Pickett or the offense?

[SteelerSask2]

If your thinking it's Pickett.......I was watching a Caleb Williams film cut. Got me thinking. Wonder if there is film on KP. I watched Is Kenny Pickett the best Qb. In college football. I'm not going to talk about whether he was. But I am going to say that the throws he was being asked to make were very different then on the Steelers. I feel they shackled him to avoid what Tomlin fears most. Turnovers.

 

[MT~Forged]

If your thinking it's Pickett.......I was watching a Caleb Williams film cut. Got me thinking. Wonder if there is film on KP. I watched Is Kenny Pickett the best Qb. In college football. I'm not going to talk about whether he was. But I am going to say that the throws he was being asked to make were very different then on the Steelers. I feel they shackled him to avoid what Tomlin fears most. Turnovers.

Ya think? Tomlin’s whole philosophy is to play not to lose.

 

[SteelerSask2]

Ya think? Tomlin’s whole philosophy is to play not to lose.

But I'm seeing a lot of Kenny Pickett hate. Some here some in media. In my opinion he did what he was told to do to win the games. And by the way when that gets beat into you it isn't easy to turn on the gunslinger when you get down 14.

 

[diver]

If your thinking it's Pickett.......I was watching a Caleb Williams film cut. Got me thinking. Wonder if there is film on KP. I watched Is Kenny Pickett the best Qb. In college football. I'm not going to talk about whether he was. But I am going to say that the throws he was being asked to make were very different then on the Steelers. I feel they shackled him to avoid what Tomlin fears most. Turnovers.

Perhaps. But did it work? They were 7-4 with Pickett. So just in that sense I would argue it did work. Would they have been 7-4 if they took all kinds of chances and turned the ball over? Probably not.

When Tomlin had a Qb he felt he could trust more, he didn't shackle him.

Look, I'm not defending Tomlin. But I said somewhere else there is a little bit of an inconsistency here. On one hand people are arguing that Pickett sucks and Canada sucked. I certainly agree about Canada. But anyway, if that is the case, why the hell would Tomlin open it up and take chances? Would you if that is the case? Or is the argument that Pickett is a better player than some think?

 

[MT~Forged]

But I'm seeing a lot of Kenny Pickett hate. Some here some in media. In my opinion he did what he was told to do to win the games. And by the way when that gets beat into you it isn't easy to turn on the gunslinger when you get down 14.

Those same haters would have cheered cutting Unitas if it were today.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Perhaps. But did it work? They were 7-4 with Pickett. So just in that sense I would argue it did work. Would they have been 7-4 if they took all kinds of chances and turned the ball over? Probably not.

When Tomlin had a Qb he felt he could trust more, he didn't shackle him.

Look, I'm not defending Tomlin. But I said somewhere else there is a little bit of an inconsistency here. On one hand people are arguing that Pickett sucks and Canada sucked. I certainly agree about Canada. But anyway, if that is the case, why the hell would Tomlin open it up and take chances? Would you if that is the case? Or is the argument that Pickett is a better player than some think?

Was it Pickett or Canada he didn't trust?

 

[diver]

Was it Pickett or Canada he didn't trust?

Both? However, with Canada being fired I guess it would be him.

Idk, we aren't there at practice everyday, either. I know what we see on game day, but think of how much we don't see. Tomlin had a young Qb, 14 year old heads at WR, and OL that hadn't jelled, and a TE who gets hurt a bit. His running backs were solid. With all that, I'd be pretty damn conservative too.

 

[Steelr4evr]

Ya think? Tomlin’s whole philosophy is to play not to lose.

The whole goal is to not have a losing season. Nothing aggressive. Bend,but don't break on defense. Do just enough to get by.


Nothing evolves. Nothing changes. You only see urgency when the non losing season is on the line, then they magically pull it out.

Then he's called this amazing great coach for it. I expect nothing different this next season or the ones that will follow under this administration.

I've been hoping to be proven wrong.

There's only so many times you can hear about chasing championships and not see the effort from players and coaches.

Hell,they're more worried about their ******* stats than making a tackle or block.

