Not sure who the incumbent is. Ive heard you guys mention his name before in different posts. How much of a difference do you think our defense will be from someone who learned from LeBeau? If we really want change what good will it do to promote our current coaching staff? With all that said its pretty much a guarantee Rex Ryan will be fired. What do you think about going after him as a D Coordinator? He made that Raven defense what it was in the 2000's and did a decent job with the Jets D. The Jets DL has so much talent right now, not sure if he had a play in drafting those guys or not. If we really want change I think we need new blood, new ideas, new concepts...not someone who is getting handed LeBeau's playbook. Thoughts?
If LeBeau retires after this year....
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The OC-in-waiting is LB coach Keith Butler.
What are his guys credentials besides being a LeBeau understudy? I've heard people on here say that the job is his for showing his loyalty. I think this team needs new blood for an O coordinator and D coordinator not people that have been part of the dysfunction for the last 3 years. For the record our LB's are probably our biggest weakness and he is their coach.
possibly
I know it was thought that
but I wonder if when the time comes they just completely clean house
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I'm not ready to hand Butler the reigns. They need to look at all of the possibilities, but unless they upgrade the defensive personnel, I don't expect different results.
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unless Butler drafts players, approves the offensive gameplan, is in charge of clock management, or is responsible for making sure Ben sticks with the program, then he is not part of the dysfunction.
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Wonder where we an come up with someone to do all that.
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Not Butler. I'd be all for hiring sexy rexy. I think he's a good coach.
Its the talent on defense that is the problem. No defensive coordinator could give them the god given ability to make plays.
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Partially true, but when Dick L had players, not long ago, 2010 / 11 / 12, his scheme still had been figured out. Love the guy, BUT, time to go.
PS Keith Butler is in line for DC, NOT OC. Just pointing that out to the tourist(s) that may be droping by.
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I disagree that it's all about the talent. I see too many players in position to make a play and just miss the tackle, or throw their bodies into the ball carrier and hope for the best. This D would not be as bad as it is right now if they would actually wrap up when they tackle. I'm not saying we would be a top 5 D, but it would certainly help out. Just look at Ben Tates first TD run. He bounces off of three would be tacklers, not one person puts their hands out to wrap up.
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The ability to make plays is usually about talent.
Another scenario exists................this is from last years news but is as relevant, if not more, today.
I certainly would not blame Keith Butler if he leaves Pittsburgh to become the defensive coordinator of the Tennessee Titans. The team’s linebackers coach has been strung along far too long behind the ancient Dick LeBeau, and the fact that Butler has been patient enough to wait for a promotion which he might not even receive is a testament to his patience.
Yet if Butler is allowed to interview with Tennessee, then I have a hard time believing that he will stay in Pittsburgh with one season left on his contract. LeBeau has given no intentions that he will leave his post, so it might behoove Butler to take the opportunity to run Tennessee’s defense if he receives it from the Titans’ new head coach Ken Whisenhunt.
If Butler skips town, then Pittsburgh will need to fill his spot on their coaching staff. Luckily for the Steelers’ brass, they will have an experienced and familiar in-house candidate to target in the form of defensive assistant Jerry Olsavsky.
Although the front office could explore outside options to fill a potential vacancy left by Butler, promoting Olsavsky could be the best course of action for the Steelers.
As far as his coaching experience is concerned, Olsavsky coached the linebackers at Youngstown State University for seven seasons (2003-2009) before he joined Pittsburgh’s coaching staff as a defensive assistant in 2010. In addition to his coaching experience with the franchise, Olsavsky was a key reserve linebacker and special teams contributor during his nine-year career with the Steelers (1989-1997).
Continuity will be key for the younger members of Pittsburgh’s linebacker corps, and losing a coach like Butler would be a definite blow to the rebuilding franchise. Hiring an experienced candidate like Olsavsky would be a solid move, and it would not shock me at all to see his name on the list of potential replacements for Butler if the longtime linebackers coach bolts for Tennessee.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...xjviI8jfIL38kRwkLfzk7zA&bvm=bv.77648437,d.aWw
I certainly would not blame Keith Butler if he leaves Pittsburgh to become the defensive coordinator of the Tennessee Titans. The team’s linebackers coach has been strung along far too long behind the ancient Dick LeBeau, and the fact that Butler has been patient enough to wait for a promotion which he might not even receive is a testament to his patience.
