it pertains to coaches and philosophies, at least defensively. It surely worked out, with two SBs and one championship. But now it has caught them. Tomlin is going to be here. Better get used to it. As such, I think they should allow him to implement on defense what he knows best, and see if the guy can really coach.

Lastly, what are you trying to prove? What are we willing to do? Those of you who are so against Tomlin, are you going to stop watching and going to games? What can we do to have an impact on who they keep as head coach? Anything? Even if you change everybody's opinion on this board it will have no impact on what the Steelers do. So what is your agenda?

It is a message board, people discuss things and share their opinions with each other, why would we require an agenda to do that?
 
It is a message board, people discuss things and share their opinions with each other, why would we require an agenda to do that?

Instead of worrying about the term "agenda," why not answer the question? What is to be accomplished here? What do you hope to accomplish with all the Tomlin bashing? If you are trying to change minds, then there is an agenda.
 
Instead of worrying about the term "agenda," why not answer the question? What is to be accomplished here? What do you hope to accomplish with all the Tomlin bashing? If you are trying to change minds, then there is an agenda.

What do you hope to accomplish with the Tomlin support? Do you think it will strengthen his standing with the team? Make him feel better at night?

I'm sure you'll tell me that supporting the team we love is the right thing to do.. focus on the positive.. etc. It's not about loving the guy v. hating the guy. This stuff is mostly subjective, so the idea is to express one's opinion with some support and logic behind it. That's why I come here. I can (and do) yell "Go Steelers" and pull for the team to succeed any time I want. I'm here to discuss it with others. And I'm not some Raven troll here to start ****, so my being here and holding these opinions isn't any less sensible than yours is. And at least I've got some reasoning behind my stance.

Don't mean to go off on you specifically. But you're about the 491st poster on here to question WHY someone would go on a Steeler board and GASP! be critical of the Steelers.
 
Again, I do not object to them firing Tomlin, or the idea of it. I agree he is not doing a very good job. I just don't believe everything is going to be happy days and roses with another guy. And I really think that with some of the venom here, people will expect that. Maybe not some of you who actually make a valid argument, but those in the "It's all on Tomlin" crowd. Because if all this is just on Tomlin, if you take that literally, then a new coach will have them winning SBs immediately.
 
What do you hope to accomplish with the Tomlin support? Do you think it will strengthen his standing with the team? Make him feel better at night?

I'm sure you'll tell me that supporting the team we love is the right thing to do.. focus on the positive.. etc. It's not about loving the guy v. hating the guy. This stuff is mostly subjective, so the idea is to express one's opinion with some support and logic behind it. That's why I come here. I can (and do) yell "Go Steelers" and pull for the team to succeed any time I want. I'm here to discuss it with others. And I'm not some Raven troll here to start ****, so my being here and holding these opinions isn't any less sensible than yours is. And at least I've got some reasoning behind my stance.

Don't mean to go off on you specifically. But you're about the 491st poster on here to question WHY someone would go on a Steeler board and GASP! be critical of the Steelers.

I am certainly not a rah/rah guy. If you watched a game with me, it wouldn't take to long to discern that.

However, I am pragmatic. I know there is nothing I can do, even if I was as adamant as you for Tomlin to be fired. Nothing. So, I keep my criticism to a limit. I have been a Steeler fan since the early '70s. I have been through the making myself miserable part. I guess I just refuse to do that.

There should be a joy to being a fan, right?
 
I am certainly not a rah/rah guy. If you watched a game with me, it wouldn't take to long to discern that.

However, I am pragmatic. I know there is nothing I can do, even if I was as adamant as you for Tomlin to be fired. Nothing. So, I keep my criticism to a limit. I have been a Steeler fan since the early '70s. I have been through the making myself miserable part. I guess I just refuse to do that.

There should be a joy to being a fan, right?

Well that's all well and good. I respect that stance. But it's hard for me to feel that joy when the team sucks dick. I was as gleeful as anyone when we were a successful team, but now I just don't get that buzz while we're protecting a last-minute 24-20 lead at home against the league's worst team.

I'll admit it: I was not in a good mood after we held on to beat the Browns. Relieved, yes. Happy about the team's direction and hopeful for the future, not a bit.
 
What caught up to them was drafting poorly. Tomlin has had 8 years to try and restock what he was given and he has failed. Two draft classes entirely gone. Draft busts like Hood and underachievers like Worilds have caught up to him.
Yeah, you're right, Tomlin single-handedly does the draft each year, it's all on him. He sits there by himself in his locked office the whole weekend and makes all the draft picks. On Monday, he staggers out with Colbert, the Steelers scouts, position coaches, the Rooneys, everyone nervously pacing back and forth. They call out to him "Hey Mike, how did it go in there, who'd we pick this year?"
 