I'm to the point if I see the Steelers have a losing ****** team on the schedule, I fully expect them to lose. They're all fat and happy while resting on the accomplishments of championship teams of the past.

 

[ianv2012]

Perhaps. But did it work? They were 7-4 with Pickett. So just in that sense I would argue it did work. Would they have been 7-4 if they took all kinds of chances and turned the ball over? Probably not.

When Tomlin had a Qb he felt he could trust more, he didn't shackle him.

Look, I'm not defending Tomlin. But I said somewhere else there is a little bit of an inconsistency here. On one hand people are arguing that Pickett sucks and Canada sucked. I certainly agree about Canada. But anyway, if that is the case, why the hell would Tomlin open it up and take chances? Would you if that is the case? Or is the argument that Pickett is a better player than some think?

Well I mean look at the game directly after Canada was gone, Kenny was slinging passes over the middle and into areas of the field deemed "dangerous" and led an offense to it's first game over 400yds in 58 games (0 under Canada even with Ben at QB)

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I seem to remember KP8 being "turned loose" in the preseason last year. He looked awesome. And then the 49ers came along and focused on taking away his ability to be that guy, he ran into pressure, got happy feet, etc. I don't know if I would trust the guy that played against the 9ers much either.
That said, KP8 was saddled with Canada, who wasn't going to help bring out the version of Kenny we saw in the preseason either with his playcalling or his sitting in the booth and not communicating with his young QB on the field.
Is it Kenny or Tomlin? Was it Canada?
I think it was all three factors. One has changed. We'll see if the other two change also. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

If your thinking it's Pickett.......I was watching a Caleb Williams film cut. Got me thinking. Wonder if there is film on KP. I watched Is Kenny Pickett the best Qb. In college football. I'm not going to talk about whether he was. But I am going to say that the throws he was being asked to make were very different then on the Steelers. I feel they shackled him to avoid what Tomlin fears most. Turnovers.

While Tomlin is definitely part of the problem I’m sure he’s not coaching KP to

A) flee a clean pocket running himself into pressure and getting himself concussed
B) Lock onto 1 receiver
C) throw wildly inaccurate throws
D) not lead receivers/throw guys open/use anticipation
E) use crap mechanics

I could go on but ya get the point

Many of Kenny’s issues are indeed Kenny issues

 

[SteelerFan448]

They haven't haven't played to many of Pickett's strengths, but Pickett also hasn't executed the basic plays that he needs to make. Production wise, he's a lot closer to Jarvis Jones, Devin Bush, Artie Burns, etc. than he is even to a Najee Harris, Bud Dupree, or Terrell Edmunds.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Perhaps. But did it work? They were 7-4 with Pickett. So just in that sense I would argue it did work. Would they have been 7-4 if they took all kinds of chances and turned the ball over? Probably not.

When Tomlin had a Qb he felt he could trust more, he didn't shackle him.

Look, I'm not defending Tomlin. But I said somewhere else there is a little bit of an inconsistency here. On one hand people are arguing that Pickett sucks and Canada sucked. I certainly agree about Canada. But anyway, if that is the case, why the hell would Tomlin open it up and take chances? Would you if that is the case? Or is the argument that Pickett is a better player than some think?

If not being able to call AUDIBLES until week five isn’t shackling, then we must be on a different page. How about all the come from behind games, when BEN said ****-it and called his own plays………….

I can’t tell you if Kenny has it or not, we should easily know by week 5-7.

There will NOT be a fair QB competition.


Salute the nation

 

[SteelerSask2]

I think the most telling thing of it was when he dropped the dime on Pickens to beat the soon to be AFC Super Bowl Darling with super awesome MVP qb Lamar Jackson. The OC got a look on his face that he had bit a **** sandwich tells me he didn't just want to win. He wanted to win with his plays. And personally I think some of you armchair QBs are making something out of a whole lot of nothing in terms of his mechanics and happy feet.