Yet if Butler is allowed to interview with Tennessee, then I have a hard time believing that he will stay in Pittsburgh with one season left on his contract. LeBeau has given no intentions that he will leave his post, so it might behoove Butler to take the opportunity to run Tennessee’s defense if he receives it from the Titans’ new head coach Ken Whisenhunt.
If Butler skips town, then Pittsburgh will need to fill his spot on their coaching staff. Luckily for the Steelers’ brass, they will have an experienced and familiar in-house candidate to target in the form of defensive assistant Jerry Olsavsky.
Although the front office could explore outside options to fill a potential vacancy left by Butler, promoting Olsavsky could be the best course of action for the Steelers.
As far as his coaching experience is concerned, Olsavsky coached the linebackers at Youngstown State University for seven seasons (2003-2009) before he joined Pittsburgh’s coaching staff as a defensive assistant in 2010. In addition to his coaching experience with the franchise, Olsavsky was a key reserve linebacker and special teams contributor during his nine-year career with the Steelers (1989-1997).
Continuity will be key for the younger members of Pittsburgh’s linebacker corps, and losing a coach like Butler would be a definite blow to the rebuilding franchise. Hiring an experienced candidate like Olsavsky would be a solid move, and it would not shock me at all to see his name on the list of potential replacements for Butler if the longtime linebackers coach bolts for Tennessee.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...xjviI8jfIL38kRwkLfzk7zA&bvm=bv.77648437,d.aWw
Typo, my bad. Butler has been paid a lot more money than the average LB coach the past few years to ensure that he sticks around to take over from LeBeau.
I agree, I'd take Rex Ryan in a heartbeat if he's fired from the Jets.
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So you don't think that our players have the ability to reach their arms out and tackle? Because that's what my post was saying. We are in position a lot of times, and don't wrap up (mainly the front 7).
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There are two coordinators out there who would make an amazing staff for a new head coach...one has been mentioned here (Rex Ryan) and the other I'm going to mention...and probably get crucified for even mentioning...
but he's a brilliant coordinator.... Charlie Weis
Now, the problem is the Steelers still need a head coach worth a damn. If they can find that guy, bring in these two coordinators, the Steelers COULD be an amazing team moving forward.
but he's a brilliant coordinator.... Charlie Weis
Now, the problem is the Steelers still need a head coach worth a damn. If they can find that guy, bring in these two coordinators, the Steelers COULD be an amazing team moving forward.
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I believe the problem is that Lebeau has been completely neutered in terms of personnel. He's been undercut with Tampa 2 players since Tomlin got here in anticipation of a rollover. Those players don't fit the 3-4 scheme and as a result a slow deterioration of the defense has arisen. Other teams who run a 3-4 have done fine defensively over the same period. The basic formations and packages are not necessarily "used up" but the talent and abilities of the current roster no longer match the needed skillset.
We have undersized defensive linemen as our front three. They can't control the line of scrimmage and that leaves our outside linebackers in a roll to help control the line of scrimmage rather than help rush the quarterback or cover passes as they should. This dramatically weakens the 3-4 and exposes any number of opportunities for the offense. First off, the running back is 3 yards into the defense before he ever sees a defender, usually a middle linebacker. At that point it's entirely possible the running back may even be accompanied by a fullback or another offensive lineman.
If a pass play is occuring, more often than not, our outside linebacker isn't free to rush the QB or cover the flats, he's too busy helping set the edge with a completely ineffective defensive end so the cornerback is on an island, helpfully with safety help unless two receivers are sent out. Then we have single coverage and with our corners, good freakin' luck.
No. The slow watering down of our defensive line talent along with the undersizing of the line backing corps has put the team in a position where it can't provide reliable pressure on the opposing quarterback nor can they reasonably defend against the run without help from the safeties. Without 4 defensive lineman to help shore up the line we're just weaker than stone soup and it's showing. By basically devoting a linebacker to assist the defensive line we're giving up one of our middle defenders and to add insult to injury we now have tiny little linebackers that get barreled over by running backs and can't hold the point of attack when they are challenged. Gone are the days of Levon Kirkland destroying anything that roams over the middle linebacker territory. Now Timmons gets dragged 4 yards.
We are completely manned with hybrid players for two different schemes and it shows. There is no plan, no coordination and the players who HAD enough talent to have worked in either scheme are simply aging to the point that they can't cover the blemishes of the coaches' failure to make a unified reasonable plan. The current state of affairs is the result of a stupid sense of arrogance on the part of Tomlin and probably of Lebeau to assume they could succeed regardless of who they shoved out on the field.