Well that's all well and good. I respect that stance. But it's hard for me to feel that joy when the team sucks dick. I was as gleeful as anyone when we were a successful team, but now I just don't get that buzz while we're protecting a last-minute 24-20 lead at home against the league's worst team.

I'll admit it: I was not in a good mood after we held on to beat the Browns. Relieved, yes. Happy about the team's direction and hopeful for the future, not a bit.

I understand the issues. This is a deeply flawed team. Offense is better than defense, but still flawed. But defensively, they are a mess. It seems to me that they have multiple guys for a few positions, and then really nobody for other ones, if that makes sense. For example, I was thinking the other day about their lack of pass rush. Would it be possible to move Shazier, when he gets healthy, outside, to at least take advantage of his speed? One would think he could get around the edge. But I would think he would have to play where they have Jarvis Jones. I thought Jones was beginning to show a little something before he got hurt. But I don't see Jones playing the other side, either. And Worilds, ****, they might as well run an oak tree out there for all he does.

I love to trout fish. When I go fishing, on the ride there, I am looking at the sky, the weather, thinking about water conditions and so on, and by the time I arrive I have myself thinking it will be a great day, I will catch loads of trout and probably a few big ones. Sometimes it happens, other times not so much. But thinking that way gives me more joy than thinking the day will suck.

I guess I try to approach the Steelers the same way.
 
Posted by Vader
What caught up to them was drafting poorly.

Article in BTSC tells a tale that makes sense, if you ignore our recent drafts......any of this sound familiar ?

What's Wrong With The Steelers? Ask The Patriots!

Ah, entitlement. It's by definition an easy trap to fall into. In fact, you don't even have to fall into it; it's a trap that's built up around you while your team wins, and you find yourself stuck in when they start to lose. "What! These guys don't seem to be favorites for another Superbowl, this is unacceptable, fire them!" We've become so accustomed to dominance that we expect it to continue indefinitely. But that's not how it works in the NFL anymore.

Heck, that's not even how it worked in the NFL back in the halcyon days of yore. All good things come to an end. Even the Steel Curtain gave way to the Steelers of the 1980's. And parity is much more pronounced today. Just ask the Patriots, who could lay legitimate claim to the title "dynasty" through their consistent domination over the past 10 years plus with efficient quarterbacking, canny coaching, savvy personnel management, and shameless cheating. And now those Patriots are sitting with at 2-2 having lost a divisional matchup with a bad Dolphins team and been utterly demolished on national television by a fundamentally flawed and injury depleted Chiefs squad. The Patriots will be underdogs at home against the Bengals this Sunday. It's not just the past 4 games either. The Patriots once again made the playoffs last year, but their 12-4 record was supported by 5 victories by a FG or less and soft division, and their playoff appearance was once again brief. With such limited tools available as Julian Edelman and a broken down Gronkowski, there's no mistaking the fact that the Patriots are on the way down, not up.

You can blame the players for not executing. You can blame the coaches for not preparing. You can blame the GM for not acquiring talent. But there's another layer that's often overlooked. The players rely on their skills as tools of the trade, the coaches can only work with the players they're given, and (here's what's overlooked) the GM can only work with the tools he's given. The thing is, drafting in the bottom 3rd of the draft for 10 years in a row eventually takes it's toll, and holding together a veteran core makes it difficult to compete financially for free agents after that veteran core dissolves. The more success a team has the less they have to work with to build for the future. When good GM's and coaches start to struggle it's not because they've lost their edge, it's because the league is designed to handicap them in proportion to their success. Nobody can defy parity forever.

The Steelers are coming off a great run that earned them two Lombardi's and almost a third, and because of that they're fighting not just against other teams but also the handicaps imposed by the league on all good teams. The team managed to prevail against them for an unusually long time but it was inevitable that they would ultimately succumb. It's the life cycle of an NFL dynasty. What happened to the Steelers? No, it's not that Dick LeBeau got old or Kevin Colbert forgot how to draft. It's simply that the salary cap and reverse draft order did exactly what they're designed to, turn champions into 8-8 teams.
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...hats-wrong-with-the-steelers-ask-the-patriots
 
Yeah, you're right, Tomlin single-handedly does the draft each year, it's all on him. He sits there by himself in his locked office the whole weekend and makes all the draft picks. On Monday, he staggers out with Colbert, the Steelers scouts, position coaches, the Rooneys, everyone nervously pacing back and forth. They call out to him "Hey Mike, how did it go in there, who'd we pick this year?"
Except that Colbert seemed to draft pretty well until Captain Obvious arrived.
 
I love how everyone conviently forgets how easy the Steelers had it when it came to drafting 3-4 defensive players. They were one of the very few playing it. We kept Linebackers because we didnt have to worry about other teams drafting them. We knew they would be there cause they only fit our scheme. Now those same guys are going much higher because there are way more teams playing the 3-4.
 
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