 

[SteelerSask2]

As far as wildly inaccurate his 62 % completion percentage is same as Justin Fields 61%. Truth here people is you can give Kenny a full shot next season. You can bring in a retread short term like Wilson. Hope that a Fields is better even though there is nothing empirical to say he is. But the only way to get a consensus blue chip draft pick is to go to bottom and even then you can get a Justin Fields, a Mitch Trubisky, the skinny kid Bryce Young in Carolina or 10 other top 5 failures I can name.

 

[SteelerSask2]

Perhaps. But did it work? They were 7-4 with Pickett. So just in that sense I would argue it did work. Would they have been 7-4 if they took all kinds of chances and turned the ball over? Probably not.

When Tomlin had a Qb he felt he could trust more, he didn't shackle him.

Look, I'm not defending Tomlin. But I said somewhere else there is a little bit of an inconsistency here. On one hand people are arguing that Pickett sucks and Canada sucked. I certainly agree about Canada. But anyway, if that is the case, why the hell would Tomlin open it up and take chances? Would you if that is the case? Or is the argument that Pickett is a better player than some think?

Because that mentality wins short term games but never in a million years would let you contend with the big boys. Especially this year if **** face gets an extension. If he does not take shackles off KP and they win groundhog day 10 games and get pumped in first round its just stupid. Play style to win a championship. If KP isn't good enough go to bottom and replace him with top 10 pick instead of top 20.

 

[slashsteel]

I thought he was a mixed bag not enough good, not enough coached up from his bad.

But I have dead horse preached that he was a wait and see. The only thing that has altered from that thinking is I agree with him having competition. If he truly is the better option the OC will say he is. If he isn't they should follow that course as well.

I will say this as I always have. This season falls right in line with the long term thinking of put up or shut up. You have a few years to get your feet wet then it is stand up or sit.

I like Kenny. I welcome better QB play too. Regardless if that comes from him or someone else.

 

[diver]

If not being able to call AUDIBLES until week five isn’t shackling, then we must be on a different page. How about all the come from behind games, when BEN said ****-it and called his own plays………….

I can’t tell you if Kenny has it or not, we should easily know by week 5-7.

There will NOT be a fair QB competition.


Salute the nation

I think audibles is a little overrated. I've said this before, the guys I watch Steeler games with and I used to laugh when you'd see Ben going through the audible motions. He'd be pointing, guys are shifting, announcers saying he's audibling, "BLUE 92" and all that stuff...and...not much. You'd be waiting for this great play and pfft. I think we confuse audibiling sometimes with Ben's great improvisational skills.

It reminds me of another thing I have argued is overrated...halftime adjustments. I had to laugh...NFL films just released something with Peyton Manning about the myth of halftime adjustments. You can probably find it on Youtube.

The last thing is how can you be so sure it will NOT be fair? I know Tomlin is the main variable here, but at the same time I think previously they had a type of QB in mind. That was misguided as we know now, but still. But teams do this all the time. They have a certain idea of what they want out of an OLB or whatever, and they get players that fit what they want. The whole Canada offense experiment blew up in their faces, so we'll see. I gotta think they learned something.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

While Tomlin is definitely part of the problem I’m sure he’s not coaching KP to

A) flee a clean pocket running himself into pressure and getting himself concussed
B) Lock onto 1 receiver
C) throw wildly inaccurate throws
D) not lead receivers/throw guys open/use anticipation
E) use crap mechanics

I could go on but ya get the point

Many of Kenny’s issues are indeed Kenny issues

These are all coachable issues, the question is, will he be provided with that help?
He seems to be a hard worker and dedicated to being better, and appears to be intelligent enough to listen and learn.

Is he good enough to lead this team, who knows, but I suspect, albeit with no proof to back it up, he isn't getting much help in playing to his strengths.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

I think the most telling thing of it was when he dropped the dime on Pickens to beat the soon to be AFC Super Bowl Darling with super awesome MVP qb Lamar Jackson. The OC got a look on his face that he had bit a **** sandwich tells me he didn't just want to win. He wanted to win with his plays. And personally I think some of you armchair QBs are making something out of a whole lot of nothing in terms of his mechanics and happy feet.