Clearly they were utterly wrong.
We have undersized defensive linemen as our front three. They can't control the line of scrimmage and that leaves our outside linebackers in a roll to help control the line of scrimmage rather than help rush the quarterback or cover passes as they should. This dramatically weakens the 3-4 and exposes any number of opportunities for the offense. First off, the running back is 3 yards into the defense before he ever sees a defender, usually a middle linebacker. At that point it's entirely possible the running back may even be accompanied by a fullback or another offensive lineman.
If a pass play is occuring, more often than not, our outside linebacker isn't free to rush the QB or cover the flats, he's too busy helping set the edge with a completely ineffective defensive end so the cornerback is on an island, helpfully with safety help unless two receivers are sent out. Then we have single coverage and with our corners, good freakin' luck.
No. The slow watering down of our defensive line talent along with the undersizing of the line backing corps has put the team in a position where it can't provide reliable pressure on the opposing quarterback nor can they reasonably defend against the run without help from the safeties. Without 4 defensive lineman to help shore up the line we're just weaker than stone soup and it's showing. By basically devoting a linebacker to assist the defensive line we're giving up one of our middle defenders and to add insult to injury we now have tiny little linebackers that get barreled over by running backs and can't hold the point of attack when they are challenged. Gone are the days of Levon Kirkland destroying anything that roams over the middle linebacker territory. Now Timmons gets dragged 4 yards.
We are completely manned with hybrid players for two different schemes and it shows. There is no plan, no coordination and the players who HAD enough talent to have worked in either scheme are simply aging to the point that they can't cover the blemishes of the coaches' failure to make a unified reasonable plan. The current state of affairs is the result of a stupid sense of arrogance on the part of Tomlin and probably of Lebeau to assume they could succeed regardless of who they shoved out on the field.
Clearly they were utterly wrong.
LeBeau's scheme doesn't work anymore? The Falcons, Cardinals, Ravens, Browns, Packers, Texans, Colts, Chiefs, Saints, Jets, Eagles, Chargers, 49ers, Titans, Redskins and Patriots seem to disagree.
He and Butler have a pretty damn good record when given the talent. The more Tombert players added, the worse it's gotten. They've replaced Smith, Hampton, Keisel, Woodley, Farrior, Foote, Harrison, Taylor and Clark with Thomas, McClendon, Heyward, Worlids, Spence/Shazier, Timmons, Jones, Allen and Mitchell. That's a serious depreciation in talent. Maybe picking Tuitt, Shazier and McCullers means they've finally stopped trying to pound that round peg in.
He and Butler have a pretty damn good record when given the talent. The more Tombert players added, the worse it's gotten. They've replaced Smith, Hampton, Keisel, Woodley, Farrior, Foote, Harrison, Taylor and Clark with Thomas, McClendon, Heyward, Worlids, Spence/Shazier, Timmons, Jones, Allen and Mitchell. That's a serious depreciation in talent. Maybe picking Tuitt, Shazier and McCullers means they've finally stopped trying to pound that round peg in.
I've heard Butler a lot also but I'd look outside the team. If Tomlin is staying, we need as much new blood as possible. How old is Rex these days? He has done some good at DC but I would prefer someone younger and aggressive. Porter hasn't been coaching long enough but his attitude is what we need for the entire defense.
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I said this in another thread...I would be reluctant to hire butler because we may see a clone of what we have now. Plus the LBs are constantly out of position which should be part of Butler's responsibility so not sure how good of a coach he really is..I have no problem with the 3-4 in general, but ours is stale. We are lacking talent, innovation, and aggressiveness. We need a more aggressive coach. The 10-15 yrd cushions have got to go. We do not have to press every play, but no need to play scared. Its like pitch and catch for the other team. I dont care if we give up 10 long pass plays a game I am tired of seeing the same old crap that is not working game after game...Do something DIFFERENT!!
The problem is not the scheme. The problem is we have no one consistently winning one on one match-ups. Hampton demanded a double team or he destroyed the guard or center in front of him. Aaron Smith demanded a double team or he destroyed the guard or tackle in front of him espeacially in the run game. Lloyd, Greene, Porter Harrison, Woodley beat Tackles consistently getting pressure. No one is doing that consistently now..
I don't think they are doing it at all let alone consistently.
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