Just watch the tape when he is throwing off his back foot or fading
A QB that already has average accuracy with his better mechanics gets very inaccurate

It doesn’t take a genius, if you’ve watched football for more than a couple years and understand a throwing motion you’ll see it…unless you’re in denial/trying to not see the warts

Draft analysts saw it, opposing DCs see it, every expert that breaks down tape sees it and yes, it’s so obvious even MOST arm chair QBs see it. It is quite obvious

 

[SteelerSask2]

Just watch the tape when he is throwing off his back foot or fading
A QB that already has average accuracy with his better mechanics gets very inaccurate

It doesn’t take a genius, if you’ve watched football for more than a couple years and understand a throwing motion you’ll see it…unless you’re in denial/trying to not see the warts

Draft analysts saw it, opposing DCs see it, every expert that breaks down tape sees it and yes, it’s so obvious even MOST arm chair QBs see it. It is quite obvious

He is 62 percent completion. Some people clamoring for Fields at 61 percent. There is a mechanical issue with most incomplete passes. By every QB.

 

[steelhurt]

Kenny will be fine just let Arthur Smith handle him and the offense and keep ******* Tomlin away from the offense.
Arthur will get Kenny rolling and he will be efficient and productive.
Screw Fields! If he was worth a crap the Bears would keep him.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

He is 62 percent completion. Some people clamoring for Fields at 61 percent. There is a mechanical issue with most incomplete passes. By every QB.

Not clamoring for Fields, but your argument makes a case to get him. It also brings to mind some questions about both he and Kenny.
IF Kenny and Fields have comparable completion percentages, and, "IF" most incompletions are mechanical issues; by every QB, then "IF" you can fix the mechanical issues of Fields and Kenny, you should go with the QB who has more "upside". Fields has a better arm, is a better runner, a better athlete overall. So, "IF" you can fix the mechanical issues of both QBs, Fields would offer you more at the QB position than Kenny.

-EXCEPT
1. Fields is more prone to turnovers than Kenny. The question is, is that also because Kenny has been handicapped? Does he throw more INTs if he's "let loose"? I guess we'll see.
2. We're assuming that KP8's mechanical issues (and Fields' should they get him) are fixable. Maybe they aren't. Maybe neither of them can or, is willing to fix their issues.
3. Bailing from the pocket is not a mechanical issue. It's a processing issue. QBs bail when they feel pressure or think there will be pressure. Too often, KP8 has bailed when he "thinks" there is going to be pressure; which, if he had stayed in the pocket, wouldn't have arrived.

I don't know what the Steelers are going to do, or even should do regarding the QB position. We'll see. I do know that I'm tired of the QB play we've seen over the last few years and it needs to get better by whatever means.

 

[bermudasteel]

If your thinking it's Pickett.......I was watching a Caleb Williams film cut. Got me thinking. Wonder if there is film on KP. I watched Is Kenny Pickett the best Qb. In college football. I'm not going to talk about whether he was. But I am going to say that the throws he was being asked to make were very different then on the Steelers. I feel they shackled him to avoid what Tomlin fears most. Turnovers.

I'm on the train that keeps Kenny on the sideline to learn.

This off season has been very revealing (of you look) at some glaring needs of the team. Yes, no coach or team, wants turnovers --- Kenny is equal on both sides. 13 TDs. 13 INTs. Mediocre, bad, not what Berm wants at QB.

I was going to start a thread but hopefully the conversation takes off here.

OC and OT are pressing needs in the draft, but...

With our first pick, if he's there, I'm selecting Penix. We already have the worst QB in the division listed as QB1. None of our immediate competitors care. They're laughing at us.

Thoughts???

 

[bermudasteel]

But I'm seeing a lot of Kenny Pickett hate. Some here some in media. In my opinion he did what he was told to do to win the games. And by the way when that gets beat into you it isn't easy to turn on the gunslinger when you get down 14.

No. Kenny lacks pocket presence. Everyone knows it. Yes, Canada had the dumbest playbook in the history of the NFL, but Mason made plays and threw TDs in the same system.